Elif Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I thought Id share my experience as a girl who lost her virginity quite late, and it was not by choice. People somehow tend to believe that only men have this problem, that if you are a girl then you can get it whenever from whomever you want. That is not true. Im pretty sure I still have friends who are virgins, and some other friends who lost it much later than me. Ill make this story very short and say that I lost my virginity when I was 23. I had my first kiss when I was 20. I wasnt saving myself or anything, in fact I was quite embarrassed about it, and when it came up for some reason, when my friends would ask I would always lie about it. Nobody ever really approached me, online dating didnt go anywhere, I tried befriending some guys that I secretly had a crush on because "girls and guys cant REALLY be friends, the guy will always want more" which never ever happened ( I was totally friendzoned ). What changed things for me was that I made a good friend and we started going to bars every weekend. Not to find men or anything like that, just to have some drinks, chill out, chat with people etc... I started being more relaxed around people, around men, I wasnt expecting or looking for anything, I wasnt even there to talk to men in particular, but it did open me up to meeting people, at just talking to them and connecting to them. (While I did meet some of my first guys at a bar, Ive never had a one-night stand and i can still count all my partners on 1 hand ) What I am trying to say is that if you really want to see a positive change in your life and in yourself you cannot go about it with lies and deceit. Is this really the person you want to be? Most likely you just need to learn to connect with women as humans, as people, without expecting something, with more courage. Most likely, guys who naturally get women are just good with people and good in social situations. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
GravityMan Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 You are over thinking this, man.... <snip> The more stories I read on sites like this, the more I think guys are just shooting themselves in the foot looking for secrets and tricks...There are none..Period.. This. Especially the bolded parts. You've got to chill out and get out of your own way, Camaro Guy (and all other guys who feel similar to him). Stop thinking so much about this stuff. Many men don't devote all of their spare time to "how to get women" or "what's so special about that guy who has hot women all over him". They have their own friggin' lives and they love that, value that and take pride in it. Plus, they show at least some interest and curiosity in the world around them, including other people. And yes, many of them have girlfriends or wives, and didn't have to put forth an obscene amount of effort to "get" them because the mutual attraction was already there, often from the start. And they also tend to have both male and female friends, and are at least on good terms with some of their female friends' significant others. The overwhelming majority of men, even many of those who are shy or socially inept or have low IQ or are poor or whatever, have attracted at least a few women. And those men who have dated and had relationships with them simply had enough confidence and courage to go talk to them and ask them out (or she asked him out). You just need enough confidence to go be yourself around women. You don't need to go climb Mt. Everest in order to build that confidence. Just get out there and live your life...get to a point where you're happy just being YOU. Pursue hobbies. Exercise. Try new things and activities that interest you. Travel if you can. Socialize with others...just enjoy the moment and shoot the breeze with them without any agenda. Focus on your career if you have one. Spend less time on Internet forums. Embrace whatever quirks or unique traits/talents you have. Once you're comfortable being yourself, especially while out in public...you will start to naturally carry yourself better and with more confidence. You will exude a more positive and interesting vibe, or energy. And others will notice. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Satu Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Blame women for fostering that mentality among men. He's mostly right. Fostering how? By not going to bed with every random person who wants them to? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Camaro Guy Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) I would say that all are true except bullet #2. I haven't found that to really matter. I would also re-phrase #1 to be "morally ambiguous", not necessarily immoral. #3 and #4 are spot-on though. Also, add looks/height to it and I think you have a really good list. Amorality is not the same as immorality. Amorality is the absence of any morality whatsoever. Immorality is the opposite of being moral, basically evil for the pursuit of personal gain. Amorality is a neutral stance. Immorality is a negative stance. So yes, amorality is "morally ambiguous". Life is rarely black and white. Thus, dating is the same way. Just wanted to make that clear. A man who chooses amorality to get laid is not a man. I have no respect for him, and if he comes near my daughter....it will not be pretty. This is pathetic. Oh? Then I suppose you have no respect for Bill Clinton. Steve Jobs. Bill Gates. Larry Ellison. Thomas Edison. Many other entrepreneurs and great minds that have previously existed. These men operated or continue to operate on the gray areas in life. Microsoft and Apple revolutionized how we communicate. But Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are/were ruthless businessmen often operating under a guise of righteousness. The difference between these guys and everyone else? They appear to be philanthropic while being extremely self-serving. THAT'S social intelligence. They know how to play the game. Thus, they win. This is what every successful businessman and entrepreneur does. You can't be truthful to everyone you meet. Transparency and being an open book will get you hung out to dry with no remorse. These guys have an air of vagueness around them and let people fill in the blanks. Whether it's true or not is up for you to decide. There is no truth. Edited May 23, 2015 by Camaro Guy 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Male Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 A man who chooses amorality to get laid is not a man. I have no respect for him, and if he comes near my daughter....it will not be pretty. This is pathetic. True....I agree with you. But women keep giving in to it, not learning from their own mistakes, or mistakes of women around them. All the while continuing to ignore the guys that respect them. Many women cause their own problems as far as dating and getting used for the simple fact of seeing red flags, but not acting on them. Guys that choose amorality will continue to do so because enough women continue to prove it works. Period. Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 A lot of my friends are very "grey" when it comes to girls. They do whatever it takes to get a girl. I have one friend who is an upstanding guy. He donates to charities, is kind to everyone, has nothing but positivity. But he is an absolute rake when it comes to women. He will exaggerate, lie, do whatever it takes for him to get laid. He said he thinks he's been with 50+ women but he lost count a long time ago. If a person lies, exaggerates, and "does whatever it takes" (eg takes a pragmatic approach, eg 'the ends justify the means') to getting women, assuming his personal morals are those defined by his other acts of charity and that he supposedly values honesty and integrity, etc., he's not being amoral, he's being immoral. He's knowingly defying his values, which makes him a hypocrite and intellectually dishonest. Amorality is not a willy-nilly application of morality. If a person's philosophical position is that honesty is a virtue and one that they value and ascribe to, that person can't then choose to abandon that tenet of his philosophy on a whim in the interest of "getting women." He's actually not the person he thinks he is or the one he's trying to fool people into thinking he is if he behaves that way. Is that the person you really want to be? Fair enough if it is, but don't fool yourself into thinking you'll be chic'ly "amoral" any other fancy relativist term. You'll be a self-deceiving, lying scumbag like your 'hero' is. For the record, I don't actually believe this mythical guy actually exists in your life, and I don't believe you have any real intention of attempting to start 'scoring women' this way, or that you'd have the slightest bit of success even if you tried. This thread's just yet another women-blaming/personal failure rationalization. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I remember David Deida said in his book "The Way of the Superior Man", he said, " You are only hurting yourself if you want to be in a relationship with a woman more so than she wants to be with you", and yet many women use the stubborn argument that if he is truly into you, he will make it happen, pursue you, ask you out, they kinda imply that its better that the man be more interested in the beginning, and yet that's the damn paradox there. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Camaro Guy Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 If a person lies, exaggerates, and "does whatever it takes" (eg takes a pragmatic approach, eg 'the ends justify the means') to getting women, assuming his personal morals are those defined by his other acts of charity and that he supposedly values honesty and integrity, etc., he's not being amoral, he's being immoral. He's knowingly defying his values, which makes him a hypocrite and intellectually dishonest. Amorality is not a willy-nilly application of morality. If a person's philosophical position is that honesty is a virtue and one that they value and ascribe to, that person can't then choose to abandon that tenet of his philosophy on a whim in the interest of "getting women." He's actually not the person he thinks he is or the one he's trying to fool people into thinking he is if he behaves that way. Is that the person you really want to be? Fair enough if it is, but don't fool yourself into thinking you'll be chic'ly "amoral" any other fancy relativist term. You'll be a self-deceiving, lying scumbag like your 'hero' is. But getting with women is only one aspect of his personality. Yet, he has done no physical harm or emotional harm to anyone. Dating operates on a whole different but parallel plane than regular interactions. When most people apply for a job, they exaggerate or lie about their experience in order to secure the position. Do the ends justify the means then? Or is it because dating is a touchy subject? When you are vague with responses and shroud yourself, you allow the other person to fill in the blanks. When you omit details, you allow the other person to fill in the blanks. When you exaggerate, you are still telling the truth but in an hyperbolic fashion. When it comes to getting what you want, there is nothing wrong in any of the above. The people who mastered social intelligence know this. You have to know how to play the game. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I remember David Deida said in his book "The Way of the Superior Man", he said, " You are only hurting yourself if you want to be in a relationship with a woman more so than she wants to be with you", and yet many women use the stubborn argument that if he is truly into you, he will make it happen, pursue you, ask you out, they kinda imply that its better that the man be more interested in the beginning, and yet that's the damn paradox there. And David Deida, whoever he is, is correct is he? He knows it all? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 You have to know how to play the game. its all about the game Link to post Share on other sites
Author Camaro Guy Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 I can see why people are getting mad. As kids, we are always taught "good guys win, bad guys go to blazes". If that were true, that would be awesome. But we don't live in that world. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I can see why people are getting mad. As kids, we are always taught "good guys win, bad guys go to blazes". If that were true, that would be awesome. But we don't live in that world. in the real world good guys lose Link to post Share on other sites
calvincline47 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I can see why people are getting mad. As kids, we are always taught "good guys win, bad guys go to blazes". If that were true, that would be awesome. But we don't live in that world. This is nothing new, man. Just google this concept and you'll have millions of hits. Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 But getting with women is only one aspect of his personality. Yet, he has done no physical harm or emotional harm to anyone. Dating operates on a whole different but parallel plane than regular interactions. When most people apply for a job, they exaggerate or lie about their experience in order to secure the position. Do the ends justify the means then? Or is it because dating is a touchy subject? When you are vague with responses and shroud yourself, you allow the other person to fill in the blanks. When you omit details, you allow the other person to fill in the blanks. When you exaggerate, you are still telling the truth but in an hyperbolic fashion. When it comes to getting what you want, there is nothing wrong in any of the above. The people who mastered social intelligence know this. You have to know how to play the game. You're deluding yourself, but I have no intention of getting into the inane and endless debate I think you're fishing for yet again. Good luck with life ....you're gonna need it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Good luck with life ....you're gonna need it. ^^^^ My thoughts exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Camaro Guy Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Good luck with life ....you're gonna need it. You should be saying that to someone who really needs it, like someone who just lost their job. I'm on the up and up. Thanks for the wishes regardless. Link to post Share on other sites
William Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 With all the well wishes out of the way, let's get back to discussing what guys who get a lot of girls understand about getting those girls. Link to post Share on other sites
aloneinaz Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Camero guy, You appear to be a fairly well read, intelligent guy. Meeting and connecting with women is not rocket science. Yes, some guys are naturally better at than others. At the end of the day, you need to be yourself, be genuine, have decent people skills. Most men and women can smell BS when it's presented to them. If you haven't had success, CHANGE what you're doing. Invest you free time in working on your people skills, appearance and sociability. You have to understand that even ugly guys and girls get laid. The number one reason I see people not having success is deep self esteem issues which causes havoc in what confidence they may have. As such, they never put them self in a position of possible rejection. Link to post Share on other sites
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 And David Deida, whoever he is, is correct is he? He knows it all? well that book seems to have all or most of the positive approval, endorsement of many dating coaches/guru's out there Link to post Share on other sites
SycamoreCircle Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Why would a guy want to get a lot of girls? Women stink. Women fart. Women take themselves too seriously. Women blab too much. Women complain all the time. Women wear too much make up. Women gossip. Women backstab. Woman act petty. Women are deceptive. Women want you to read their minds. Woman want to argue with you. Women avoid conflict. Concentrate on meeting a woman. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I would imagine it's all about being in the right mental and emotional state, that's not all of it but it is very huge Link to post Share on other sites
loveweary11 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 well that book seems to have all or most of the positive approval, endorsement of many dating coaches/guru's out there Dating gurus? Coaches? Sherpas? Every person holds, in their heart and mind, the key to successful dating. Like most things in life, it takes work, self reflection, astute observation and comes mostly from within. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 This stuff does tend to work very well in getting men a lot of female admiration but it won't get you a quality woman. Part of being a quality woman is rejecting this kind of crap instead of jumping in because you feel so much passion and chemistry. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 This stuff does tend to work very well in getting men a lot of female admiration but it won't get you a quality woman. Part of being a quality woman is rejecting this kind of crap instead of jumping in because you feel so much passion and chemistry. Just as guys can't resist a pretty face with nice boobs and a tight ass, women are attracted to certain things as well. The charismatic, super-confident alpha/pack-leader is going to get more female attention than a nice guy. They can't help it- it's in their genes. I'm just talking about attraction, attention and opportunity. When I was about 13 years old a few of my buddies and I planned to camp out in the wood adjacent to the neighborhood. We heard that several of the popular girls our age were sleeping out in a camper in one of the girl's backyard. So we told them to expect us. This was about the age that we were all about stealing kisses and such- not ready for more. The girls were more mature physically but they were all virgins, as were we. So we wait a couple of hours after dark and sneak on over and they invited us into the camper. Everybody was nervous and it was close quarters so we didn't know how to go about getting the party started. One of the girls pulled out a deck of cards and said let's play cards. Well, it just happened that I had found a book a few weeks earlier on how to do card tricks and I had been practicing dealing from the bottom of the deck. We were playing poker or something where the winner deals. Well, once I finally got the deal I started winning every hand. And when I realized that they weren't able to see what I was doing--only the result--I started acting like a big shot. I was grinning and laughing and carrying on as I just kept dealing myself aces and winning and winning. I kept turning up the confidence and charisma. It was magic! Not the card tricks––the effect that it had on those girls. Next thing I know they're all trying to get close to me, touching and making eyes like I was a sultan or something. I ended up with the two hottest ones next to me on either side and suggested that we quit playing cards (said it was boring, ha ha) and turn out the lights. Next thing I know I have these two girls all over me, kissing and cooing... they were friggin mesmerized! And they didn't mind one bit that it was 2 on 1 either. We started out with the equal numbers, so one guy got left our and went sulking off. I had never been the guy who always got the girls; this was a revelation. I never did become a player type or whatever.... but from that moment on I understood that women have an involuntary switch and they love it when a guy figures out how to flip it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SycamoreCircle Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Great story, Sal... Link to post Share on other sites
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