To bust or not to bust

[BetrayedH]

You seem to waver about whether it's possible to reconcile with your wife. That's pretty normal. Statistically, about 80 percent of men make at least an initial attempt to reconcile; the numbers are slightly higher for women. It's rare to instantly fall out of love with your spouse; you've had a different gision of her for a long time. Most betrayed spouses are devastated, looking at a life turned upside down, and hope and pray for the minimal version of the story to be true. They search their heart for some chance at forgiveness (which sounds very noble) and that is reinforced by a desperate desire to stop the bleeding. And what makes it the perfect storm is that the wayward is also in major damage-control mode. They are in a panic and have no idea what you'll do. They fear the full truth coming out so they keep lying, denying, and minimizing. They agree to whatever you need to not flip out. So, you start to believe in the minimal story.

 

What I might suggest is that you put the burden of proof entirely on her. If she wants you to believe that this was only an inappropriate emotional relationship that she was ending (with a watch), then she can come up with the proof. Words mean nothing, of course, because she's en established liar. She can share all of her text messages and emails with you so you see the whole story from beginning to end. Oh, she deleted them? It's unfortunate (and unbelievable) that she'd delete things that would prove her innocence. My point is...don't put pressure on yourself to desperately believe a bunch of bs. Don't believe any words. Just believe actions. In the meantime, take definitive actions of your own to show that you won't accept unacceptable behavior. Right now you know she had an inappropriate relationship with this guy and that there was some physical contact. And she's clearly been lying so you have no reason not to believe where the signs are pointing.

 

If she comes up with a timeline, proves her version of the story, commits to NC with the OM for life, makes her life an open book, signs herself up for counseling, and otherwise does what you would consider worthy of an attempt at reconciliation, great. Then you consider halting the proceedings. But don't put the burden of proof on yourself. Put it squarely on her.

[fellini]

The depth of his love for his wife is one of the factors, but not the only one. If we follow this logic you should stay with your cheating spouse even if he/she doesn't end the affair, if you truly love him/her.

But it doesn't work like that... There are always other conditions...

 

Well then you are deliberately misreading my post.

 

She has claimed she ended the affair.

He has suggested that he would consider reconciliation if she hasn't done anything physical, and not if she has.

 

It was in that context that I argued made my point.

 

To turn THAT around saying that a woman can continue to remain with her AP just because all that matters is love is a problem with your reading, not my post.

 

And I don't think either that if falls on "other conditions". It falls entirely on the decision of the BS to reconcile or not based on what he/she learns about the meaning of the affair.

 

There are no conditions which you could establish which even two people never minde everyone here would agree upon. It's a personal choice.

Edited June 1, 2015 by fellini

[italianjob]

Well then you are deliberately misreading my post.

 

She has claimed she ended the affair.

He has suggested that he would consider reconciliation if she hasn't done anything physical, and not if she has.

 

It was in that context that I argued made my point.

 

To turn THAT around saying that a woman can continue to remain with her AP just because all that matters is love is a problem with your reading, not my post.

 

And I don't think either that if falls on "other conditions". It falls entirely on the decision of the BS to reconcile or not based on what he/she learns about the meaning of the affair.

 

There are no conditions which you could establish which even two people never minde everyone here would agree upon. It's a personal choice.

 

Exactly, based on what he learns about the meaning of the affair. Your wording made it seem like the decision to reconcile was based solely on the depth of his love for his wife, which is like saying that if he decided not to reconcile it would mean he didn't love her in the first place.

 

And calm down, I'm not deliberately misreading anything, and I'm in no contest to determine if you are not explaining yourself or I'm not reading you the right way, so there's no need to be so arrogant

[LifesontheUp]

You seem to waver about whether it's possible to reconcile with your wife. That's pretty normal. Statistically, about 80 percent of men make at least an initial attempt to reconcile; the numbers are slightly higher for women. It's rare to instantly fall out of love with your spouse; you've had a different gision of her for a long time. Most betrayed spouses are devastated, looking at a life turned upside down, and hope and pray for the minimal version of the story to be true. They search their heart for some chance at forgiveness (which sounds very noble) and that is reinforced by a desperate desire to stop the bleeding. And what makes it the perfect storm is that the wayward is also in major damage-control mode. They are in a panic and have no idea what you'll do. They fear the full truth coming out so they keep lying, denying, and minimizing. They agree to whatever you need to not flip out. So, you start to believe in the minimal story.

 

What I might suggest is that you put the burden of proof entirely on her. If she wants you to believe that this was only an inappropriate emotional relationship that she was ending (with a watch), then she can come up with the proof. Words mean nothing, of course, because she's en established liar. She can share all of her text messages and emails with you so you see the whole story from beginning to end. Oh, she deleted them? It's unfortunate (and unbelievable) that she'd delete things that would prove her innocence. My point is...don't put pressure on yourself to desperately believe a bunch of bs. Don't believe any words. Just believe actions. In the meantime, take definitive actions of your own to show that you won't accept unacceptable behavior. Right now you know she had an inappropriate relationship with this guy and that there was some physical contact. And she's clearly been lying so you have no reason not to believe where the signs are pointing.

 

If she comes up with a timeline, proves her version of the story, commits to NC with the OM for life, makes her life an open book, signs herself up for counseling, and otherwise does what you would consider worthy of an attempt at reconciliation, great. Then you consider halting the proceedings. But don't put the burden of proof on yourself. Put it squarely on her.

 

This happened to me. When I found out about my xH affair, I threw him out of the marital home as he couldn't leave his "crutch".

 

So a week or so later, he came back begging me to give it another chance. At this point, I was in turmoil, I still hadn't come to terms with how he had treated me; how he could do this with the OW working barely 5 feet away from me and while my father had just died of cancer and I had been away looking after him for a spell.

 

So I did what I thought was best at time and gave him a chance; after all we had been together 18 yrs. And during the next 6 months, we had some dates and I slowly came to realise that my gut was right when I threw him out and I didn't want him anymore.

 

What I am trying to say, is to take your time. You don't need to decide if you want to reconcile or not now. The ball is in your court, if she wants you to take her back and forgive her, she has to wait.

 

I'm sorry for what you are going through, but I and others are living proof that you do get through it. Whether it will be with your wife or not only time will tell. In the meantime, take care of you and get some support from your family and some close friends. They can be a godsend at this time.

[No Limit]

3) I'm in a hotel and not contactable. Listened to 2 or 3 messages from her parents - they sound completely freaking out and begging me on her behalf to come home. So I'm not a bad guy (yet).

 

You wrote it yourself; you provided financial help. You're their daughters meal ticket, of course they want to keep you. Also because it's hard to find a new partner for someone whose last marriage ended due to their affair. It's also good that you moved out and are getting a lawyer; helps your mind and protects your assets. But don't expect anything to come from artist guy, at best he'll have a lie story that he and your wife practiced in store for you. He's not the one responsible for the dawnfall of your marriage, your wife is - and the fact that she doesn't come over with proof in her hand is quite telling.

[66Charger]

A poster said there is no formula for love and marriage.

 

Yes there is.

 

Its called your wedding vows.

[66Charger]

There is a possibility that she is telling the truth. No phone calls to the AP is telling. Unless there is another phone. People in a panick make big mistakes.

 

This was a thrill cheat. Be patient but dig deeply.

Edited June 1, 2015 by 66Charger

[eric1]

There is a possibility that she is telling the truth. No phone calls to the AP is telling. Unless there is another phone. People in a panick make big mistakes.

 

This was a thrill cheat. Be patient but dig deeply.

 

There was never consistent calls before, either. She was using another application, likely Kik.

[oldshirt]

As a former OM in my youth, I think he should pay a visit to the OM.

 

It's very very rare that OMs are actually in love with the WW and are willing to put up with much if any resistance or negative feedback.

 

OMs are in it for the quick and easy poontang without the complications of a legit relationship. A pi$$ed of H showing up at your door is a big downer and big impediment to your fun and frivolities.

 

99% of OM will simply walk away once confronted by BH. The vast majority will also end the A and won't continue to come sniffing around the WW and won't be at her beck and call if she needs to "talk" and needs comforting after DDay. Most will throw the WW under the bus after being paid a visit by BH.

 

Those that aren't confronted and have no negative consequences for their actions will continue to be glad to provide "services" for the WW.

 

OM need to have consequences for their actions and also need to be held accountable. Otherwise it's still fun and games for them and still free poontang.

 

I'm not suggesting anything illegal, harmful or fattening of course and it really does not need to be anything like that. Simply showing up and having a stern discussion is typically all that is required.

[oldshirt]

As this sounds like an online hook up and not a work related affair where they have been building a report and feelings for a long time. This guy will run for the hills at the first sign of Zinger looking for him.

 

He will just be a fly being batted away by the horses tail.

 

It is important for him to be inconvenienced and to be held accountable however. Otherwise it will still just be a game to him and he will keep trying to get his fun and games in.

[oldshirt]

...and if OM is married or has a steady GF, she needs to be notified.

 

Not only so that she is informed and can do what she needs to do to protect herself, but it will also destabilize him and takes the fight to his house where he will need to put out the fires and do damage control in his own house and wont have time and energy to continue to pursue Mrs Zinger.

 

And that will also produce a good helping of negative feedback which will make the flunk with Mrs Zinger seem much much less enticing.

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

It's better to back off and let her boyfriend have 100% of her. Up until now, he got the fun 10% of the fun part of the relationship with the 90% of the other stuff. He probably has no interest in the other 90%. Let him have it all.

 

I've never carried on with a married woman, but if I did have that kind of poor judgmentit ewould be because it's a cheap, easy relationship. I think most men would feel that way - a willing woman available for sex, but I wouldn't have to spendmmuch time or money on her.

 

If you are looking for satisfaction, or some kind of apology, I can't say. But what's the point? He will either sincerely say he didn't know she was married, or say it insincerely. Or he will just say look, your wife came to me, I did it, I knew whatiI was doing and didn't care.

 

There's nothing meaningful from this conversation. It's either going to be deceit, sincere protest of innocence, or a cavalier disregard. Who needs any of that?

 

Just one man's opinion. I would have nothing to say tto the guy, and have no interest in what he had to say. Maybe that's a minority position.

[oldshirt]

It's better to back off and let her boyfriend have 100% of her. Up until now, he got the fun 10% of the fun part of the relationship with the 90% of the other stuff. He probably has no interest in the other 90%. Let him have it all.

 

I've never carried on with a married woman, but if I did have that kind of poor judgmentit ewould be because it's a cheap, easy relationship. I think most men would feel that way - a willing woman available for sex, but I wouldn't have to spendmmuch time or money on her.

 

If you are looking for satisfaction, or some kind of apology, I can't say. But what's the point? He will either sincerely say he didn't know she was married, or say it insincerely. Or he will just say look, your wife came to me, I did it, I knew whatiI was doing and didn't care.

 

There's nothing meaningful from this conversation. It's either going to be deceit, sincere protest of innocence, or a cavalier disregard. Who needs any of that?

 

Just one man's opinion. I would have nothing to say tto the guy, and have no interest in what he had to say. Maybe that's a minority position.

 

 

I think it's actually the majority position on this board. I disagree with doing nothing about the AP and letting them off Scott free.

 

When they have no negative consequences, they keep coming around and keep living the high life. The moment it gets uncomfortable for them and the moment it complicates their life, they scatter like roaches when the light comes on.

 

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing.

[eric1]

My view on the AP is not a popular one.

 

I believe that post-dday that it's nice to focus on emotions rather than loss of self-worth, etc. Anger and vengence is awesome. Use every legal method to destroy the guy's life. Why not? It'll hasten him out of your life, establish you're not to be ****ed with and maybe make him think twice before he does it again.

 

You do need to do it smartly so he doesn't become a sympathetic figure. There is a thread here with some cheater's husband (Sofie) who completed f8cking decimated the other guy like a silent, cold assassin. He's my hero. He handled his awful cheating wife and her affair partner perfectly.

[drifter777]

If in your heart of hearts you know that you will never "get over it" with regard to your wife cheating then, please, don't waste any time or painful energy going the reconciliation route. You will end up divorcing anyway or living unhappily married and resenting her every time you think of it. And you will think of it a lot more than you imagine.

 

The odds of a husband divorcing his cheating wife are very, very high - like 80+ percent - when he catches her cheating.

 

You caught her. You seem to be a man of extremely high character with a strong moral code. However you decide to proceed right now the future for your marriage is very bleak. As far as contact, I recommend zero for at least another week. Then you could begin to communicate on things that you need to - like asking her to get out or picking up your belongings. If you have children then you may need to discuss custody and how that is going to work. Stay business-like with her. All of what I am telling you is for you to begin your personal healing as soon as possible. I urge you to see a counselor. Internet friends can give you a wide variety of opinions based on their life experience, but this is your life. You need someone to work with you.

 

As for seeing the OM - it depends on how you think you can handle yourself. If you simply want to attack him then you are headed for jail but you could be ok with that. But there is a chance to get some truth out of him. First, set a meeting with him. Tell him you only want to talk and offer to meet in a public place. Now, your wife and him have already put a story in place and he will stick to it. But, you can defeat that if you - when you sit down with him - you tell him that you just came from giving your wife an ultimatum - truth or divorce - and she came clean with everything. Every detail. Now you are talking with him, man-to-man, to verify what she says is the real truth. Appeal to the "brotherhood" that exists and make sure he understands that, as far as your concerned, this is all on your wife and he was just the guy who was there. That you hold no malice toward him and you expect him to level with you. Then let him talk. Call him on anything that sounds remotely like bullsh*t and remind him that this is man-to-man and you need the truth. This might be worth a try.

[Binster]

Personally i would leave the other man alone you've nothing to gain in speaking with him.

He owes you nothing.

He didn't cheat on you.

He'll tell you nothing but lies (try to minimise).

You can't really believe anything he'll say.

 

Plus apart from you loosing it with him and going to jail. He just could be the sadistic type who will say things (true or false) just to twist the knife into you even more.

Sorry mate there's just nothing to gain from him.

 

Obviously if he has a wife or g/f rat him out.

[oldshirt]

If someone was sneaking into your garage and taking your car out for joy ride and brining it home filthy, with dents and dings, out of gas and dripping fluid out of it, would you not confront the perpetrator because you'd have "nothing to gain" ???

 

Ones spouse and life-partner is the biggest and most important investment a person will make and will have the biggest impact on the quality of your life. Your spouse is one of the things that you will hold most dear in your life.

 

An AP is an interloper that sneaks in at night and takes your spouse out without permission and rides her hard and puts her back filthy, dinged up, worn out and dripping fluid.

 

Most people would not allow someone joy riding their car without taking action so why are we so quick to discourage taking action when someone is joy riding their spouse?

 

No-one is advocating violence, vandalism or anything illegal, just doing business and running off intruders messing with your stuff.

 

I've seen people come unglued when the neighbors dog takes a crap in their yard. Why should someone tolerate an interloper taking a big crap in their wife's vagina?

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

I think it's actually the majority position on this board. I disagree with doing nothing about the AP and letting them off Scott free.

 

When they have no negative consequences, they keep coming around and keep living the high life. The moment it gets uncomfortable for them and the moment it complicates their life, they scatter like roaches when the light comes on.

 

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing.

I understand your position. It's perfectly fair and legitimate, and you raise a good point.

[BetrayedH]

If someone was sneaking into your garage and taking your car out for joy ride and brining it home filthy, with dents and dings, out of gas and dripping fluid out of it, would you not confront the perpetrator because you'd have "nothing to gain" ???

 

Ones spouse and life-partner is the biggest and most important investment a person will make and will have the biggest impact on the quality of your life. Your spouse is one of the things that you will hold most dear in your life.

 

An AP is an interloper that sneaks in at night and takes your spouse out without permission and rides her hard and puts her back filthy, dinged up, worn out and dripping fluid.

 

Most people would not allow someone joy riding their car without taking action so why are we so quick to discourage taking action when someone is joy riding their spouse?

 

No-one is advocating violence, vandalism or anything illegal, just doing business and running off intruders messing with your stuff.

 

I've seen people come unglued when the neighbors dog takes a crap in their yard. Why should someone tolerate an interloper taking a big crap in their wife's vagina?

 

I suppose it depends on whether he cares about keeping the car anymore. Maybe the interloper could take over the payments.

[Binster]

I know what your saying but would you expect them to honestly tell you how much mileage they'd covered or what speeds they'd gone at.

 

Personally to be up front with the guy (especially if he gets a bit lippy) it's just not going to end well.

[oldshirt]

I know what your saying but would you expect them to honestly tell you how much mileage they'd covered or what speeds they'd gone at.

 

Personally to be up front with the guy (especially if he gets a bit lippy) it's just not going to end well.

 

It doesn't need to end well. It just needs to end.

 

 

And mileage and speed are actually pretty irrelevant. It's the fact that it's happening at all that needs to be delt with.

 

At the end of the day, meeting the OM probably isn't going to gather any more useful information. It's not going to fix anything or save the marriage or make the divorce go smoother.

 

It may even be just another thing that Zinger is going to hav to add to his long list of things to do and it may be a pain in his a$$ and bring him no pleasure.

 

But what is does do is it makes it cost the OM something. It makes it so he doesn't get some fun in the sheets with his wife for free. It makes him pay a price.

It makes it so it isn't so much fun for him anymore.

 

It's just part of the process of closing the loop. It's taking care of business and men need to take care of business.

 

Zinger may not get any answers. He may not get any joy or satisfaction. But he will get some of his honor and dignity back by not letting some other dude take what was his without paying a price.

 

That in and of itself is priceless.

 

And it will most likely keep the OM away from his wife while he decides which route to take.

 

If he ultimately decides to attempt reconciliation, it will be critical to keep the OM out of her air space while they attempt reconciliation. If the OM suffers no consequences for his actions, there's no reason for him not to keep coming around schmoozing her and giving her lots of fun and logins and that will just hamper and possibly destroy any chances of a reconciliation.

 

Even if he doesn't want to reconcile and is fine with letting the OM have her, busting up their little play time will take all of the fun out of it for the both of them and he'll move on to some other gal and Zinger will have the satisfaction of knowing he took care of business and didn't let them walk all over him.

 

And there is a chance the OM will decide married women aren't worth it and wont be poaching any other married women.

 

It's just the right thing to do. Like all right things to do, there may be no instant gratification, but the long term effects will out weigh the short term PITA factor.

 

Whereas the long term effects of not doing it will just make him feel more emasculated and impotent.

[aliveagain]

You caught her, she now knows that you know about her secret life of infidelity. It is now up to her to prove sex(unprotected, it's always unprotected) didn't happen, telling him she loved him didn't happen, how long it went on for, who knew about it and if any friends facilitated helping her cheat. She is now a nasty lying cheater that sought out another man, a cheater that didn't mind meeting him in public, holding hands so everyone would see but now needs the help of her friends and family to put pressure on you to stay with her broken a$$.

 

Take time to decide what it is you want, you can't trust her reasons for being with you anymore. Once you know what you want start on that path. No matter what you decide, talk to a lawyer first, understand your rights, protect your finances. Take a piece of jewelry she holds dear and sell it, give the money to a favorite charity, that should offset the gift she bought her boyfriend. She will never forget that consequence.

 

Let her know that there will be no reconciliation until she passes a polygraph. If she refuses you know the worst has happened. Again, it is up to her to give you proof that nothing major happened, your the prize worth fighting for and not some broke artist who lives off married women. Stand your ground, take back the dignity she crapped on. Being nice will get you nowhere and words mean sh*t, only believe her actions.

[66Charger]

We should let him breathe for a moment

[RightThere]

Personally i would leave the other man alone you've nothing to gain in speaking with him.

He owes you nothing.

He didn't cheat on you.

He'll tell you nothing but lies (try to minimise).

You can't really believe anything he'll say.

 

Plus apart from you loosing it with him and going to jail. He just could be the sadistic type who will say things (true or false) just to twist the knife into you even more.

Sorry mate there's just nothing to gain from him.

 

Obviously if he has a wife or g/f rat him out.

 

Just want to echo this. I met more than one of my STBXW's other men and it was useless for me (although some of them thought it brought them a shred of honour being nice to me).

 

It's totally self serving for them. Everything they tell you will be the same lies you FWW has told you.

 

"She said your marriage was over"

"She said you didn't care if she was having an affair"

 

Unless your planning to meet him in an alley with a crowbar, it serves no purpose for you. If he has a GF or a wife, do tell them because I wish people who had known about my Ex's infidelity would have said something to me.

 

I will also say that although you don't have proof of a sexual affair, you can assume there was one. You don't have that some amount of physical contact (hand holding, face touching) that you were able to witness without actually having sex recently. Although with guys I understand the need to know if there was a physical affair to go with some proof. But your wife will take that to her grave if she's able and deny until the ends of the earth.

[HurtHusband]

Wouldn't the best revenge be, getting your wife out of your life and eventually finding a decent woman ( when your ready) who's not cheating lying scum?

 

And I hate the predicament the BS is placed in, scrambling around shell shocked,

Searching for clues, trying to make sense of it all, wondering where it went wrong, being part detective part psychologist.... It's tiring, it saps your energy and motivation. All the worry and stress, why did this happen to me type stuff.

 

 

Cut her out of your life, like someone throwing a fish back into the sea. She's the inedible unpalatable variety anyway.what you want is some good snapper..

 

 

And let her shack up with the OM, a cheater with another cheater, a match made in heaven. Not as much fun without the clandestine excitement of an affair but who cares what they do.. Your now free, and she's some other chumps problem. And you don't have to pay for all her crap..... And let her live with the guilt and regret if she feels any....

 

 

Why not send a nice thank you/ congratulations card to the OM? Saying something like 'Hey buddy! Thanks for taking the witch off my hands! I hope you two love birds are really happy. Your wife must be thrilled too! I sent her a nice note informing her of your unyielding love for my ex wife.

Well must dash!

 

 

 

Ok that's a bit tongue in cheek and I know your dealing with the initial shock and I don't mean to dance all over your broken heart and feelings.... But at some stage you'll get really sick of being consumed by her infidelity... That bad taste in your mouth and that sickly feeling in the pit of your stomach that you can't get rid of....

Edited June 3, 2015 by HurtHusband