To bust or not to bust

[qubist]

qubist: The reason people will disagree with you is not necessarily because of your "always try to R" advice its that you always assume facts not in evidence. To suggest she is a victim of a predator is ludicrous. Even if it's true there is nothing to suggest that is the case. Serial cheater? zinger has no idea she hasn't cheated before. He is a good, trusting man who could easily be fooled by his wife.

 

If you read the thread you would know that zinger is a man of high moral character who has a reasonable expectation that his wife is not going to fu*k other men. The fact she lied, met him for lunch, caressed his face, gave him an expensive watch was enough to shatter him. Her reaction to being busted was a dead-giveaway that she was screwing him. Still, he wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt until the very end. He finally got enough information to bust her and she confirmed the truth. Who knows how this would have turned out if she had given up the truth as easily as giving up her pu**y.

 

zinger is crushed, shattered. He has chosen divorce as his path to recovery. After reading this whole thread to suggest a second chance for her is irrational. That's not him and he would be in agony if he tried to R for the sake of his family. They are both much, much better off divorcing and starting over.

Drifter777: I understand that infidelity is a huge red line for many people that once crossed there will be no going back, I also believe that this come from anger and for men the feeling of being beaten by a "compactor" is overwhelming. however, I personally do not see that way. this is a different topic which we can discuss in a different thread if you would like.

like i said If Zinger is deciding to leave and D he has every right to do so no one can blame him and he deserve the support of his family and we will definitely support him here in LS. I just think he is doing out of anger and feeling ashamed which he shouldn't. BTW R is not necessary a way to get back to his wife but it is just a process for him to get out of the pain and see all perspectives of the A he can still decide later to go for a D.

[qubist]

zinger is a man of principle. the kind of one time deal only. if he is your boss and you f up your fired.

no chance R was discussed since the beginning of this thread.

did you know zinger chased the OM?

imagine if zinger caught the OM. OM be swimming with the fishes by now.

if the wife f's up again. zinger might cross the line.

and wife might end up 6 feet below the ground.

so yeah divorce.

 

check zingers personality if it fits R, no kids after decade marriage & very distant with his own family.

his wife is closer to his family than he is. his wife brought him closer to his family. you gotta take something from that.

I have no doubt he is a man of principle and I respect him a lot. I followed his story since the initial post and know he went after the OM. and that's what's worrying me. hi is controlled by his anger and I hope he gets over that regardless if he stays with her or not

[zinger]

Please see my previous post. The issue is not my stubbornness and blind desire to keep my word. Let me put it in a different way:

 

I never hit a women let alone my wife - and never will (one if the posts here kind of suggested that, so I'd like to make it crystal clear). But I can be very calm, cold, spiteful and confrontational when angry and I'm very angry now. She's never been on the receiving end if this before. It takes me a lot of effort to control this right now.

 

Will she want to leave in that sort of hostile environment? I doubt that.

 

I have noticed that some posters here (judging by aliases) are ladIes. I'd really value their opinion here.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Deciding to divorce is not a black and white answer. Unless the marriage is a year or to old, no kids, no financial impact.

 

 

Zinger is not in the unless category.

 

 

Zinger has not related well with his family.

 

 

His WW has repaired that.

 

 

Outside of the affair he family sees that she has improved his life before the affair. They see her behavior post affair. They see her and him having a better marriage after recovery.

 

 

Zinger if he divorces throws away 15 years of his life.

 

 

 

 

Sadly some people here are so pro divorce they scream dump her without looking at the whole picture.

[Furious]

I have no doubt he is a man of principle and I respect him a lot. I followed his story since the initial post and know he went after the OM. and that's what's worrying me. hi is controlled by his anger and I hope he gets over that regardless if he stays with her or not

 

I think above is unfair.

 

My guess is that Zinger's hunch that the OM was a flakey coward was proved when he just wanted to talk to him face to face. The starving artist ran out the back door and zinger's intuition was spot on.

 

Since, Zinger had a PI, it would not be impossible to find the OM, if Zinger had wanted to confront him a second time, but Zinger chose not to, which seems to me he is not controlled by his anger, if anything Zinger has shown enormous restraint.

 

As to Zinger deciding to divorce, he seems to know himself well enough that he's not going to give his wife false hope and a false reconciliation when he knows it's not authentic in his heart.

 

What struck out, is Zinger has said he sees that his wife views him as the husband she knew before she cheated and that she cannot see that he is not that husband anymore. I think Zinger is trying to be kind to his wife, that letting her go is best in the long run, for both of them.

[qubist]

I think above is unfair.

 

My guess is that Zinger's hunch that the OM was a flakey coward was proved when he just wanted to talk to him face to face. The starving artist ran out the back door and zinger's intuition was spot on.

 

Since, Zinger had a PI, it would not be impossible to find the OM, if Zinger had wanted to confront him a second time, but Zinger chose not to, which seems to me he is not controlled by his anger, if anything Zinger has shown enormous restraint.

 

As to Zinger deciding to divorce, he seems to know himself well enough that he's not going to give his wife false hope and a false reconciliation when he knows it's not authentic in his heart.

 

What struck out, is Zinger has said he sees that his wife views him as the husband she knew before she cheated and that she cannot see that he is not that husband anymore. I think Zinger is trying to be kind to his wife, that letting her go is best in the long run, for both of them.

 

I respectfully disagree with the fact that anger had no affect. With that being said I still think that Zinger should not be blamed if he intends to D, as a matter of fact he will need a lot of support. i'm just trying to justify that the fact that his family and friend " lobbying" for R doesn't necessary means that they are not looking for his best interest. They know him and her better that us .

The majority of people here do no see any possible way a marriage can be restored after an A, that's the point that I'm not agreeing with

[Furious]

I respectfully disagree with the fact that anger had no affect. With that being said I still think that Zinger should not be blamed if he intends to D, as a matter of fact he will need a lot of support. i'm just trying to justify that the fact that his family and friend " lobbying" for R doesn't necessary means that they are not looking for his best interest. They know him and her better that us .

The majority of people here do no see any possible way a marriage can be restored after an A, that's the point that I'm not agreeing with

 

True friends and family support whatever decision a betrayed spouse chooses, only Zinger knows what is best for him. Sometimes, family members are not a positive resource.

[sandylee1]

Thank you, I appreciate your suggestion. This is a very valid point of view which is well aligned with opinions of people around me. E.g. if you have a loving beautiful smart women who makes (used to make) you so happy, for your own good you got to give her a chance, especially since she's so remorseful and promises quote "to spend the rest of her life making up for what she's done".

 

However even if I - for the sake of the argument- decide to ignore very reasonable assessment of lying and stonewalling rightfully expressed here, one issue remains. And that is that I do feel betrayed to the core, and I cannot imagine her living with amount of anger and disappointment built inside me. Basically I believe that subconsciously she still believes I'm the same person ib used to be 3 or 4 month ago, which is not the case.

 

She doesn't know what she is trying to sign up to. I genuinely think the divorce is best fur her as well.

 

Hope this addresses the point.

 

A victim of his manipulation is something I don't buy.

 

She's a grown woman for pete's sake. At what point in life do we start to take responsibility for our own actions.

 

She made a concious decision to cheat on Zinger. She wasn't forced to do so. Listening to the fancy talk and bull from any man is down to your own stupidity. That applies whether you're married or single.

 

No matter what crap he fed her, she's a married woman and unless she developed amnesia, there really is no excuse here.

I believe Zinger and her had a decent marriage from what's been said. They lived a good life and she doesn't give any reason for cheating, like neglect or no sex. She prefers to state that she bought him paint and hugged him like a mother.

 

It really makes me wonder when people say "don't throw away 10/20/30 of a good marriage. The person who cheated DID THAT.

Not the BS who wants to walk away. If those 15 years meant f*** all to her, why should they mean the world to Zinger or any other BS.

 

They risk a marriage of X years and suddenly the BS should have them back.....well as I say, unless the BS:

 

Was mean and cruel

Denied affection

Was abusive

 

or any other extreme behaviour, why should they forgive and reconcile? If the marriage didn't mean enough for a WS not to cheat, they have an absolute cheek to even expect reconciling.

[qubist]

True friends and family support whatever decision a betrayed spouse chooses,

True they should support him no matter what and part of supporting is telling him a honest advice.

only Zinger knows what is best for him. Sometimes,

it is not always the case that a person knows best for himself, sometimes we just need a different perspective. this is generally speaking.

you are basing your point on a belief that infidelity in an unforgivable mistake, his family do not see it that way so you can accuse them for not looking out for his best

[aliveagain]

zinger, this is your time to be selfish and you do whatever you need to do to get over her infidelity including getting rid of her. Being married to you doesn't give her an automatic do over. She cancelled her marriage contract with you when she started her affair. Who cares if she or other people think your not being fair, openly dating other men isn't fair to you. Let's hope she learned from this experience because she is paying dearly for this life lesson. This is no longer about her, she showed you who she is, this is about you and your survival and happiness. Just do what you need to do and nothing less.

[Furious]

I i'm just trying to justify that the fact that his family and friend " lobbying" for R doesn't necessary means that they are not looking for his best interest. They know him and her better that us .

 

How can you state fact, it's conjecture and biased projection on your obvious stance on preferring reconciliation over Zinger choosing to divorce.

 

What "fact" do you have about Zinger's family knowing him better than what he has stated in his own words in his thread about how he feels when it comes to his decision to look out for his own best interest.

 

Not once has Zinger said how his family has been there for him, offered him a shoulder to lean on, but instead guilt trip him into reconciliation.

[Buckeye2]

What’s really sad is when a marriage is so strong that it gives one of the spouses enough confidence to cheat. The marriage is rock solid so it will always be there. The following shows this attitude.

 

About 4 months ago we touched the subject. The context was based on the situation of the couple we have seen socially couple of times:

 

W: do you know A was caught cheating on B?

Me: (causally as I was busy doing something else). Well that's a shame, how is their divorce going?

W: Why are you assuming they are divorcing?

Me: (slightly surprised) How else should a man react to this?

W: So if I was cheating you wouldn't give me a second chance?

Me: You know I can forgive you almost anything - but not this.

W: Changes the topic

[qubist]

How can you state fact, it's conjecture and biased projection on your obvious stance on preferring reconciliation over Zinger choosing to divorce.

 

What "fact" do you have about Zinger's family knowing him better than what he has stated in his own words in his thread about how he feels when it comes to his decision to look out for his own best interest.

 

Not once has Zinger said how his family has been there for him, offered him a shoulder to lean on, but instead guilt trip him into reconciliation.

First of all I'm not asking zinger to do anything other than keeping all options open including R, if you read my posts I said many time that he has every right to just walk away and leave her I even said that if he chose this route he would deserve the support of everyone. I'm just against the idea that leaving is the only option.

No I don't have any facts that his family are good people that are not looking for his best, I just assumed that because of 2 things. 1- that's what family normally do . 2- Zinger Never mentioned that they intentionally looking to hurt them otherwise he wouldn't have problem with them supporting her and this wouldn't be an issue,

I think you are the one looking at it from one perspective which is infidelity is an unforgivable mistake and have hard time accepting that others ( like Zinger's family) do not see it that way that doesn't make them bad people

[sandylee1]

I think if you cheat on your spouse, you should expect divorce. Anything else is a bonus. If every WS expected divorce, they may think twice. Rather than I'm so loved he'll get over it.

 

That a WS can think apologies and passwords solve everything is just self righteous thinking.

 

I'd have to ask why do you think you're all that fantastic, that I should stick with you after you had sex with another man /woman. Expecting reconciliation would make me pull the plug in itself.

 

There are temptations everywhere and if I've resisted being with another, I absolutely expect the same from my spouse.

 

A loving family would support your choice following a betrayal like this. I can't ever imagine telling my son to stay with his cheating wife. Infact, I'd be appalled if he did. Forgiveness is fine, reconciliation No way. Why would I want the daughter in law that hurt my son anywhere around us....

[Furious]

First of all I'm not asking zinger to do anything other than keeping all options open including R, if you read my posts I said many time that he has every right to just walk away and leave her I even said that if he chose this route he would deserve the support of everyone. I'm just against the idea that leaving is the only option.

No I don't have any facts that his family are good people that are not looking for his best, I just assumed that because of 2 things. 1- that's what family normally do . 2- Zinger Never mentioned that they intentionally looking to hurt them otherwise he wouldn't have problem with them supporting her and this wouldn't be an issue,

I think you are the one looking at it from one perspective which is infidelity is an unforgivable mistake and have hard time accepting that others ( like Zinger's family) do not see it that way that doesn't make them bad people

 

You assume that because I support Zinger's choice to divorce that I don't also support reconciliation.

 

Respectfully, you are projecting that supporting a betrayed spouse in their choice to divorce is painting them as someone who believes cheating is unforgivable and that is clearly not the case. It's as though you are the one with a one sided view.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Furious

[qubist]

You assume that because I support Zinger's choice to divorce that I don't also support reconciliation.

 

Respectfully, you are projecting that supporting a betrayed spouse in their choice to divorce is painting them as someone who believes cheating is unforgivable and that is clearly not the case. It's as though you are the one with a one sided view.

 

Yes I honestly assume that and I apologize if I was wrong.

[aliveagain]

I would wager that every wayward spouse thought about the consequences of cheating if caught prior to starting the affair. There had to be a moment when they overwhelmingly approved their decision to be unfaithful, that decision included the justification that the risk was worth loosing their marriage over if caught. They did it because they concluded that they are worth the attention from the affair partner as well as their spouse and that they are too smart to get caught. Most have probably researched ways to hide their affair, that information is all over the internet and there are sites dedicated to helping you do exactly that.

 

The decision to cheat requires planning specially if it goes on for a period of time. It's not a mistake or an accident, it is well thought out with the thought that they can end it anytime they want. Unfortunately you can't control other people, someone who will cheat on their spouse can't be trusted with such a life altering secret because they can't be trusted, they are dishonest people who will lie to you to get what they want. They dug this hole let them get out of it. Your wife is a fully grown woman who knew exactly what she was doing every step of the way.

[Furious]

Yes I honestly assume that and I apologize if I was wrong.

 

You did assume wrong.

 

I get that you're sincere in hoping that reconciliation is something to strive for, and for many it is. But, realistically, it's not for everyone and being supportive of people's choice to divorce is not condemning a cheater to a life long sentence of being a "bad" person if their spouse chooses to move on.

[Friskyone4u]

There is a decent chance that had Zingers wife immediately sat down, provided him with at least a mostly truthful timeline, confessed to all of the truth that this might have ended differently.

 

Instead, she did the opposite. Totally maintained denial, totally stonewalled, and even at divorce did not confess the truth.

 

So I do not understand how it is so difficult to understand why this turned into a deal breaker, and i don';t understand why pelople who do understand that are being called divorce nazis.

 

I think most literature says the best chance for reconciliation on most cases is if the WS confesses or once caught teels in a short period of time the truth. She did none of that.

 

So how on earth does any one come to the conclusion that Zinger throws away 1 ,15 or however many years of marriage.

 

He did not cheat, he did not stonewall, and he gave her how many months to make an attempt to do anything but have it all her way. well, now she has it her way and that is called consequences of making poor deicsions not only in entering the affair, but every single step since.

[qubist]

You did assume wrong.

 

I get that you're sincere in hoping that reconciliation is something to strive for, and for many it is. But, realistically, it's not for everyone and being supportive of people's choice to divorce is not condemning a cheater to a life long sentence of being a "bad" person if their spouse chooses to move on.

 

Believe me I do not believe that trying R is always a good idea, I'm just defending the fact that it may be in some cases the best choice for The BS. I just noticed that many people do not see any possibility of a successful R. I also noticed that the anger can be a major factor of BS dismissing the possibility of a R, in Zinger case here I just wanted him to be aware of that and consider all options. I do not know his wife or his marriage neither do you. we can only judge based on his posts,

[Furious]

Believe me I do not believe that trying R is always a good idea, I'm just defending the fact that it may be in some cases the best choice for The BS. I just noticed that many people do not see any possibility of a successful R. I also noticed that the anger can be a major factor of BS dismissing the possibility of a R, in Zinger case here I just wanted him to be aware of that and consider all options. I do not know his wife or his marriage neither do you. we can only judge based on his posts,

 

 

Unlike you, I didn't project and assume "facts" and yet you clearly have been judgemental, insinuating Zinger's attempt to talk to the OM as some sort uncontrolled anger flaw in him, and assume his family knows him best when you cannot know this at all. In a way, you've been critical of Zinger and presume much.

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

Believe me I do not believe that trying R is always a good idea, I'm just defending the fact that it may be in some cases the best choice for The BS.

I agree in principle, but bringing this point up in this case is bizarre. There's nothing in this story that leads me to believe that it is the best choice in this situation. At every step of the way Zinger's wife wasn't honest and forthcoming, obfuscated, and was chronically deceitful.

 

I'm not seeing what you must have saw.

[qubist]

Unlike you, I didn't project and assume "facts" and yet you clearly have been judgemental, insinuating Zinger's attempt to talk to the OM as some sort uncontrolled anger flaw in him, and assume his family knows him best when you cannot know this at all. In a way, you've been critical of Zinger and presume much.

That's not true, I really think high of Zinger. I truly wish him the best from all my heart. I do not have any facts and again neither do you. Only him can tell us what he thinks of his family whether they have his best intrest or not regardless of what they think about his situation,

anger is there, and I don't mean any disrespect, the fact that he wanted retaliation confirmed it. All what I'm suggesting is to make sure he is not rushing to a D and take time to explore the option of possible R

[eric1]

Only he can tell us and he did. He was estranged until his wife pushed for reconciliation. They adore her.

 

It's really their problem. It's not like Zinger is being milky about this. This was a deal breaker for him, and lobbing her deceit for so long is literally the icing on top. For his family to continue to take this tact is frankly a little disrespectful.

 

Any reasonable person can understand why the deal breaker exist. For them to approach it like that, rather than their default route being 'make sure Zinger is ok' first is pretty crappy IMHO.

 

I say that knowing if I got divorced for the same reason that my parents would do the same thing, and it doesn't really make them horrible people. But heir perspectives are just junk as far as this is concerned.

[Furious]

That's not true, I really think high of Zinger. I truly wish him the best from all my heart. I do not have any facts and again neither do you. Only him can tell us what he thinks of his family whether they have his best intrest or not regardless of what they think about his situation,

anger is there, and I don't mean any disrespect, the fact that he wanted retaliation confirmed it. All what I'm suggesting is to make sure he is not rushing to a D and take time to explore the option of possible R

 

 

I do believe you sincere and wish the best for Zinger but you seem to gloss over his firm decision to divorce and keep bringing up reconciliation when he has said many, many times, he feels divorce is what is best for him.

[qubist]

I do believe you sincere and wish the best for Zinger but you seem to gloss over his firm decision to divorce and keep bringing up reconciliation when he has said many, many times, he feels divorce is what is best for him.

I'm not , I m just want him to be sure that his decision was not affected by any other factors and suggested he takes more time to explore all options. I don't know for sure he is in a best position to make that decision right now and please do not accuse me of disrespecting him or degrading his abilities, I'm just pointing out the possibilities.