To bust or not to bust

[zinger]

Does this mean you have evidence and these are the only questions left? Or are you saying that ultimately these are the only ones that matter. It's not clear.

 

If this is all you have left, then you are ready to confront. Sadly, these are the questions that take the rest of your life to answer. Of course, you want these answers more than any other, but ironically you will not get them from her; she will barely know herself. Even #1, or maybe especially, she may not be able to answer fully now.

 

Ok, I assume I needed some sort of flowchart here. I have no more evidence than what I've disclosed here. So the 1st question is to find out what is the relationship and does it constitute infidelity. If it does (at the moment I'm certain it does but perhaps it turns out she was hiring him to paint the house in my favourite colour for my birthday. BTW it's black so she shouldn't have to have so many calls with him anyway) - if it does then I need to know how far did it go (I have some ideas and the most innocent one prevents me from sleeping that night) and then - I need an answer to my last two questions.

 

I hope it does make sense. I'll be ready to confront the moment she lies and I have proof of it.

[SycamoreCircle]

Most likely your wife is unhappy within herself, unreasonably expects you to make her happy or validate her somehoe and when you don't accomplish that unreasonable feat she went looking elsewhere. Don't expect her to understand that and be able to explain that.

Expect instead that she will likely blame you in ways you have never heard from her to justify what she is doing. Don't fall for it as cheaters typically rewrite and exaggerate marital history to jusify to themselves what they are doing.

She may tell you she loves you but no longer feels "in love" with you. That's one of their favorites.

In short, prepare yourself for bull crap when you confront her not truth.

The excitement of cheating whether or not she has actually physically cheated yet is similar to drug addiction. Her brain is flooded with chemicals like a drug high. She wont make sense so don't take seriously the stuff that comes out of her mouth when you confront her. It will likely be nonsense.

Bona fide truth. You will get NO closure from her. Everything out of her mouth will be distorted nonsense. You won't recognize the person you're talking to. That's why I strongly insist you begin to emotionally distance yourself from this thing, starting now. Excavating details burdens you with more peculiarities, inconsistencies and contradictions to piece over when the grieving process begins. It actually retards the grieving process. It gives greater depth to the problem. And you're going to be tasked with trying desperately to sort through that problem, when the dust clears. In reality, no grander picture you have will explain this away. It's attributable to all the reasons the above poster outlined.

 

Additionally, I know you feel you can't confide this to your family. That there's too much difference. Sometimes, by taking a chance on someone who is close to us, who we don't necessarily "connect" with, we can discover new depth and dimension within ourselves and said people. Through the trauma that brought me to LS, I tightened a bond between myself and my sister. Her empathy and grace, which I never would have expected, helped me. Sometimes by making ourselves vulnerable, people around us follow the cue to make themselves vulnerable. It's one of the good things that can come out of a circumstance like yours.

[zinger]

Thanks drifter,

 

 

Not that I'm blaming myself but I'd really like to know the root cause. I assume (for now) that a good wife of all these years, who is mentally stable and according to her own words was and is happy in her marriage doesn't wake up one morning with "I'm going to cheat today" plan. Logically there should be a trigger somewhere?

 

 

Zinger: you ask the rhetorical question "what was wrong in our marriage that forced her to look elsewhere?" - and it makes me sad. Why must we find a way to blame ourselves? The real truth is that NO marriage is perfect and either spouse can grab on to some issue as an excuse to cheat. And the betrayed will try to believe it because the alternative is too disgusting - they did it because it was exciting, fun, and it felt good. It really is this simple, although many will try to complicate it.

 

If you find out that she is sleeping with him and/or other guys, see it for what it is: a selfish, cowardly, hurtful act that only served her ego.

[merrmeade]

I have no more evidence than what I've disclosed here. So the 1st question is to find out what is the relationship and does it constitute infidelity. If it does (at the moment I'm certain it does but perhaps it turns out she was hiring him to paint the house in my favourite colour for my birthday. BTW it's black so she shouldn't have to have so many calls with him anyway) - if it does then I need to know how far did it go (I have some ideas and the most innocent one prevents me from sleeping that night) and then - I need an answer to my last two questions.

 

I hope it does make sense. I'll be ready to confront the moment she lies and I have proof of it.

uh oh, wait a minute, zinger. I, for one, misunderstood post #196 and thought you had evidence you weren't ready to share yet:

At the moment I'd prefer not to be too specific on how and what I have set it up. I hope you understand the rationale. Sufficient to say that I used many methods some of them are redundant and overlapping ...

Now, I realize you were just talking about the system and methods you have in place. And in #217 you were just conjecturing and being (understandably) dramatic.

 

Sorry but I retract what I said in #221 about confronting and agree with the page 13 posters, experienced vets, counseling you to wait, e.g.

Zinger, even beyond being able to have sufficient evidence to withstand her predictable denials, you also have to be informed enough to make a solid decision about what you're going to DO about it. You seem poised for a confrontation as soon as possible. Bear in mind that you need to digest the information and in the early days, you're going to be a wreck. Don't be in a rush to confront. It's tough as hell. I managed to sit on the info for 3 days while I made plans. That's all I made it. I wish I had waited longer. Once you confront, everything is deleted and the lies really begin. It took me 8 months after Dday to find out what I now "think" is the truth.

[zinger]

uh oh, wait a minute, zinger. I, for one, misunderstood post #196 and thought you had evidence you weren't ready to share yet:Now, I realize you were just talking about the system and methods you have in place. And in #217 you were just conjecturing and being (understandably) dramatic.

 

Sorry but I retract what I said in #221 about confronting and agree with the page 13 posters, experienced vets, counseling you to wait, e.g.

 

Correct and perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I did not want to share specific measures I have put in place. The reason is obvious : if I hire 2 emperor penguins in pink Cadillac to follow someone which is semu-legal in the state of Montabraska I don't want the said someone to start looking for emperor penguins or report me to the authorities of Montabraska.

 

All the evidence I have is here. The only problem is it is too easy to repudiate. And I think the common knowledge here is that I should be prepared to hear a lot of lies. As soon as I have my non repudiation I'll confront - and the only thing I'll be really asking for is answers to those 3 questions.

 

I appreciate the opportunity to get this point across as you - and everyone else here - help me more then I could have anticipated.

[fellini]

Not that I'm blaming myself but I'd really like to know the root cause. I assume (for now) that a good wife of all these years, who is mentally stable and according to her own words was and is happy in her marriage doesn't wake up one morning with "I'm going to cheat today" plan. Logically there should be a trigger somewhere?

 

The root cause is the inability to monitor boundaries.

The root cause is a dissatisfaction with herself as she sees it, which she translates (especially when she gets caught) into a dissatisfaction with you. This is the part where the wayward has shifted her "needs" from her spouse to her AP, and then wonders why her husband no longer satisfies "needs" she no longer needs him to satisfy... but try to get a WS to understand that!

The root cause is an opportunity presented itself.

The root cause is she woke up one morning (or one mouse click one afternoon) and felt good about what she saw.

[eric1]

Zinger

 

With all due respect you're not going to get real answers to those questions. The reality is that it would probably take years of therapy to pull them out and even if they were theoretically out you wouod not be getting the truth anyways.

 

IMHO simple is best - sort out the legalities and finances to the best of your abilities and have her served the divorce papers. No questions just "I am divorcing you for infidelity and hope to keep this amicable and fast". Then leave for a few hours so the burden of comforting her doesn't fall on you, let bohemian guy deal with that ****.

Edited May 27, 2015 by eric1
Grammar

[zinger]

Fellini and Eric,

 

It looks like both of you may be right. I really appreciate your input.

 

I set a deadline for myself till the end of the week. One way or another it will be over.

[SycamoreCircle]

Now, do something nice for yourself today!

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

That is where I have to disagree. I need no leverage. The scope of my marriage does not include any competition for my wife's fidelity. If this is what she wants she can have him and the wlwhole Royal Academy of Arts of Bohemia. She just needs to let me know.

I agree with you there, but I got the impression you were open to salvaging things. The fact that this guy likely doesn't have long term potential works to your advantage, if so.

 

If I got the wrong impression, sorry. But if that's the case, and you aren't open to reconciliation (and I don't blame you, I wouldn't be), just get your strategy and pull the trigger.

 

You're at the point of protracted angst, now. It doesn't do you any good. Once you are satisfied that she cheated, the other questions you have are immaterial. Why did she do this? Most likely, it seemed like a good idea at the time. She made her decision and is getting busted. Now you have to make your decision.

 

Good luck. More angst doesn't help you.

[beatcuff]

OP, what is your end game. there is plenty of talk about 'the chase'. while at the moment it is easy to say 'cheat and done', actually taking the final step off the cliff is scary. and what is 'cheat'. maybe you found out before anything physical. hint: the coffee shop date is really odd, that at the very least did not end in a hug.

 

i would prefer you talk with her sooner, maybe you can stop what might happen rather than confirm what you suspect.

 

and instead of falling for the 'A' trap (its all about the affair), in which case its maybe lies or half-truths: it will be all consuming AND cloud the real issues.

 

rather concentrate on the why: what lead her to this point. maybe your idea of how happy your marriage was is not hers. i don't know. and neither do you. there is only one person that can answer that.

 

your tale/chase is great for the board but its your life not a movie. good luck.

[whichwayisup]

- what was wrong in our marriage that forced her to look elsewher?

And very important, what is broken inside of her. She chose this, for whatever reason(s) and it's NOT your fault.

[just-moi]

The root cause is the inability to monitor boundaries.

The root cause is a dissatisfaction with herself as she sees it, which she translates (especially when she gets caught) into a dissatisfaction with you. This is the part where the wayward has shifted her "needs" from her spouse to her AP, and then wonders why her husband no longer satisfies "needs" she no longer needs him to satisfy... but try to get a WS to understand that!

The root cause is an opportunity presented itself.

The root cause is she woke up one morning (or one mouse click one afternoon) and felt good about what she saw.

 

I am so sorry for your situation Zinger, I understand the hurt & the questions, but not everyone else saying 'it's only about HER boundaries & choices' Not always the case

 

As both a BS 2x (last while pregnant) & a WS years later, I'm going to totally disagree with this post above...

 

I never wanted anything more than a good, faithful relationship where needs are communicated & met by both partners.

 

My root cause was nothing to do with 'bad boundaries', more to do with my need of at least *some* affection, which I communicated MANY times, with no change. I want my man to hold my hand when we walk, cuddle me sometimes, kiss me... I want some intimacy. In early years there was the usual 'honeymoon' of that...then nothing physical/emotional. He showed romance in other ways (presents). Never physical or time.

 

In the end I put it all down to being too different in our core needs...

 

He was/is a workaholic, When I'd (rarely) see him, he was tired, cranky & yelling when he came home

 

He NEVER liked being touched in his sleep, whereas I love spooning, or at the very least, holding hands, touching, or twining feet to sleep. He even spent many nights after his late-night club DJ job falling asleep on the lounge... that really upset me

 

I let him know my thoughts, feelings & needs so many times over our 14 years, but he obviously didn't take it seriously or change anything until I stepped out to find what I needed & he caught me....

 

He took me out for dinner solo once (first time in about 10 years) held my hand walking there... by that time I was already disconnected after asking for sooooo long....

 

I personally think for the 'normal' woman who just wants a good mutual & contented love life, there is ALWAYS a reason for infidelity

[BetrayedH]

There are five stages of grief. Acceptance is the last.

 

You plan on asking those three questions, but as others have said, her answers won't make much sense. They're likely to be filled with blameshifting and rationalizations that don't hold up to any kind of analysis. The fact is, her decisions aren't rational. They're emotional. She wants something more than that to which she'd entitled and she's decided to go get it anyway. If confronted, her first attempts will likely be to lie, deny, and minimize. If that doesn't work, she may then try to gaslight you into thinking that you don't know what you think you know. If that doesn't work, she'll probably try to blameshift the affair onto you (becausr you failed to meet some "need" of hers). And if you don't take the blame, you'll hear a bunch of crazy rationalizations she made for herself about why it was ok.

 

The reality is that you may not understand the reasons behind her affair for years. And the real reasons behind it will have little or nothing to do with what she says to you. In fact, I'd suggest that you will eventually understand her affair better than she will.

 

As others have wisely said, her affair (assuming that she'd engaged in one), has NOTHING to do with you. It has everything to do with HER. You could have been the perfect husband and had a perfect marriage, but she felt entitled to "more." She may have such a 'need' for external validation that no one man would be enough, and she'd latch on to any new man that made her feel special. And even if there were marital problems (which is pretty much a constant, right?) she may just be so conflict-avoidant that she never addressed them. Is that your fault?

 

Affairs aren't logical; they don't fix anything. They aren't ethical; it's unethical to keep your spouse committed to the marriage while you play single. They aren't healthy; it's like dropping a nuke on the marriage. And I bet even your wife would say it goes against her personal beliefs. So, it's immoral for her. So why would your wife make such an illogical, unethical, destructive, and immoral choice? It has nothing to do with you. It's because something is broken within her. Infidelity is not a marital problem; it's a personal one. A lot of it (the excessive need for external validation, the severe conflict avoidance, or the overdeveloed sense of entitlement) probably goes back to her childhood and family of origin.

 

IF she chooses to undertake it, it'd take months (or more likely, years) of counseling for her to really understand her personal "why." Do you really think you're going to understand it anytime soon? That's assuming that you'd get any kind of honesty or introspection from her.

 

You're likely to be like the rest of us, desperately wanting to understand WTF happened. And you'll be trying to digest lies, trickle truths, and crazy rationalizations and turn them into something that makes sense. And it won't. And you'll have to accept that this has happened to you anyway. Sadly, you're also likely to be willing to take some of the blame for this. Already, you're prepared to blame the marriage. That's because your world is upside down. You're bleeding severely and just want the bleeding to stop. And it's all out of your control. Admitting "your part" in things makes you feel like you can regain some sense of control, that you can stop the bleeding. What you'll need to accept is that you're not in control of the knife in your back.

 

Instead of looking to your wife for answers, I'd suggest you spend some serious time thinking about how you will respond.

 

If your wife is having an affair, she is lying to you. She's lying straight to your face. Is that the kind of partner in life that you should have? She's the one person in life that you should be able to count on to always have your back. But she's betraying that contract. She's violating the most foundational part of the deal and keeping you committed to your end. And if she's still engaged in the affair, she's obviously not remorseful or asking forgiveness. She clearly doesn't respect you if she's doing all that. I'd say that's all pretty unacceptable behavior. So, what's a healthy response to that? What actions will you take?

 

I think a healthy response is to demonstrate that you will not accept unacceptable behavior. And you take clear actions to show exactly that. I genuinely believe that the best confrontation to a wayward spouse is done with divorce papers. Don't seek worded answers from her. You know what you need to know from her actions. And you establish a healthy boundary for yourself by saying that you won't accept those actions from your partner in life.

 

Now does that mean that reconciliation is impossible? No. I'm actually a fan of reconciliation. But it doesn't come as a result of demonstrating your willingness to be a doormat. It comes as a result of you demonstrating your unwillingness to be a doormat. And then IF your wife demonstrates sufficient actions to demonstrate true remorse, to seek what is broken within her, to meet your conditions for making an attempt at reconciling, THEN you can consider halting the divorce proceedings. That shows both strength and a healthy respect for yourself.

 

Again, I'd encourage you to have patience in the gathering of real information so you can make a truly informed decision about what's happened here. And in the meantime, consider what is a healthy response to the possible scenarios. Do your best to make decisions with your head, not your emotions. And take a stand that respects you. You cannot control her. You can only control yourself. So think long and hard about what a healthy response looks like for you. And find the courage to do it.

[BetrayedH]

I am so sorry for your situation Zinger, I understand the hurt & the questions, but not everyone else saying 'it's only about HER boundaries & choices' Not always the case

 

As both a BS 2x (last while pregnant) & a WS years later, I'm going to totally disagree with this post above...

 

I never wanted anything more than a good, faithful relationship where needs are communicated & met by both partners.

 

My root cause was nothing to do with 'bad boundaries', more to do with my need of at least *some* affection, which I communicated MANY times, with no change. I want my man to hold my hand when we walk, cuddle me sometimes, kiss me... I want some intimacy. In early years there was the usual 'honeymoon' of that...then nothing physical/emotional. He showed romance in other ways (presents). Never physical or time.

 

In the end I put it all down to being too different in our core needs...

 

He was/is a workaholic, When I'd (rarely) see him, he was tired, cranky & yelling when he came home

 

He NEVER liked being touched in his sleep, whereas I love spooning, or at the very least, holding hands, touching, or twining feet to sleep. He even spent many nights after his late-night club DJ job falling asleep on the lounge... that really upset me

 

I let him know my thoughts, feelings & needs so many times over our 14 years, but he obviously didn't take it seriously or change anything until I stepped out to find what I needed & he caught me....

 

He took me out for dinner solo once (first time in about 10 years) held my hand walking there... by that time I was already disconnected after asking for sooooo long....

 

I personally think for the 'normal' woman who just wants a good mutual & contented love life, there is ALWAYS a reason for infidelity

 

Your logical, healthy, ethical, and moral choices were to either fix the marriage or leave it. Your choice to have an affair is on you and you alone.

[fellini]

I'm sorry for your situation as well just-moi, but my comments were directed at the OP based on his claim about his marriage being very good, 15 years no infidelity, etc etc.

 

Had he told me she was diagnosed NPD or a Nymphomaniac, I wouldn't have written what I had.

 

And of course if you post your story and ask for advice, I would post something else entirely.

 

His wife's infidelity seems to be quite classic.

 

I am so sorry for your situation Zinger, I understand the hurt & the questions, but not everyone else saying 'it's only about HER boundaries & choices' Not always the case

 

As both a BS 2x (last while pregnant) & a WS years later, I'm going to totally disagree with this post above...

 

I never wanted anything more than a good, faithful relationship where needs are communicated & met by both partners.

 

My root cause was nothing to do with 'bad boundaries', more to do with my need of at least *some* affection, which I communicated MANY times, with no change. I want my man to hold my hand when we walk, cuddle me sometimes, kiss me... I want some intimacy. In early years there was the usual 'honeymoon' of that...then nothing physical/emotional. He showed romance in other ways (presents). Never physical or time.

 

In the end I put it all down to being too different in our core needs...

 

He was/is a workaholic, When I'd (rarely) see him, he was tired, cranky & yelling when he came home

 

He NEVER liked being touched in his sleep, whereas I love spooning, or at the very least, holding hands, touching, or twining feet to sleep. He even spent many nights after his late-night club DJ job falling asleep on the lounge... that really upset me

 

I let him know my thoughts, feelings & needs so many times over our 14 years, but he obviously didn't take it seriously or change anything until I stepped out to find what I needed & he caught me....

 

He took me out for dinner solo once (first time in about 10 years) held my hand walking there... by that time I was already disconnected after asking for sooooo long....

 

I personally think for the 'normal' woman who just wants a good mutual & contented love life, there is ALWAYS a reason for infidelity

[Buckeye2]

I'd really like to know the root cause. I assume (for now) that a good wife of all these years, who is mentally stable and according to her own words was and is happy in her marriage doesn't wake up one morning with "I'm going to cheat today" plan. Logically there should be a trigger somewhere?

 

I’ve read about multiple cases where a happily married woman cheats and came up with a profile.

 

She loves her husband and has every intention of growing old with him. One woman described it as going to a great restaurant for years and seeing many great dishes. Of course you always order your favorite dish because it’s your favorite. Then you find out that the restaurant is going to close and you will never have the opportunity to sample those dishes.

 

Seeing other men was like completing a bucket list. Her plan is to sit next to her husband in a rocking chair with great memories and no regrets.

 

Triggers: Age (around 40 is most common) and an “empty nest” (time on her hands) are factors. Also few sexual partners before marriage plays a role. Reconnecting with a high school acquaintance (not necessarily an old boyfriend) also is common.

About 4 months ago we touched the subject. The context was based on the situation of the couple we have seen socially couple of times:

 

W: do you know A was caught cheating on B?

 

Me: (causally as I was busy doing something else). Well that's a shame, how is their divorce going?

 

W: Why are you assuming they are divorcing?

 

Me: (slightly surprised) How else should a man react to this?

 

W: So if I was cheating you wouldn't give me a second chance?

 

Me: You know I can forgive you almost anything - but not this.

 

W: Changes the topic

 

As demonstrated above women (as a group) tend to be more upset about the emotional aspect of an affair and men are more upset by the physical.

 

I think this helps these women rationalize their behavior because in their mind the emotional relationship with their husband was not at risk. So in the things that matter most to them they were never unfaithful. I also think that they don’t get on a gut level why their husband is so upset about the physical part.

 

They think that they will never to be caught because they're careful and thier husband is so trusting. They also expect to be ultimately forgiven (after some fireworks) if they are caught because their relationship and family life are so good. They freak out when they realize that their husband might actually divorce them. They panic because their life plan was “till death do us part.”

Edited May 27, 2015 by Buckeye2

[understand50]

Do not bag on women only, men do this as well. The idea, that my partner will forgive in the end and it is not a "big" deal. When confronted, they are mortified, with the consequences.

 

 

I’ve read about multiple cases where a happily married woman cheats and came up with a profile.

 

 

I think this helps these women rationalize their behavior because in their mind the emotional relationship with their husband was not at risk. So in the things that matter most to them they were never unfaithful. I also think that they don’t get on a gut level why their husband is so upset about the physical part.

 

They think that they will never to be caught because they're careful and thier husband is so trusting. They also expect to be ultimately forgiven (after some fireworks) if they are caught because their relationship and family life are so good. They freak out when they realize that their husband might actually divorce them. They panic because their life plan was “till death do us part.”

 

685687689

[66Charger]

Those attempting to rationalise or justify affairs would not do so if it was happening against them.

I have a feeling that you caught this in its infancy, but the consequences should be the same. If this turns out dark, go with your heart, but leave open the possibility of dating her again AFTER divorce. If its a full blown affair, I withdraw my post. Praying for you brother.

[VeryBrokenMan]

There are five stages of grief. Acceptance is the last.

 

You plan on asking those three questions, but as others have said, her answers won't make much sense. They're likely to be filled with blameshifting and rationalizations that don't hold up to any kind of analysis. The fact is, her decisions aren't rational. They're emotional. She wants something more than that to which she'd entitled and she's decided to go get it anyway. If confronted, her first attempts will likely be to lie, deny, and minimize. If that doesn't work, she may then try to gaslight you into thinking that you don't know what you think you know. If that doesn't work, she'll probably try to blameshift the affair onto you (becausr you failed to meet some "need" of hers). And if you don't take the blame, you'll hear a bunch of crazy rationalizations she made for herself about why it was ok.

 

The reality is that you may not understand the reasons behind her affair for years. And the real reasons behind it will have little or nothing to do with what she says to you. In fact, I'd suggest that you will eventually understand her affair better than she will.

 

As others have wisely said, her affair (assuming that she'd engaged in one), has NOTHING to do with you. It has everything to do with HER. You could have been the perfect husband and had a perfect marriage, but she felt entitled to "more." She may have such a 'need' for external validation that no one man would be enough, and she'd latch on to any new man that made her feel special. And even if there were marital problems (which is pretty much a constant, right?) she may just be so conflict-avoidant that she never addressed them. Is that your fault?

 

Affairs aren't logical; they don't fix anything. They aren't ethical; it's unethical to keep your spouse committed to the marriage while you play single. They aren't healthy; it's like dropping a nuke on the marriage. And I bet even your wife would say it goes against her personal beliefs. So, it's immoral for her. So why would your wife make such an illogical, unethical, destructive, and immoral choice? It has nothing to do with you. It's because something is broken within her. Infidelity is not a marital problem; it's a personal one. A lot of it (the excessive need for external validation, the severe conflict avoidance, or the overdeveloed sense of entitlement) probably goes back to her childhood and family of origin.

 

IF she chooses to undertake it, it'd take months (or more likely, years) of counseling for her to really understand her personal "why." Do you really think you're going to understand it anytime soon? That's assuming that you'd get any kind of honesty or introspection from her.

 

You're likely to be like the rest of us, desperately wanting to understand WTF happened. And you'll be trying to digest lies, trickle truths, and crazy rationalizations and turn them into something that makes sense. And it won't. And you'll have to accept that this has happened to you anyway. Sadly, you're also likely to be willing to take some of the blame for this. Already, you're prepared to blame the marriage. That's because your world is upside down. You're bleeding severely and just want the bleeding to stop. And it's all out of your control. Admitting "your part" in things makes you feel like you can regain some sense of control, that you can stop the bleeding. What you'll need to accept is that you're not in control of the knife in your back.

 

Instead of looking to your wife for answers, I'd suggest you spend some serious time thinking about how you will respond.

 

If your wife is having an affair, she is lying to you. She's lying straight to your face. Is that the kind of partner in life that you should have? She's the one person in life that you should be able to count on to always have your back. But she's betraying that contract. She's violating the most foundational part of the deal and keeping you committed to your end. And if she's still engaged in the affair, she's obviously not remorseful or asking forgiveness. She clearly doesn't respect you if she's doing all that. I'd say that's all pretty unacceptable behavior. So, what's a healthy response to that? What actions will you take?

 

I think a healthy response is to demonstrate that you will not accept unacceptable behavior. And you take clear actions to show exactly that. I genuinely believe that the best confrontation to a wayward spouse is done with divorce papers. Don't seek worded answers from her. You know what you need to know from her actions. And you establish a healthy boundary for yourself by saying that you won't accept those actions from your partner in life.

 

Now does that mean that reconciliation is impossible? No. I'm actually a fan of reconciliation. But it doesn't come as a result of demonstrating your willingness to be a doormat. It comes as a result of you demonstrating your unwillingness to be a doormat. And then IF your wife demonstrates sufficient actions to demonstrate true remorse, to seek what is broken within her, to meet your conditions for making an attempt at reconciling, THEN you can consider halting the divorce proceedings. That shows both strength and a healthy respect for yourself.

 

Again, I'd encourage you to have patience in the gathering of real information so you can make a truly informed decision about what's happened here. And in the meantime, consider what is a healthy response to the possible scenarios. Do your best to make decisions with your head, not your emotions. And take a stand that respects you. You cannot control her. You can only control yourself. So think long and hard about what a healthy response looks like for you. And find the courage to do it.

 

This post should be stickyed someplace. All very sound advise that anyone in the first stages of finding out about infidelity should read over and over.

[oldshirt]

There are five stages of grief. Acceptance is the last.

 

You plan on asking those three questions, but as others have said, her answers won't make much sense. They're likely to be filled with blameshifting and rationalizations that don't hold up to any kind of analysis. The fact is, her decisions aren't rational. They're emotional. She wants something more than that to which she'd entitled and she's decided to go get it anyway. If confronted, her first attempts will likely be to lie, deny, and minimize. If that doesn't work, she may then try to gaslight you into thinking that you don't know what you think you know. If that doesn't work, she'll probably try to blameshift the affair onto you (becausr you failed to meet some "need" of hers). And if you don't take the blame, you'll hear a bunch of crazy rationalizations she made for herself about why it was ok.

 

The reality is that you may not understand the reasons behind her affair for years. And the real reasons behind it will have little or nothing to do with what she says to you. In fact, I'd suggest that you will eventually understand her affair better than she will.

 

As others have wisely said, her affair (assuming that she'd engaged in one), has NOTHING to do with you. It has everything to do with HER. You could have been the perfect husband and had a perfect marriage, but she felt entitled to "more." She may have such a 'need' for external validation that no one man would be enough, and she'd latch on to any new man that made her feel special. And even if there were marital problems (which is pretty much a constant, right?) she may just be so conflict-avoidant that she never addressed them. Is that your fault?

 

Affairs aren't logical; they don't fix anything. They aren't ethical; it's unethical to keep your spouse committed to the marriage while you play single. They aren't healthy; it's like dropping a nuke on the marriage. And I bet even your wife would say it goes against her personal beliefs. So, it's immoral for her. So why would your wife make such an illogical, unethical, destructive, and immoral choice? It has nothing to do with you. It's because something is broken within her. Infidelity is not a marital problem; it's a personal one. A lot of it (the excessive need for external validation, the severe conflict avoidance, or the overdeveloed sense of entitlement) probably goes back to her childhood and family of origin.

 

IF she chooses to undertake it, it'd take months (or more likely, years) of counseling for her to really understand her personal "why." Do you really think you're going to understand it anytime soon? That's assuming that you'd get any kind of honesty or introspection from her.

 

You're likely to be like the rest of us, desperately wanting to understand WTF happened. And you'll be trying to digest lies, trickle truths, and crazy rationalizations and turn them into something that makes sense. And it won't. And you'll have to accept that this has happened to you anyway. Sadly, you're also likely to be willing to take some of the blame for this. Already, you're prepared to blame the marriage. That's because your world is upside down. You're bleeding severely and just want the bleeding to stop. And it's all out of your control. Admitting "your part" in things makes you feel like you can regain some sense of control, that you can stop the bleeding. What you'll need to accept is that you're not in control of the knife in your back.

 

Instead of looking to your wife for answers, I'd suggest you spend some serious time thinking about how you will respond.

 

If your wife is having an affair, she is lying to you. She's lying straight to your face. Is that the kind of partner in life that you should have? She's the one person in life that you should be able to count on to always have your back. But she's betraying that contract. She's violating the most foundational part of the deal and keeping you committed to your end. And if she's still engaged in the affair, she's obviously not remorseful or asking forgiveness. She clearly doesn't respect you if she's doing all that. I'd say that's all pretty unacceptable behavior. So, what's a healthy response to that? What actions will you take?

 

I think a healthy response is to demonstrate that you will not accept unacceptable behavior. And you take clear actions to show exactly that. I genuinely believe that the best confrontation to a wayward spouse is done with divorce papers. Don't seek worded answers from her. You know what you need to know from her actions. And you establish a healthy boundary for yourself by saying that you won't accept those actions from your partner in life.

 

Now does that mean that reconciliation is impossible? No. I'm actually a fan of reconciliation. But it doesn't come as a result of demonstrating your willingness to be a doormat. It comes as a result of you demonstrating your unwillingness to be a doormat. And then IF your wife demonstrates sufficient actions to demonstrate true remorse, to seek what is broken within her, to meet your conditions for making an attempt at reconciling, THEN you can consider halting the divorce proceedings. That shows both strength and a healthy respect for yourself.

 

Again, I'd encourage you to have patience in the gathering of real information so you can make a truly informed decision about what's happened here. And in the meantime, consider what is a healthy response to the possible scenarios. Do your best to make decisions with your head, not your emotions. And take a stand that respects you. You cannot control her. You can only control yourself. So think long and hard about what a healthy response looks like for you. And find the courage to do it.

 

The paragraphs about the only healthy response is to not accept unacceptable behavior and to not be a doormat and that WSs need to earn reconciliation should be etched into a mountain and should be mandatory reading for all BSs.

[SycamoreCircle]

There are five stages of grief. Acceptance is the last.

 

You plan on asking those three questions, but as others have said, her answers won't make much sense. They're likely to be filled with blameshifting and rationalizations that don't hold up to any kind of analysis. The fact is, her decisions aren't rational. They're emotional. She wants something more than that to which she'd entitled and she's decided to go get it anyway. If confronted, her first attempts will likely be to lie, deny, and minimize. If that doesn't work, she may then try to gaslight you into thinking that you don't know what you think you know. If that doesn't work, she'll probably try to blameshift the affair onto you (becausr you failed to meet some "need" of hers). And if you don't take the blame, you'll hear a bunch of crazy rationalizations she made for herself about why it was ok.

 

The reality is that you may not understand the reasons behind her affair for years. And the real reasons behind it will have little or nothing to do with what she says to you. In fact, I'd suggest that you will eventually understand her affair better than she will.

 

As others have wisely said, her affair (assuming that she'd engaged in one), has NOTHING to do with you. It has everything to do with HER. You could have been the perfect husband and had a perfect marriage, but she felt entitled to "more." She may have such a 'need' for external validation that no one man would be enough, and she'd latch on to any new man that made her feel special. And even if there were marital problems (which is pretty much a constant, right?) she may just be so conflict-avoidant that she never addressed them. Is that your fault?

 

Affairs aren't logical; they don't fix anything. They aren't ethical; it's unethical to keep your spouse committed to the marriage while you play single. They aren't healthy; it's like dropping a nuke on the marriage. And I bet even your wife would say it goes against her personal beliefs. So, it's immoral for her. So why would your wife make such an illogical, unethical, destructive, and immoral choice? It has nothing to do with you. It's because something is broken within her. Infidelity is not a marital problem; it's a personal one. A lot of it (the excessive need for external validation, the severe conflict avoidance, or the overdeveloed sense of entitlement) probably goes back to her childhood and family of origin.

 

IF she chooses to undertake it, it'd take months (or more likely, years) of counseling for her to really understand her personal "why." Do you really think you're going to understand it anytime soon? That's assuming that you'd get any kind of honesty or introspection from her.

 

You're likely to be like the rest of us, desperately wanting to understand WTF happened. And you'll be trying to digest lies, trickle truths, and crazy rationalizations and turn them into something that makes sense. And it won't. And you'll have to accept that this has happened to you anyway. Sadly, you're also likely to be willing to take some of the blame for this. Already, you're prepared to blame the marriage. That's because your world is upside down. You're bleeding severely and just want the bleeding to stop. And it's all out of your control. Admitting "your part" in things makes you feel like you can regain some sense of control, that you can stop the bleeding. What you'll need to accept is that you're not in control of the knife in your back.

 

Instead of looking to your wife for answers, I'd suggest you spend some serious time thinking about how you will respond.

 

If your wife is having an affair, she is lying to you. She's lying straight to your face. Is that the kind of partner in life that you should have? She's the one person in life that you should be able to count on to always have your back. But she's betraying that contract. She's violating the most foundational part of the deal and keeping you committed to your end. And if she's still engaged in the affair, she's obviously not remorseful or asking forgiveness. She clearly doesn't respect you if she's doing all that. I'd say that's all pretty unacceptable behavior. So, what's a healthy response to that? What actions will you take?

 

I think a healthy response is to demonstrate that you will not accept unacceptable behavior. And you take clear actions to show exactly that. I genuinely believe that the best confrontation to a wayward spouse is done with divorce papers. Don't seek worded answers from her. You know what you need to know from her actions. And you establish a healthy boundary for yourself by saying that you won't accept those actions from your partner in life.

 

Now does that mean that reconciliation is impossible? No. I'm actually a fan of reconciliation. But it doesn't come as a result of demonstrating your willingness to be a doormat. It comes as a result of you demonstrating your unwillingness to be a doormat. And then IF your wife demonstrates sufficient actions to demonstrate true remorse, to seek what is broken within her, to meet your conditions for making an attempt at reconciling, THEN you can consider halting the divorce proceedings. That shows both strength and a healthy respect for yourself.

 

Again, I'd encourage you to have patience in the gathering of real information so you can make a truly informed decision about what's happened here. And in the meantime, consider what is a healthy response to the possible scenarios. Do your best to make decisions with your head, not your emotions. And take a stand that respects you. You cannot control her. You can only control yourself. So think long and hard about what a healthy response looks like for you. And find the courage to do it.

Dang, BetrayedH...you killed it.

[drifter777]

Thanks drifter,

 

 

Not that I'm blaming myself but I'd really like to know the root cause. I assume (for now) that a good wife of all these years, who is mentally stable and according to her own words was and is happy in her marriage doesn't wake up one morning with "I'm going to cheat today" plan. Logically there should be a trigger somewhere?

Yes, of course this is all true. The problem right now is that your thinking is clouded by the fear and pain you are feeling as you wait to discover the truth - and that truth looks like it's not going to be good. So I understand that you want to stay in your head for the time being. You are looking at the various outcomes of her strange behavior and this "relationship" with another man and trying to map out your reaction. Let me assure you of something right now: you will not react how you think you will. You cannot prepare yourself for the worst case if you find out she's been physical with this guy or someone else. It will be like someone hit you in the head with a hammer - you will be stunned and in a state of emotional shock. Its very important that you do NOT retreat into denial at that point because that will take you to a place that makes your recovery more difficult. Allow yourself to feel all of the strong emotions that come over you and seek professional help ASAP. Physically remove yourself from your wife's presence meaning either she leaves or you leave. Take at least a week or two apart from her so you can allow the full weight of this to hit you. As I said above, you will need someone in your corner who can help you work through this whole mess so start working with a counselor during this time of crisis.

 

You will not believe much of what you hear from other BH's because it's too scary. Even with hard evidence in hand you will desperately want to ignore much of it and find good excuses for your wife. That's where you will likely get back into your head and start examining all the things that you COULD have done to prevent her from straying. It's easier to accept your own guilt in all of this than accept that she just plain cheated on you. This is not the woman you married - it can't be so what did you do to make her change? These are like stages of mourning and it will take you X amount of time to work through them. I'll repeat, a counselor will be able to help you get through this mourning phase and help you decide the best path for your personal recovery.

[Sandy43]

I am so sorry for what you are going through Zinger, I have been in your shoes and it is not a fun place to be. I did my own investigating and got the proof a couple of weeks later. The best advice I can give you is get a hold of that cell phone, or if you suspect that she has another cell then you can download an app that will tell you if there are any other devices connected to your wifi. I'm sure your investigator will know about this. If I had to do it over again I would have just put the voice activated recorder in his car, it would have only taken 1 day instead of weeks.

There are many sites that will give you advice on how to deal with things once the truth is out, I never thought that far ahead had tunnel vision and was only concerned with finding out the truth that I never considered how it would affect me when I did.

 

Good Luck to you.

[autumnnight]

I know there is a marriage site that lists all sorts of ways you can gather evidence on your own. I don't know if we can link here, but if you google investigating affairs you can probably find it. They have resources concerning computers and VAR's and pretty much any kind of phone.