To bust or not to bust

[merrmeade]

If you're using an iPhone, the "texts" will not show up on a phone bill, because they're not "texts," they're data sent over the iMessage "app."

Perhaps, this depends on the carrier, but they show up on AT&T and T-Mobile, the two carriers I've used. Data, internet downloads, etc. are separated from SMS (text message).

 

It's important to check both calls and SMS to detect patterns, which Zinger has discovered, but the benefit of doing it online and being able to sort the columns chronologically to cluster the numbers, dates and times is the main thing.

 

Of course, it's more useful as evidence if you know whose number it is.

 

Why don't you call it from an outside phone (not yours)?

 

Actually you didn't say anything about text messages, zinger. Major source of information. You can see online if the quantity, frequency and destination. You can also sort them by number as you did for the calls. That way you'll see if there are a lot to the same number as the calls. Also, if you know the password for her phone or if it doesn't have one, you can download a cheap app that reads deleted SMS. This is the real clincher as far as evidence goes.

 

Also, does your wife use a PC or Mac? If it's a Mac and you know the main password to unlock the computer, you can go into Keychain Access and get passwords to other accounts such as the dating or other sites you mentioned. You can most likely figure out her user names and passwords between checking emails, browser history and using keychain access. It takes some tech savvy, but, hey, this is how you learn it. I can explain more step-by-step if you need it.

[RoseVille]

Perhaps, this depends on the carrier, but they show up on AT&T and T-Mobile, the two carriers I've used. Data, internet downloads, etc. are separated from SMS (text message).

 

No. It is not dependent on the carrier.

 

iMessages do NOT show up on phone bills. It would be impossible to trace them, as iMessages are a VERY SMALL amount of data that is used over the iMessage "app." Only SMS - which an iMessage is not - is identified on the phone bill. Even a HUGE amount of iMessages wouldn't affect that much data, and you really have no idea if a huge data usage is from using Facebook or surfing the Internet or playing Angry Birds.

 

And once an iMessage is deleted, it's gone forever. Unlike a text, which leaves an imprint on the "hard drive" of the phone and can be retrieved by someone with experience with that sort of forensic recovery.

 

iMessages make covering your tracks very very easy.

[merrmeade]

No. It is not dependent on the carrier.

 

iMessages do NOT show up on phone bills. It would be impossible to trace them, as iMessages are a VERY SMALL amount of data that is used over the iMessage "app." Only SMS - which an iMessage is not - is identified on the phone bill. Even a HUGE amount of iMessages wouldn't affect that much data, and you really have no idea if a huge data usage is from using Facebook or surfing the Internet or playing Angry Birds.

 

And once an iMessage is deleted, it's gone forever. Unlike a text, which leaves an imprint on the "hard drive" of the phone and can be retrieved by someone with experience with that sort of forensic recovery.

 

iMessages make covering your tracks very very easy.

This is so not helpful. The point is to find patterns to particular numbers. Every single message that my husband or I send from either of our iPhones to any other phone in the world shows up on our phone bills and in all online records with our carriers. THE PHONE NUMBER shows up. THAT is the point. I don't know what you're talking about but OP will be able to track data exchanges between his wife's phone and other phones as well as calls and THAT is helpful.

[merrmeade]

And, yes, you can retrieve deleted messages. There are all kinds of spyware apps out there that do it. For iPhones, deleted messages are stored on your computer. They are not readable, however, and that's where the external app comes in. I've used 2 or 3 and it works.

[gettingstronger]

Also, with iphones- depending on who you are texting and where, it sends it as either an imessage or a text message-I agree with Mermade- the number of messages and the phone number is important and helpful-

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

Judging by her reaction I (at least at the logical level) believe that nothing has happened but I need to know this beyond doubt.

Here's the thing, bro. There's nothing logical about the situation, if she is stepping out on your marriage. She won't behave rationally. Don't try to impute logic and rationality to the situation - it just won't fit.

[zinger]

Thanks for your posts. I have cancelled the rest of the trip and on my way home. It has been confirmed now she had involved with a man (identity to be confirmed); I need to find out what kind of involvement is it and how far did it go or going. But whatever the relationship is - she is hiding this from me.

 

The phone number (cell) belongs to a man I can not recognise (called him and hanged up). There is a number on her call history she called maybea dozen of times; the issue is that she is very bad with numbers and as soon as the number is not in her contacts she must've written it elsewhere. Ergo she's hiding it. PI company I hired (yes I did but decided not to specific about it just in case. No point to obfuscate this anymore) reported she spent an hour with an unknown male in the cafe. Nothing inappropriate but again she didn't tell me this. I have exhausted my venue of finding alternative explanation to all of thi.

 

Also I cannot believe this is actually happening to me.

[gettingstronger]

I'm truly sorry to hear this. No matter what path you decide, it's life changing. Try to take care of you so you can make the best choices. I know it sounds cliche but it's easy to start down a path with you guns blazing which makes it harder in the long run to find peace.

[No Limit]

Wishing you a lot of strength. Protect your assets, get your ducks in a row before serving her the divorce papers.

[66Charger]

Was so hoping for a false alarm. What is wrong with people these days

[aliveagain]

You are strongest at time of confrontation, have your demands ready, no contact, transparency, all passwords, independent counselling to find out why she allowed herself the approval to cheat. If she can't do it in front of you she shouldn't be doing it. Find out who O/M is and if he is married or in a relationship than expose him to his wife or girlfriend. Sounds like she's been trolling dating sites. She's shopping and interviewing for your replacement.

[Grapesofwrath]

Thanks for your posts. I have cancelled the rest of the trip and on my way home. It has been confirmed now she had involved with a man (identity to be confirmed); I need to find out what kind of involvement is it and how far did it go or going. But whatever the relationship is - she is hiding this from me.

 

The phone number (cell) belongs to a man I can not recognise (called him and hanged up). There is a number on her call history she called maybea dozen of times; the issue is that she is very bad with numbers and as soon as the number is not in her contacts she must've written it elsewhere. Ergo she's hiding it. PI company I hired (yes I did but decided not to specific about it just in case. No point to obfuscate this anymore) reported she spent an hour with an unknown male in the cafe. Nothing inappropriate but again she didn't tell me this. I have exhausted my venue of finding alternative explanation to all of thi.

 

Also I cannot believe this is actually happening to me.

 

I'm so sorry to hear this news.

 

It's possible that he is married, too, which is why they did nothing inappropriate in a public place like a cafe. Or maybe things haven't gone that far yet.

 

If you have a trusted confidante, now is the time to contact this person. You will need a listening ear and wise council from someone you know who has your best interests in mind.

[Friskyone4u]

Zinger

 

Sorry about this but not surprised from your earlier posts. Not sure if you are home yet but you can expect the following

(1) she will deny everything she can. Do not expect the entire truth. And by the way there is no excuse for her going on dates to cafes with men you do not know that PI has confirmed

(2) do not get swayed by tears. That is not remorse at this stage. It is regret and shame at being caught.

Whoever this guy is, she need to agree to

NO CONTACT- and that means no contact of any type. She needs to write a communication that you see telling him that in no uncertain terms. The important thing is not the communication. It is her willingness to do it and do it with no hesitation. Do not accept this crap " We are just friends".

TOTAL TRANSPARENCY- she needs to give you all passwords and app passwords on all her electronics. Her right to privacy is non existant at this point. Yes, she can set up another e mail or app account, but again it is her willingness that is important initially. If she is on a cheating website, no deleting and you need to go ont that site with her before she leaves your sight so she cannot delete. It sounds like since the PI saw them only in cafe that there is a possibility that she is on Ashley Madison or a site like that and this cafe meeting could have been a "get acquainted" meeting.

The above has to be non-negotiable. That is just a start.

Again, I am sorry but as usual, the old saying trust your gut was correct

Lastly, if he is married, and she better tell you who he is, you DO NOT tell your wife but you contact the other wife and let her know what her husband is up to. If your wife goes bonkers, that means she is very involved with him and is more concerned about protecting him than you.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Friskyone4u

[zinger]

Thanks for all the wishes - I'm not able to respond to reach of you individually at the moment but your posts so far are as close to be listening rear (or I'd day crying shoulder) as I can get. Can't really call a friend right now and my family... Sufficient to say they're an odd kettle of fish.

 

This is my last post (most likely) before I get there and do something no good Christian mother would approve (and likely that I'll regret it as well). All the facts are above and these 3 points are everything tangible iI have.

 

Wrt phone calls : as mermade suggested a got the history and loaded it into excel. 1st call was approximately 2 months before my suspicions built up, the rate was increasing to couple of calls per week (not a single call longer that 10 minutes) and then stopped whatsoever shortly before I decided to write here (close to the browser crash incident).

 

Any hypothesises that can explain all of this an do not involve iinfidelity are more than welcome.

 

Thanks

[Friskyone4u]

Zinger,

 

Its time to protect Zinger and not worry about what any Christian mother or anyone else would do.

 

There is no doubt she is in an inappropriate relationship with another man. And it appears it has been going on for some time so you better prepare for the worst.

 

When you confront her, the minute you tell her how much you love her and will do anything to save your marriage, the worse it will be for you. She goes on trial here, not you.

 

It is now her job to convince you why you should give her the gift of staying with her. And if your arrival home is going to be a surprise. brace yourself.

Good luck. Wish you strength

[BetrayedH]

I don't know, bud. I'm not sure I would be convinced by any of this. I certainly wouldn't have the confidence from an 'innocent' lunch at a cafe to insist on a divorce. What's your plan here? Confront her with the fact that she didn't chain herself in the house while you were out of town? Or that she had a relationship site in her web browser?

 

I'd encourage patience.

[No Limit]

Was so hoping for a false alarm. What is wrong with people these days

 

You must be an optimist.

[velvette]

I agree with BH.

 

 

Don't tell her you have the phone number and how you got it. That just compromises your future ability to monitor who she is calling.

 

 

Bluff her and continue surveillance.

 

 

Tell her someone called you and told you they saw her at the café with another man. Demand an explanation.

 

 

Pay attention to he responses and remember if she is lying she will display her "tells".

[TobyBoy]

I suggest when you get to your home town to get a hotel room and let the PI do his job. He'll be able to get you all the info on the suspected OM, if he hasn't already. That way you confront with knowing facts and not blindly. She will lie and minimize!!! That I guarantee!!!

[TobyBoy]

Oh. Never reveal your sources!!!!!!

[RoseVille]

This is so not helpful. The point is to find patterns to particular numbers. Every single message that my husband or I send from either of our iPhones to any other phone in the world shows up on our phone bills and in all online records with our carriers. THE PHONE NUMBER shows up. THAT is the point. I don't know what you're talking about but OP will be able to track data exchanges between his wife's phone and other phones as well as calls and THAT is helpful.

 

That's just not true. It's not true. No phone numbers of IMESSAGES - you do understand that an IMESSAGE is different from a "text"/SMS, right??? - on your phone bill. PERIOD. End of story.

 

So my point was, if she has an iPhone, and the recipient of her intended messages also has an iPhone, and thus their messages are sent as iMessages, there is no possible way to trace them on a phone bill. PERIOD. So that if he's looking at the phone bill and not seeing any noticeable number that she's calling or "texting," that very well could be why! Because if she's relying on iMessages, they're not traceable on a phone bill.

[RoseVille]

And, yes, you can retrieve deleted messages. There are all kinds of spyware apps out there that do it. For iPhones, deleted messages are stored on your computer. They are not readable, however, and that's where the external app comes in. I've used 2 or 3 and it works.

 

If there isn't a second device, such as an iPad or iMac, where one's cloud links to, then deleted iMessages are gone for forever. Period. The cloud deletes them, and they're not even reachable via subpoena.

 

I do forensics with this, I know what I'm talking about.

[whichwayisup]

The gut instincts are rarely wrong in cases like these.

 

I just hope you can find a trusted buddy to talk to, having that bit of support and a pal who can cheer you up, listen to you and help you all at the same time would be beneficial to you right now.

 

Sorry that you're going through this. Shame on your wife!

[drifter777]

Confronting her now is very risky. I know right now you are crazy with fear, shock, pain, and anger and feel you have to do something, but wait. Lots of us here know how you feel. Listen to us and learn from us. You should not confront her until you have the real goods. Lets say she is having sex with him. You can't prove it with the evidence you have - you know that. And proving she is having an inappropriate emotional relationship means nothing if they are indeed physical. Wait and let your PI do his job. If he's worth anything then you have the OM's name, address, place of employment, marital status, etc. From here it will be easy to verify if they are having sex. The excitement of forbidden fruit is too much and they will hookup soon. Please wait.

 

If you attempt to bust her now she will lie about everything she can. You can't call her on these lies and she will sense how little you really know and lie more. You might think you can scare her straight and then you will have your old life back. But until you know you will have no peace and digging it out of her then will be nearly impossible.

 

If it turns out she is having sex with him the depth of what you are feeling now will be magnified ten-fold. The best advice I can give you in this case is to either make her leave or get out yourself. You will be emotionally vulnerable and in no condition to listen to her bullsh*t and manipulation. Get away from her, find a counselor, and call your lawyer.

[eric1]

Zinger,

 

You probably know this by now, but the reasons that the calls dropped off, but she still managed to meet this other guy, is that she is using an alternate form of communication.

 

Assume anything on her phone is being used, even dumb games like Clash of Clans, Words with Friends or Trivia Crack are frequently used and do not offer the ability to recover text from.