Depression as a precursor?

[elaine567]

Any situation that you are unhappy about could lead to depression. But, its not the situation itself, its how you perceive it or think about it.

 

I agree, depressed people have a disordered way of thinking.

 

All-Or-Nothing: Events are only good or only bad. They are black or white with no gray areas between the extremes. If something falls short of perfection, then it is seen as a complete failure. "My work today was a total waste of time."

Overgeneralization: You draw general conclusions based on one event or a single piece of evidence. If something bad happens one time, you see it as an unending cycle of defeat. "People are always mean to me."

Mind Reading: Even though they have not told you so, you believe you know what people think and feel about you, as well as why they behave the way they do towards you. "He thinks I'm stupid."

Catastrophizing: You expect things to turn out badly. "If I ask my boss for a raise he will yell at me."

Chain Reaction: You continue down the chain, link by link, with how one bad thing will lead to another bad thing, ending in a larger bad outcome with regard to an overall goal. "If I fail this test I won't pass this class, then I will fail out of school, then I won't graduate, then I won't get a good job, then I will be unhappy in a dead-end job forever."

What If's: You ask questions about bad or fearful things that could possibly happen in the future, while being unsatisfied with any answers. "What if something happens to her?"

Personalization: You think that things people say or do are in reaction to you, or you believe you are responsible for things people do or say. "He looked at his watch because I'm boring."

Shoulds/Musts: You have strict rules about how you and others should/must feel and behave. You feel angry if others break these rules and guilty if you break them. "I shouldn't take any time off. I must work hard all the time."

Filtering: You magnify or dwell on the negative details of a situation while ignoring all the positive ones. "Look at all the things I have done badly."

Jumping to Conclusions: You make illogical leaps in believing that A causes B without enough evidence or information to support your conclusions. "My boyfriend was late in picking me up. He doesn't really want to go out with me tonight."

Comparisons: You compare yourself to other people, trying to figure out who is better, smarter, more attractive, etc. "She is so talented. I'll never amount to anything."

Discounting Positives: You automatically discount or reject positive actions or events as if they don't matter. If you did something well, you tell yourself that it doesn't count, it wasn't good enough, or anyone could have done it as well or better. You don't allow yourself to enjoy even small accomplishments. "If I had spent more time preparing for my presentation it could have been better."

Maximization/Minimization: You maximize your problems or blow the effects of them out of proportion to the situation. Or, you minimize the value of your positive qualities. "This is the worst thing that could happen. I can’t manage it."

Blaming: You blame yourself for things that are not in your control. Or, you hold others responsible for your misfortunes. "It's my fault that my husband drinks. If I were a better wife he wouldn't do that."

Emotional Reasoning: You automatically believe that what you feel is true for you. If you feel strange, boring, stupid, etc. then you believe you are these things. "I feel embarrassed. I am so awkward and foolish."

Being Right: You are always trying to prove that your opinions and behaviors are the right ones. You cannot accept that you might be wrong or inaccurate, and you will go to great lengths to prove that you are right or others are wrong. "You don't know what you're talking about. We have to do it my way or it won't work."

Reward Fallacy: You expect to receive rewards or payoffs as a result of your own deeds or sacrifices, as if someone is keeping score. You feel angry or resentful if your actions do not reap rewards. "I spent all that time fixing a nice dinner and no one appreciated it."

Change Fallacy: You believe that if you pressure people enough they will change to suit you. You also believe they must change since you let your happiness depend on them. "If she told me she loved me more often, then I could feel happy."

Fairness Fallacy: You believe you know what is fair, but since others don't agree with you, you feel resentful or angry. "I deserve a day off from work since I worked hard over the weekend, but my boss won't allow it."

All About Depression: Online Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy Workshop

[autumnnight]

I don't see it that way. Any situation that you are unhappy about could lead to depression. But, its not the situation itself, its how you perceive it or think about it.

 

 

At the root of most depression is a sense of helplessness/hopelessness to change whatever you are feeling bad about. Hence why you felt better once you took action.

 

 

When you feel bad it may be a distinction without a difference, but its important information imo to understand that its often how we view something that is making us feel bad rather than the actual situation.

 

Ah, so my husband didn't hurt me when he neglected and refused to touch me. I hust myself because I didn't THINK about it the right way. Good to know.

[velvette]

Ah, so my husband didn't hurt me when he neglected and refused to touch me. I hust myself because I didn't THINK about it the right way. Good to know.

 

 

Who said your husband didn't hurt you? You are the only person who can say if you are hurt about something.

 

 

But, hurt is not depression. More specifically, hurt is a normal reaction, depression is an illness.

 

 

Lots of people(but not even all) would be hurt by what you describe. Most would not become clinically depressed.

 

 

People walk away from relationships that aren't in their best interest every day without being or becoming clinically depressed. They may be sad, they may grieve the loss of whatever hopes/dreams they had tied to the R, they may be stressed by the change in their life, etc, but the majority don't become clinically depressed imo.

 

 

Usually the difference is in how they are thinking about/processing the situation.

[RoseVille]

Velvette, you're speaking only to clinical depression. That's a very specific, severe, form of depression. One can suffer depression without it reaching that level. And I'd like to keep the subject open to a generalized depression, not just clinical.

[RoseVille]

This is turning into a very interesting discussion. I do think depression and relationship troubles are inextricably linked.

[RoseVille]

When you look at the symptom of real clinical depression, they are hardly conducive to infidelity are they?

Apart from perhaps No. 8 - Reckless behaviour.

Most truly depressed people would not have the motivation, confidence or the sex drive to start an affair.

 

I think there are a lot of unhappy people in marriages/relationships - not clinically depressed, just unhappy and sad.

Real depressed people are still depressed when they get promoted, win the lottery or marry the woman/man of their dreams - the happy events have little or no effect on their depression.

 

In contrast, unhappy people become happier when they feel their life has taken a better turn.

 

Your response is typical of those unfamiliar with depression, who assume in order to be "truly depressed," it must be of the clinical, severe variety. That's pretty insulting to those who suffer. It doesn't have to be. It could be dysthymia, is cyclothemia, or many other permutations. There is no one-size-fits-all with depression.

 

And the way men and women experience depression is very different. For men, it often manifests as stress and anger, and they're very able to perform sexually.

[velvette]

Velvette, you're speaking only to clinical depression. That's a very specific, severe, form of depression. One can suffer depression without it reaching that level. And I'd like to keep the subject open to a generalized depression, not just clinical.

 

 

I've used the terms interchangeably, but to me they are the same except with regard to severity and how much they are effecting your ability to function.

 

But, yes you can have mild, moderate, severe or life threatening depression.

[elaine567]

Your response is typical of those unfamiliar with depression, who assume in order to be "truly depressed," it must be of the clinical, severe variety. That's pretty insulting to those who suffer. It doesn't have to be. It could be dysthymia, is cyclothemia, or many other permutations. There is no one-size-fits-all with depression.

 

And the way men and women experience depression is very different. For men, it often manifests as stress and anger, and they're very able to perform sexually.

 

I think it is pretty insulting to assume I know little about depression, I am well aware of the differing types of depression but the symptoms of both situational and clinical depression can be very similar, the clue is often in the triggers and in clinical depression suicidal thoughts can be more prevalent.

 

Dysthymia symptoms in adults may include:

 

• Loss of interest in daily activities
  
• Sadness or feeling down
  
• Hopelessness
  
• Tiredness and lack of energy
  
• Low self-esteem, self-criticism or feeling incapable
  
• Trouble concentrating and trouble making decisions
  
• Irritability or excessive anger
  
• Decreased activity, effectiveness and productivity
  
• Avoidance of social activities
  
• Feelings of guilt and worries over the past
  
• Poor appetite or overeating
  
• Sleep problems
  

Again, these symptoms do not describe someone who is likely to indulge in an affair.

 

In cyclothymia, infidelity is associated with the hypomanic phase, not when the affected individual is depressed.

Hypersexuality, impaired judgement, poor impulse control, and grandiosity are all brought on by mania, not depression.

[RoseVille]

I've used the terms interchangeably, but to me they are the same except with regard to severity and how much they are effecting your ability to function.

 

But, yes you can have mild, moderate, severe or life threatening depression.

 

And mild and moderate wouldn't affect your ability to be attracted to and get an erection for someone who makes you feel good.

[RoseVille]

I think it is pretty insulting to assume I know little about depression, I am well aware of the differing types of depression but the symptoms of both situational and clinical depression can be very similar, the clue is often in the triggers and in clinical depression suicidal thoughts can be more prevalent.

 

 

Again, these symptoms do not describe someone who is likely to indulge in an affair.

 

In cyclothymia, infidelity is associated with the hypomanic phase, not when the affected individual is depressed.

Hypersexuality, impaired judgement, poor impulse control, and grandiosity are all brought on by mania, not depression.

 

If they have all the symptoms, and severe versions at that, I can see why you'd think that.

 

However, that's not how depression works, and if you really have any familiarity with it, you'd know that. One not need have all the symptoms, nor suffer from them severely, to suffer the illness.

 

Fact is, MANY people who have depression DO INDEED have affairs.

 

So my question was, does the depression CAUSE the affair?

 

Or are they distinct issues?

[elaine567]

Fact is, MANY people who have depression DO INDEED have affairs.

 

My contention being are they depressed as in diagnosed with depression by a psychiatrist, or are they just unhappy in their marriage?

Anyone with the recognised symptoms of real depression

Feeling the blues, loss of appetite or increased appetite, reduced sex drive, trouble sleeping, lack of energy, apathy, problems concentrating, feelings of guilt, physical pain, agitation, feelings of hopelessness, seems to me to be an unlikely candidate to go find an AP

 

I am not saying depressed people never have affairs.

People who are in affairs will get depressed if they are predisposed to the condition or external factors(including the Affair itself) cause the depression, but I guess a person who is truly acutely/chronically depressed is not going to initiate an affair.

[RoseVille]

My contention being are they depressed as in diagnosed with depression by a psychiatrist, or are they just unhappy in their marriage?

Anyone with the recognised symptoms of real depression

Feeling the blues, loss of appetite or increased appetite, reduced sex drive, trouble sleeping, lack of energy, apathy, problems concentrating, feelings of guilt, physical pain, agitation, feelings of hopelessness, seems to me to be an unlikely candidate to go find an AP

 

I am not saying depressed people never have affairs.

People who are in affairs will get depressed if they are predisposed to the condition or external factors(including the Affair itself) cause the depression, but I guess a person who is truly acutely/chronically depressed is not going to initiate an affair.

 

You keep assuming that one must have ALL of the symptoms, and have them severely, and now adding on must be diagnosed by a psychiatrist, before they can be deemed to "truly" suffer from "depression."

 

That is just straight up not accurate, at all. Your statements about this belie the fact that you are "truly" not familiar with how depression works.

 

And people who are depressed DO initiate affairs. I've seen it with my own two eyes, several times.

 

Again, you're insulting those who do suffer from the illness by invalidating their suffering just because they don't reach the highest "clinical" definition by having all of the symptoms and having them severely.

[velvette]

And mild and moderate wouldn't affect your ability to be attracted to and get an erection for someone who makes you feel good.

 

I think that depends on the person, how they are experiencing symptoms, their normal feelings about sex, whether or not they are taking meds and what kind. Some meds decrease libido and some like Wellbutrin enhance the sexual experience and could make someone want sex more than normal.

[RoseVille]

I think that depends on the person, how they are experiencing symptoms, their normal feelings about sex, whether or not they are taking meds and what kind. Some meds decrease libido and some like Wellbutrin enhance the sexual experience and could make someone want sex more than normal.

 

I know of two MM, in treatment and on meds (although I don't know what kind), who started affairs while severely depressed, and are still suffering from depression while still engaged in their affairs. One was my dad, and believe you me, he was "truly" depressed, and sought out the warmth of several other women.

 

Myself, I've suffered in the past, and the only part of my life that didn't seem to change was my desire for sex and connection with someone.

[velvette]

I know of two MM, in treatment and on meds (although I don't know what kind), who started affairs while severely depressed, and are still suffering from depression while still engaged in their affairs. One was my dad, and believe you me, he was "truly" depressed, and sought out the warmth of several other women.

 

Myself, I've suffered in the past, and the only part of my life that didn't seem to change was my desire for sex and connection with someone.

 

I think it boils down to whether the effort/energy required for any activity seems worth the temporary relief from the depression that the activity provides you.

[RoseVille]

I think it boils down to whether the effort/energy required for any activity seems worth the temporary relief from the depression that the activity provides you.

 

If only they could channel their energy away from unproductive activities (infidelity, substance abuse) and towards productive activities (exercise) that provide more long-term results/improvement. But I guess the latter would require more energy...

[elaine567]

You keep assuming that one must have ALL of the symptoms, and have them severely, and now adding on must be diagnosed by a psychiatrist, before they can be deemed to "truly" suffer from "depression."

 

That is just straight up not accurate, at all. Your statements about this belie the fact that you are "truly" not familiar with how depression works.

 

And people who are depressed DO initiate affairs. I've seen it with my own two eyes, several times.

 

Again, you're insulting those who do suffer from the illness by invalidating their suffering just because they don't reach the highest "clinical" definition by having all of the symptoms and having them severely.

 

I am afraid your anecdotal evidence is colouring your objectivity here, and closing your mind to other possibilities around the subject.

If this thread is not about debate, and more about justifying your own thoughts on the matter, then carry on...

[loveboid]

I read an experience of a person who works with suicidal teens that these teens continually try to make a connection with someone and one of their last ditch efforts is to frantically find or hang on to a gf or bf.

 

This meshes with my own experience of my high school boyfriend who tried so hard to reach out to me that my mother forbade me from contacting him back. He killed himself sometime later.

 

So, I think depressed people try to get help. Maybe with their current partner, maybe with someone else if they feel they can make that connection.

[merrmeade]

Hey, girls, rather than slinging around definitions and opinions without validating them, why not start over with something authoritative and talk about subjective opinion vs objective data just like that?

 

Wish somebody the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5). You can't access the entire publication online for free, but pieces are out there.

[Babs22]

When you look at the symptom of real clinical depression, they are hardly conducive to infidelity are they?

Apart from perhaps No. 8 - Reckless behaviour.

Most truly depressed people would not have the motivation, confidence or the sex drive to start an affair.

 

I think there are a lot of unhappy people in marriages/relationships - not clinically depressed, just unhappy and sad.

Real depressed people are still depressed when they get promoted, win the lottery or marry the woman/man of their dreams - the happy events have little or no effect on their depression.

 

In contrast, unhappy people become happier when they feel their life has taken a better turn.

 

I guess those who embark on affairs and claim they are "depressed" are just unhappy and sad with their lot in life.

An affair is a "cure" for unhappiness, not true depression.

 

This is true. My 17 year old son has clinical depression. It doesn't matter if he just had a date with his gf, or just got the lead in the school musical, he is still sad. He is on medication and so far nothing seems to help. He will tell me, I am sad when everything else in my life is going well. This is a chemical imbalance, I can't even get my H to understand this. He will ask my son why he is unhappy and then tell him why he shouldn't be (he has a gf, he has the lead, he has a nice house, a car, etc.). H obviously doesn't get it. It drives my son crazy when others tell him why he should be happy. He knows he should be happy and he knows he is not, but he desperately wants to be.

 

I look back at the start of my own A. I was not depressed, I did not need medication. I do think I was unhappy. But I wasn't sitting around thinking about how unhappy I was or what was causing it. I continued to live my life and be the same person I always was. But deep down, I know I was not happy. Being with my AP made me happy. Perhaps if I had been truly happy, the A would have never have happened.

[RoseVille]

I am afraid your anecdotal evidence is colouring your objectivity here, and closing your mind to other possibilities around the subject.

If this thread is not about debate, and more about justifying your own thoughts on the matter, then carry on...

 

Anecdotal evidence?

 

Look up DSM-V yourself. Shoot, read WebMD. Talk to a shrink. Talk to a therapist. You need not have all of the symptoms, nor have them severely, to have an accurate diagnosis of depression.

 

End of story.

[RoseVille]

I read an experience of a person who works with suicidal teens that these teens continually try to make a connection with someone and one of their last ditch efforts is to frantically find or hang on to a gf or bf.

 

This meshes with my own experience of my high school boyfriend who tried so hard to reach out to me that my mother forbade me from contacting him back. He killed himself sometime later.

 

So, I think depressed people try to get help. Maybe with their current partner, maybe with someone else if they feel they can make that connection.

 

I'm sorry you went through that; I watched a friend do the same. He was clinging to everyone he could, trying to forge a connection, as it was only those connections that made him feel life was worth living.

[RoseVille]

For MAJOR depression, need only have 5 of the 9 symptoms listed:

 

1.Depressedmoodorirritablemostoftheday,nearlyeveryday,asindicatedbyeithersubjectivereport (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful).

2. Decreasedinterestorpleasureinmostactivities,mostofeachday

3. Significantweightchange(5%)orchangeinappetite

4. Changeinsleep:Insomniaorhypersomnia

5. Changeinactivity:Psychomotoragitationorretardation

6. Fatigueorlossofenergy

7. Guilt/worthlessness:Feelingsofworthlessnessorexcessiveorinappropriateguilt

8. Concentration:diminishedabilitytothinkorconcentrate,ormoreindecisiveness

9. Suicidality:Thoughtsofdeathorsuicide,orhassuicideplan

 

http://www.psnpaloalto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Depression-Diagnostic-Criteria-and-Severity-Rating.pdf

 

For dysthymia, only need 2 of the symptoms listed:

 

Poor appetite or overeating

Insomnia or hypersomnia

Low energy or fatigue

Low self-esteem

Poor concentration or difficulty making decisions

Feelings of hopelessness

 

Persistent Depressive Disorder (Dysthymia) Symptoms | Psych Central

[Noirek]

I don't know all the fancy terms and such. I do know one doesn't need all the symptoms of any condition to be diagnosed with that condition. There are moderate to severe levels. But as to the topic, my psychologist told me depression can create an enviroment within ourselves where we make poor choices. I had ppd and I had it really bad. I didn't consciously choose an affair to feel better and at the same time I know I did. But the reason I chose to have an affair was because of my drawing to sexual deviance. Were drugs or alchohal a draw that may have been my choice. But what I should have chose was to stop being in denial over the ppd and got help.

 

I think perhaps people need to look at correlation vs causation.

[autumnnight]

There IS someone on this thread with an understanding of ddepression. It doesn't matter.. The idea that the OP is putting forth is being rejected because it might cast part of a WS situation in a sympathetic light.

 

And BTW, while an interesting inclusion, the bit about cyclothemia is not completely accurate..