To bust or not to bust

[drifter777]

Right. But then you say a waywards lying is a dealbreaker.

 

If you have to lie to get at a truth (I. E. Confirm suspicions), how can lying be a dealbreaker for you if you seek justifications in order to lie to you spouse?

 

So would it be okay to sit your spouse down, suspecting an affair, and tell her you want to confess you have been cheating on her say for months. Invent everything, in order to get her to forgive you for a false A just to get her to admit her own?

 

You would sit a woman you have shared a life with, with whom you have never in your 15 years of marriage ever told an untruth, and you could say to this woman, "look, you must tell me the truth as hard as it is to tell me, or I will divorce you. I will stay with you only because you can tell me the truth about what happened. Nothing else matters."

 

So she believes you and tells you she slept with another man, and that is the truth.

 

And you divorce her telling her the truth was not the real dealbreaker, it was the sex.

 

All I can say is I would have walked away from my marriage before I got to the words "You would sit". I do not ever want to be that man, nor pretend I'm okay with such manipulation of someone I supposedly cherished. Not because of what she has done, but because of what I have become.

Why do you pretend this is hard to understand? Lots of us, including OP, believe that when you catch your wife in an inappropriate relationship with some guy you need to know whether they had sex or not. Finding that out is paramount so if you snoop, hire a PI, set a trap by lying or whatever, it is all justified. You don't believe this. Move on.

[fellini]

Why do you pretend this is hard to understand? Lots of us, including OP, believe that when you catch your wife in an inappropriate relationship with some guy you need to know whether they had sex or not. Finding that out is paramount so if you snoop, hire a PI, set a trap by lying or whatever, it is all justified. You don't believe this. Move on.

 

I have been here before with you drifter. If you don't wish to read my posts, BLOCK ME, otherwise keep your personal issues to yourself. I have as much right to post in here and discuss and debate as the next guy.

[SycamoreCircle]

Why do you pretend this is hard to understand? Lots of us, including OP, believe that when you catch your wife in an inappropriate relationship with some guy you need to know whether they had sex or not. Finding that out is paramount so if you snoop, hire a PI, set a trap by lying or whatever, it is all justified. You don't believe this. Move on.

I agree with you drifter, it is justified. Dan Savage, one of the most progressive voices in talk of the sexes, advocates it, too. That said, I don't think it's ultimately healthy. You further engage yourself in the toxic miasma that is the cheater's world. Best to just let go...

[BetrayedH]

Right. But then you say a waywards lying is a dealbreaker.

 

If you have to lie to get at a truth (I. E. Confirm suspicions), how can lying be a dealbreaker for you if you seek justifications in order to lie to you spouse?

 

So would it be okay to sit your spouse down, suspecting an affair, and tell her you want to confess you have been cheating on her say for months. Invent everything, in order to get her to forgive you for a false A just to get her to admit her own?

 

You would sit a woman you have shared a life with, with whom you have never in your 15 years of marriage ever told an untruth, and you could say to this woman, "look, you must tell me the truth as hard as it is to tell me, or I will divorce you. I will stay with you only because you can tell me the truth about what happened. Nothing else matters."

 

So she believes you and tells you she slept with another man, and that is the truth.

 

And you divorce her telling her the truth was not the real dealbreaker, it was the sex.

 

All I can say is I would have walked away from my marriage before I got to the words "You would sit". I do not ever want to be that man, nor pretend I'm okay with such manipulation of someone I supposedly cherished. Not because of what she has done, but because of what I have become.

 

I think I've made my point of view clear. We simply disagree, Fellini.

 

I do think that a certain amount of deception is justified in order to ferret out deception. Is there a limit before it becomes unhealthy? Sure. I suspect that you and I simply draw the line in a different place.

 

We also draw the line in a different place when it comes to tolerating wayward behaviors. I think you've reached a point where you think some continued wayward behavior after Dday is to be expected. And I think you have more patience for that process to play out than what I would recommend. And that's ok. You can express your opinion and I will express mine. The posters can take what works for them and leave the rest. Personally, I wish we all had that approach all of the time. Snarky comments about posters opinions or "the crowd" really do us no good. But even I've managed to permit myself the occassional snarky comment. Today strengthens my resolve to avoid it. I hope you can do the same.

[drifter777]

I have been here before with you drifter. If you don't wish to read my posts, BLOCK ME, otherwise keep your personal issues to yourself. I have as much right to post in here and discuss and debate as the next guy.

Other way around. I can comment and if you don't like it I don't care.

 

No more off topic banter.

[66Charger]

Its just something you refuse to get.

 

You do not have the capacity to see things differently. Its that simple.

 

Not everyone sees the world thru your lens. that is a good thing.

 

You wrote that in regarding my personal definition of a doormat.

 

The hypocracy knows no boundaries, does it fellinni?

Edited June 6, 2015 by 66Charger

[Just a Guy]

Hi Zinger, Guess you are going to do well as you seem to be in complete control of your situation painful as it is. As far as Fellini, BetrayedH and the others are concerned I guess the adage " All's fair in Love and War" holds true here. You can take your choice of whether it is Love or War because both could fit in equally well. This is a Watershed moment for Zinger and his life is going to change drastically after he has had his te'ta te(?) with his wife. I think he is well equipped and well informed to be able to handle the situation with compassion and elan. Let us all wish him the very best!

[66Charger]

The measure of a person is what they will do when the sh@t hits the fan.

The wife has had 1 week to think about this.

So far, what she has witnesses is consequences.

She goes to bed at night, her husband is not there.

She wakes in the morning and realizes the nightmare is real.

She turns to her dad, what a frightened child would do,

Her parents relay to her that divorce is coming.

Her husband has cut all communication.

The fan is blowing at full force.

Lets hope she is not delusional.

 

Expecting or shall I say accepting more lies or trickle truthing is not something this OP has demonstrated he is willing to do.

 

I am still pulling for the wife.

[drifter777]

At this point I am pulling for zinger to be able to make decisions based on facts and his own heart. He knows what he can live with and I don't want to see him settle for less.

[eric1]

Me too. I just don't want him to do what I did and lie to myself. I knew deep, deep down what the answer was but would always have an excuse, something to wait for, made up and explanation...

[drifter777]

Me too. I just don't want him to do what I did and lie to myself. I knew deep, deep down what the answer was but would always have an excuse, something to wait for, made up and explanation...

 

I'd like to hear your story. If you don't want to post you could send it to me PM.

[eric1]

It's not that unique. My wife began travelling internationally for work for long periods of time. it was for a large corporation so a few of the Americans would go out from time to time. You can guess the story from there.

 

I caught her when I tried calling her one night and she said her phone was out of batteries. She would NEVER let her phone run out and if she did she'd start texting me at 20% to let me know. It seems like something small but in retrospect maybe my gut kind of felt something was going on and that's the moment for me.

 

I own an IT firm which specializes in compliance and regulation and as a result handle a bit of forensic recovery. At that point the challenge was on. I recovered everything. He was a contractor and I managed to track down his family after a few weeks of digging. On the day I confronted her his workplace received 82 pages of him misusing company time and resources, his wife received the same as well as a 45 minutes DVD explaining them.

 

Sounds like a man on a mission right? It gets better. At the confrontation I had the divorce papers ready to go and had her served, then confronted her 5 minutes later.

 

Still sounds good right? Well at that point I bought her remorse hook line and sinker. She promised, etc. Like a ****ing fool I felt reinvigorated and felt better about our marriage than I had in years (I honestly convinced myself of this). Then the next dday occurred appx three months later when I found out another guy she had been having an EA with at work (mostly in person or via email which I had no access to). I figured that one out one day when my friend, who works a few buildings away, saw her leaning into the window of a car with a guy in it. He manned up and let me know and the rest is history.

 

I'm happily remarried with two boys, 4 and 2. After we broke up I banged anything that move and luckily after six months or so I got bored and wanted some stability. My brother hooked me up with one of his girlfriends friends and like Gretzky I scored on my first shot.

 

So... That's it in a nutshell

[Morbius]

It's not that unique. My wife began travelling internationally for work for long periods of time. it was for a large corporation so a few of the Americans would go out from time to time. You can guess the story from there.

 

I caught her when I tried calling her one night and she said her phone was out of batteries. She would NEVER let her phone run out and if she did she'd start texting me at 20% to let me know. It seems like something small but in retrospect maybe my gut kind of felt something was going on and that's the moment for me.

 

I own an IT firm which specializes in compliance and regulation and as a result handle a bit of forensic recovery. At that point the challenge was on. I recovered everything. He was a contractor and I managed to track down his family after a few weeks of digging. On the day I confronted her his workplace received 82 pages of him misusing company time and resources, his wife received the same as well as a 45 minutes DVD explaining them.

 

Sounds like a man on a mission right? It gets better. At the confrontation I had the divorce papers ready to go and had her served, then confronted her 5 minutes later.

 

Still sounds good right? Well at that point I bought her remorse hook line and sinker. She promised, etc. Like a ****ing fool I felt reinvigorated and felt better about our marriage than I had in years (I honestly convinced myself of this). Then the next dday occurred appx three months later when I found out another guy she had been having an EA with at work (mostly in person or via email which I had no access to). I figured that one out one day when my friend, who works a few buildings away, saw her leaning into the window of a car with a guy in it. He manned up and let me know and the rest is history.

 

I'm happily remarried with two boys, 4 and 2. After we broke up I banged anything that move and luckily after six months or so I got bored and wanted some stability. My brother hooked me up with one of his girlfriends friends and like Gretzky I scored on my first shot.

 

So... That's it in a nutshell

 

Eric1,

 

Perhaps your story isn't unique, and in a nutshell, (sorry) does it matter? You followed your instincts, and despite one slip got rid of a cheater. By sharing you give others like zinger hope that their dreams will come true. You have a loving wife, and children. Can you imagine what your life would have been if you hadn't trusted your gut?

 

You probably and rightfully shuddered at that thought.

 

I hope zinger will continue to follow his gut, and whatever his decision is, will be the best for him. Whether divorce or reconciliation. It is his choice.

 

Thank you for sharing Eric1, happy endings are so rare these days, and to keep with your final words, you scored a hat trick.

 

Congrats!!!

 

Appreciate your candor and posts.

[drifter777]

eric1: Thank you for sharing your painful story - I truly feel for you.

 

I think the urge to reconcile - even against our better judgement - is fueled in large part by our desperate desire to end the pain and get our old lives back. We happily immerse ourselves in denial by telling ourselves that it ain't that bad and time will heal the wound. Then we find out more disgusting details. The mind-movies of her with OM crush our souls. And, in your case, then she does it again. I'm happy that you were able to rebuild your life with a good woman.

[Binster]

Well done Eric.

Don't beat yourself up for the slip up.

You loved your wife and wanted to give her a chance, that,s not stupid.

She screwed the chance up, that,s stupid.

[merrmeade]

Perhaps your story isn't unique, and in a nutshell, (sorry) does it matter? You followed your instincts, and despite one slip got rid of a cheater.

I don't believe the world is divided between cheaters and the rest of us. You guys are being awfully simplistic here.

 

zinger's wife isn't just another cheater. She's a person he loved deeply for years. He needs to grieve AND be smart. It's too soon to say whether she's credible, truly remorseful or what. Eric, zinger, anyone forgiving this soon after dday would be NOT smart imoh. She has to prove herself.

 

And it's entirely too soon to bring reconciliation into the conversation. That's another subject entirely. If they tried, a lot could go wrong. A lot could go right.

 

For example, I complain a lot about my WH, but recently he went out of state with my iPad and on the way back read my LS posts. Big shock. Big talks. Big changes. This is 3 years out. We're still hassling with it - in a hopeful way.

 

But for zinger, it's way too soon even to talk about forgiveness and reconciliation.

 

Just don't call it a waste of time and don't make the either-or choices about the wrong things. Not fair to zinger.

 

Just be smart, z.

[Morbius]

I don't believe the world is divided between cheaters and the rest of us. You guys are being awfully simplistic here.

 

zinger's wife isn't just another cheater. She's a person he loved deeply for years. He needs to grieve AND be smart. It's too soon to say whether she's credible, truly remorseful or what. Eric, zinger, anyone forgiving this soon after dday would be NOT smart imoh. She has to prove herself.

 

And it's entirely too soon to bring reconciliation into the conversation. That's another subject entirely. If they tried, a lot could go wrong. A lot could go right.

 

For example, I complain a lot about my WH, but recently he went out of state with my iPad and on the way back read my LS posts. Big shock. Big talks. Big changes. This is 3 years out. We're still hassling with it - in a hopeful way.

 

But for zinger, it's way too soon even to talk about forgiveness and reconciliation.

 

Just don't call it a waste of time and don't make the either-or choices about the wrong things. Not fair to zinger.

 

Just be smart, z.

 

My post was directed to eric1, and how he followed his gut to discover the infidelity. I was appreciative of his sharing, and encouraging zinger to follow his gut too.

 

It wasn't my intent to over simplify the situation and it is way to early to make life altering decisions. Agree completely. If anything my one sentence about "getting rid of a cheater", was the problem. Not all BS's do, but eric1 did and that was the context of the statement, and not meant to be a rule of thumb for every BS. Life is not simple and it isn't cheaters on one side, betrayeds on the other. The emotions are powerfully similar, but unique to each relationship and with different outcomes. As eric1 went through, you went through, so too shall zinger. In the end, the choice will be as it was for you, zinger's to divorce or work through reconciliation. Aside from open marriage is there another outcome I am oblivious to?

 

Eric1 followed his gut and after a slip came through married to a wonderful person. He graciously shared this.

 

It is not a waste of time, and hopefully the path zinger takes will eventually lead him to peace and eventual happiness.

 

Yes, be smart zinger, be smart.

[aliveagain]

Ok, thank you all, I have considered all the input. Seems to be the case the majority of responses have been divided into: Confront with "I know it all and this is the last chance for I would not tolerate the cheating" or to lay low and gather evidence.

 

I will have a talk soon but I'll keep it at a very friendly non-accusing level. To clarify: about 4 months ago we touched the subject. The context was based on the situation of the couple we have seen socially couple of times:

W: do you know A was caught cheating on B?

Me: (causally as I was busy doing something else). Well that's a shame, how is their divorce going?

W: Why are you assuming they are divorcing?

Me: (slightly surprised) How else should a man react to this?

W: So if I was cheating you wouldn't give me a second chance?

Me: You know I can forgive you almost anything - but not this.

W: Changes the topic

 

So I'll just remind her of that conversation and reiterate that if she is hypothetically she is caught being unfaithful - we will be done

 

I hope you are OK, I know what you are going through. This is why she is not willing to tell you that her affair is physical, she already knows the outcome if it was. I would bet that when you had this conversation with her she was already having an affair, if she wasn't and knowing it would be a deal breaker but did it anyway, well, that's a whole other level of selfishness. Again, it's up to her to prove they never had sex and I don't know how you believe a liar without the use of a polygraph? I think she had this conversation with you to judge your stand on infidelity.

Edited June 7, 2015 by aliveagain

[66Charger]

 

That is good news Merrmeade. Hopefully he read all your post and all of our comments.

 

I wonder what changes a WS would make if they could read the innermost thoughts of their BS and the advice given on LS

 

I wonder what changes a BS would make if they were to read their WS true thoughts on LS.

 

My guess is 2 very different results.

Edited June 7, 2015 by 66Charger

[eric1]

I hope you are OK, I know what you are going through. This is why she is not willing to tell you that her affair is physical, she already knows the outcome if it was. I would bet that when you had this conversation with her she was already having an affair, if she wasn't and knowing it would be a deal breaker but did it anyway, well, that's a whole other level of selfishness. Again, it's up to her to prove they never had sex and I don't know how you believe a liar without the use of a polygraph? I think she had this conversation with you to judge your stand on infidelity.

 

It's also why I predict that she'll trickle truth in another manner - rug sweeping. It will be an "inappropriate relationship" but not an affair.

 

It's an affair.

[CarrieT]

Zinger, I hope you will report back how the weekend went... Assuming you returned home?

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

Again, it's up to her to prove they never had sex and I don't know how you believe a liar without the use of a polygraph? I think she had this conversation with you to judge your stand on infidelity.

That's a difficult position for her to be in. How can she prove she didn't have sex with the man? A polygraph can come back inconclusive, for example, or she may pass it, but that's not conclusive proof.

 

There really is no such thing as proof she didn't have sex with this guy over an extended period of time, when she had multiple opportunities. She can prove she didn't have sex with him on certain dates, for example, but blanket proof is not possible.

[BetrayedH]

That's a difficult position for her to be in. How can she prove she didn't have sex with the man? A polygraph can come back inconclusive, for example, or she may pass it, but that's not conclusive proof.

 

There really is no such thing as proof she didn't have sex with this guy over an extended period of time, when she had multiple opportunities. She can prove she didn't have sex with him on certain dates, for example, but blanket proof is not possible.

 

If all was innocent, their messages may reflect that. It's not an uncommon point of discussion between APs that haven't 'done it.'

[zinger]

Zinger, I hope you will report back how the weekend went... Assuming you returned home?

 

Goddamn it, typed a long response and then pressed the wrong button. Starting again...

 

 

That is correct Carrie, I returned home. Have a lot of new information that has been made available to me via talks with FWW and my own investigations. Nothing game changing - e.g. that would require me to stop the divorce (seeing family lawyer this week anyway) or going completely dark and nuclear.

I'll have to trickle feed it as it is long and all my family issues and work (which I use as a way to distract myself) take more time than I thought it would. Also used sleeping pills 1st time in my life - not a pleasant experience on top of everything else.

Also, a lot of great feedback here which took me some time to read. Before I get to the business I'd like to thank all of you, and especially:

Carrie - for checking on me.

Merrmeade - for finding time to post a very useful and balanced advice while going through a lot (sorry I looked at our thread).

Eric - for sharing the story and all the forensic info (it worked). Eric - if I way - have you heard from or about your ex after you divorced?

Alivegaian - for reminding me about that conversation.

BetrayedH - for all comments especially the "un$$#%ck the other man" one.

..and everyone else.

Fellini - I value your input but I'm afraid you'll have to "uncomplicate" it for me, not sure if I understand it (I'm a KISS person). In any case, from that point in my life I'm not looking to "build a solid marriage" - as far as I'm concerned I have already done that so the ball is clearly in the other court.

Thanks again and the trickle feed is about to start.

[eric1]

Hi Zinger,

 

Sleeping pills do bad things to me too. As a scaled down version I use Advil PM from time to time and they seem to not turn me into a Pink Floyd video.

 

I no longer speak with my ex-wife. I'm curious of course. She wasn't that bad after we broke up, nothing malicious. However every time I'd see her pop up in Facebook or I would hear from her I would get....less happy I guess? Like it wouldn't ruin my day but it just was never a positive thing. So I did a slow fade then unfriend her.

 

After I caught her a second time it was clear that I'd be dead before I stuck with her which in retrospect made things easier. It got all the games out of the way so by the end we were just two people who used to be married.

 

Good deal on the forensics, let me know if I can be of any more help. Do check in here, as weird and stalker-y as it sonds I find myself checking in on this thread a few times a day - I'm rooting for you man!!