Any OW's out there hold on and get a relationship with OM?

[Decisiontomake]

Wow everyone - thank you SO MUCH for all your responses. I'll try and answer a few direct questions.

 

 

His relationship with is wife: they have had one vacation as a family in the three years I've known him, and during that he would find a way to speak or email with me each day. I believe he does love her - just as I love/d my H before I left - but as a friend/mother of his child, not as his wife.

 

 

Distance/location: yes we live in different countries, but he visits mine every eight weeks or so for a couple of weeks at a time, and I too would be able to visit his inbetween his trips. So if we were in an open relationship I would see him for about 4 weeks out of every 8 BUT with unrestricted access/communication inbetween - big difference. I would be totally fine with that set up.

 

 

I am so so torn as to what my heart wants to do (cling on) and what my head tells me (let him figure it out and if it's meant to be etc), but as one poster here has kindly shared, I don't believe he'll leave without my support/enticement to do so. When I say enticement, I mean that I can see the future in all things, more than he can. He's a very "if I can't touch it/see it" kinda guy and I think that would keep him where he is.

 

 

It's pathetic - it really is - I have a great life. I've dragged myself through the pain of a separation from my H, and managed to rebuild myself throughout that trauma. I'm feel so certain of the great relationship we could have - realistically, not like a teenage rose tinted way - that letting it go without this fight seems impossible.

 

 

I really am so grateful for you all sharing your stories, and your views on where I'm at. It helps immensely. I wish I could share some of your stories with him, but he'd probably think I was insane for going onto this site to try and gain insight - lol.

[RoseVille]

No kid, of any age wants to know about their parents sex lives!

 

Children can tell if their parents love each other simply by observing affection, or lack thereof.

 

Does your MM still actively go on family outings with his wife? Do they go on vacation together, go on date nights, spend time with other couples, celebrate holidays, and are involved with parents/ in laws etc?

 

Their lives revolve around their kids' sports/activities. Their couple friends are the parents of their kids' friends. They haven't had a vacation, as a family or as a couple, in over 5 years. Date nights are non-existent. If they have a free Friday or Saturday night, they spend it with their same-sex friends.

 

Take a break, if anything, keep in touch through email but don't see him. Really think it through, what it is you can/can't put up with because if things stay as they are now, you'll still be his OW 10 years from now, or until you two get caught by his wife.

 

I have to see him and interact with him fairly regularly because of our careers, which neither one of us are going to change. It's a non-option, and the details on not going to get into as they'd easily identify us.

[whichwayisup]

Children can tell if their parents love each other simply by observing affection, or lack thereof.

 

 

 

Their lives revolve around their kids' sports/activities. Their couple friends are the parents of their kids' friends. They haven't had a vacation, as a family or as a couple, in over 5 years. Date nights are non-existent. If they have a free Friday or Saturday night, they spend it with their same-sex friends.

 

 

 

I have to see him and interact with him fairly regularly because of our careers, which neither one of us are going to change. It's a non-option, and the details on not going to get into as they'd easily identify us.

 

Glad you answered, but the questions were for Decisiontomake.

[minimariah]

OP - are you & were you dating during your A? how would he react if you started seemingly moving on? how would he react to an ultimatum, you giving him some kind of time frame - like if you said: MM, you got three months to make up your mind and then i'm out of here - what do you think would happen?

 

p.s. rose, you're so cute lol

Edited May 26, 2015 by minimariah

[RoseVille]

What if they're comfortably happy and the wife is completely unaware of any supposed 'unhappiness?' What if they do have sex and it's not boring but very satisfying?

 

Not EVERY marriage where someone is having an affair is an unhappy, sexless, passionless liaison. Sometimes, people have affairs because they're just plain selfish and want MORE.

 

I've known quite a few people JUST like that.

 

She's may be in a happy-ish marriage; at best, he's content, but certainly not satisfied. Content people cheat. Satisfied people do not.

 

Whether you're "happy" content or satisfied depends on your own views. But I certainly don't consider them the same thing. Content to me is "meh."

[minimariah]

I am saddened at reading how many people think it is noble to stay with the wife for the kids.

 

well - you can cheer up because most people actually DON'T think that it's noble to stay together for the kids. people are saying that you don't need to scream "DIVORCE!!!!" at every single situation with MM/MW & OW/OM you read about. sometimes, staying in a roommate-like marriage IS better than divorce -- it depends on the situation because not every child will react the same & not every family is the same.

 

What does this leave for the wife?

 

her family unit being intact + in most cases she doesn't know she's being cheated on, so she really doesn't know that she has a husband who doesn't love her.

 

Sorry, she deserves to find love, not someone to be her friend.

 

and how do you know she'll find love after divorce?

this myth that a BS will be happier after divorce because she will "get a chance at finding real love" is a bunch of crap & needs to go. for MANY, mediocre marriage is better than any marriage -- keep that in mind.

 

My guy stayed for the kids. They didn't hate one another but she is dysfunctional and he put up with it.

 

your dude, if i remember correctly (& i do) -- spent years in an abusive relationship with an alcoholic so that really isn't the best example. we're talking about GOOD... OK relationships over here when people do get along but are missing passion or something else -- roommate-like relationship. WITHOUT an abusive alcoholic and all that.

 

He is SO glad he left, but really, I don't know if he would have left without my support.

 

you're probably right about this - people who know how to leave an unhealthy relationship on their own usually won't find themselves in an unhealthy relationship that long to begin with. i've never really seen someone in an abusive, unhealthy and unhappy relationship FOR YEARS that didn't need another person to pull them out. that being said, the OP's MM probably won't go anywhere if she doesn't "push" him.

Edited May 26, 2015 by minimariah

[minimariah]

Every single person in our world is better off with us together except one person and if you think I feel sorry for a drunk who denied my guy the basic things that a husband should expect, you would be right.

 

you do realize that calling an alcoholic a "drunk" is actually extremely insensitive & offensive because alcoholism is, IN FACT - classified as a mental disorder. you don't need to add to the shame & the stigma of alcoholism, so check yourself because you constantly do it. notice how you focused on your H's feelings next to someone who is troubled and has a mental disorder - she's an alcoholic... and you're mad because she didn't "take care of her H"? amazing.

 

But it took me a long time to reach that point. Seeing the destruction in HER wake was far larger, more far reaching and heinous than the affair or even the fact that my guy left her.

 

The only one who can help her... is her.

 

no, sweetheart. no.

another myth from folks who have 0 knowledge about mental health.

 

she needs help from OTHERS because you can't "cure" yourself from alcoholism. your husband failed to help her and i assume, everyone around her - that's what often happens in relationships with alcoholics... their spouses, instead of helping them, snatch the kids away & simply leave.

 

no one becomes an alcoholic for absolutely no reason & over night, you remember that.

[minimariah]

Pushing bad supporting are not the same. I never pushed. But I sure as he'll was there for him when he ended his farce of a 'marriage'.

 

you "pushed" by being there -- indirectly. having someone on the side and having a secure relationship so you don't have to step into the unknown is an amazing push forward AND out of an unhealthy relationship. like, i'm sure he had other supportive folks who were there for him yet he decided to divorce only when he met you -- when he had a safe transition, pretty much.

 

so yes, you most definitely gave him a push.

 

and once again - stop mocking & making fun of and shaming a serious disorder such as alcoholism when it's clear you know nothing about it.

 

as someone who is in mental health field - i'm offended every single time you start with his abusive X & you mentioned it so many times that i know your entire story by heart already. telling.

Edited May 26, 2015 by minimariah

[goodyblue]

you do realize that calling an alcoholic a "drunk" is actually extremely insensitive & offensive because alcoholism is, IN FACT - classified as a mental disorder. you don't need to add to the shame & the stigma of alcoholism, so check yourself because you constantly do it. notice how you focused on your H's feelings next to someone who is troubled and has a mental disorder - she's an alcoholic... and you're mad because she didn't "take care of her H"? amazing.

 

But it took me a long time to reach that point. Seeing the destruction in HER wake was far larger, more far reaching and heinous than the affair or even the fact that my guy left her.

 

 

 

no, sweetheart. no.

another myth from folks who have 0 knowledge about mental health.

 

she needs help from OTHERS because you can't "cure" yourself from alcoholism. your husband failed to help her and i assume, everyone around her - that's what often happens in relationships with alcoholics... their spouses, instead of helping them, snatch the kids away & simply leave.

 

no one becomes an alcoholic for absolutely no reason & over night, you remember that

 

Their kids would have been better off if he had snatched them and left rather than stay and try to help her with AA, therapy, through their priest, family, on and on, all of which was refused by her, so please, stop making this about me and move on. You don't know what you are talking about.

 

Everyone is better off being away from that mess and only she can fix it. Nobody can lock her up. Sometimes you have to cut away that anchor to save the whole rest of the boat.

Edited May 26, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Quotes

[goodyblue]

you "pushed" by being there -- indirectly. having someone on the side and having a secure relationship so you don't have to step into the unknown is an amazing push forward AND out of an unhealthy relationship. like, i'm sure he had other supportive folks who were there for him yet he decided to divorce only when he met you -- when he had a safe transition, pretty much.

 

so yes, you most definitely gave him a push.

 

and once again - stop mocking & making fun of and shaming a serious disorder such as alcoholism when it's clear you know nothing about it.

 

as someone who is in mental health field - i'm offended every single time you start with his abusive X & you mentioned it so many times that i know your entire story by heart already. telling.

 

When he met me? I have k own him 20 years. He waited til his kids were raised. Which was not the right thing, wasting half his life.

[William]

Folks, let's get back to reading stories about affair partners holding on and getting a relationship, or not, and the challenges and successes along the way. Our prime directive is to provide a helpful and collaborative environment to assist thread starters with their interpersonal relationships. Member cooperation is encouraged. Thanks in advance for giving such cooperation.

[anika99]

I am saddened at reading how many people think it is noble to stay with the wife for the kids.

 

What does this leave for the wife? A husband who doesn't love her. Yippie!! Yay for her!! She sure lucked out!!

 

Sorry, she deserves to find love, not someone to be her friend. I have enough friends.

 

If you do not love your spouse romantically, let them go.

 

My guy stayed for the kids. They didn't hate one another but she is dysfunctional and he put up with it. He wasted SO much of his life being lonely, it is pathetic.

 

He is SO glad he left, but really, I don't know if he would have left without my support.

 

OP, you can support him in his leaving if he is serious, but it is not for the faint of heart and in truth, he may never actually follow through, which means a lot of wasted time on your part.

 

Take care of YOU first. Like an oxygen mask on an airplane, all that...

 

Why do you assume that the woman is powerless and clueless? I think most women in marriages lacking romantic love are fully aware of the situation and can leave should they choose to do so. I think some couples who are good friends and good parents both agree to stay together until some later point down the road for the good of their children. If they both agree that the well being of their children is a higher priority then finding that person to make their heart go pitter patter then that is their business.

 

 

I didn't say it's noble but sometimes parents don't need to have their every need immediately attended to at the expense of their children. Their are lots of single parents who are lacking in the romantic love department, their are lots of childless people who are lacking in the romantic love department. So what? There is no God given right that says everyone is entitled to live every day in hot passionate love with an amazing soul mate. Lots and lots of people live everyday without being madly in love and they are still happy. If two reasonable mature adults decide together that stability and security for their children are their immediate priority and they will seek their own romantic happiness later on, who can judge them for that? Who can say that they are wrong?

[Decisiontomake]

There are strong emotions for everyone involved in this situation; the OM, OW, BS etc. We are all human and fallible, and sometimes make "mistakes" with who we find ourselves falling in love with. I'm not saying I didn't cultivate, knowingly, a relationship with my AP because I did. I didn't believe though that it would lead to what I feel now and the emotional and mental pain that comes with all of that.

 

 

Of course we can debate the issue - from the perspective we have personally - so if I'm a BS (which I have been), then your views are very different to if you are the OM. Again, it's human nature.

 

 

I do really appreciate all the views that are shared here as they do make me stop and question and digest. But I also believe that there are ways to make those views that do not seem attacking in nature, or that do not then spark anger and heated/negative discussions.

 

 

I love this man - god help me I wish I didn't - and I believe he feels the same way. I would support him in any way I could to transition into a different dynamic with his child - for him and the child involved. I'm not a monster. I'm a mum, a woman and a human - my aim is not to hurt anyone but I too am hurting. And yes, it could be argued that my hurt is self facilitated - I understand that viewpoint too. But the BS could also be accused of self facilitating a marriage in which neither are fulfilled. That's what I mean by perspectives being different depending on what part you're playing in a situation.

 

 

As an aside, my H had been married previously before we met - he had two children who were 7 and 9 when we started dating. I worked my a$$ off to keep those kids stable - even having them live with us for two years when I was only in my early 20's and ill equipped to take on such a monumentous task.

 

 

Am rambling a bit now, but again thank you all for your continued support.

[RoseVille]

I also wanted to add, as to the OP:

 

My MM's brother and his cousin each had an affair, each were less than a year long. They all have young children. Both guys left their wives for their AP. Both are still together a few years later; although with one, he went through a bit of a back and forth, not knowing if he wanted his OW or to be single and play the field. Apparently, it's all amicable now, but the Ds were rough going.

 

Unfortunately, it's knowledge of their "success" that keeps me holding on, too.

[Decisiontomake]

Unfortunately, it's knowledge of their "success" that keeps me holding on, too.

 

 

Ugh - get that totally!

[DKT3]

Ugh - get that totally!

 

I think something you need to look at is the length of your affair. If you take notice of those OW/MOW that ended up with their AP it all happened in that one year time frame. You are now working on your fourth year of involvement. Not only that you checked out of your marriage moved out and spent a year waiting already. Before, in conversations with me you weren't honest with yourself about the motives behind your actions. Which is you moved the pieces in your life to be with MM. He to this point hasn't moved his needle any closer towards that goal that you have of being together.

 

At this point he has no motivation to do so, why would he? You are after all waiting around for whatever he is willing to give you. How much more time of you life will you watch go by while he is living his?

[cocorico]

I think something you need to look at is the length of your affair. If you take notice of those OW/MOW that ended up with their AP it all happened in that one year time frame. You are now working on your fourth year of involvement.

 

Wrong. Our A was three and a bit years long - or, add another year if you want to include the year between separation and divorce, even though we were were living together for much of that time.

[DKT3]

Wrong. Our A was three and a bit years long - or, add another year if you want to include the year between separation and divorce, even though we were were living together for much of that time.

 

Your talking from the start of affair to divorce. I'm talking from the start of affair to the point where his actions show he is working towards that goal.

Edited May 27, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[cocorico]

Your talking from the start of affair to divorce. I'm talking from the start of affair to the point where his actions show he is working towards that goal.

 

 

You can read my previous posts if you're unable to follow my history. From the start of our affair, until the point of "his actions showing he was working towards the goal", would be three and a bit years. As I said, there was a further year *on top of that* if you want to count "start of A to D". Then it would be four and a bit years.

 

I'm sorry you find it so confusing.

Edited May 27, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[cocorico]

Advice from any OWs that did "wait" would be appreciated or advice from thosw that want to try and get my head on straight would also help. Thank you.

 

I am now M to my fMM. Our A lasted three and a bit years, at which point he left his M and filed for D. We have been happily married for several years now.

 

However, I'm not sure I'd classify that as "waiting". At no point in the R did I feel that I was treading water while he "caught up" - in fact, he moved out and was ready to star our life together months before I was ready to join him, which wasn't a bad thing as it gave him and the kids time to settle into a new family form without the XBW. If I had felt that I was "waiting", I'm sure I'd have gotten tired of it and moved on. Life is short.

 

If your R *today* is giving you enough - or at least, the advantages of staying in it outweigh the advantages of leaving, then by all means stay. But if you do feel you're putting your life on hold while he catches up, then waiting will make you resentful and will undermine the prospects of a successful LTR. Worse, it will put him and his needs at the centre of the R, and you and yours at the periphery. That is not a healthy dynamic to carry into a long-term relationship.

 

What was your rationale for NC last time - and what has changed? Is it simply that he is now saying, yes, I would like to be with you... but I can't leave my son, or has something else changed too?

[Decisiontomake]

Before, in conversations with me you weren't honest with yourself about the motives behind your actions. Which is you moved the pieces in your life to be with MM. He to this point hasn't moved his needle any closer towards that goal that you have of being together.

 

 

Hi DK

 

 

I did not leave my marriage to be with my MM. I left my marriage because it was not right for me. I had said that I would have entered into a relationship with MM once I'd become separated when I've had posts with you, but that was not why I rearranged my life and went through the sheer hell of separation. The only thing I may have lied to myself about is how much I feel for the MM, which is only now coming to the true surface.

Edited May 27, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[Decisiontomake]

I am now M to my fMM. Our A lasted three and a bit years, at which point he left his M and filed for D. We have been happily married for several years now.

 

However, I'm not sure I'd classify that as "waiting". At no point in the R did I feel that I was treading water while he "caught up" - in fact, he moved out and was ready to star our life together months before I was ready to join him, which wasn't a bad thing as it gave him and the kids time to settle into a new family form without the XBW. If I had felt that I was "waiting", I'm sure I'd have gotten tired of it and moved on. Life is short.

 

If your R *today* is giving you enough - or at least, the advantages of staying in it outweigh the advantages of leaving, then by all means stay. But if you do feel you're putting your life on hold while he catches up, then waiting will make you resentful and will undermine the prospects of a successful LTR. Worse, it will put him and his needs at the centre of the R, and you and yours at the periphery. That is not a healthy dynamic to carry into a long-term relationship.

 

What was your rationale for NC last time - and what has changed? Is it simply that he is now saying, yes, I would like to be with you... but I can't leave my son, or has something else changed too?

 

 

Thank you for sharing. I do feel like I'm waiting, yes, and I get all that you say about what that means and brings with it.

 

 

The change for me right now is that he admitted that he wants a normal relationship with me, but can't leave his son. Before it was just "I can't leave my son" and never once did he admit that he wanted a relationship with me so I always questioned if that was one of his reasons for not leaving too - that he didn't want to be with me enough to do so.

 

 

I think the absence, and then the strength felt when we got back in touch, made him realize that and it just opened up for me all the feelings/hopes I had worked so hard to box up during NC.

[Decisiontomake]

OP - are you & were you dating during your A? how would he react if you started seemingly moving on? how would he react to an ultimatum, you giving him some kind of time frame - like if you said: MM, you got three months to make up your mind and then i'm out of here - what do you think would happen?

 

p.s. rose, you're so cute lol

 

Hi there, no I was not, and am not dating since leaving my marriage just over a year ago. I don't know re the ultimatum, but I'd be scared to let myself go within any timeframe stated - i.e. to really start feeling fully for him again (not that I'm far off!), but to relax into that knowing what further heartbreak were to come, would be really hard.

[the_artist_1970]

Pushing bad supporting are not the same. I never pushed. But I sure as he'll was there for him when he ended his farce of a 'marriage'.

 

Goodyblue, not everyone can handle "helping" an alcoholic and taking spousal abuse so don't allow ppl to criticize your DH from getting out of an abusive M. And you were there for him. You were his rock when he needed someone to hold onto. You two found each other when you needed someone and it sounds like you two are happy. I think your guy did the honorable thing and left to be with someone he could live with and enjoy the rest of his life with. Hopefully his xw will get the help she needs to become healthy and whole. Staying for the kids is hogwash IMHO.

[Decisiontomake]

So, I've sent an email having digested all of your comments. I've told him (again), that I want to be with him but that for both mine and his sake, he now needs to do some proper work on figuring this out. Not in his own head, but IC, and looking at the tangible/logistic elements of what his life could look like if he were to leave so that he can figure out if that gives him "enough" with his son. I've said if he agrees to this, I won't mention it again until his next trip here (which will be in 8 or so weeks, or unless he wants my support/input with it), and that within that time I will enjoy myself with him as we have done historically with our communication when we are not physically together. If at that point he's done the work and has figured out that he can accept and re-engage in his marriage and that he is really not going to leave, then I will heal my heart and move on. I don't know what else to say to him other than all of that, but admit to not being ready to really come to terms with it being over if that's the course this takes.