To bust or not to bust

[kgcolonel]

Zinger, I have been following you throughout this post. My heart goes out to you. I would be exactly where you are in leaning to divorce (probably running and not as patient as you though) if we were to exchange places. The betrayal you feel and have experienced is second to none that I can imagine. That being said....in your last post I see true love and a longing for a rational justification to work on this relationship. I also see the purpose to "end the previous M and see about a new R". I would hope that someone would suggest to me to communicate this to me. That I would tell my WS that I do want the D to be viewed as an end of what was but the opportunity to build a new relationship. To have a long and open discussion of what we both want and to agree pre-D that we would work to see where we could build a new R and possibly a new M. I just read another post "Did I really deserve this much punishment" and it could be both of you later however if I read your last post correctly, you want the wife you thought you had back when and she desparately wants you for life. She messed up royally and no one could blame you for ending the relationship except for you later in life.....I heard you say that you want the answers and whether or not it went PA she did betray you....

 

 

I also hear pride talking.....one question I would hope I had someone pose to me to weigh the value of listening to my pride or saving the potential love of my life. I hope this makes sense.

[merrmeade]

Zinger,

 

Hope you're bearing up.

 

I'm just catching up on the poly results. Your wife has had ample time to read up on how to throw the readings of a poly off and I'm of the view that she did just that.

 

By getting hysterical during the baseline questions, it throws the examiner off, so if her answer to the question "is your name Mrs. Zinger " is inconclusive , then if the response to "did you have sexual intercourse with OM" is also inconclusive , it would put doubt in your mind/the examiner's mind on whether inconclusive is her truth.

 

But on the questions she could be absolute truthful about...like have you seen OM since etc., she was calm enough to answer honestly. Is the result of all the questions was inconclusive , it would be quite different.

 

The OM didn't slip out of the back door because of a motherly hug or because he had some paint bought for him.

 

The bottom line in many ways , is that her actions have caused you not to trust her. Whether she slept with him or not, you cannot believe what she says. Without any kids it's a lot easier for you to call time and end it.

 

She must regret not ending this when you told her you would divorce if she cheated. Looking on the numerous forums, I'm suprised the number of men who are so readily willing to reconcile TBH. She banked on you being one of them. Bad call on her part.

Okay, okay. All possible. But what you're accusing her of is quite sophisticated. Not only that, the scenario you describe could only be planned and executed by someone cunning, manipulative, and highly skilled and controlled with her affect.

 

Now, for zinger to believe this, he must establish verisimilitude within his own experience and knowledge of his wife's personality and mental profile. We'll leave out character and moral compass for now. Granted, he missed a lot, but this is way above hiding text messages and lying about where she's going. Is she is capable of staging such a maneuver? Does she have the ability to strategize and bring off such an act? Has he known her to alter her behavior successfully in the past with the intention of producing or preventing a certain reaction in others?

 

But even if zinger hasn't seen this potential in her before, people do develop heightened abilities in trying circumstances. Maybe fear of exposure, failure, loss could do that. And cheaters can minimize the immorality of such actions with all kinds of rationalizations, the favorite being that it will hurt the spouse so deeply. But could she be that good that quickly?

 

I know all this is possible. Remember my husband was a serial cheater and practiced liar who never saw or sees himself that way. Like nearly all cheaters, he invented reasons, excuses, mitigating circumstances, etc. why he was so stupid, vulnerable (his words), etc. Over the 3 years since d-day, I've examined carefully the gaslighting, minimizing, rug-sweeping and, later, trickle-truthing and identified and articulated to him exactly what he did when he lied, physically and verbally. He wasn't good at it; I was just that trusting and unable to see treachery. Obviously, he couldn't do it any more after that.

 

My point is that if a veteran is so bad at it, how could a newbie like zinger's wife be so good at it? Not only that, how could she be that successful in a situation where everyone is watching and expecting the possibility of deceit?

Edited July 25, 2015 by merrmeade

[BetrayedH]

Okay, okay. All possible. But what you're accusing her of is quite sophisticated. Not only that, the scenario you describe could only be planned and executed by someone cunning, manipulative, and highly skilled and controlled with her affect.

 

Now, for zinger to believe this, he must establish verisimilitude within his own experience and knowledge of his wife's personality and mental profile. We'll leave out character and moral compass for now. Granted, he missed a lot, but this is way above hiding text messages and lying about where she's going. Is she is capable of staging such a maneuver? Does she have the ability to strategize and bring off such an act? Has he known her to alter her behavior successfully in the past with the intention of producing or preventing a certain reaction in others?

 

But even if zinger hasn't seen this potential in her before, people do develop heightened abilities in trying circumstances. Fear of exposure, failure, loss can do that. And cheaters can minimize the immorality of such actions with all kinds of rationalizations. Of course, the favorite is that it will hurt the spouse so deeply. I know all this is possible. Remember my husband was a serial cheater and practiced liar who never saw or sees himself that way. Like nearly all cheaters, he invented reasons, excuses, mitigating circumstances, etc. why he was so stupid, vulnerable (his words), etc. Over the 3 years since d-day, I've examined carefully the gaslighting, minimizing, rug-sweeping and, later, trickle-truthing and realized he wasn't good at it; I was just that trusting and unable to see treachery. When I was finally able to call him on it, he couldn't do it any more.

 

My point is that if a veteran is so bad at it, how could a newbie like zinger's wife be so good at it?

 

With due respect, MM, I don't think it's all that cunning to decide to foul up the test by being emotional during the easy questions. I don't think it would take but 15 minutes of reading on polygraphs to realize that they're all based on emotional/physiological reactions and that by being all emotional during weird times, it would skew the results. But maybe I'm reaching.

 

What I don't think Zinger can claim is that she's been showing "true remorse." That all depends on whether or not she's still lying and that is an unknown.

 

I thought my wife was truly remorseful, especially when she cried, said that I knew everything there was to know, and that she'd never lie to me again. She did that more than once; it was very convincing and exactly what I wanted to hear. But, it was a lie and then I found more lies.

 

Even if it were discovered that it was actually a PA, the typical wayward response is to say that they didn't want to hurt you and were afraid that if you knew the truth, you'd leave them for sure. It happens time and time again. All we really know here is that Zinger's wife has established herself as a liar, conducting an affair, and has some real regret over being caught.

[merrmeade]

... [This also give me an excuse to thread-jack a tiny, tiny second and say three things: (1) Again, I'm sorry, zinger and everyone, for slamming one of zinger's most empathic and involved mentors on the thread this morning (since was removed). ...]

Clarification #1196 (bold above): The post was removed (not the poster).

[merrmeade]

With due respect, MM, I don't think it's all that cunning to decide to foul up the test by being emotional during the easy questions. I don't think it would take but 15 minutes of reading on polygraphs to realize that they're all based on emotional/physiological reactions and that by being all emotional during weird times, it would skew the results. But maybe I'm reaching.

 

What I don't think Zinger can claim is that she's been showing "true remorse." That all depends on whether or not she's still lying and that is an unknown.

 

I thought my wife was truly remorseful, especially when she cried, said that I knew everything there was to know, and that she'd never lie to me again. She did that more than once; it was very convincing and exactly what I wanted to hear. But, it was a lie and then I found more lies.

 

Even if it were discovered that it was actually a PA, the typical wayward response is to say that they didn't want to hurt you and were afraid that if you knew the truth, you'd leave them for sure. It happens time and time again. All we really know here is that Zinger's wife has established herself as a liar, conducting an affair, and has some real regret over being caught.

I do see this point.

 

But what I don't accept is (a) that she could have gotten this good, this manipulative, this dirty that zinger never saw it in her before and (b) the complexity of her self-examination:

... she had a moment of realisation that her marriage that was a "given" party of her reality all these years is hanging on a thin thread and these people who don't really care and has seen it all have the scissors. And first time in all these years I'm not there supporting her.

What caught me more than anything actually was this:

All about how SHE feels, nothing about what YOU must be feeling!!!

This is REGRET not true REMORSE!!! Big ****ING Difference!!!

He's right. The real line in the sand between remorseful reconcilers and regretful liars caught red-handed is that the former are brought to their knees by their partners' pain. It's stronger than the pain of their shame.

[eric1]

I don't think that the rest proves much beyond what zinger already knew and suspected. We all now know the downsides of poly tests and their tendency to be inconclusive is the biggest drawback.

 

He didn't get any parking lot confessions, which is the positive that I would take away.

[merrmeade]

With due respect, MM, I don't think it's all that cunning to decide to foul up the test by being emotional during the easy questions. I don't think it would take but 15 minutes of reading on polygraphs to realize that they're all based on emotional/physiological reactions and that by being all emotional during weird times, it would skew the results. But maybe I'm reaching.

What I'

m

questioning is whether she could be that good a liar — as good as your wife and my husband were. She was only into this

EA

for a few months.

So

let's look at each plea she made ...

1- she realized that the poly staff - who don't really care one way or the other - controlled the survival of her marriage, "the 'given' part of her reality all these years ..." and

2- for the first time zinger wasn't there supporting her.

 

#1 is believable and valid to me.

 

#2 maybe I give you as manipulation. I think #2 is totally meant to make zinger feel responsible and protective toward her, guilty for putting her in this position maybe. It does prove that she knows how to push buttons - zinger's. Important trait for a liar.

 

What I don't think Zinger can claim is that she's been showing "true remorse."

HOW do you know what she's been showing,

bh

? There have been DAYS, maybe a couple of weeks, that we got no details about what exactly they said to each other.

That all depends on whether or not she's still lying and that is an unknown.

...

Even if it were discovered that it was actually a PA, the typical wayward response is to say that they didn't want to hurt you and were afraid that if you knew the truth, you'd leave them for sure. It happens time and time again. All we really know here is that Zinger's wife has established herself as a liar, conducting an affair, and has some real regret over being caught.

And with all due respect, bh, I also addressed that WSs justify their actions on the bullsh-t basis of avoiding hurt and upheaval for others. That's the rationalization they give themselves. The motive is also not in question. It's the personality, skill, intelligence of Mrs. zinger to bring off this scenario that I question.

 

Furthermore, we're out here dissecting and giving opinions on discrete points of information taken out of a context and life. Only someone who knows the people and has the objectivity to judge can say. That's nobody.

[BetrayedH]

And with all due respect, bh, I also addressed that WSs justify their actions on the bullsh-t basis of avoiding hurt and upheaval for others. That's the rationalization they give themselves. The motive is also not in question. It's the personality, skill, intelligence of Mrs. zinger to bring off this scenario that I question.

 

Furthermore, we're out here dissecting and giving opinions on discrete points of information taken out of a context and life. Only someone who knows the people and has the objectivity to judge can say. That's nobody.

 

Fair enough. I agree that we don't know about Zinger's wife's skills and abilities as a liar. What we do know is that she has a propensity to try it.

 

How do I know if she's demonstrating true remorse or not? I don't. I'm not claiming to be clairvoyant. And I didn't make any claim about whether she is truly remorseful or not. It's Zinger himself that said she's been truly remorseful. I simply pointed out that he can't know that because he doesn't know if she's still lying or not. If she's still lying (a possibility, no?) then she's not truly remorseful but just feigning the remorse in an attempt to do damage control and to manage her husband.

 

I think the challenge here is that I wouldn't be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. She had the benefit of the doubt before the affair. But now we know she is perfectly willing to lie to her husband's face and conduct an affair behind his back. He had "faith" in her before the affair. He probably had blind trust in her. Now the default position, considering her untrustworthy behavior, should be that she can't be trusted. She can thank herself for that.

 

So, is the onus on Zinger to prove that she's guilty? Why would it be? She's proven that she'll conduct an affair and lie. Would I believe her if there was proof that she's being truthful now? Sure. But alas, all of her exculpatory messages are deleted. And the polygraph that could 'prove' she was being truthful? Ah shucks, she had a breakdown. So I guess she's ruined all the chances to prove herself innocent and Zinger will just have to believe her. Not in my book. The onus is on her. Having a tough time proving her innocence? Golly gee. Guess you shouldn't have lied to your spouse. Guess you shouldn't have cheated on your spouse. Guess you shouldn't have deleted all of your messages. Guess you should have taken the polygraph test seriously. Because now, nobody believes a f*cking word out of your stupid mouth.

 

For what it's worth, MM, I know you're not making a judgment one way or another. And that seems like a reasonable position. For lack of a better way of saying it, you seem ok with riding the "we just don't know" fence. In my book, "we just don't know" equals "safest bet is to assume she's lying and cheating" and she can thank her own lying and cheating behaviors for that assumption.

[merrmeade]

For what it's worth, MM, I know you're not making a judgment one way or another. And that seems like a reasonable position. For lack of a better way of saying it, you seem ok with riding the "we just don't know" fence. In my book, "we just don't know" equals "safest bet is to assume she's lying and cheating" and she can thank her own lying and cheating behaviors for that assumption.

Damn, that's good, bh.

[BetrayedH]

Damn, that's good, bh.

 

Well, I'm just sick and tired of seeing BSs feeling responsible for figuring out WTF happened and WTF to do about it. In this situation, the family just wants Zinger to accept this and move on. Well, what exactly is he being asked to accept? An EA? Just take her good word for it? Why exactly would she get the benefit of the doubt? Faith? Blind trust? How did that work out the first time?

[drifter777]

Back posting on this thread - can't help myself

 

zinger - your WW knows that if you find out about any sex, it's over. Period. If she did screw him, her only play here is to deny, deny, deny. If OM confesses that they had sex she will deny. If the poly would have concluded that she had sex she would deny. She knows that no photo's exist so the only way you can know for sure is if it comes out of her mouth. There's nothing you can do - she'll take the truth to her grave.

 

With no children involved I will once again urge you to stop all this nonsense and walk away. Stop putting yourself through all this pain and drama. Move on with your life.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Zinger, I have been following you throughout this post. My heart goes out to you. I would be exactly where you are in leaning to divorce (probably running and not as patient as you though) if we were to exchange places. The betrayal you feel and have experienced is second to none that I can imagine. That being said....in your last post I see true love and a longing for a rational justification to work on this relationship. I also see the purpose to "end the previous M and see about a new R". I would hope that someone would suggest to me to communicate this to me. That I would tell my WS that I do want the D to be viewed as an end of what was but the opportunity to build a new relationship. To have a long and open discussion of what we both want and to agree pre-D that we would work to see where we could build a new R and possibly a new M. I just read another post "Did I really deserve this much punishment" and it could be both of you later however if I read your last post correctly, you want the wife you thought you had back when and she desparately wants you for life. She messed up royally and no one could blame you for ending the relationship except for you later in life.....I heard you say that you want the answers and whether or not it went PA she did betray you....

 

 

I also hear pride talking.....one question I would hope I had someone pose to me to weigh the value of listening to my pride or saving the potential love of my life. I hope this makes sense.

 

Zinger, read and reread the above. I've lived long enough to see this scenario played out more than once and the above is very wise advice.

 

Don't let this go unnoticed as it's one of the wisest posts on this thread, if not the wisest.

 

Don't let your pride get in the way of your life. This is not to condone what your WW has done or even to suggest you sweep it under the rug. It is to encourage you to deal with it in a way that will bring you peace, happiness and love in the future.

[eric1]

Zing,

 

You were doing her a favor by giving her the opportunity to come clean on a poly. She failed that by being emotional. Sucks, but she went up to the plate and did not get a hit.

 

Given that the burden of proof is on her what material ways is she suggesting that she did not have a PA? All 'discoveries' thus far, to my knowledge, have been due to your sleuthing. Surely there is something that you've missed. A missed email, phone call, meeting in public that can be corroborated. Something.

[fellini]

Right, he can keep digging. Digging digging digging. Until one day his wife will look down upon him from above this huge hole he has created and say, "That hole you have created, is it just for you? for the both of us? how many more people do you wish to fit in there with you."

 

 

 

Zing,

 

You were doing her a favor by giving her the opportunity to come clean on a poly. She failed that by being emotional. Sucks, but she went up to the plate and did not get a hit.

 

Given that the burden of proof is on her what material ways is she suggesting that she did not have a PA? All 'discoveries' thus far, to my knowledge, have been due to your sleuthing. Surely there is something that you've missed. A missed email, phone call, meeting in public that can be corroborated. Something.

[zinger]

A lot of great posts - I need time to read and read many of them and even more time to respond. I'm not very good with words (obviously) so it is hard for me to express how stunned (positively) and touched I am and how many of these posts are so timely and helpful.

 

In a nutshell. ToyBoy, while I do not disagree with your remorse vs regret assessment, realistically she'd need to be a saint to think about me and the impact on me only sitting in this chair. And she's no saint. At least she was truthful (seemed to be). I would but belIeve her if she would so selfish-lessly be thinking about yours truly only.

 

Anyway I get plenty of that - "oh my god what have I done to you"' outside of the context of the test. At times I feel this is going the right way, at times all I can think about is "then why the hell you couldn't think about it before". Honestly she is constantly trying everything a man in my position can imagine to convince me she loves me. You just name it. My biggest damned issue is that I don't feel its enough.

 

I don't think she'd be such a good liar and manipulator to prep herself for the test like some of you are suggesting. I wouldn't say "out of a character" - can't assert this these days, bit I'd say totally out of her league. After all she's is not a Cia (otherwise iI'd never discover the affair ) . But I will check there is no box with handgun, cash and 5 passports wth different names under the parquet just in case.

 

Finally (for this post). Spoken For , your post is seriously great, and what you suggest had happened is really close to her explanation of events. E.g. slap in a face and all. When i red it, overlayed with her story and my discovery it looked very plausible and I did feel better for a little while. Then I thought "ok, even if this is truth and nothing but truth, how far would it go if I didn't stop her"? And I went back to square one.

 

Ok, enough for one post. Thank your all once again.

[zinger]

Zing,

 

You were doing her a favor by giving her the opportunity to come clean on a poly. She failed that by being emotional. Sucks, but she went up to the plate and did not get a hit.

 

Given that the burden of proof is on her what material ways is she suggesting that she did not have a PA? All 'discoveries' thus far, to my knowledge, have been due to your sleuthing. Surely there is something that you've missed. A missed email, phone call, meeting in public that can be corroborated. Something.

 

What can I say? Your are right.

[eric1]

I guess I'm saying that because I'm kind of rooting for her to pull something out of her sleeve at this point. This is probably the most difficult 'story' that I've followed.

 

I mean, these ******* artist probably didn't delete anything. You'd think at some point she would have suggested proving herself that way. (Pre-disappearance of course).

 

Dunno, I'm babbling at this point.

[Furious]

A lot of great posts - I need time to read and read many of them and even more time to respond. I'm not very good with words (obviously) so it is hard for me to express how stunned (positively) and touched I am and how many of these posts are so timely and helpful.

 

In a nutshell. ToyBoy, while I do not disagree with your remorse vs regret assessment, realistically she'd need to be a saint to think about me and the impact on me only sitting in this chair. And she's no saint. At least she was truthful (seemed to be). I would but belIeve her if she would so selfish-lessly be thinking about yours truly only.

 

Anyway I get plenty of that - "oh my god what have I done to you"' outside of the context of the test. At times I feel this is going the right way, at times all I can think about is "then why the hell you couldn't think about it before". Honestly she is constantly trying everything a man in my position can imagine to convince me she loves me. You just name it. My biggest damned issue is that I don't feel its enough.

 

I don't think she'd be such a good liar and manipulator to prep herself for the test like some of you are suggesting. I wouldn't say "out of a character" - can't assert this these days, bit I'd say totally out of her league. After all she's is not a Cia (otherwise iI'd never discover the affair ) . But I will check there is no box with handgun, cash and 5 passports wth different names under the parquet just in case.

 

Finally (for this post). Spoken For , your post is seriously great, and what you suggest had happened is really close to her explanation of events. E.g. slap in a face and all. When i red it, overlayed with her story and my discovery it looked very plausible and I did feel better for a little while. Then I thought "ok, even if this is truth and nothing but truth, how far would it go if I didn't stop her"? And I went back to square one.

 

Ok, enough for one post. Thank your all once again.

 

Emotion and facts are extremely difficult to separate when making a decision. Often this leads to more fact finding, like the polygraph experiment in hope of either supporting previous facts or dispelling them. It's an exercise that could be described as spinning in a circle.

 

Zinger, in your situation, as you say, "even if this was the truth, how far would it go if I didn't stop her? You know that answer, it would have escalated to a physical affair eventually. The foundation of an affair whether or not physical was an affair.

 

This was a "friend" your wife never once mentioned to you and that in itself is fact this was not a conventional friendship which included gifts and the OM expressing his attraction to your wife and gestures of affection from her. The fact that when caught she ran off when you were waiting by her car says it was more than what she'd ever admit too. Also, the OM ran away when you wanted to speak to him. You wife was even upset that this creep disappeared on her and that in itself is very telling.

 

You became the marriage police, and that useless polygraph was just another attempt to dispel what you know in your heart and mind. She's a liar, she can deceive you, she can cry on cue and pressure you to reconsider the betrayal she knowingly and enthusiastically conducted.

 

Only you know in your heart, if forgiveness is possible and if you are willing to give it the standard 2 to 5 years that reconciliation takes without guarantees as to it being a succesful reconciliation.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Furious
Cirection

[Friskyone4u]

Zinger,

 

The last post said it well. You know damm well that with just what you know firsthand that this affair would have gone totally physical (it most likely was already).

 

Think about how ludicrous her actions are for something just motherly or innocent. You really think if this was innocent she could not have produced communications proving that. Instead, she deleted everything. Now who the hell would do that. Then of course the reactions when caught.

 

And if this OM was just a poor artist she was trying to help, you really believe she would not have told him to come forward with everything to prove that.

 

If she was not banging this guy, she could have proved that ten times to you before any polygraph. She made no attempt to do anything but conceal and deny. You have found out nothing at all from hedr voluntarily in any attempt to save her marriage.

 

You are making a big mistake even thinking about later reconcilaition with this woman. You will be haunted for years wondering when she willl drop the news on you or if she will do it again.

 

She has made her bed, not just with the cheating, but with the behavior when caught. There is nothing she has done that shows any remorse at all. All regret her world has fallen apart.

[turnera]

fwiw, she could't 'think of this before' because humans are masters at subterfuge - even to ourselves. It's easy to compartmentalize and hide from ourselves our worst traits; in essence, that's exactly how affairs work, if you study the psychological steps involved in having an affair - it's a step by step justification for doing something horrid. So by the time she's HAD the affair, been caught, and moved on, that justification wall is good and tall and tight - no feelings getting through that thing.

 

For some people, seeing the spouse divorce is what breaks down that wall. For some, just being caught does it. For some, it's the polygraph. Something that hits you to the core, shakes you up, makes you question WHO YOU ARE. For her, it was the polygraph, sitting there, seeing that impersonal man, who KNEW what she'd done, and knew why she was sitting there - a huge wall of shame came tumbling down on top of her.

 

fwiw, this is the EXACT reason I always advise that the BS insist the the WS go to the parents and admit to their faces what they did. It's seeing that look on their face when you admit that you cheated on their child - it's something that hits you to the very core, that shame comes flooding in, and it's something you'll never forget and which very likely will keep you from ever cheating again.

[SpokenFor]

Hi Zinger,

 

I am glad my post was useful!

 

I completely agree that without your intervention she would have gone over the edge, and that you cannot be happy in a marriage where you have to worry about that in a realistic, constant way. That for me is the reason you will need to "end" the old marriage and start a new one if you choose that path. I can imagine that part of the pain you feel is that the old marriage was not at all bad and that there are many happy and fulfilling parts to that marriage. You need not forget or minimize those memories. It is simply that her big mistake put an end to that relationship, and your big success in stopping things opened the door to a possible new relationship.

 

I might suggest that you are on square one, not of the end of the old marriage, but on your decision process and possibly the path to a new marriage. With the divorce process under your control and the immediacy of what you needed to do gone, I hope you will be under a lot less stress. In some sense if you can live in the present with her you will always be at a "Square One"; I am sure you see the good in her and can judge over time whether that would be a good life for you.

 

On her side, she accepts that you have things in control and that you are inclined to give her a chance to prove that her love for you and desire to be your wife can be turned into a healthy new relationship. No promises or guarantees from you; just a chance. Perhaps she can focus on showing you what she learns about herself, her boundaries and insecurities, and how she intends to protect you and any future relationship. I would urge you to test her willingness to do this work on herself and to do so in a collaborative way with you.

 

As always, I hope you can relax and take your time with this decision. However you make it, wherever you must go to make it, I think you have done a marvelous job the last few months of understanding yourself and your needs while doing so in a way that respects the woman you love. Whatever you decide, I will believe that the decision was made in thoughtful and positive way, and I trust your judgment!

[sandylee1]

I think it's human nature to try and get yourself out of a bad situation and people do anything they can. When your life is hanging by a thread, you'll do anything, including how to pass a poly

It's been seen in the browser history of many a wayward spouse.

[merrmeade]

Hi Zinger,

 

I am glad my post was useful!

 

I completely agree that without your intervention she would have gone over the edge, and that you cannot be happy in a marriage where you have to worry about that in a realistic, constant way. That for me is the reason you will need to "end" the old marriage and start a new one if you choose that path. I can imagine that part of the pain you feel is that the old marriage was not at all bad and that there are many happy and fulfilling parts to that marriage. You need not forget or minimize those memories. It is simply that her big mistake put an end to that relationship, and your big success in stopping things opened the door to a possible new relationship.

 

I might suggest that you are on square one, not of the end of the old marriage, but on your decision process and possibly the path to a new marriage. With the divorce process under your control and the immediacy of what you needed to do gone, I hope you will be under a lot less stress. In some sense if you can live in the present with her you will always be at a "Square One"; I am sure you see the good in her and can judge over time whether that would be a good life for you.

 

On her side, she accepts that you have things in control and that you are inclined to give her a chance to prove that her love for you and desire to be your wife can be turned into a healthy new relationship. No promises or guarantees from you; just a chance. Perhaps she can focus on showing you what she learns about herself, her boundaries and insecurities, and how she intends to protect you and any future relationship. I would urge you to test her willingness to do this work on herself and to do so in a collaborative way with you.

 

As always, I hope you can relax and take your time with this decision. However you make it, wherever you must go to make it, I think you have done a marvelous job the last few months of understanding yourself and your needs while doing so in a way that respects the woman you love. Whatever you decide, I will believe that the decision was made in thoughtful and positive way, and I trust your judgment!

There been so many great posts on this thread! I really like your gentle approach, SpokenFor.

 

I would also hope that zinger understand that even if he did attempt reconciliation that she has tons of work to do to prove she can walk that new journey with him. Just realizing the horror of her actions during these weeks is the bare beginning. Divorce is easier. The reconciliation route means she is not off the hook; she is only just beginning. And the work you do is just as hard as the suffering now. I'm not sure it's worth it. It's very individual.

[66Charger]

I wonder about those that give reconciliation advice to Zinger, would give that same advice to a broken man, now or 8 months ago.

[SpokenFor]

Hey 66C,

 

I think the two situations are very different!! (But I certainly don't mind you asking...)

 

I would tell the broken man to leave and that's what I did myself long ago in a situation where I was not only very confident that there was a PA but also that it was a result of a very central part of my fWW's character, a part I had spent a decade trying to cater to and please without success.

 

Zinger's wife does NOT remind me of either my ex or the excrescence currently torturing that poor broken man. I think he should decide if all the reasons he loves her are worth giving her the time to prove herself going forward.