Any OW's out there hold on and get a relationship with OM?

[MissBee]

So, I'd done four months of NC. Four months! That had been painful, sad, full of missing him BUT had also seen me regain my strength and start to move forward and be OK!

 

We were in a A for 3 years. I left my marriage a year ago, and am now selling my home and moving forward with an amicable divorce.

 

I spent Saturday night with my AP. He has never future faked with me. We have always been honest with each other over that. Same old same old that he wants to leave his wife but not his six year old. He simply can't see past that - not just as in his fear of what that will do to his son, but in the unfettered 24/7 access and life he has with him for himself and his own needs as a dad.

 

He finally admitted to me that he does want us to be in a relationship. He does want a normal life with me BUT he still also says he is close to making the break but can't fathom a way to do it without damaging the dynamic he wants with his son.

 

As I type this I know I'm sounding typical - believing what he says. The reason I do is because we've never - or rather he has never - lied about the likelihood of leaving.

 

So I'm stuck. I can live without him but I don't want to. The thought of telling him to leave me alone until he does make that break is obviously the sensible thing to do but I know him. He will simply switch off and will remain in his marriage if I disappear. He seems to think it's some kind of noble sacrifice.

 

Advice from any OWs that did "wait" would be appreciated or advice from thosw that want to try and get my head on straight would also help. Thank you.

 

If you choose to wait I'd say put some SPECIFIC parameters and timeline on it, for yourself, not for him. How long will you be willing to wait? One year, 2 , 3, 4, 9?

 

The problem is though the more you wait the harder it is to let go. My friend has been with a MM for 6 years, when I met her the MM's son was also 6 years old, she has been waiting for him to leave since before we were friends...there she is still an OW...still rationalizing, in turmoil, breaking up and getting back with him, resigning herself to it one day and being angry the next, but at the end of it she's admitted that because she's invested 6 years into it it makes it harder to let go. On one hand it's easy if you're for example a year in to feel like you can wait, but it's also the easiest to leave the less time you've spent, as the more and more you stay and nothing changes it also makes you more attached and feel like you can't live without them even more.

 

If you decide to wait, I'd have parameters on how long and what needs to happen for you to continue to wait. But just waiting indefinitely with wishy washy hopes on his part or yours doesn't make sense.

 

If you choosing your sanity means he will stay married, I'd ask if that's a guy you even want. Seriously. He shouldn't be leaving just for you. It's not something you should be burdened with. He should leave because he is done. He should also realize that you have to preserve your sanity and can't wait forever, so if he is going to simply stay if you decide to break things off until he gets himself together, I'd consider if that's a man you feel has your best interest at heart.

 

At the end of the day though, trust me, he may be great or whatever else you believe, but he's not your last chance. So if his circumstances are impossible...weigh it carefully. It's like any other relationship in that sometimes you and a man may like or love each other but the circumstances are simply not right and one or both of you has to walk away....it may hurt but it's probably not meant to be if it's mostly an uphill battle and most people do move on and find someone else who they like or love just as much or more who also has better circumstances and can actually give them the relationship they want.

[goodyblue]

Why do you assume that the woman is powerless and clueless? I think most women in marriages lacking romantic love are fully aware of the situation and can leave should they choose to do so. I think some couples who are good friends and good parents both agree to stay together until some later point down the road for the good of their children. If they both agree that the well being of their children is a higher priority then finding that person to make their heart go pitter patter then that is their business.

 

 

I didn't say it's noble but sometimes parents don't need to have their every need immediately attended to at the expense of their children. Their are lots of single parents who are lacking in the romantic love department, their are lots of childless people who are lacking in the romantic love department. So what? There is no God given right that says everyone is entitled to live every day in hot passionate love with an amazing soul mate. Lots and lots of people live everyday without being madly in love and they are still happy. If two reasonable mature adults decide together that stability and security for their children are their immediate priority and they will seek their own romantic happiness later on, who can judge them for that? Who can say that they are wrong?

 

 

Just because some women in marriages lacking romantic love are aware of the situation doesn't mean it is ideal, doesn't mean they are happy either. Being "okay" and being "happy" are different things. And if someone chooses to stay in that situation, of course that is their choice to do so.

 

However, the problem for me is when a woman (or man) has decided that "this is all there is,so I'll stay and just be okay", and their partner is out cheating, having ALL of his/her needs met.

[goodyblue]

Goodyblue, not everyone can handle "helping" an alcoholic and taking spousal abuse so don't allow ppl to criticize your DH from getting out of an abusive M. And you were there for him. You were his rock when he needed someone to hold onto. You two found each other when you needed someone and it sounds like you two are happy. I think your guy did the honorable thing and left to be with someone he could live with and enjoy the rest of his life with. Hopefully his xw will get the help she needs to become healthy and whole. Staying for the kids is hogwash IMHO.

 

I appreciate this. Thanks. I believe their kids would have been better off with two homes and at least one fully functioning parent rather than one who was not and the one who was so busy cleaning up the other parents disasters.

 

I am not happy how we started out but I love where we ended up.

[WasOtherWoman]

So, if you are going to wait, there are some ground rules that I would suggest. I waited for my MM to leave his marriage, but I knew exactly the steps that he needed to take, his timeline for accomplishing them and the status thereof. Frankly, I approached it like a business deal, otherwise I don't think I would have been able to do it.

 

We agreed, before we began our affair, that he would leave his marriage, otherwise, I would not have engaged at all.

 

Waiting, with nothing concrete, is just not smart. Additionally, a clever OW does not allow her MM to be comfortable that she is just waiting. Mine was anxious to make sure he executed on his plan swiftly, lest I get swept away by another man. I did nothing to dissuade him from this thinking.

 

In my humble opinion, if you agree to wait, you need to know exactly for what and how long you are waiting. Otherwise, waiting makes no sense.

[Decisiontomake]

So, if you are going to wait, there are some ground rules that I would suggest. I waited for my MM to leave his marriage, but I knew exactly the steps that he needed to take, his timeline for accomplishing them and the status thereof. Frankly, I approached it like a business deal, otherwise I don't think I would have been able to do it.

 

We agreed, before we began our affair, that he would leave his marriage, otherwise, I would not have engaged at all.

 

Waiting, with nothing concrete, is just not smart. Additionally, a clever OW does not allow her MM to be comfortable that she is just waiting. Mine was anxious to make sure he executed on his plan swiftly, lest I get swept away by another man. I did nothing to dissuade him from this thinking.

 

In my humble opinion, if you agree to wait, you need to know exactly for what and how long you are waiting. Otherwise, waiting makes no sense.

 

 

Agreed - and I hope I've laid that out to him in this latest email! And if he doesn't follow through with the work to make the decision (regardless of what the decision is), then he's not the man I wish to be with anyway. And I shall just repeat that until it sticks if the time comes for that!

[dubliner]

It's a roll of the dice

Only your MM knows whether he will be the driver or passenger of his life.

IME I waited, years..supported him while he endured his toxic home life, supported him while he went through IC that confirmed what he already knew and helped him to make changes in his thinking regarding his relationships.

Yet still he remains glued to the spot, waiting for her to leave.

And we don't talk about 'us' anymore

[lollipopspot]

Why do you assume that the woman is powerless and clueless? I think most women in marriages lacking romantic love are fully aware of the situation and can leave should they choose to do so. I think some couples who are good friends and good parents both agree to stay together until some later point down the road for the good of their children. If they both agree that the well being of their children is a higher priority then finding that person to make their heart go pitter patter then that is their business.

 

I didn't say it's noble but sometimes parents don't need to have their every need immediately attended to at the expense of their children. Their are lots of single parents who are lacking in the romantic love department, their are lots of childless people who are lacking in the romantic love department. So what? There is no God given right that says everyone is entitled to live every day in hot passionate love with an amazing soul mate. Lots and lots of people live everyday without being madly in love and they are still happy. If two reasonable mature adults decide together that stability and security for their children are their immediate priority and they will seek their own romantic happiness later on, who can judge them for that? Who can say that they are wrong?

 

I really agree with this.

[Decisiontomake]

Why do you assume that the woman is powerless and clueless? I think most women in marriages lacking romantic love are fully aware of the situation and can leave should they choose to do so. I think some couples who are good friends and good parents both agree to stay together until some later point down the road for the good of their children. If they both agree that the well being of their children is a higher priority then finding that person to make their heart go pitter patter then that is their business.

 

 

I didn't say it's noble but sometimes parents don't need to have their every need immediately attended to at the expense of their children. Their are lots of single parents who are lacking in the romantic love department, their are lots of childless people who are lacking in the romantic love department. So what? There is no God given right that says everyone is entitled to live every day in hot passionate love with an amazing soul mate. Lots and lots of people live everyday without being madly in love and they are still happy. If two reasonable mature adults decide together that stability and security for their children are their immediate priority and they will seek their own romantic happiness later on, who can judge them for that? Who can say that they are wrong?

 

 

A thought provoking viewpoint. Thank you.

[amomwhoknows]

 

 

Distance/location: yes we live in different countries, but he visits mine every eight weeks or so for a couple of weeks at a time, and I too would be able to visit his inbetween his trips. So if we were in an open relationship I would see him for about 4 weeks out of every 8 BUT with unrestricted access/communication inbetween - big difference. I would be totally fine with that set up.

 

 

I am so so torn as to what my heart wants to do (cling on) and what my head tells me (let him figure it out and if it's meant to be etc), but as one poster here has kindly shared, I don't believe he'll leave without my support/enticement to do so. When I say enticement, I mean that I can see the future in all things, more than he can. He's a very "if I can't touch it/see it" kinda guy and I think that would keep him where he is.

 

 

.

 

 

I wonder what kind of custody he can get if he is gone 25percent of the time out of the country (and is there other travelling)? I suspect that he is right to be worried about what is relationship will be like with his son when he is no longer married to his mother.

 

 

Additionally, because you don't even live in the same country, I am not sure you really know what it would be like to be in an R with him. of course, this is the case with almost all affairs, but the distance in yours heightens the challenges.

 

 

I suspect part of what he is struggling with is the fact that you aren't physically present and he will be giving up a "sure thing" for someone he will see less than 50 percent of the time.

 

 

Why are you willing to settle for that?

[Decisiontomake]

I guess I've always been used to having so little of him physically and then such restrictions when he's not here, that having unrestricted access during his physical absence, with the opportunity to spend more time together inbetween seems enough for me at the moment. Also, having just come out of a 23 year relationship it's probably all I could handle right now.

 

I see your point tho in relation to the distance maybe holding him back too.

[sandylee1]

Seriously??? I'm sorry but I don't buy into that. The family is broken. Two adults are living a non existent life. Having just gone through a separation myself, I've listened to my teenage children tell me memories of their own young years when they knew things were not right. And my marriage was not all bad. Our family have some wonderful memories. We are not protecting our children when we stay in unhappy or unfulfilled marriages. We are teaching them.

 

I am saying that I love my AP and know he wants to have a relationship with me - an open one. I would put the needs of his child first throughout that. I don't believe people should stay together for the children. I'm sorry if that makes you angry with me. It has always been my perspective even prior to my A.

 

 

I agree one shouldn't stay in an unhappy marriage and the message it gives your children. The only thing is, we or you cannot decide that for another person's marriage. If he or other MM choose to stay, I'm not sure it's right to try and persuade them otherwise, because it could appear selfish.

 

Now an unhappy marriage is one thing, but some people are just okay in their marriages. Not great, but not awful. To get divorced, you really have to be VERY unhappy to the point you are wiling to sacrifice seeing your kids everyday and loosing half your assets. That doesn't seem to be the case with many MM.

[cocorico]

Thank you for sharing. I do feel like I'm waiting, yes, and I get all that you say about what that means and brings with it.

 

 

The change for me right now is that he admitted that he wants a normal relationship with me, but can't leave his son. Before it was just "I can't leave my son" and never once did he admit that he wanted a relationship with me so I always questioned if that was one of his reasons for not leaving too - that he didn't want to be with me enough to do so.

 

 

I think the absence, and then the strength felt when we got back in touch, made him realize that and it just opened up for me all the feelings/hopes I had worked so hard to box up during NC.

 

While it's great to know that he would ultimately want a "normal" relationship with you, it doesn't really change anything. He is still not saying he's willing to act on that, or that it changes his plans in any way. So, while its nice to know he does care more about you than you might have been led to believe - ultimately, nothing has changed but some warm fuzzies. He's still not planning to leave.

 

Your email to him gives him a very clear requirement - engage in IC and work out what he really wants - if he wants to continue the R with you. You've stated that if he does that, you'll give him the space he needs (while being as supportive as he'd want you to be) and if, having done that, he chooses to stay married, you'll walk.

 

But what about if he doesn't go to IC? What if he comes to you in 8 weeks, with a list of "reasons" / excuses as to why that was not possible? Are you prepared to entertain his rationalising, and give him an extension on his deadline, or is it a complete dealbreaker and he should know not to show up if he's not complied? And what if he partially complies - leaves it to the last minute, makes an appointment for when he gets back from seeing you... Or goes for a single session just before he sees you... Or goes for a session early on, decides he "can't relate" to the IC, and "struggles to find another"...? What exactly is your requirement, how much wiggle-room does he have, and does he know this?

[cocorico]

I guess I've always been used to having so little of him physically and then such restrictions when he's not here, that having unrestricted access during his physical absence, with the opportunity to spend more time together inbetween seems enough for me at the moment. Also, having just come out of a 23 year relationship it's probably all I could handle right now.

 

I see your point tho in relation to the distance maybe holding him back too.

 

Distance can be a big issue. When we decided we wanted to be together, we had to decide what form that would take, and how we could achieve that. In he end we decided we would live together most of the year in his country, and some of the year in mine. We are lucky that our work allows us to do that. If your work situations are less flexible, you need to negotiate a compromise which will allow you both to get enough time together (with or without requiring "top-up" relationships on the side), him to get enough time with his son, and you both to be able to have the professional and social/familial lives you need, in a place (or places) you're sufficiently comfortable living. That might not be possible in the short-to-medium term; certainly it won't be easy, given the constraints.

 

Have you mapped out an "ideal" scenario, where enough of your needs are met, and enough of his, and presented this to him as an option to explore?

[RoseVille]

I can't imagine being in this situation with the distance! Did it start with this distance??

[goodyblue]

I can't imagine being in this situation with the distance! Did it start with this distance??

 

We were long distance for a while, but were in the same country. It got so bad that, after he had left his wife and we had been in a LDR for a few months that he said 'I can't stand it. I am coming to visit on Halloween, pack up, you are coming back with me'.

 

It was a big change, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me and my kids. Jeez, I can't imagine how life would be if I hadn't just thrown caution to the wind.

 

BUT the thing was, I knew this was the end game. I knew this is where I was meant to be. There were no questions. That is what I worry about with the OP's situation. All the unanswered questions. That, and lack of a concrete plan. I believe that is what Coco and I have in common. We had a plan, it was concrete and in place.

[amomwhoknows]

Does he travel other places for work? Have you heard the expression -- a ship in every port?

[kieraglass]

Be careful with believing him if he agrees to see a counselor. A few months ago my MM agreed with me that he should seek counseling, because of his guilt and unresolved emotions about what happened with our baby, and to help him through the leaving process.

 

He told me that he chose a friend and associate of his boss, who is a philanthropist who knows many people through her community outreach. The woman he chose is someone he has known socially and workwise for years, who is friends with his boss....it didn't add up. At all. There was no way he was telling a friend of his, and his boss he was an adulterer, and that he'd conceived a child to boot. I mean, come on. I was pretty suspicious. He went to one "session," and made up details.

 

"So and so said it sounds like we have a remarkable bond, yadda yadda...."

 

I didn't buy it. And i laughed and told him so one night over a cocktail out. I was gentle, but I basically referred to his "fake therapist."

 

He barely responded. I never heard another story about his counselor again.

 

He was throwing me a bone. Keeping me at bay. Trying to make me think he was actually actively doing something for "us," when nothing could have been further front he truth.

 

I was so gentle about it then; it barely made a ripple in my psyche, I was so numb. But now, a few months later, it's part of my new rage.

 

They make up all kinds of details trying to keep us on the line, some of them. It's horrific.

 

If your MM says he has a counselor, honestly, gently try to ascertain proof. It could be just another smokescreen. I'm not sure how you can be sure he's being honest, but there must be a way. Your intuition might guide you like my own.

 

Mine is so full of crap his eyes are brown.

 

I hope yours has more integrity.

 

I wish you a happy ending to this. I do.

Edited May 27, 2015 by kieraglass

[Decisiontomake]

Hi everyone. Thank you again. He emailed me back saying that he had come to the conclusion while traveling home (long flight!) that he needed to see a therapist - before he'd read my mail suggesting the same. He said he would do so and I believe him. He said he thought he'd got to a place where he could just keep his head down but seeing me last week ignited all the desires he has for more with me. So I've said I'll wait. I've told him I'll support or not discuss - his choice. And for this next period I'm going to be free and open with him. I've told him I love him - first time ever! - and I will continue to be myself for this period of time. The crash will be hard if nothing comes of it but I don't have a choice right now - not through circumstance but in order to be myself I have to give this one last shot - with his promise of "work" from his end.

 

Some questions answered:

 

He only travels to my location otherwise I would of course think of the ship in every port bit.

 

If he doesn't go to IC as he's said he will I'm not sure what I'd do. I hope I will come on here and have you all give me the strength to walk!

 

I haven't given him the "what it would look like" bit in exact detail but did elude to it. I'm reticent to paint him a picture of it at this juncture because I feel I've intimated enough about it and I've just said I'll not keep discussing the subject (for both our sakes) at this time with him but will merely enjoy our relationship on the trust of what he's said he's going to work on.

 

I do hope through IC he will find his way. And yes I truly hope that way will be with me but if it is not then I will at least know I played a part in him coming to peace with his direction forward.

[Hope Shimmers]

Hi everyone. Thank you again. He emailed me back saying that he had come to the conclusion while traveling home (long flight!) that he needed to see a therapist - before he'd read my mail suggesting the same. He said he would do so and I believe him. He said he thought he'd got to a place where he could just keep his head down but seeing me last week ignited all the desires he has for more with me. So I've said I'll wait. I've told him I'll support or not discuss - his choice. And for this next period I'm going to be free and open with him. I've told him I love him - first time ever! - and I will continue to be myself for this period of time. The crash will be hard if nothing comes of it but I don't have a choice right now - not through circumstance but in order to be myself I have to give this one last shot - with his promise of "work" from his end.

 

Some questions answered:

 

He only travels to my location otherwise I would of course think of the ship in every port bit.

 

If he doesn't go to IC as he's said he will I'm not sure what I'd do. I hope I will come on here and have you all give me the strength to walk!

 

I haven't given him the "what it would look like" bit in exact detail but did elude to it. I'm reticent to paint him a picture of it at this juncture because I feel I've intimated enough about it and I've just said I'll not keep discussing the subject (for both our sakes) at this time with him but will merely enjoy our relationship on the trust of what he's said he's going to work on.

 

I do hope through IC he will find his way. And yes I truly hope that way will be with me but if it is not then I will at least know I played a part in him coming to peace with his direction forward.

 

Okay.

 

I think you need to do more than just tell him you will wait. I think you need to think VERY seriously about a timeline that works for you - like, how much time can you honestly live with, if he doesn't come through. There is a very good chance he won't, so think about what YOU are willing to put up with. And/or if you are willing to go long-term this way because you don't want a full time relationship, etc.

 

Obviously I'm leaving the morality issues of an A and his wife out of it, but I'm doing that on purpose. That isn't the topic of this thread. You have made your decision - you will have to live with the end result of it should it not go as you hope. So think about how long you are honestly willing to wait, or if you are okay with not having him full time, then be fully self-aware of that in terms of how you proceed going forward.

[adna89]

I am pretty much sure(90%) he will never leave the wife.See,you are far away...maybe he would even consider it if you were there close most of the times for him...but now? nah

 

we women tend to bond more than men,to him,,,you are not in his mind that much,he has his life and is active in it,you are in no way part of it...he might even love you,but men are practical. why would he change everything in his life for a person he barerly sees? a woman would leave yeah,but a guy(most of the times) will think with his head.its really how men work.

 

see he just wrote to you,that's all,he has forgotten it,it was on his mind while writing it ,its not in his mind that much anymore.but to you its huge,you even post here about it

Edited May 28, 2015 by adna89

[Summer Breeze]

I walked away from DMM after a few years in an A. He never future faked and we had a great R. The day came when I wanted more than he was willing to give me and I walked away. 3 years later he left his house, went into counselling, started D proceedings. I think it's been a little more than 3 years now that he was in the middle of all this going on and contacted me.

 

I never gave him my power. OP if I were you I wouldn't have been so kind. I would have walked away and left him to it. I hope he's serious about doing what he said he will do and doesn't end up playing you. One false move from him and put your foot down. Let him know you're not willing to have less than you deserve.

 

BTW we're still together and very happy. Families blended and even his xW and her new H are regulars at our place. It's a lot of work and sometimes you do have to walk away and hope for the best. Good luck

[Decisiontomake]

Hi guys. I don't disagree with any of you that the likelihood is I'm going to get my heart damaged again when he stays. However, hope runs eternal and having him admit that he at least wants to work on his feelings rather than just go in circles with them, is not the time that I can walk away. Whether I should or not is of course up for debate. I appreciate all the personal stories shared and the advice on what I should do t handle this - truly. I also hope you'll be here if the crash and burn comes and I need some support. Thank you all x

[velvette]

Hi everyone. Thank you again. He emailed me back saying that he had come to the conclusion while traveling home (long flight!) that he needed to see a therapist - before he'd read my mail suggesting the same. He said he would do so and I believe him. He said he thought he'd got to a place where he could just keep his head down but seeing me last week ignited all the desires he has for more with me. So I've said I'll wait. I've told him I'll support or not discuss - his choice. And for this next period I'm going to be free and open with him. I've told him I love him - first time ever! - and I will continue to be myself for this period of time. The crash will be hard if nothing comes of it but I don't have a choice right now - not through circumstance but in order to be myself I have to give this one last shot - with his promise of "work" from his end.

 

Some questions answered:

 

He only travels to my location otherwise I would of course think of the ship in every port bit.

 

If he doesn't go to IC as he's said he will I'm not sure what I'd do. I hope I will come on here and have you all give me the strength to walk!

 

I haven't given him the "what it would look like" bit in exact detail but did elude to it. I'm reticent to paint him a picture of it at this juncture because I feel I've intimated enough about it and I've just said I'll not keep discussing the subject (for both our sakes) at this time with him but will merely enjoy our relationship on the trust of what he's said he's going to work on.

 

I do hope through IC he will find his way. And yes I truly hope that way will be with me but if it is not then I will at least know I played a part in him coming to peace with his direction forward.

 

 

Call me cynical, but that lightbulb moment of his timed immediately before reading the email you sent him would be way too coincidental for me.

 

 

Do you plan to ask him for proof that he is indeed seeing a therapist? I would if I were you.

[goldengirl11]

Reading this makes me feel sad and wish I hadn't waited for my MM. After the best part of 3 years waiting, if on and off at times, he moved out a few months ago and still has me on a string and would appear he still doesn't know what he wants!

[Decisiontomake]

Hi all. The interesting thing I've found this last week or so is that 1. I feel more like the OW than ever - not sure why as strangely have never really felt like that. And 2. It's made me realize that I just don't want that. That's making me feel stronger in being able to walk away from this if nothing happens in the next few weeks (the time I gave him to seek counseling etc). So I'm taking this as a good turn in my ability to recognize what I want, not just what he wants. It's a contradictory journey for sure, but thought I'd share where I'm at right now.