To bust or not to bust

[Bigdaddyt]

Zinger,a polygraph is only a tool to aid in getting the truth. They are not 100%accurrate do not base your decision on the results. Always go with the facts and your gut.Especially your gut it is usually always right. Our brains are like a super computer and we absorb all data and store it until the right word or action puts it together for us.

[eric1]

The translation is that the inconclusive test came up more or less inconclusive, except for confirming what Zing already knew - the dirtbag fled for the hills when his easy lay/easy money became not easy.

 

Sorry Zinger, I know these things are inconclusive but I was sincerely hoping for some closure for you.

[TobyBoy]

Baseline questions inconclusive? How so?

 

Baseline questions are questions that are known "truths". Like...your name, your place of birth, your age ..etc. These questions give the polygrapher a "baseline" of "truths" to compare to real "unknown truths" questions. In other words, they shouldn't be inconclusive....... Unless.....she medicated herself before the test, which is a common tactic for those being examined.

[zinger]

So "physical agents" means sex?

 

Physical aspect. My typing on Swype keyboard isn't the best.

[m.snow]

so she is still seeing om!, from what i take on the 1st question.

 

well its time to leave. clean break. travel go to america and start a new life!

[zinger]

Basically that is what has been explained to me in a follow up.

They started the test with the baseline asking deliberately true and false questions. She got extremely upset, panicked and emotional at this stage so all parameters (cardio, galvanic, brain, etc) went almost off charts giving inconclusive readings to some of the baseline questions (they had to ask extra, they can't restart the test).

Then she calmed down so when it came to the first actual part her answers to questions like had she had any contact with om after that day, was she going to leave her husband, does she want to be married to her husband (my digest, not exact questions) her answers (positive, e.g. No, No, Yes) were interpreteded as truth.

With the final - hardest - questions (did she sleep with him, etc) she went panicked again so considering the baseline answers results were interpreted as inconclusive. E.g. they can't tell of she was lying or not.

So this is where I am. Getting sick from all this nonsense. Take it for what it worth.

[bigman1]

Extreme emotional outbursts can affect the test. It's the operator's job to interpretation. From the history and the fact that she knew the test was coming, it sounds like she panicked. The question is why? Relief at showing you the truth would not cause panic. Fear of you finding out would. Fear of failing could too, but usually those who plan to pass don't freak out. How often did she freak out in the past under stress? How about during this so called affair?

It's not like this was sprung on her. Either retesting or you gotta go with what you know.

[eric1]

You're in a weird quasi stage right now. You are, emotionally, a lot like me I think. One of your next stages is going to be complete disdain and disgust. I suggest that you get out of the house (or her, whatever) soon.

 

Your decision is made, the poly is done and the next step is waiting. I can promise you, only negative things will come as a result of staying. She betrayed you. Whatever she has done she deserves to be treated respectfully and sometime over the next month that will become VERY hard for you.

 

Like "I can't even stand to look at you" disdain.

 

You may have already hit this stage, dunno

[Poutrew]

I'd interpret the panic as a valid response. Either she has seen the OM since the bust, or she *wants* to see the OM very badly. Same for the sex answer, either she has had sex with him, or she *wants* to have the OM inside her again. Really, considering the context, I'd say the test was spot on, and gave answers good enough for a D. If she were my wife, the last expensive gift I'd get her after the D would be a paint by numbers set. Personally, I'd never be able to look at the Mona Lisa the same way again...

[BetrayedH]

Extreme emotional outbursts can affect the test. It's the operator's job to interpretation. From the history and the fact that she knew the test was coming, it sounds like she panicked. The question is why? Relief at showing you the truth would not cause panic. Fear of you finding out would. Fear of failing could too, but usually those who plan to pass don't freak out. How often did she freak out in the past under stress? How about during this so called affair?

It's not like this was sprung on her. Either retesting or you gotta go with what you know.

 

She's hit the panic button numerous times during this whole escapade as I recall. Considering the importance of the test (her whole marriage depended upon her passing), I can see her freaking out a bit.

 

But it could also be manipulation. Being anxious during the control questions is the perfect way to appear calm during lies. If she was guilty, she managed to get the test to come back as inconclusive rather than indicating deception. Now she'll be able to claim that she's done everything Zinger asked, including a poly.

 

Zinger, I think you're reaching the point that many of us eventually had to face - you're probably never really going to know the truth. Sometimes you get a chance at knowing it all (or most of it) before the confrontation. But once the confrontation happens, the obfuscation begins.

 

So, accepting that you've never really know what's happened here, what do you want to do?

[Clay]

OP, I am really sorry your going through this. Just reading this is hard for me. I can't even imagine the pain your feeling. I seriously don't know how you would interrupt the part of her getting seriously upset when they asked if they were physical. I kind of would lean that way because why else would she be so upset. People don't show those kinds of emotions when they know the truth and they are comfortable stating the truth. It sound more like she is doing her best to hide the fact she did so she doesn't loose you.

 

I agree with Betrayed that your probably never really going to know what happened. I was actually thinking about this myself this morning. I will never have any kind of closer with my xW. I will always wonder how many times she stepped out on me and what she did when she did. It was always a game for her to keep things leaning her way.

 

I think for me if I ever have to go through this again I have some of the strength and resolve you and a few others have shown. I did read SpaceGhost thread and its exactly like eric said. That guy was on point the whole way. I find myself seriously aligned with his thinking. I never had proof my xW slept with anyone but if I had I would have never waited as long as I did.

 

I hope you can get away this weekend any take your mind off all this pain and do something for you.

 

C

[autumnnight]

It sounds like she worked herself into an emotional frenzy thinking that if she was all over the place on ALL the questions she would pass. Not good.

[Friskyone4u]

Zinger,

 

You can believe whatever you want to. Personally, i do not understand why the examiner did not stop the thingand tell you what she was doing and what it would likely cause. but that is neither here nor there.

 

the fact is on every question that would have made her look bad, she got upset and hysterical. Now what does that suggest????

 

People get convicted of murder on circumstantial evidence every day. you are not in a court of law so you do not need a smoking gun. You have enough circumstantial evidence to not believe for a minute this was not a full blown affair. if someone is telling the truth why on earth would they get hysterical on only those questions.

 

you are divorcing her. Good choice.

[No Limit]

Why aren't her reactions counting as answers? If she panics because she's nervous, shouldn't that already be enough of an answer? It's like you ask a drug addict if he's ever taken drugs, maybe even show it to him and hold it right in front of his face and him saying "No" while getting symptoms of drug withdrawal - it's in a liar's whole expression, not on their lips.

[66Charger]

Inconclusive IS a answer and that answer is not truth.

[autumnnight]

Why aren't her reactions counting as answers? If she panics because she's nervous, shouldn't that already be enough of an answer? It's like you ask a drug addict if he's ever taken drugs, maybe even show it to him and hold it right in front of his face and him saying "No" while getting symptoms of drug withdrawal - it's in a liar's whole expression, not on their lips.

 

I agree in principle, but that is not how the test works.

[SpokenFor]

Hi Zinger,

 

I think you've done a few really good things and should now relax -- you aren't going to get more facts, and you can take the time to step back and think about things.

 

Here's what I think, for what it's worth:

 

First, your wife is genuinely remorseful and dedicated to finding a new relationship with you. She loves and values you very much. Her signing the papers and going through the polygraph show that.

 

That doesn't mean the old marriage isn't destroyed; it is. You get to decide if you want a new marriage with her. As for divorce versus reconciliation, whatever, for me that's paperwork. You have her signature, the process is certain, and you can pause it while you decide.

 

Second, I really feel that your return from your trip early was the "slap" she needed to understand the enormity of her error. I continue to believe that she was breaking it off, and I am strongly inclined to believe that they did not have sex, although he may have stolen a kiss or two. I believe they were still meeting in public places; a lover's gift would have been given to him in a bedroom, not a cafe. I believe her guilt over this clouded the polygraph but that there was no final step from her over the precipice.

 

She had made this huge mistake and only your actions saved her from continuing. You have put yourself in the position of control and can decide how to proceed. If you need distance and time to decide, take it. If you believe your wife has no more value in your life, that is a reasonable decision. If you think she must go with you to another place and start another marriage, that again can be your call. The only decision you cannot make is the one to turn back time, unfortunately!

 

Lastly, I think it is very important in situations like this not to get caught up in recent declarations you have made to her or to yourself about what you would or would not do. This is the emotional part: you can change your decision at any point until you make it and act on it.

 

You have done a great job of putting yourself in this position through a very difficult time. I wish you the best of luck in finding the tranquility to make the decisions based on what will bring you happiness in life going forward.

[zinger]

.

 

So, accepting that you've never really know what's happened here, what do you want to do?

 

What I want to do and what I have to do is two entirely different concepts. I want my old live and marriage back (sounds as pathetic as that oil spill CEO). I have to do what I've been doing e.g. divorce and separate as even the most advanced and reputable technology available can't give me the "anchor" to stay.

 

Which is a shame as she went with the test after all and I've recently seen a lot of true remorse and realisation of what has she done.

 

I asked about the panic attack during the test. She told me that first when they started the procedure which was very bureaucratic almost robotic, she had a moment of realisation that her marriage that was a "given" party of her reality all these years is hanging on a thin thread and these people who don't really care and has seen it all have the scissors. And first time in all these years I'm not there supporting her.

 

Later when they started asking questions about her being intimate with someone else she felt totally humiliated and wanted to just stand up and walk out. Then she realised that she deserved it and again panicked that a small spike on the chart will be the end of it.

[TobyBoy]

What I want to do and what I have to do is two entirely different concepts. I want my old live and marriage back (sounds as pathetic as that oil spill CEO). I have to do what I've been doing e.g. divorce and separate as even the most advanced and reputable technology available can't give me the "anchor" to stay.

 

Which is a shame as she went with the test after all and I've recently seen a lot of true remorse and realisation of what has she done.

 

I asked about the panic attack during the test. She told me that first when they started the procedure which was very bureaucratic almost robotic, she had a moment of realisation that her marriage that was a "given" party of her reality all these years is hanging on a thin thread and these people who don't really care and has seen it all have the scissors. And first time in all these years I'm not there supporting her.

 

Later when they started asking questions about her being intimate with someone else she felt totally humiliated and wanted to just stand up and walk out. Then she realised that she deserved it and again panicked that a small spike on the chart will be the end of it.

All about how SHE feels, nothing about what YOU must be feeling!!!

This is REGRET not true REMORSE!!! Big ****ING Difference!!!

[fellini]

Before someone suggests you do another poly to determine the truthfulness of her interpretations of her panic attacks, let me suggest that

 

1. You are on opposite sides of the coin with respect to a machine: you wanting it to tell you something concrete, and she afraid it will but be it her in error or reveal a truth she does not want.

 

2. There is another truth, without machines. And that truth is in you very post.

 

The problem is not the machine, the problem is both of you have brought yourselves into this place that now appears to be completely the opposite of what both of you want.

 

What is missing is an element of faith, personal vision, and letting go. And i dont mean letting go of the infidelity, i mean the act of letting go of whatever it is that is draging this relationship through uncertainty. No machine is going to help you going forward. You have more doubts and a bigger puzzle than before. Make a leap, either way, and see what happens. You are putting your entire marriage on a piece of a puzzle. By your own thoughts, you are dismissing what is good because you can't grasp something that is not.

 

It is up to you to decide if these good things are sufficient to keep alive your relationship, so that you might work on what is bad, either in divorce or not, or to continue to make this infidelity the entire story of your marriage and just walk away. You ought by now to see that mechanical steps are no longer available as a means to choosing, poly tests, divorce, these are exacerbating you efforts. Look inside not out, and do what you need to do.

 

 

 

What I want to do and what I have to do is two entirely different concepts. I want my old live and marriage back (sounds as pathetic as that oil spill CEO). I have to do what I've been doing e.g. divorce and separate as even the most advanced and reputable technology available can't give me the "anchor" to stay.

 

Which is a shame as she went with the test after all and I've recently seen a lot of true remorse and realisation of what has she done.

 

I asked about the panic attack during the test. She told me that first when they started the procedure which was very bureaucratic almost robotic, she had a moment of realisation that her marriage that was a "given" party of her reality all these years is hanging on a thin thread and these people who don't really care and has seen it all have the scissors. And first time in all these years I'm not there supporting her.

 

Later when they started asking questions about her being intimate with someone else she felt totally humiliated and wanted to just stand up and walk out. Then she realised that she deserved it and again panicked that a small spike on the chart will be the end of it.

[merrmeade]

What I want to do and what I have to do is two entirely different concepts. I want my old live and marriage back (sounds as pathetic as that oil spill CEO). I have to do what I've been doing e.g. divorce and separate as even the most advanced and reputable technology available can't give me the "anchor" to stay.

 

Which is a shame as she went with the test after all and I've recently seen a lot of true remorse and realisation of what has she done.

 

I asked about the panic attack during the test. She told me that first when they started the procedure which was very bureaucratic almost robotic, she had a moment of realisation that her marriage that was a "given" party of her reality all these years is hanging on a thin thread and these people who don't really care and has seen it all have the scissors. And first time in all these years I'm not there supporting her.

 

Later when they started asking questions about her being intimate with someone else she felt totally humiliated and wanted to just stand up and walk out. Then she realised that she deserved it and again panicked that a small spike on the chart will be the end of it.

Wow, oh, wow, zinger. Thank you so much for explaining that. Your explanation is so clear and makes so much sense. It's a great slice of WS thinking but also a clear sign that she's BEGINNING to understand things. The really moving part for me is

... she felt totally humiliated and wanted to just stand up and walk out. Then she realised that she deserved it ...

That's it in nutshell. I think this is where growth from remorse begins. This kind of explanation comes out of my WH occasionally and is why I stay. It's certainly not enough and is truly only a beginning. But it shows complexity and reflection, honesty and a willingness to bare her thoughts and feelings. This is a lot. I believe her.

 

I'm glad that you've shared this development in such clear detail with us and glad that finally there is some evidence of hope in this situation. I am also glad that - for whatever reason - you took a 'hard line' which clearly helped push her to this moment of truth. I think you got better than the stupid poly operator's report in that detailed explanation from her. I don't think even the most conniving and devious WS could have faked the reactions and invented the responses so well. I see no reason to doubt that she's trying to be transparent.

 

[This also give me an excuse to thread-jack a tiny, tiny second and say three things: (1) Again, I'm sorry, zinger and everyone, for slamming one of zinger's most empathic and involved mentors on the thread this morning (since was removed). (2) Insight from Moderation was helpful in realizing we are all emotionally involved in outcomes here. (3) And, therefore, it's really important to take the time to post what you really think rather than criticizing someone else's advice.]

 

Maybe it's too soon, but I have a feeling. Your report, zinger, coming right after SpokenFor's tempered entreaty to give your wife's remorse some credibility felt like a lovely sunrise at the end of an exhausting, terrible night.

[m.snow]

What I want to do and what I have to do is two entirely different concepts. I want my old live and marriage back. I have to do what I've been doing e.g. divorce and separate as even the most advanced and reputable technology available can't give me the "anchor" to stay.

 

there is always uncertainties in life. things we cant control. if you take her back and go with her to america. there is no certainty that she would or would not cheat again.

 

the future with her is unknown, logic would dictate to leave her and find a more honesty woman.

 

truth be told the past can never repeated because the things that made it also led to its down fall.

 

the future will be different. but that doesn't mean it wont be as wonderful.

 

but ask yourself what you truly want. so when you look back there was never a shred of regret because it was your choice.

 

life is full of uncertainties. why not?

[66Charger]

So, exactly where are things ,months down the line? The same as they were after DDay. The fact is, you still don't know about the PA and you probably never will unless you chase down the OM.

 

At this point, you either believe all off your wife's explanations or you don't. Clearly you are not looking for a reason to leave, you already have that. You are looking for a reason to stay. A reason to change your mind.

 

Your answer may lie in your original statements. Divorce and work on a new ,marriage for EA, Divorce and delete for a PA. The only facts are the EA.

 

You still love her. A lot. No problem. Free her and free yourself from this old damaged marriage. You can date/marry her again if you BOTH desire.* It is important to let her know that a new marriage can not be based on lies. If she can put on a new wedding ring, knowing that she lied to get it, then let her conscious tear her apart.

 

Accept what you know and don't know and decide a direction, not necessarily a future.

Time will answer that part.

Edited July 25, 2015 by 66Charger

[singer23]

Zinger, give her an incentive to come clean. Confessing is a loss loss scenario for her.

 

Maybe she is one of those women that will lie until death out of shame. You might have to accept that you wll never get the truth of this situation.

[sandylee1]

Zinger,

 

Hope you're bearing up.

 

I'm just catching up on the poly results. Your wife has had ample time to read up on how to throw the readings of a poly off and I'm of the view that she did just that.

 

By getting hysterical during the baseline questions, it throws the examiner off, so if her answer to the question "is your name Mrs. Zinger " is inconclusive , then if the response to "did you have sexual intercourse with OM" is also inconclusive , it would put doubt in your mind/the examiner's mind on whether inconclusive is her truth.

 

But on the questions she could be absolute truthful about...like have you seen OM since etc., she was calm enough to answer honestly. Is the result of all the questions was inconclusive , it would be quite different.

 

The OM didn't slip out of the back door because of a motherly hug or because he had some paint bought for him.

 

The bottom line in many ways , is that her actions have caused you not to trust her. Whether she slept with him or not, you cannot believe what she says. Without any kids it's a lot easier for you to call time and end it.

 

She must regret not ending this when you told her you would divorce if she cheated. Looking on the numerous forums, I'm suprised the number of men who are so readily willing to reconcile TBH. She banked on you being one of them. Bad call on her part.