To bust or not to bust

[qubist]

I agree in principle, but bringing this point up in this case is bizarre. There's nothing in this story that leads me to believe that it is the best choice in this situation. At every step of the way Zinger's wife wasn't honest and forthcoming, obfuscated, and was chronically deceitful.

 

I'm not seeing what you must have saw.

 

I saw a woman who made a terrible mistake. we have seen similar stories over over again, whether he can forgive and give her a chance to work herself back then make that decision to see if it's worth it,or he sees it an unforgivable act it is up to him

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

I saw a woman who made a terrible mistake. we have seen similar stories over over again, whether he can forgive and give her a chance to work herself back then make that decision to see if it's worth it,or he sees it an unforgivable act it is up to him

Honestly, everyone saw that. But you had to see something more to get from your suggestion from the circumstance. I honestly don't see it.

[sandylee1]

I'm just defending the fact that it may be in some cases the best choice for The BS. ,

Qubist,

 

Can you just give me an insight as to why you think staying with a cheating spouse, who disrespected you so badly ans caused you so much pain might be the BEST CHOICE?

 

I have views on why a BS may wish to reconcile and give it a go, but I'm not sure I'd even say my views are the 'best choice'

[OldRover]

First of all I'm not asking zinger to do anything other than keeping all options open including R, if you read my posts I said many time that he has every right to just walk away and leave her I even said that if he chose this route he would deserve the support of everyone. I'm just against the idea that leaving is the only option.

No I don't have any facts that his family are good people that are not looking for his best, I just assumed that because of 2 things. 1- that's what family normally do . 2- Zinger Never mentioned that they intentionally looking to hurt them otherwise he wouldn't have problem with them supporting her and this wouldn't be an issue,

I think you are the one looking at it from one perspective which is infidelity is an unforgivable mistake and have hard time accepting that others ( like Zinger's family) do not see it that way that doesn't make them bad people

 

Zinger can do whatever he wishes, and all the facts presented here really point to divorce sure looks like the best options, and as soon as possible. I'll support him for that decision.

 

He can ALWAYS try reconciliation.... even after the divorce is final. That is an option. However, sure seems like the divorced position puts him in a better position should things get worse. And based on the way the wife continued to lie and hide things, I'd wonder if she would ever tell the truth.

 

BTW, I did reconcile after a divorce. But we had a few things going for us. We were basically honest with each other, even though we had MAJOR issues. I started my affair prior to the divorce being final, but didn't hide it...if fact, told her prior to. We were already emotionally done, and the divorce was eminent... just a matter of separation of things and paperwork. She wanted her way of life and I wanted mine. We never hated each other, we just didn't like the position we were in. However, prior to getting back together, we had a long honest discussion and a really good plan. Neither one of us held back anything, but once we got through all the history, we decided it was best left behind us, and that worked. Now, it there had been hiding info, lying and deception, it wouldn't have worked at all.

 

I wish the best for Zinger... and he'll have options. He seems to have looked over options and what is best very intelligently. Who knows, his wife really could turn around after time, and that's his option should he want to pursue her, but sure looks like a stretch.

[latinmex]

Zinger if he divorces throws away 15 years of his life.

 

He is not trows away the 15 years

 

SHE TROWS AWAY THAT 15 YEARS FOR WHAT SHE DID

 

He told her one time that he never can forgive an infidelity and she didn´t care she had one.

[italianjob]

Zinger if he divorces throws away 15 years of his life.

 

He is not trows away the 15 years

 

SHE TROWS AWAY THAT 15 YEARS FOR WHAT SHE DID

 

He told her one time that he never can forgive an infidelity and she didn´t care she had one.

 

I absolutely agree.

She is the one who threw 15 years away the moment she decided to open her legs for another man.

 

Suggesting that zinger is the one throwing away the marriage is just ridiculous.

[eric1]

Zinger if he divorces throws away 15 years of his life.

 

He is not trows away the 15 years

 

SHE TROWS AWAY THAT 15 YEARS FOR WHAT SHE DID

 

He told her one time that he never can forgive an infidelity and she didn´t care she had one.

 

No kidding. And the funny part about the apologists is that Zinger basically spent the first three pages of this thread waiting for a time to (re)emphasize his stance on infidelity.

 

You know, just in case.

[italianjob]

he has every right to just walk away and leave her I even said that if he chose this route he would deserve the support of everyone.

 

If you are sincere about this you should have started supporting him and quit pushing R long ago.

Maybe you missed that, but zinger chose that route several weeks and a good number of pages ago.

You seem to want to ignore that and keep talking about it like it's a decision yet to be made, but either you have skipped a lot (quite a lot) of posts or you are just pushing your agenda.

 

I think you are the one looking at it from one perspective which is infidelity is an unforgivable mistake

 

Actually, infidelity is not really a mistake (as in "I intended to do something but did something else insted"), it's a decision to go down a certain path. I agree that it's a decision sometimes you make under the influence of several factors (internal or external) that may cloud your judgement, so it doesn't necessarily make you an all-round bad person and you may regret it later on and even feel remorse for taking it, but you own it all, it's no mistake, there's no devil making you do it.

 

Forgiveness has really nothing to do with it. You may forgive and not want to stay in a relationship with that person, or you may never forgive but stay because other factors make you decide so. The two are not related and don't necessarily go hand in hand.

 

When I was cheated on, I had alredy forgiven her a week later. I just decided I didn't want to keep a relationship with her, because I couldn't see her anymore as a life mate after what the infidelity had brought to light as part of her personality.

Edited August 21, 2015 by italianjob

[road]

There is a decent chance that had Zingers wife immediately sat down, provided him with at least a mostly truthful timeline, confessed to all of the truth that this might have ended differently.

 

 

 

How can people become that affair blind?

 

 

People never want to confess. Look at Kathleen Sibelius, Lois Lerner, Hilary Clinton.

[italianjob]

I do not understand how it is so difficult to understand why this turned into a deal breaker

 

Yeah, me too, looks like mrs. zinger has a lot of fans on this forum, but I really can't see why.

 

Yeah, it's true, is far from the worst case of infidelity witnessed here: a single OM (as far as we know), a duration of just a few weeks.

We have objectively seen worse, but as far as D or R are concerned, the seriousness of the A is in the "eye of the beholder" (which would be the BS).

 

What I can't really understand is how she got to keep her fans afer months of stonewalling and after a very poor handling of the post-A, and yet again after the latest devolpments.

 

I mean, zinger told us she had knew the OM for a few weeks before he became suspicious. Now he tells us, he discovered that when he started to monitor it was already too late.

This means that if she had been as good at keeping her panties on to protect her marriage for half the time as she was good at keeping the truth to herself to protect her position in the marriage, she probably wouldn't be divorcing now.

 

More, zinger told us the OM bragged about finding a lady who "slept with him with no strings attached". If this wording is accurate enough it makes me think a lot.

1. A POS who brags about banging a married woman would put emphasis on how good he was at getting it from an unwilling good girl, if this was the case. To put it like that it sounds like she was the pursuer, not a "victim of a predator".

2. A " married woman who sleeps with another man with no strings attached" suggests, IMO, that the OM perceived her as kinda libertine or promiscuous. So I wonder if this was really her first rodeo.

 

Really, I don't see this woman as especially deserving another chance. If zinger had expressed the desire to do so, ok, but I don't see a reason to stand behind her cause...

[TX-SC]

She may have compartmentalized the affair, but she is an adult with the ability to rationalize her actions. She knew that having sex with another man would likely end her marriage, yet she did it anyway. This was a conscious decision on her part with known consequences. She could have stopped it at ANY time, but did not.

 

Zinger, the decision is all yours. Don't let your friends or anyone else influence your decision. For what it's worth, I probably would make the same decision to cut my losses and move on. Reconciling after a EA/PA is very difficult and takes years. Even after years of trying, you may never trust her fully again. Is it really worth it? You can start a new job in a new place and eventually start over with someone you can fully trust, who has never stabbed you in the back like your wife has.

 

Hell, if I were you, I'd just enjoy being single. Go on a cruise. Go to Jamaica. Go to some cool places and have a hell of a lot of fun.

[aliveagain]

Almost spot on. It looks like if I don't post long enough, this community is capable of getting to the right conclusions based on a very few facts.

 

It'll require me a certain mental effort to desribe this in details and the recollection is still blurry, but the mile high digest is. I have met someone who reported to me that the bastard was overheard bragging that be has found a no strings attached woman who not only sleeps wth him but buys him stuff. I went home, confronted and got the confession.

I know I'm supposed to stuck to the facts and not to bother you with emotional component, but I feel utterly humiliated even writing this several days later.

 

zinger, I am glad and at the same time sorry you finally got the confession you desperately needed for you to move on. Most suspected that it was physical by her actions. There is one more thing you may want to discuss with her if it makes any difference to you at this point. As an artist I only paint nudes of women I have slept with. I usually take photographs of my model for reference as I paint my piece. Has she mentioned anything about modeling for him or of him painting her? You have no idea of just how many women want to be immortalized in art, no one throws art away and it lasts hundreds of years longer than the artist or model. Just something to think about because women have no problem taking their cloths off for me to see if I want to paint them. I do not abuse this privilege but a scumbag like her O/M may use this to get women in bed.

[zinger]

Each time I assume this is over there is new twist. I have never ever thought about it, especially the photos.

 

FML...

 

 

zinger, I am glad and at the same time sorry you finally got the confession you desperately needed for you to move on. Most suspected that it was physical by her actions. There is one more thing you may want to discuss with her if it makes any difference to you at this point. As an artist I only paint nudes of women I have slept with. I usually take photographs of my model for reference as I paint my piece. Has she mentioned anything about modeling for him or of him painting her? You have no idea of just how many women want to be immortalized in art, no one throws art away and it lasts hundreds of years longer than the artist or model. Just something to think about because women have no problem taking their cloths off for me to see if I want to paint them. I do not abuse this privilege but a scumbag like her O/M may use this to get women in bed.

[TobyBoy]

Zinger, other than confessing about it being physical, did she admit to other things? Was the affair longer than what you thought? Has she spoken to the pos since dday? How much did she spend on him? Was he ever in your home? Did they use protection?

 

I know these are hard question, but these are questions I would have asked if I was in your shoes.

[drifter777]

Each time I assume this is over there is new twist. I have never ever thought about it, especially the photos.

 

FML...

 

You've suffered enough shame for her slutty behavior so fu*k the pictures. Keep focusing on disassociating from her and putting more emotional distance from her.

[eric1]

Yeah, me too, looks like mrs. zinger has a lot of fans on this forum, but I really can't see why.

 

Yeah, it's true, is far from the worst case of infidelity witnessed here: a single OM (as far as we know), a duration of just a few weeks.

We have objectively seen worse, but as far as D or R are concerned, the seriousness of the A is in the "eye of the beholder" (which would be the BS).

 

What I can't really understand is how she got to keep her fans afer months of stonewalling and after a very poor handling of the post-A, and yet again after the latest devolpments.

 

I mean, zinger told us she had knew the OM for a few weeks before he became suspicious. Now he tells us, he discovered that when he started to monitor it was already too late.

This means that if she had been as good at keeping her panties on to protect her marriage for half the time as she was good at keeping the truth to herself to protect her position in the marriage, she probably wouldn't be divorcing now.

 

More, zinger told us the OM bragged about finding a lady who "slept with him with no strings attached". If this wording is accurate enough it makes me think a lot.

1. A POS who brags about banging a married woman would put emphasis on how good he was at getting it from an unwilling good girl, if this was the case. To put it like that it sounds like she was the pursuer, not a "victim of a predator".

2. A " married woman who sleeps with another man with no strings attached" suggests, IMO, that the OM perceived her as kinda libertine or promiscuous. So I wonder if this was really her first rodeo.

 

Really, I don't see this woman as especially deserving another chance. If zinger had expressed the desire to do so, ok, but I don't see a reason to stand behind her cause...

 

I'm not sure that I agree with the last part. I do not think that she was a victim and that she made a conscious choice, but this strikes me as a woman who was out feeding on attention. She found that she could purchase this attention in transactions consisting of either presents or sex.

 

If she could have paid in backflips she probably would have done that as well.

 

She was great at covering her tracks but I do not think that she was anything more than a naive simpleton when it came to the relationship with her boyfriend.

[singer23]

Almost spot on. It looks like if I don't post long enough, this community is capable of getting to the right conclusions based on a very few facts.

 

It'll require me a certain mental effort to desribe this in details and the recollection is still blurry, but the mile high digest is. I have met someone who reported to me that the bastard was overheard bragging that be has found a no strings attached woman who not only sleeps wth him but buys him stuff. I went home, confronted and got the confession.

 

I know I'm supposed to stuck to the facts and not to bother you with emotional component, but I feel utterly humiliated even writing this several days later.

 

Why does this make me so angry ??

[italianjob]

She was great at covering her tracks but I do not think that she was anything more than a naive simpleton when it came to the relationship with her boyfriend.

 

While I was always convinced their behavior showed that they had been physical, I was also always convinced of mrs zinger's naivete in the matter.

 

The way the OM commented her, as reported by zinger, makes me doubt that naivete.

 

Of course I'm from a non english speaking country, and I don't know if zinger is too, so it may all be a matter of nuances lost in translations, but that wording doesn't give me back the image I painted of a naive girl caught up in a bad decision, but that of a woman who knew what she wanted and how she was going to get it.

 

But I may be wrong on that.

[autumnnight]

Why does this make me so angry ??

 

 

Because it is disgusting

 

Zinger, I fully believe you are doing the right thing.

[Cressida]

I've been reading this thread, binge reading if you may, all in one evening. Hats off to Zinger for the way he's handled it. I truly admire your integrity and backbone, as well as your clarity of mind, Zinger.

 

A way of coping with the negative feelings is thinking about it from a different perspective, 'business-like', since you seem to be a hardcore realist and

engineering devil

 

1. You have basically cut your loses. You are no longer investing precious resources of love, affection, care and everything else into a person who did the one thing they knew would affect you tremendously, and would be a dealbreaker. When something like this happens, it is better for you in the long run. 'You know things now', like they say. Better late than never.

 

2. The situation has shown you the intricacies of the human heart and mind. Anyone can make a mistake, granted. Second chances are always there, and we must all learn to forgive if not for the other person then for ourselves.

However, the aspect that mostly prevails in your story is your (ex)wife's capacity for deceit.

 

She knew from the beginning that you would never tolerate infidelity (particularly the one including sexual relations). She knew this for years. She knew your opinion on it, and witnessed you taking the same stance with regards to the couple you two were discussing about at that point. It's not only about her making a 'mistake' for 'falling' for some two-dime 'artist' and getting all high on the thrill of novelty.

 

It's about her reaction afterwards.

 

It wasn't regret for what she had done, but an emotional (crying, begging, expressing regret) and physical (getting ill) reaction of having been caught.

 

Had her feelings been that strong with regards to what she had done in terms of regret, inasmuch as it would tantamount to full-blown physical reactions of illness and even the need to consult a physician, she would have immediately confessed to the deed, admitted that there has been sexual contact, pictures, etc., truly asked for forgiveness and tried to move every stone and every mountain to prove that regret and the love she has for you.

 

In reality, she trickle-truthed you even despite her 'condition' (I think she was 90% faking it, to be honest) to soften you with her tears and desperate pleas. You ended up questioning your own judgment- thinking you might be too harsh on someone who only played around in an 'emotional' thing and nothing else. Perhaps that artist fool managed to use some 'artsy' tricks on her and make her giddy like a school girl- but look, she didn't sleep with him as she says so.

 

But then the hammer fell and you found out that she had been lying all the time, she didn't really care about your devastation but her own self (getting 'sick', calling family members, etc.), her need for protection and care. As if she was the victim and you, the perpetrator, not the other way around.

 

(May I ask, is your wife from the same background/nationality as you are?)

 

That is a manipulative, selfish and outstandingly dishonest woman who can't come clean for the sake of her husband despite the aggravating situation. She adopts a child-like attitude and resorts to all sorts of tactics only to be able to keep the deceit going (her trying to fool the polygraph test, wow! Just wow!!!).

 

She keeps denying and puts you through hell with going through phone records, messages, hiring private investigators and even taking the poly test despite knowing what she has done and knowing you'd much better appreciate the honesty.

 

That is not someone I personally believe would make for a good companion, a good partner in anything, particularly marriage. You already know that the thing that most bothers you isn't the affair in itself, but the fact that she disrespected you by taking you for a fool, and that you'll never be able to trust her again.

 

Please keep us updated, your story is very touching and real, and everyone here roots for you, wishes you the best and is convinced that once you decide what you want to do, a new chapter will open.

No matter how cliche it may sound- after the storm the sun always shines.

[zinger]

Zinger, other than confessing about it being physical, did she admit to other things? Was the affair longer than what you thought? Has she spoken to the pos since dday? How much did she spend on him? Was he ever in your home? Did they use protection?

 

I know these are hard question, but these are questions I would have asked if I was in your shoes.

 

Look to be honest the mentioning of potential nude painting and modeling and considerations of other physical aspects you mention almost threw me down and back to the finding out the truth phase. I was ready to get back to my (former) home, start asking questions, etc, etc. But then - after cooling of a bit - I realised this would change nothing. How long, how many times, even how many men though I'm sure this is her only affair - doesn't even matter. I can't divorce her more than once anyway. And if there are paints or pictures - they can have them and put them up for exhibition. We will be totally dissociated soon.

[zinger]

Great post, thank you, especially #1. About the "only thing" that could hurt me and that I couldn't forgive: the way I think about it is:

 

Although I spend more time on the board room rather than at the drawing board these days I do have an engineering background ( how did your guessed that?). What I have learned is that when you design a critical element of a system for resilience So it can withstand everything and they're is only one unique combination of parameters that can break it, which you had to allow to meet other criteria , be rest assured that this exact combination well break it in testing or even worse in production.

 

That is what happened to my life, which I reinforced against everything but not against the inside impact.

 

 

I've been reading this thread, binge reading if you may, all in one evening. Hats off to Zinger for the way he's handled it. I truly admire your integrity and backbone, as well as your clarity of mind, Zinger.

 

A way of coping with the negative feelings is thinking about it from a different perspective, 'business-like', since you seem to be a hardcore realist and

engineering devil

 

1. You have basically cut your loses. You are no longer investing precious resources of love, affection, care and everything else into a person who did the one thing they knew would affect you tremendously, and would be a dealbreaker. When something like this happens, it is better for you in the long run. 'You know things now', like they say. Better late than never.

 

2. The situation has shown you the intricacies of the human heart and mind. Anyone can make a mistake, granted. Second chances are always there, and we must all learn to forgive if not for the other person then for ourselves.

However, the aspect that mostly prevails in your story is your (ex)wife's capacity for deceit.

 

She knew from the beginning that you would never tolerate infidelity (particularly the one including sexual relations). She knew this for years. She knew your opinion on it, and witnessed you taking the same stance with regards to the couple you two were discussing about at that point. It's not only about her making a 'mistake' for 'falling' for some two-dime 'artist' and getting all high on the thrill of novelty.

 

It's about her reaction afterwards.

 

It wasn't regret for what she had done, but an emotional (crying, begging, expressing regret) and physical (getting ill) reaction of having been caught.

 

Had her feelings been that strong with regards to what she had done in terms of regret, inasmuch as it would tantamount to full-blown physical reactions of illness and even the need to consult a physician, she would have immediately confessed to the deed, admitted that there has been sexual contact, pictures, etc., truly asked for forgiveness and tried to move every stone and every mountain to prove that regret and the love she has for you.

 

In reality, she trickle-truthed you even despite her 'condition' (I think she was 90% faking it, to be honest) to soften you with her tears and desperate pleas. You ended up questioning your own judgment- thinking you might be too harsh on someone who only played around in an 'emotional' thing and nothing else. Perhaps that artist fool managed to use some 'artsy' tricks on her and make her giddy like a school girl- but look, she didn't sleep with him as she says so.

 

But then the hammer fell and you found out that she had been lying all the time, she didn't really care about your devastation but her own self (getting 'sick', calling family members, etc.), her need for protection and care. As if she was the victim and you, the perpetrator, not the other way around.

 

(May I ask, is your wife from the same background/nationality as you are?)

 

That is a manipulative, selfish and outstandingly dishonest woman who can't come clean for the sake of her husband despite the aggravating situation. She adopts a child-like attitude and resorts to all sorts of tactics only to be able to keep the deceit going (her trying to fool the polygraph test, wow! Just wow!!!).

 

She keeps denying and puts you through hell with going through phone records, messages, hiring private investigators and even taking the poly test despite knowing what she has done and knowing you'd much better appreciate the honesty.

 

That is not someone I personally believe would make for a good companion, a good partner in anything, particularly marriage. You already know that the thing that most bothers you isn't the affair in itself, but the fact that she disrespected you by taking you for a fool, and that you'll never be able to trust her again.

 

Please keep us updated, your story is very touching and real, and everyone here roots for you, wishes you the best and is convinced that once you decide what you want to do, a new chapter will open.

No matter how cliche it may sound- after the storm the sun always shines.

[zinger]

Because it is disgusting

 

Zinger, I fully believe you are doing the right thing.

 

I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing. I just know I'm doing the only thing I can do.

[aliveagain]

Look to be honest the mentioning of potential nude painting and modeling and considerations of other physical aspects you mention almost threw me down and back to the finding out the truth phase. I was ready to get back to my (former) home, start asking questions, etc, etc. But then - after cooling of a bit - I realised this would change nothing. How long, how many times, even how many men though I'm sure this is her only affair - doesn't even matter. I can't divorce her more than once anyway. And if there are paints or pictures - they can have them and put them up for exhibition. We will be totally dissociated soon.

 

Sorry for throwing that one at you but your a leave no stone unturned kind of guy. A lot has happened since May when you first posted about your concerns. You still had hopes you were wrong about your suspicions and so did we but it probably was already too late. The fact she didn't want to go with you on your business trip, her reaction to you coming home early, running away from you at the car park, having her friend inquire if it was safe for her to come home. She ran away because she knew the consequence for being caught no different than a thief who knows that it's 5-10 years for breaking and entering if caught, they run when confronted just like your wife did. She knows you don't make hollow threats, she was married to you for 15 years.

 

You still had her pretty high up on that pedestal just 60 days ago, it's a long way down when you find out she's no different than any other cheating wife. The difference is your wife's refusal to give you the truth until you confronted her about his bragging(it is quite common for O/M to brag about their conquests when there is no long term commitment on their part, he was just using your wife), she might have actually been the aggressor chasing him. Even that is not that uncommon, they confess to only what you know. Their view of themselves still doesn't match the reality of who they really are. She will crash as that reality sinks in and they do everything they can to make people believe that they are not that person. She will need a lot of counselling to help her get through this. Bottom line, she knew the penalty but still did the crime. Your 40 years old, you have a whole lifetime ahead of yourself, do what you need to do to be happy.

[singer23]

The worst part is how she kept covering and trickle truthing after the affair. She even took a polygraph(once rescheduled) to muddy the waters, even though she knew she was getting divorced. It can only mean that she was more bothered about saving her image among friends and family more than anything.

 

Zinger treated her with the dignity she did not deserve in hindsight. What is point of Ring after D if she cannot even respect him to make his own decision ? Especially after an affair.