what triggers your woman to hate you ?

[Phoenician]

When i said if i am ademon for a min i meant in her view,not actually being one.

 

Pop ,the only thin i succeeded in is to mas complexity from my kids all our disagreements happens in passive aggressive mode from her side,

Now lets go back to original quest,

 

How many if you would go to their cave for somthing simple like the treadmill or like : it is you turn honney to cook , i wish u can make make more salad too.pufff 3 days of disconnection ?

[Phoenician]

If I proposed having a treadmill in the bedroom and he didn’t want it there, I would not be insulted. However, if he called me silly, lazy or selfish, or rolled his eyes or mocked me… or even if he just went on and on about not putting it in the bedroom without suggesting possible alternatives (fighting rather than solving, working together), I’d also think he was more concerned about some kind of power struggle than about where we should put the treadmill. If he didn’t want it there, I’d think we’d discuss where to put it instead. It’s only a treadmill.

 

Another thing that some “rejectable” sorts do is use the “you always…” or “you never…” or “this is just like you to…” or they dreadge up past stuff, like: “Sure, put the treadmill there, you never care what I think, just like last New Year’s when you….” I don’t deal with folks like that- at home, in social settings or at work- because they’re not concerned about teamwork and getting things done. They’re about their power-struggles. To be honest, I tend to tell them they’re right (to end the verbal stream) and then just shut them off, don’t deal with them.

 

But I’d also expect both people to be willing to give in. So if I didn’t want it there and he did, and we couldn’t agree where to put it, I’d suggest- “let’s try it here for a couple of weeks and see if it’s ok or we think of a better place.”

 

Also saying it gently wouldn’t be the determinant. Cooperation and respect as a foundation for discussion and problem-solving as a couple is the determinant.

 

In the end, it's just a treadmill....

In this ex as well as most i avoid anything that shows disrespect of her ideas , this was an ex the treadmill issue , through this ex i feel that normal ppl dont cut off for days

[TaraMaiden2]

When i said if i am ademon for a min i meant in her view,not actually being one.

 

Pop ,the only thin i succeeded in is to mas complexity from my kids all our disagreements happens in passive aggressive mode from her side,

Now lets go back to original quest,

 

How many if you would go to their cave for somthing simple like the treadmill or like : it is you turn honney to cook , i wish u can make make more salad too.pufff 3 days of disconnection ?

 

I hate to break it to you, but your question is utterly irrelevant.

Firstly, your situation is unique, like everyone else's.

Therefore, insight into what others may do or say, is futile, because it's not you, it's not her and it can have no bearing on what goes on in your home.

 

Secondly, it's pointless trying to pin down this aspect, when we really cannot comprehend how the dynamics between you and your wife, actually work.

 

 

Lastly, your relationship is long-standing, you say she has a psychological disorder, so any answers cannot take that into account, because most of us don't have to live, exist or deal with that disorder.

 

You claim you will not do certain things to move this situation along, or change it.

 

So sadly, what you refuse to change, for whatever reasons, will always stay the same.

 

While you cannot engage in altering the dynamics, the question can never be answered because even by finding an answer, the solution cannot be implemented successfully.

 

Because only one of you knows about it, or even cares.

[Phoenician]

This may sound crazy to you, but why not just say "I'm sorry" and let her have her way?

 

This is how it happened for more than 10 years

 

i became the best doormat u can think of , until I revolted again ...

[carhill]

Not healthy for marital relations, IMO, but treating them like a clinical patient does work, meaning using psychological tools to manage the interactions and disconnecting emotionally from the process, meaning not caring about them or the outcome of any particular interaction. E.g. you can't become a doormat if you don't care.

 

Personally, I've found agree and redirect has had a modicum of success, less so with a BPD'er in active demonizing, but still more productive than reasoning and challenge.

[Phoenician]

I hate to break it to you, but your question is utterly irrelevant.

Firstly, your situation is unique, like everyone else's.

Therefore, insight into what others may do or say, is futile, because it's not you, it's not her and it can have no bearing on what goes on in your home.

 

Secondly, it's pointless trying to pin down this aspect, when we really cannot comprehend how the dynamics between you and your wife, actually work.

 

 

Lastly, your relationship is long-standing, you say she has a psychological disorder, so any answers cannot take that into account, because most of us don't have to live, exist or deal with that disorder.

 

You claim you will not do certain things to move this situation along, or change it.

 

So sadly, what you refuse to change, for whatever reasons, will always stay the same.

 

While you cannot engage in altering the dynamics, the question can never be answered because even by finding an answer, the solution cannot be implemented successfully.

 

Because only one of you knows about it, or even cares.

 

Tara , thank you for your opinion ,

my marriage is rotted , we are also toggling from one seperation period to another ; I am not claiming to be perfect or right .

 

I raised the main question to learn something ; which is how normal ppl behave imn certain circumanstances ;I have been with one women for twenty years , isolated from all other females unless the relationship is purely professional .

 

So I am trying to learn normal behavior of women , trying to adapt to my situation or avoid similar issues with another women in the future .

 

Some posters replied straight forward to the main question ; others are trying to fix what they see wrong ; I am no longer and will never try to change her , but at the same time I changed myself maybe 100 times to meet the special needs of my marriage until I became the best doormat you can think off ;

 

I am not searching for empathy here ,

but now I lost the Barometer point , and I would like to know really , how normal women beahve in simple dilemmas...

[TaraMaiden2]

So I am trying to learn normal behavior of women , trying to adapt to my situation or avoid similar issues with another women in the future .

 

Some posters replied straight forward to the main question ; others are trying to fix what they see wrong ; I am no longer and will never try to change her , but at the same time I changed myself maybe 100 times to meet the special needs of my marriage until I became the best doormat you can think off ;

 

I am not searching for empathy here ,

but now I lost the Barometer point , and I would like to know really , how normal women beahve in simple dilemmas...

 

So are you aiming to divorce, or have an affair?

 

Because until you decide precisely how you are going to govern your life, such information is pointless.

 

You know, every woman is different.

It's impossible to generalise; we have been trying to tell you this throughout the thread, but you seem intent on having a definitive, concrete answer.

 

Nobody can answer your question because nobody knows what 'normal' is (we all have different coping mechanisms) and women function differently, one from the other.

 

My mother an I are extraordinarily similar in aspect and looks.

However, she is she and I am I.

Both products of our upbringing, conditioning, environments, religious influence and social positions...

 

What's the point of addressing your question when you will not change your situation NOW?

 

It's a hypothetical point...

We cannot answer your question, because there IS no one answer to your question.

[Phoenician]

The original question was targeted to venus trying to understand where is the norm ;any reader , looking deeper in this would detect that I lost at this stage the midpoint of the scale ....

 

I am not seeking fixing my marriage on LS; yet I am trying to calibrate my scale of understanding normal female behavior .

[carhill]

Healthy spouses accept that conflicts will occur and can be resolved with their partner in a positive way which respects both partners. Hate isn't a feature of their process. Sure, sometimes things get contentious but there's a basic respect and love which transcends any contention and, once things are resolved, they move forward. It takes both partners on the same page in the love and respect area to work the marital issues as a team and succeed together.

 

Since plenty of people with children divorce, I'll presume there are cultural, religious or familial aspects in play which preclude that action as a solution here. If so, you'll necessarily have to develop a different lens to view the marriage through since the current one isn't apparently working for you. You have complete control of that lens and any choices you make. If a marriage is disordered, the customs and practices normally applied to a healthy marriage are impotent and ineffective. Special attention and choices are required.

 

TBH, I got a lot of this stuff from MC. Getting professional help from a psychologist was invaluable. It also brought a modicum of peace.

[Phoenician]

So are you aiming to divorce, or have an affair?

 

Because until you decide precisely how you are going to govern your life, such information is pointless.

 

You know, every woman is different.

It's impossible to generalise; we have been trying to tell you this throughout the thread, but you seem intent on having a definitive, concrete answer.

 

Nobody can answer your question because nobody knows what 'normal' is (we all have different coping mechanisms) and women function differently, one from the other.

 

My mother an I are extraordinarily similar in aspect and looks.

However, she is she and I am I.

Both products of our upbringing, conditioning, environments, religious influence and social positions...

 

What's the point of addressing your question when you will not change your situation NOW?

 

It's a hypothetical point...

We cannot answer your question, because there IS no one answer to your question.

 

 

Tara ,

 

My marriage is over ; forget about it ,

 

I am trying now to minimize the damage .

 

we already agreed not to leave noew for the kids ...

 

we are now in separation , and we respect each other more now !

 

Eventually in few years , we will divorce .

 

I will not cheat ,when I feel to see another women , I will sit with my wife and discuss it with her .

 

Answers to my questions , won't change anything ; they will simply just adjust / calibrate my understanding to women bahavior ; because as I said I was in a nutshell , for 20 years years ...

 

The tredmill issue and others are old , now we are in another seperation phase , she is trying to approach me , but I can no longer go into same cycle again.

[elaine567]

so

The original question was targeted to venus trying to understand where is the norm ;any reader , looking deeper in this would detect that I lost at this stage the midpoint of the scale ....

 

I am not seeking fixing my marriage on LS; yet I am trying to calibrate my scale of understanding normal female behavior .

 

OK "normal" female behaviour is just like "normal" male behaviour, highly variable.

 

We do not know your wife, however we do know you act sometimes like a demon (your own words) and you seem to have a very low opinion of her as voiced here, so are you in fact projecting?

She doesn't hate you - the fact of the matter may be that you hate her.

 

Is it then any wonder she has retreated into her cave?

Living with someone who you know despises you, is pretty hard.

[Phoenician]

so

 

OK "normal" female behaviour is just like "normal" male behaviour, highly variable.

 

We do not know your wife, however we do know you act sometimes like a demon (your own words) and you seem to have a very low opinion of her as voiced here, so are you in fact projecting?

She doesn't hate you - the fact of the matter may be that you hate her.

 

Is it then any wonder she has retreated into her cave?

Living with someone who you know despises you, is pretty hard.

 

 

elaine ,

 

I think ppl in this thread are catching my words in a different way than What I really mean ; English is not my mother language ...

 

I said "act sometimes like a demon" to represent her point of view , for example when I just said "The treadmill hon can not fit in our bedroom "; or

"can you please take the girl to Pianno session , I am very tired today " : by just doing this I became a demon .

 

after such demon acts of me , she used to disconnect and go for weeks into her cave , just because I dared to disagree with her ; mind you that the more i tried to be sensual after the acts (just simple disagreement , no insult , no dispise at that time , just disagree, the more she looked at me as a week husband .

 

 

It is the black/white thing of living with a BPD ...

 

I am not asking for a justification for hating her ,

 

Yes , now I hate her , because after more than 15 years i tried my best ;

 

It is over now , I am just watching the movie of my life and learn from it .

[Phoenician]

I am finding the right answers ,

 

 

NO it is not normal that a partner and especially a female would just disconnects for days and weeks , just because her partner dared to disagree with her on something simple .

 

"especially female " because I understand that women might sometimes be more sensitive or subject to hormonal issues that push their triggers ; that is why I beleive a cave man like me should be more flexible ; but if the partner disconnects and perform passive aggressive acts for days over a simple issue : no it is not normal .

 

 

 

In my new LTR , I will make sure from day one , that my partner understand that we can even fight over something , we can disagree , we can even stop talking to each other for a reasonable time ; but the moment she makes me feel that I don't have the right , the right to disagree politely over a topic , I am out in no time .

 

I am done .

 

Divorce day is expected soon ; the delay is for the benefit of arranging kids comfort ; i am targeting to have the kids united and fairly treated.

[elaine567]

Hate is not an emotion that is healthy in a marriage.

If you do indeed hate your wife, as you now say you do, and despite her recent approaches, you are not willing to work further on the marriage, then you need to divorce and let her find someone else who doesn't hate her.

[Phoenician]

Hate is not an emotion that is healthy in a marriage.

If you do indeed hate your wife, as you now say you do, and despite her recent approaches, you are not willing to work further on the marriage, then you need to divorce and let her find someone else who doesn't hate her.

 

 

elain ,

 

I don't want to say I am a perfect man, nor claimed to be ; but the situation is the following :

 

the mom is so lazy and selfish , she doesn't even want to do any parenting , she just want to stay in Bed everyday after she finish work .

 

she workds from 900 till 2:00 i work 8:00 till six .

 

I do all commutes and trips , bring grocery , cook 3-4 times per week .

I do laundry everytime I get opportunity ; I pay all bills , take kids to doctors , I do taxes , car maintenance , etc...

 

she wash dishes 1 or 2 times per week , cook 1 or two times ;and go to work ; this is her life style in more than 15 years ...

 

 

we discussed all options and she wants to stay married to preserve her social image , I prefer too to wait until kids grow up a bit and understand the situation better .

 

she is not in dating anymore , She has the freedom to do it ; I have the freedom to do it .

 

We agreed that the one that wants to date should leave the house ;she doesn't want to do any effort in parenting but doesn't want to leave either.

 

I am leaving soon the house for her but ,

I am not ready to date yet .

i am not interested in just ONS .

 

MY main concern is that I should stay with kids , she is abusive .

[autumnnight]

I am finding the right answers ,

 

 

NO it is not normal that a partner and especially a female would just disconnects for days and weeks , just because her partner dared to disagree with her on something simple .

 

"especially female " because I understand that women might sometimes be more sensitive or subject to hormonal issues that push their triggers ; that is why I beleive a cave man like me should be more flexible ; but if the partner disconnects and perform passive aggressive acts for days over a simple issue : no it is not normal .

 

 

 

In my new LTR , I will make sure from day one , that my partner understand that we can even fight over something , we can disagree , we can even stop talking to each other for a reasonable time ; but the moment she makes me feel that I don't have the right , the right to disagree politely over a topic , I am out in no time .

 

I am done .

 

Divorce day is expected soon ; the delay is for the benefit of arranging kids comfort ; i am targeting to have the kids united and fairly treated.

 

Even if you DO get confirmation that she is not normal, what are you planning to do? Are you planning to say, "I have consulted with a lot of "Venuses," and you are not normal, wife?" Because I can tell you THAT will not go well.

[Phoenician]

not really ,

 

i was not seeking answers for her , iam seeking ones for me , i don't care anymore what to say to her .

 

all i care about are my kids , and myself from now on ...

 

i am done .

 

 

but i am definitely sure that I have to be very carefull with my next LTR

[Phoenician]

And I don't care how the whole world see her ,

 

she is B for me .

 

I am packing this week end

 

I am done .

[BlueIris]

And I don't care how the whole world see her ,

 

she is B for me .

 

I am packing this week end

 

I am done .

 

That’s good that you have decided to move out and that you two are working out a way to be apart.

 

Once you feel contempt toward your spouse, the marriage is done and blame and battle are pointless.

 

I hope that you'll feel much better in a business-like relationship with her, limited to coordinating and addressing only issues of the children and finances. Communicate and schedule like you would in business- with a colleague or client that you have to work with for another decade- and much of this emotional weight will disappear.

[Phoenician]

Thanks for your wishes ...

Wish us luck

[truncated]

elain ,

 

I don't want to say I am a perfect man, nor claimed to be ; but the situation is the following :

 

the mom is so lazy and selfish , she doesn't even want to do any parenting , she just want to stay in Bed everyday after she finish work .

 

she workds from 900 till 2:00 i work 8:00 till six .

 

I do all commutes and trips , bring grocery , cook 3-4 times per week .

I do laundry everytime I get opportunity ; I pay all bills , take kids to doctors , I do taxes , car maintenance , etc...

 

she wash dishes 1 or 2 times per week , cook 1 or two times ;and go to work ; this is her life style in more than 15 years ...

 

 

we discussed all options and she wants to stay married to preserve her social image , I prefer too to wait until kids grow up a bit and understand the situation better .

 

she is not in dating anymore , She has the freedom to do it ; I have the freedom to do it .

 

We agreed that the one that wants to date should leave the house ;she doesn't want to do any effort in parenting but doesn't want to leave either.

 

I am leaving soon the house for her but ,

I am not ready to date yet .

i am not interested in just ONS .

 

MY main concern is that I should stay with kids , she is abusive .

 

Op,reading your posts, I have to say it sounds like you are a bit scattered. First you say she does nothing, that she sits in front of the tv 15 hours a day and argues with you at the drop of a hat, that she has bpd, etc.

 

Then you say that she works outside the home, that she does cook some of the meal,s cleans a bit, etc. and that she has been able to calmly discuss your situation and come up with a plan for the next few years.

 

This doesn't sound like the same person.

 

I am not discounting what you say at all, but I do think that, for whatever reason, something seems odd about it. This makes me think that your best bet to walk away from this situation as "whole" as you can is to get some counseling and therapy for yourself.

 

It sounds like you already have a lot of the answers you are looking for on here within yourself, you just need a bit of help in finding them and clarifying your situation. Counseling will really help with this.

 

As for "normal" female behaviors? How about normal "human" behaviors...besides, does it really matter? You have to find out for yourself what you will and what you won't be able to accept in your future relationships.

[TaraMaiden2]

And I don't care how the whole world see her ,

 

she is B for me .

 

I am packing this week end

 

I am done .

 

Well that escalated.....sort of quickly...

[Rejected Rosebud]

Tara , thank you for your opinion ,

my marriage is rotted , we are also toggling from one seperation period to another ; I am not claiming to be perfect or right .

 

I raised the main question to learn something ; which is how normal ppl behave imn certain circumanstances ;

You know phoneation you have 2 threads here about how messed up your wife is, you have been married for 17 years?? And your kids are all grown up, you are not a victim of anything, either just leave her alone and move on with your life or start LOOKING at all the things you have done over the long time you have been together to help bring your relationship to where it is now, sheesh!!! :mad: Yeh I know there are crazy evil people in the world but not very many of them, you keep saying how all you ever did was ask her for more salad or say "no" to the treadmill, that is not honest, no marriage is like that, how have YOU pushed HER away and are YOU willing to do a LOT of things to change how YOU act towards her to make your marriage better??? The answer is NO so just start divorce proceedings already and I hope she and you both can find a more suitable partner and be happy again soon!!

[Phoenician]

Op,reading your posts, I have to say it sounds like you are a bit scattered. First you say she does nothing, that she sits in front of the tv 15 hours a day and argues with you at the drop of a hat, that she has bpd, etc.

 

Then you say that she works outside the home, that she does cook some of the meal,s cleans a bit, etc. and that she has been able to calmly discuss your situation and come up with a plan for the next few years.

 

This doesn't sound like the same person.

 

I am not discounting what you say at all, but I do think that, for whatever reason, something seems odd about it. This makes me think that your best bet to walk away from this situation as "whole" as you can is to get some counseling and therapy for yourself.

 

It sounds like you already have a lot of the answers you are looking for on here within yourself, you just need a bit of help in finding them and clarifying your situation. Counseling will really help with this.

 

As for "normal" female behaviors? How about normal "human" behaviors...besides, does it really matter? You have to find out for yourself what you will and what you won't be able to accept in your future relationships.

 

yes i am scattered , that's what happen when u live with bpd .

 

she is not really a bad person in heart , she is a laszy bpd .

 

read more about bpd , u will understand thier behavior.

 

she is a very normal person outside home , she works as i said 9-2...

 

and as soon as she reaches home she is a diff person ;and yes she watch 12-15 hrs continuous tv , and cooks only when we starve twice per week.

 

Now all this is no longer important ,

 

the important thing are my kids now; i am working on a good formula, wish me luck

 

 

u will no longer hear me nagging about my bpd wife , i have more imp things to do now...

[Phoenician]

You know phoneation you have 2 threads here about how messed up your wife is, you have been married for 17 years?? And your kids are all grown up, you are not a victim of anything, either just leave her alone and move on with your life or start LOOKING at all the things you have done over the long time you have been together to help bring your relationship to where it is now, sheesh!!! :mad: Yeh I know there are crazy evil people in the world but not very many of them, you keep saying how all you ever did was ask her for more salad or say "no" to the treadmill, that is not honest, no marriage is like that, how have YOU pushed HER away and are YOU willing to do a LOT of things to change how YOU act towards her to make your marriage better??? The answer is NO so just start divorce proceedings already and I hope she and you both can find a more suitable partner and be happy again soon!!

 

rose ,no body can be in others shoes ,and u see one side of the story here

,

now that real changes are occuring with separation kicked of , only time will show results ...

in few weeks i will get back on this topic ....

wish me gd luck .

 

bye