To bust or not to bust

[eric1]

I believe that a WIS is a person who spends a lot of money on watches. Typically with the inflection that this person is purchasing the watches as an expert but really is just buying them because they really, really like watches.

 

I could be wrong. I own a few nice watches and from kicking around the forums every few months I think that this is what it means.

[zinger]

Noted and taken onboard, but let me please explain my angle on this. I'll use the following as an example:

 

Let's say someone flicks a magic wand and makes FWW completely remorseful and ready and resolute to literally do whatever it takes to get my forgiveness. Even most odd and unusual things one can imagine. Lets say she runs out of ideas and posts here to get a list of these things.

 

At the moment I cannot simply imagine what can be adviced to her to do to repair the damage. Not even remotely.

 

 

This is actually an important fact. The truth is you DON'T know what can be done to fix this at that time, if anything. It may take months before the dust has cleared enough and you are able to peel back all the layers and be able to know for sure what course is the best to take.

 

 

What those of us that have been on here for any length of time have seen time and time again though is that there are basically two options where people retain their dignity and their self of self-worth and go on to live good lives post Dday.

 

 

One is where they draw a strong line in the sand, do "The 180" to the letter and hold their WS accountable for their actions and don't allow them to manipulate or gas light or rugsweep or plead or negotiate their way into anything less than full disclosure and commit to intensive therapy and counseling and commit to 100% transparency and life-long complete NC with AP (and of course don't pick up any other APs along the way) SOME of those couples survive intact and have happy and healthy marriages a couple years down the road after a ton of hard work and intensive therapy.

 

 

(and this is all assuming that the WS even wants to reconcile and remain in the marriage. most say they do after the initial shock after getting busted, but many of those throw in the towel once they learn how much hard work they really have to do)

 

 

 

 

 

 

The other people that come out OK in the end are the ones that just walk away and start a whole new life for themselves leaving the WS behind.

 

 

Those are the two groups that have had success. The ones that fall somewhere in between all get eaten alive and ground through the mud and kicked in the teeth and cheated on and mistreated again repeatedly and come out of it destroyed and completely humiliated and broken.

 

 

Whether you toss her out and divorce immediately or whether you try to reconcile, the key to success is strength and determination and not taking an ounce of crap off of anybody.

 

 

It may take months before you have a clear idea of what to do. My advice is keep all options open at that moment and make no agreements to anything at this point until all the facts are in and you have a grasp of where things stand.

 

 

Start making preparations to divorce and move on and have that be a very valid option and be able to do so if that is what you need to do.

 

 

But keep an open mind that reconciliation may also be on the table but that will depend heavily on how honest she is and how transparent she is and how committed she is to fixing the damage and distrust that she has done. it's ok to consider reconciliation but you have to have the ax in your hand at all times and be willing to make it come down at any moment if she balks or tries to pull a fast one.

[zinger]

Thanks, I'm OK. Somehow groggy (didn't have much sleep). Nothing I can't handle.

 

Yes. Phone calls, voicemail and texts. Also from her family so she must've told them (what exactly is to be confirmed).

 

Watch Idiot Savant.

And as a personal rant, I *hate* abbreviations, including the ones used here on LoveShack; BS, AP, EA, FWW etc...

 

 

How are YOU doing today, Zinger? I am assuming your wife has been trying to get in touch with you?

[zinger]

While she is still remorseful (at getting caught) and still begging you to forgive her, schedule a polygraph. Trust me, she won't stay that way. Eventually, you'll become her adversary.

 

OK, so your view is all these tears and begging are mostly caused by this huge disruption to her lifestyle and perhaps a (temporarily) interruption to their rendezvous, not nesessary she deceived me? That sounds very plausible to me. Although I do not see a point for her to treat me as adversary, she is free to go and be with him at any time. I told her that clearly.

 

I guess I need to check those texts, perhaps there maybe a "leaving you for him, lets get divorced ASAP" one.

[fellini]

To know whether she is having sex with him is vital to any decision on reconciliation. He jumped the gun in that he is now dependent on his detective ability to find out the truth. I understand why he did.it - his own fear of discovering more details got the better of him. Unwittingly, he made his recovery harder.

 

NO. He cannot sit back and wait for a hookup at some future date to prove something happened in the past. Let's say they kissed. He confirms it. She says it's the first kiss. Let's say they book a hotel, she'll say it is their first. Classic cheaters only confessing to what they already know you know.

 

She is in lie mode. The truth is going to come out only when she learns to stop, if he waits around that long to get there.

 

He has weeks of lies to come even if he chooses to reconcile.

[zinger]

Exactly however the burden of proof is on her now. That is if she ever bothers (I think the other poster, Turnera, may be correct).

 

Not dissimilar to the "forgiveness" theme, I'm not sure if there is any way to convince me it was platonic only. Even a medical certificate confirming his ED and impotence won't cut it.

 

 

To know whether she is having sex with him is vital to any decision on reconciliation. He jumped the gun in that he is now dependent on his detective ability to find out the truth. I understand why he did.it - his own fear of discovering more details got the better of him. Unwittingly, he made his recovery harder.

[eric1]

One doesn't go through all this trouble to hold hands once and touch his cheek.

 

Zinger may have been born during the day, but he wasn't born yesterday

[eric1]

OK, so your view is all these tears and begging are mostly caused by this huge disruption to her lifestyle and perhaps a (temporarily) interruption to their rendezvous, not nesessary she deceived me? That sounds very plausible to me. Although I do not see a point for her to treat me as adversary, she is free to go and be with him at any time. I told her that clearly.

 

I guess I need to check those texts, perhaps there maybe a "leaving you for him, lets get divorced ASAP" one.

 

There are lots of reasons for the tears - embarrassment, horror at getting caught, facing consequences, faced with losing her lover and/or husband, uncertainty of the future, defense, manipulation, bla bla bla

 

The important thing is that you really shouldn't give a flying crap about why she was crying. Every tear was caused as a consequence of something that she did and, by extension, against you.

[zinger]

I'm stunned by your (and ToyBoy's) analytical and forecasting skills:

1-5 nothing, but 6 - a lot of cash withdrawals. A lot and this is when we never use cash. At all.

Not many ATM withdrawals but mostly cash outs in a places where the amount of money spent cannot be explained otherwise. Like when she spends couple of hundreds at the gas station this can be explained only as cash withdrawal unless she was towing and refuelling a cruiser.

 

 

Also some trips to "his" part of the town. Never in direct proximity from his address but it'd be walking distance.

 

 

Did do the stuff I listed in post#200?:zinger, did you DO this? - check the bank and credit card statements?

 

You are looking for -

 

1 - specific purchases

2 - pmts for hotel/motels

3 - GAS from gas stations in new/atypical locales,

4 - TICKETS to venues you didn't know about

5 - especially pmts to RESTAURANTS in new/atypical locales

 

And in lieu of specific payments like these,

 

6 - ATM withdrawals

 

I mean, ZINGER: How did she pay for the watch? There's a freakin' trail somewhere. Just find it.

 

YOU need this proof. Divorce settlements need this proof. She needs to know you have this proof.

 

Hell, maybe I should be a freakin' PI. I'm getting impatient with this guy. Why doesn't HE have access to all your stuff and figured this out already?

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

What's WIS? It makes sense and I'll try to find out more as a matter of "behavioral analysis", don't really care about the financial aspect.

 

I'll check with her friend although I'm more or less confident she played no part in this. She's just that kind of person who'd help my FWW - and she sounded very upset on the phone.

 

Friend,

 

Sorry, I forget what forum I'm on sometimes, so using that abbreviation was out of place. But the other posters were essentially right.

 

WIS means Watch Idiot Savant. It's not a serious term, it's meant as a joke in the watch community.

 

There's no foxed definition, but it pretty much means a watch collector, someone who will own 10, 20, 30 or more watches. There's no pretense of expertise, really, though they end up knowing more about watches than the average person. They probably know more about watches than 95% of the population. Real inside baseball stuff, like what movements were in what watches by tine period and model.

 

As an example, I was waiting for the subway the other day and noticed a tall, attractive woman at the station. Well, I noticed she was wearing a white gold rolex Daytona, panda dial. And that's a typical WIS reaction: I noticed the watch, not so much the woman.

 

In my case, I'm no expert. I just like nice timepieces.

 

Anyway, if it was an omega or tag, I'd say she had a crush. A rrolexis serious. A patek or Cartier, it's a profession of something much more. But it's peripheral. It's all through the prism of the affair, so her perception is warped.

 

I still wouldn't trust the friend.

 

Tread carefully, brother. Good luck.

[turnera]

OK, so your view is all these tears and begging are mostly caused by this huge disruption to her lifestyle and perhaps a (temporarily) interruption to their rendezvous, not nesessary she deceived me? That sounds very plausible to me. Although I do not see a point for her to treat me as adversary, she is free to go and be with him at any time. I told her that clearly.

 

I guess I need to check those texts, perhaps there maybe a "leaving you for him, lets get divorced ASAP" one.

No, I don't necessarily think that. I think when cheaters get caught, they are in shock. They have slowly built up the affair, one tiny step at a time, justifying it all the way, thinking 'this is the new normal.' If they'd stopped to really question what they were doing, fair chance they would have stopped it. But they don't, they are in Affair Fog.

 

In bursts their BS, blowing that fantasy out of the water, and they're left devastated (yes, I said it), because they suddenly have to face the truth of what they've done. It is at THAT moment that you can get the most out of your WS.

 

Of course, SOME waywards are simply just evil (I know a couple) and couldn't care less if they get caught except as a consequence of losing...stuff.

 

Only you would know which kind your wife is.

[turnera]

When I say adversary, what I mean is that at first, she may be willing to bargain with you to either get to stay married to you or to get a decent settlement in divorce. But that shock wears off. Eventually, if she sees you kicking her out, her self defense may kick in, and that shock will disappear and she'll stop negotiating. She will be backed into a corner and you'll see a side of her you didn't expect.

 

That's not a given. She may be remorseful and STAY remorseful. There's one poster whose wife let him kick her out into a small apartment, and she literally sat there in that apartment for a year, while he decided if he could give her another chance. She did everything he told her he needed, and just waited to see if she'd get a second chance.

 

We have no idea what your wife will do. I was just saying that you should get a polygraph, and get it NOW, before the shock wears off and she stops calling you.

[Furious]

OK, so your view is all these tears and begging are mostly caused by this huge disruption to her lifestyle and perhaps a (temporarily) interruption to their rendezvous, not nesessary she deceived me? That sounds very plausible to me. Although I do not see a point for her to treat me as adversary, she is free to go and be with him at any time. I told her that clearly.

 

I guess I need to check those texts, perhaps there maybe a "leaving you for him, lets get divorced ASAP" one.

 

Often, a cheater will panic and try to secure their betrayed spouse into false reconciliation once discovered. In a weird they believe they are being sincere, but it's actually a frantic exercise in not having to face the reality of what they've risked and avoid the consequences of their actions. It's naive to believe that the emotional and physical connection to their affair partner can be shut off with a push of a button.

 

An affair is addictive and the feel good ego boost from it is not something most WS's can just walk away from. In a twisted way, a cheater who feels forced to end the affair because of a d-day inadvertently puts the affair partner on a pedestal, and it adds to the fantasy of lovers torn apart without closure.

 

Odds are your wife has contacted her affair partner and they've come up with a unified story. Your wife has probably told him that for now they must be in low contact. Your wife at this time will feel compelled to secure your forgiveness and attempt damage control so that she can hold the cards and play it to her advantage.

 

Cheaters are rarely remorseful, the tears, the anguish is all about them. Ironically, if they cannot control and manipulate their ugly side appears. Be prepared that once she see's you're not buying her attempt to set things her way you'll see her as someone who will turn on you and it won't be pretty.

 

It's imperative that you retain your dignity, do not shout, do not call her names. This freaks a cheater out, and does not feed into the horrible person she has manufactured in her justification to cheat on you.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Furious

[No Limit]

Although I do not see a point for her to treat me as adversary, she is free to go and be with him at any time. I told her that clearly.

 

But that's just the point - she doesn't want to go. She wants you, good ol' faithful to provide security, and she wants other guy for the excitement. And as soon as you start making decisions for yourself you defy her selfish will, you make her angry.

 

What exactly have you done the past few days zinger? Do you have plans to move out, or to have her move out or anything? The fact that she's already made a few calls to her relatives is troubling. Who knows what she's telling them to save her reputation; the time you hesitate is the time she uses to rebuild a new web of lies. You decided to confront early, and that means you have to act right away, even when it feels at best daunting.

[66Charger]

Why do you need more info right now? May I suggest you look at the facts.

 

1) Your wife wants to date other men. Period. Regardless what she says, actions are facts.

 

2) Your wife is a coward. When faced with her DDay, She ran.

Back into the mall. Left her car there. Who gave her a ride?

Who contacted you first? Who did she contact first?

 

3). Your wife's feelings for this guy is stronger than her feelings for you. She asked a question a few months ago. She heard the answer. She continued.

You returned home early. You as much as told her your suspicions. She continued.

 

4). Your wife spent both of your money on this guy and bought him a nice gift. A watch says "wear this and think of me daily"

 

If you want to see a possible life, read the post of some of these good and bad folks. Some who stayed, some who divorced right away.

 

Read the shame felt from THE BETRAYED? Read the years of pain. Triggers, selfdoubt. Dark dark days. Who wants that?

There is also a huge difference in those that value themselves highly and say Not a chance will I let you treat me like dirt.

 

Then read the other side. What the cheaters say. How they pine for their OM/OW. How they question staying while displaying remorse. How they almost never go NC, no matter what they tell you. How most of them cheat again, especially if no price is paid.

 

 

Why in the world do you need to know the details? You have no children. Divorce will be about the money. You want some real answers? Serve a Supenoa the "artist".

 

Accept what has unfolded. Her words have no relevance. The ,money trail says PA. Accept it. Once the divorce papers are filed. She will tell you, or not.

 

Choose your life. Not hers. Zingers life. Dig down deep brother. Have faith in yourself. Get stronger. Hit the gym. Be your best and look sharp

Edited June 1, 2015 by 66Charger

[BetrayedH]

Talk to an attorney to find out your rights and options. Some states care about adultery. Some don't. Some sorta care. Some may label your departure from the marital home as abandonment. You need some counsel.

 

Talk to a therapist to help you deal with the emotions.

 

A lot of betrayed spouses lose a lot of weight. And a lot of sleep. Take care of yourself.

[zinger]

No, I don't necessarily think that. I think when cheaters get caught, they are in shock. They have slowly built up the affair, one tiny step at a time, justifying it all the way, thinking 'this is the new normal.' If they'd stopped to really question what they were doing, fair chance they would have stopped it. But they don't, they are in Affair Fog.

 

In bursts their BS, blowing that fantasy out of the water, and they're left devastated (yes, I said it), because they suddenly have to face the truth of what they've done. It i

 

I'm almost sure this is the case, thanks a lot for explaining it so diligently.

[zinger]

I cannot believe that I did not remember this until I read Oldshirt's post about the watch! OMG!! My XH's first AP gave him a watch in the middle of their affair. I can't pretend to know why, but I remember I found the watch and the card that went with it about how she loved him and some STUPID sentiment about keeping up with when she would she him next.

 

Wow, old memories from 1997. I didn't look for anything in 2011...I had the black and white kind, thanks to technology.

 

Missed that initially. So even this piece of the puzzle is not so unique after all. I thought it takes a particular kind of man to accept a gift from a women he is not in an established relationship to (let alone married man or from married woman) - the kind I hope I'll never belong to.

 

Thank you, this was enlightening.

[zinger]

Not as much as I'd like given the weekend but have a small action plan nevertheless.

1) Accepted this did happen and there is no way back. Still want answers to my 3 questions but this shouldn't hold back everything else

2) Will be getting a lawyer. I assume the law firm I use for business has a family law partner. I do not expect fight so need someone dedicated to the case to get through this quickly. Sent a email requesting contact.

3) I'm in a hotel and not contactable. Listened to 2 or 3 messages from her parents - they sound completely freaking out and begging me on her behalf to come home. So I'm not a bad guy (yet).

4) I'll be tracking the artist guy. I just want my 5 minutes alone with him in a quiet spot. So the surveillance guy is not off the hook.

5) There is a chance for her (a very small one) if there was no physical component and "emotional involvement" has not progressed to expression of love. Otherwise its over. The burden of proof is on her. If she asks how to prove it I'll suggest a polygraph (no clue if it is avaliable) for both them.

 

 

What exactly have you done the past few days zinger? Do you have plans to move out, or to have her move out or anything? The fact that she's already made a few calls to her relatives is troubling. Who knows what she's telling them to save her reputation; the time you hesitate is the time she uses to rebuild a new web of lies. You decided to confront early, and that means you have to act right away, even when it feels at best daunting.

[Morro72]

Do her parents appear to know the details of what has happened, or do they just know that you've left the house?

[zinger]

Do her parents appear to know the details of what has happened, or do they just know that you've left the house?

 

Can't tell from the message. Its basically "she's so sorry, she feels awful, we are very concerned about both of you, please come home and talk"

[CarrieT]

she's so sorry

Translate:

She is so sorry SHE GOT CAUGHT.

she feels awful

Translate:

She feels awful THAT SHE WAS FOUND OUT.

we are very concerned about both of you

Translate:

We are very concerned that you are going to divorce our daughter and have to deal with the aftermath of her actions.

[Binster]

She went looking to date (you saw the web pages).

 

She found a guy.

 

She hooked up.

 

She used your money to buy a gift for him.

 

Cash unaccounted for.

 

Several meetings.

 

Opportunity to hook up while you away.

 

There's no way it wasn't full on P.A/EA affair sorry pal.

It's time to go nuclear .

[drifter777]

Solid plan. Stay focused, stay strong!

[Morro72]

Can't tell from the message. Its basically "she's so sorry, she feels awful, we are very concerned about both of you, please come home and talk"

Sounds like they're not saying that you've got this all wrong, or that she really loves you, etc.