To bust or not to bust

[zinger]

It's been great chatting with you, Mrs. Zinger!

 

I spilled my cofee. Guess its my turn to have hiccups.

[zinger]

So many great posts (even to like them all). Eric's assessment is very accurate. When I change houses - hopefully to get a better one with a stronger foundation - I'd much prefer to have the old one cleaned and no personal artefacts left.

 

It was not me who told families about lie detector (is rather keep it private for mine and hers sake) and is mostly my family barraging me with annoying stuff. Hers are smart enough not to object (better part in me wants to believe out of decency not mercantile).

 

I didn't forced the test by holding divorce gun to her head. Just said "its critical for me to know the truth and extent at the moment and you must understand that" trust me"s and "you know me"s are not working as I do my trust you not do I feel I know you. So since you were not able to come up with anything better I wonder if those 'I'll do everything"s include taking the lid detector test". I also suspect that subconsciously she thought I won't go through with it because as now it's booked and I asked her to have that timeslot available she looks really... scared I guess?

 

In my reality that is paralel to all this nonsense I'm communicating with the lawyer and looking for steps to start living single. About 6 month ago I had an opportunity to get a long gig in US which was very attractive for a single lesson (naturally turned it down). So today I've asked if it is still on the table. All things like that.

[Friskyone4u]

Zinger,

 

Remember, not matter what, DO NOT cancel the test. It is NOT uncommon to get a little more TT in order to make you think that she has now come clean.

 

It is ludicrous that she is telling you to :just rrust her" and "shes not like that".

She is "like that" . Totally delusional she thi nks she can get caught red handded and sluff it off with a few phrases right out of the Cheaters Handbook 101.

 

And if there is nothing out there that is going to "bury" any chance of R, there is absolutely nothing to be scared about. You need to tell her that every time she tgries to give you the poor little scared vicitm crap.

 

Any discomfort she has right now is totally her own doing. Cheating on your husband is not fun once you get caught. Guess she is starting to understand that

[eric1]

I've never polygraphed but my understanding is that fear is exactly what you want. The only thing conclusive you'll get that day is a parking lot trickle truth whopper.

 

Moving away after the separation is very perfect. It's exactly what the "hero" of the most inspirational infidelity thread I've ever read did (SpaceGhost007, it's on a different site but you can google it, it's in the first few pages of results)

[zinger]

Not cancelling at all. I understand all the negatives and why I'm or will be percieved as a cruel peson running all chances of reconciliation, etc. I get that, it is just I'm simply doing what I feel needs to be done and considerations for FWW just lost their place in top ten.

 

 

Zinger,

 

Remember, not matter what, DO NOT cancel the test. It is NOT uncommon to get a little more TT in order to make you think that she has now come clean.

 

It is ludicrous that she is telling you to :just rrust her" and "shes not like that".

She is "like that" . Totally delusional she thi nks she can get caught red handded and sluff it off with a few phrases right out of the Cheaters Handbook 101.

 

And if there is nothing out there that is going to "bury" any chance of R, there is absolutely nothing to be scared about. You need to tell her that every time she tgries to give you the poor little scared vicitm crap.

 

Any discomfort she has right now is totally her own doing. Cheating on your husband is not fun once you get caught. Guess she is starting to understand that

[zinger]

Yeah, you have suggested his story some time ago so I goggled. Liked the story, didn't like the personality to be honest.

 

 

I've never polygraphed but my understanding is that fear is exactly what you want. The only thing conclusive you'll get that day is a parking lot trickle truth whopper.

 

Moving away after the separation is very perfect. It's exactly what the "hero" of the most inspirational infidelity thread I've ever read did (SpaceGhost007, it's on a different site but you can google it, it's in the first few pages of results)

[eric1]

Yeah he's one of the more love him or hate him guys out there. I guess the reason he strikes a cord with me (as you do) is that both of you have a line that you've drawn in the sand and are staying strong with their ethics.

 

The worst part of my experience wasn't finding out, getting divorced or whatever. The worst part was the waffling feeling of making a decision I guess I knew deep down was a compromise. She didn't emasculate me. She had no power to. I did.

[zinger]

Yes, compromise is appropriate of your are dealing with constraints that are beyond your control (like your cost quality time when you are running the project). If it is in your control there is no need for the compromise.

In other words, I've just realised that if my marriage involves other man (with whom I neg to "complete" as per that IC) and if I stay in it constant thinking of I have made the right decision is not really a marriage. So no compromise to save is needed because there's nothing really to save.

 

 

 

Yeah he's one of the more love him or hate him guys out there. I guess the reason he strikes a cord with me (as you do) is that both of you have a line that you've drawn in the sand and are staying strong with their ethics.

 

The worst part of my experience wasn't finding out, getting divorced or whatever. The worst part was the waffling feeling of making a decision I guess I knew deep down was a compromise. She didn't emasculate me. She had no power to. I did.

[eric1]

Yeah I get you.

 

The marriage is pure or not pure. You want a pure marriage, and know that you deserve on, and have the conviction to demand one

[gettingstronger]

Zinger- your personality shows through quite clear in your posts- you are very logical and determined- I can not for the life of me understand how or why your wife risked your marriage if she wanted to stay with you-surely she knew you would react just as you did-I am unsure where I am going with this-I guess just to say, if you are getting pressure or guilt for reacting as you have, I would say to those people 'you know me, how did you think I would react?"

[sandylee1]

Of course she's going to turn to family and friends for advice and perspective. She's in the middle of a personal crisis and her husband effectively sees her as the enemy. He can't claim any right to any kind of privacy when his unwavering plan has been to involve lawyers, judges, clerks, and polygraph examiners in their lives.

 

Did she run to them when she was having her affair? ...No.

Sleeping with OM?

Buying him a tag watch?

Buying him art materials?

 

 

She needs to stop this manipulative behaviour. She can cry to her own family and leave his family alone. She needs to woman up and own he s**t.

[sandylee1]

I would ask thought that people make a greater effort to read and understand my actual words rather than their own interpretation of them.

 

Why do you think many of us are interpreting your words in a certain way?

 

Coincidence ?

We lack basic comprehension?

[beatcuff]

It's manipulation plain and simple.

 

as opposed to asking for a polygraph when route has been chosen?

 

What would piss me off most is *her* family contacting me. THEY raised a person who went out and had an affair. Granted it's not all on them, but to not look in the mirror and instead of putting the press on good ol Zinger figure out how they contributed to this disaster.

 

the overreaching here to defend the indefensible is comical.

[gettingstronger]

as opposed to asking for a polygraph when route has been chosen?

 

 

 

the overreaching here to defend the indefensible is comical.

 

 

 

Beatcuff- I understand what you are saying, but I have to say Zinger has been pretty steadfast in his handling of this-to me, it shows this is how he is wired- so it does not matter if we agree or disagree with what he is doing-it just seems to me that the people in his life are looking for him to react in a way that is just not him- as I stated above- how did they think he was going to react- he seems pretty upfront about who he is and what he is all about-

[fellini]

Thread is disolving into responses based more on the attitude some have of the posters than common sense.

 

If it takes a huge stretch of the imagination to recognise that when someone is in crises, that they turn to family for support, then perhaps you should take a reality check.

 

Accusing posters here of being the peanut gallery for the wayward, calling them the wayward when in fact they are offering their perspective is the surest way to win likes but the least helpful in achieving the objectives of the OP seeking diverse counsel.

 

I get that some people want to cheer on the OP, but are there no limits?

 

And lastly I have to say that using the "she should have thought about that before she cheated" or "she didn't think of that while she was cheating" is for me both a crude and impoverished way to help make sense of for people trying to move forward in any direction post dday.

 

Everyone and I mean everyone truly touched by infidelity knows things don't work like that and to pretend you don't is to drag discussion down several levels, let alone completely ingenuous.

 

If what you believe is a WS lost all her rights, all due respect, opened herself to humiliation and degradation for cheating, then just say so, and at least we will understand some of the suggestions here. But to disguise rating people badly in the form of some kind of justice for the betrayed seems to me something that others have the right to challenge on moral grounds without being slammed as supporting wayward behaviour.

[autumnnight]

If what you believe is a WS lost all her rights, all due respect, opened herself to humiliation and degradation for cheating, then just say so, and at least we will understand some of the suggestions here. But to disguise rating people badly in the form of some kind of justice for the betrayed seems to me something that others have the right to challenge on moral grounds without being slammed as supporting wayward behaviour.

 

I may not agree with the above viewpoint, but I can at least respect someone who has the guts to own it instead of deny it when anyone with eyes can see the attitude is there.

 

Zinger, if you want to save your marriage, then take action that will save it. If you want to leave, then leave. But do not take definitive leaving action as a means to stay. That makes no sense.

 

Let's get real. People who divorce and do not plan to stay divorced are basically doing so to punish the WS and to have a chance to get some "legal" action on the side. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but let's not pretend it is something it is not. Divorce is a reasonable response to infidelity, so there's no need to dress it up.

 

If you want a polygraph, tell her it is a condition of possibly saving the marriage. If you're going to divorce and get your jollies afterward anyway, who cares about a poly?

[gettingstronger]

Fellini- I am not sure if your post was directed at my contributions or not-but for me, as I see it- we are wired as we are- regardless of the "surprising" things we do post dday, when it comes down to how we handle infidelity it does usually align with how we are wired- I am by nature, very forgiving and fluid in my actions- Zinger appears to be almost surgical in how he approaches life- I am not saying she should have thought of that before she cheated, what I am saying is, I am confused on how those around him expected him to be anything other than what he is-even in times of crisis-how he approaches life is how he is approaching this-agree or disagree on his actions, it seems to be what works for him, how he deals-

[eric1]

I do not see an issue with her turning to her family for support and thankfully Zinger has cleared that up for us. My question boils down to why she was turning to the family of her betrayed spouse, particular in light of his observation that their constant involvement hasn't been a positive for his healing or his current psyche.

 

They may have a different relationship than I'm privy to but on the surface it strikes me as weird and likely manipulative.

 

That's all. I trust that Zinger is taking my observation, like all of ours, with a healthy grain of salt.

 

Thread is disolving into responses based more on the attitude some have of the posters than common sense.

 

If it takes a huge stretch of the imagination to recognise that when someone is in crises, that they turn to family for support, then perhaps you should take a reality check.

 

Accusing posters here of being the peanut gallery for the wayward, calling them the wayward when in fact they are offering their perspective is the surest way to win likes but the least helpful in achieving the objectives of the OP seeking diverse counsel.

 

I get that some people want to cheer on the OP, but are there no limits?

 

And lastly I have to say that using the "she should have thought about that before she cheated" or "she didn't think of that while she was cheating" is for me both a crude and impoverished way to help make sense of for people trying to move forward in any direction post dday.

 

Everyone and I mean everyone truly touched by infidelity knows things don't work like that and to pretend you don't is to drag discussion down several levels, let alone completely ingenuous.

 

If what you believe is a WS lost all her rights, all due respect, opened herself to humiliation and degradation for cheating, then just say so, and at least we will understand some of the suggestions here. But to disguise rating people badly in the form of some kind of justice for the betrayed seems to me something that others have the right to challenge on moral grounds without being slammed as supporting wayward behaviour.

[SpokenFor]

Zinger's wife has complete knowledge of what happened, he does not. Either she had a PA and wants him to "forgive without knowing what he is forgiving her for", or she did not. That is the simple heart of the matter.

 

I believe Zinger has made it very clear to his wife that their marriage has to be clean and solid and to be so means he has to know all about this affair. So, I don't think he has made a final determination; she is forcing him to continue on a path by refusing to give him what he has asked her to give.

 

Getting families and/or friends involved is just noise to him at this point; kind of irrelevant. The simple thing is whether or not she gives him what she knows so they can move forward with a decision on a sound foundation.

[eric1]

And even though he's following through with the divorce, the least that she could do from an ethical standpoint is to provide him poly results if those results will give him any sort of closure.

 

He is the victim.

 

He didn't ask to be cheated on.

[fellini]

No, GS, not directed at you, in fact not even directed at the actions Zinger takes. In a nutshell, Im talking about the tendency to rally behind a BS and in doing so feel that the WS is open season for any kind of treatment because "she brought it upon herself".

 

I'll bite on one example. I completely agree with west81. People are (deliberately or not) claiming he is saying things he clearly is not. It's not his posts that are confusing, it's those who are filtering what he says.

 

For example: I am not a WS. But I would be extremely uncomfortable if my spouse, for any reason whatsoever, demanded I take a lie detector test to "prove" something. We all have something to hide. And my uncomfort would come from knowing my spouse, the person I married, needed this from me because she had no other way of getting past the truth. WE SHOULD ALL BE UNCOMFORTABLE about lie detector tests. We are subjecting our REALITY to a machine.

 

For me, had I asked my WW to conduct a lie detector test to verify what I believe I know, I would, upon proper reflection, have to come to the conclusion that my marriage was over. And if I thought about it long enough, I would realize that it was over in MY VERY THINKING I SHOULD FORCE HER to take it, not just in doing it. Who the f--k do I think I am demanding another human being to take a test to satisfy me? My own WW is a pretty intelligent woman, and I frankly would expect her answer to be: I will take your test if that is what you wish. And when you see I have not lied to you, I will divorce you because the man I thought I married would not subject me to such humiliation. Even though she cheated on me, she would be right. That is not me. I have already made my decision about being traumatized by my WW but this does not release me of my obligation to be authentic to who I am.

 

This is my view, I do not intend that Zinger should agree to it. I do not expect ANYONE to accept it. IT is not a position open to interpretation, analogy, or transformation into other "but what ifs". It is a representation of what I stand for and is not up for debate. I will never ask my spouse to take a lie detector test even if I thought she was lying through her teeth. I married a woman, not a computer printout.

 

Fellini- I am not sure if your post was directed at my contributions or not-but for me, as I see it- we are wired as we are- regardless of the "surprising" things we do post dday, when it comes down to how we handle infidelity it does usually align with how we are wired- I am by nature, very forgiving and fluid in my actions- Zinger appears to be almost surgical in how he approaches life- I am not saying she should have thought of that before she cheated, what I am saying is, I am confused on how those around him expected him to be anything other than what he is-even in times of crisis-how he approaches life is how he is approaching this-agree or disagree on his actions, it seems to be what works for him, how he deals-

Edited June 23, 2015 by fellini

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

And even though he's following through with the divorce, the least that she could do from an ethical standpoint is to provide him poly results if those results will give him any sort of closure.

 

He is the victim.

 

He didn't ask to be cheated on.

At least she could just tell the truth. She has nothing to lose at this point. It would be a sign of respect and dignity.

[merrmeade]

The marriage is pure or not pure. You want a pure marriage, and know that you deserve on, and have the conviction to demand one

Pure? Not sure what that means...

[81West]

No, GS, not directed at you, in fact not even directed at the actions Zinger takes. In a nutshell, Im talking about the tendency to rally behind a BS and in doing so feel that the WS is open season for any kind of treatment because "she brought it upon herself".

 

I'll bite on one example. I completely agree with west81. People are (deliberately or not) claiming he is saying things he clearly is not. It's not his posts that are confusing, it's those who are filtering what he says.

 

For example: I am not a WS. But I would be extremely uncomfortable if my spouse, for any reason whatsoever, demanded I take a lie detector test to "prove" something. We all have something to hide. And my uncomfort would come from knowing my spouse, the person I married, needed this from me because she had no other way of getting past the truth. WE SHOULD ALL BE UNCOMFORTABLE about lie detector tests. We are subjecting our REALITY to a machine.

 

For me, had I asked my WW to conduct a lie detector test to verify what I believe I know, I would, upon proper reflection, have to come to the conclusion that my marriage was over. And if I thought about it long enough, I would realize that it was over in MY VERY THINKING I SHOULD FORCE HER to take it, not just in doing it. Who the f--k do I think I am demanding another human being to take a test to satisfy me? My own WW is a pretty intelligent woman, and I frankly would expect her answer to be: I will take your test if that is what you wish. And when you see I have not lied to you, I will divorce you because the man I thought I married would not subject me to such humiliation. Even though she cheated on me, she would be right. That is not me. I have already made my decision about being traumatized by my WW but this does not release me of my obligation to be authentic to who I am.

 

This is my view, I do not intend that Zinger should agree to it. I do not expect ANYONE to accept it. IT is not a position open to interpretation, analogy, or transformation into other "but what ifs". It is a representation of what I stand for and is not up for debate. I will never ask my spouse to take a lie detector test even if I thought she was lying through her teeth. I married a woman, not a computer printout.

 

I'm a girl!

 

[81West]

Yeah I get you.

 

The marriage is pure or not pure. You want a pure marriage, and know that you deserve on, and have the conviction to demand one

 

I think we all more or less work within the relatively limited confines of our personalities. It's probably less conviction than necessity. This is the right solution for Zinger because it's effectively the only one given the way he perceives his world. It's not heroic, it's not anti-heroic, it just is.