Feel like I may have said something wrong

[BluEyeL]

Ugh... you know how difficult it is to live long term with someone "sensitive"? It would wear you down!

 

And he's indian, yeah, they always have mommy and daddy hovering, even from India.

[losangelena]

Ugh... you know how difficult it is to live long term with someone "sensitive"? It would wear you down!

 

And he's indian, yeah, they always have mommy and daddy hovering, even from India.

 

I dated a sensitive guy once and thankfully he had the good sense to end it two months in—he just couldn't handle it, and he got no complaint from me.

 

I have never even seen a photo of his mom, but I can feel her presence, very often.

[Gaeta]

They're a very traditional Hindu family. It would be a big deal that I'm American and a HUGE deal that I'm white. His older brother, who married an Indian woman, did not tell their mother until they'd been dating for two years and were at the point of engagement, because he knew (for various reasons) that she would disapprove.

 

His parents are constantly trying to arrange a marriage for him and asking him if he wants them to send pictures of potential matches, and he keeps saying no. He won't tell them why though (me), and it's causing them great distress.

 

Ouch !! so when his brother got engaged their mother got over it? Sometimes parents huff and puff but once their back is to the wall they have no choice but to get with the program especially if they want a relationship with their grand children.

 

On the other end, if being with you means his parents will disown him are do you really want to impose this on him.

[losangelena]

Ouch !! so when his brother got engaged their mother got over it? Sometimes parents huff and puff but once their back is to the wall they have no choice but to get with the program especially if they want a relationship with their grand children.

 

On the other end, if being with you means his parents will disown him are do you really want to impose this on him.

 

Yeah, I think once she realized that they were really in love and really wanted to get married, she recanted. My BF's brother/SIL actually live with his parents (very common practice), who help take care of their granddaughter. They're fine now about her.

 

I don't know if BF's parents would react AS badly as he's afraid they will, but I'd be willing to bet that at least some of his hesitation stems from what he thinks might happen if he and I move forward. Any doubt he has about me, any issue, is probably x10 magnified. I'm sure some people would say, "if he really loved you, he'd say 'damn his parents,'" but I don't think it's that simple. It's a really big decision to make.

[Gaeta]

I'm sure some people would say, "if he really loved you, he'd say 'damn his parents,'" but I don't think it's that simple. It's a really big decision to make.

 

You're right it's not that simple and even more complicated when you're from a culture that the parents have the power of life or death over you (figure of speech).

 

You also have to consider that if the parents make peace with you being white you will then enter a very VERY different culture where his parents will butt in your personal business on daily basis! They will rule under your own roof and you'll have very little to say. It will be you against them because if sh&t hits the fan he will side with his parents.

[jen1447]

I think what happened is that I offended his manhood by taking things into my own hands (yes, pun intended). Since it seems like he interpreted it as, "she doesn't need me for sex," that perhaps he's a bit turned off at the moment. That could account for the lack of physical contact, and also that he didn't want to tell me—that after a few days he hopes his desire would come back. Of course, it might not, we'll see.

In that case I think the 'forced' blowjob could work! If he was using some psychological ploy to try to guilt trip you he'd resist in order to make you feel bad, but if it's just a 'poor me'/confidence thing, you can address that sexually.

[losangelena]

You're right it's not that simple and even more complicated when you're from a culture that the parents have the power of life or death over you (figure of speech).

 

You also have to consider that if the parents make peace with you being white you will then enter a very VERY different culture where his parents will butt in your personal business on daily basis! They will rule under your own roof and you'll have very little to say. It will be you against them because if sh&t hits the fan he will side with his parents.

 

Yes, this is something I've considered. He's done fairly well at fighting against it. He's here in the States partly to get out from under his family's thumb (which I find very admirable, actually), and is in the process of applying for permanent resident status—that is, he has no desire to go back. Regardless, I think his family is a big factor in our future, and not one he's ready to make any decisions about.

[losangelena]

In that case I think the 'forced' blowjob could work! If he was using some psychological ploy to try to guilt trip you he'd resist in order to make you feel bad, but if it's just a 'poor me'/confidence thing, you can address that sexually.

 

I doubt very much it's some "psychological ploy." I mean, he wasn't trying to guilt trip me, he said as such. I think he felt an immense amount of shame and inadequacy in that moment, and his instinct was to pull away and deal with it internally. His quietness, or treating me poorly wasn't/isn't a punishment—he told me the other night that he neither wants to make me feel alone, nor stress me out—it's some internal conflict.

 

Yes, in a perfect world he should be able to freely articulate that, but for someone so lacking in communication, who's bumped up against such feelings of shame, I think dealing with it directly was about the last thing he wanted to do. That he finally told me what the problem is was kind of a big deal.

 

I know it probably sounds like I'm making excuses for him, and I won't defend that. My thoughts and feelings about all this have been changing as the days go by, as is reflected in my posts, I'm sure. I'm not making any decisions just yet.

 

I've been reading a lot about uncommunicative partners and am surprised to see how common a problem it is. This introduction of this book: How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It: Patricia Love, Steven Stosny: 9780767923187: Amazon.com: Books has been particularly helpful.

 

Caveat: yes, I know we're not married, but this book gives a lot of insight in the difference between the communication styles of men and women. It seems as if women are the ones who most often complain about a lack of communication, and that a lot of supposed remedies involve a lot of talk. But if I'm having trouble communicating with my man, I feel like it behooves me to figure out how he will best actually do that. Prying it out of him like teeth isn't doing either of us any good. I know many of you have said to just break up with him, and I agree that that's a very viable option at this point, but there's also a part of me that believes there's maybe a different option.

Edited June 19, 2015 by losangelena

[Acacia98]

I know many of you have said to just break up with him, and I agree that that's a very viable option at this point, but there's also a part of me that believes there's maybe a different option.

 

Wish you all the best figuring stuff out losangelena. Your situation sounds complicated. When you mentioned he was a Hindu from India, a light bulb went on in my head. Cultural/ethnic/national differences definitely contribute to communication issues and to an individual's understanding of what's acceptable in a relationship. And there's also the practical differences that come with following a different religion. As I understand it (from a male Hindu friend who was dating a white American woman), religious practice can be very much intertwined with aspects of everyday life and family roles.

 

This is not to say that it can't work for y'all. Maybe it can. But there would have to be a revolutionary change in the way he communicates with you. If you guys ultimately decide to stay together, it may be worth your while to consider couples' counseling of some sort.

[Gaeta]

 

Caveat: yes, I know we're not married, but this book gives a lot of insight in the difference between the communication styles of men and women. It seems as if women are the ones who most often complain about a lack of communication, and that a lot of supposed remedies involve a lot of talk. But if I'm having trouble communicating with my man, I feel like it behooves me to figure out how he will best actually do that. Prying it out of him like teeth isn't doing either of us any good. I know many of you have said to just break up with him, and I agree that that's a very viable option at this point, but there's also a part of me that believes there's maybe a different option.

 

I think your problem goes beyond simple different communication style. If you were dating an American I'd say try some of those theory but honestly I don't think any of those communication tools would be effective on someone that has been raised in an other country, other culture, other religion and moved here as an adult. The way your boyfriend sees himself as a man, and how he sees his role as a male in a relationship is too ingrained in him for any of those techniques to apply.

[losangelena]

I think your problem goes beyond simple different communication style. If you were dating an American I'd say try some of those theory but honestly I don't think any of those communication tools would be effective on someone that has been raised in an other country, other culture, other religion and moved here as an adult. The way your boyfriend sees himself as a man, and how he sees his role as a male in a relationship is too ingrained in him for any of those techniques to apply.

 

Possibly. You could be very right. Though, he's VERY westernized in many aspects of his life. If he was not willing to at least try the American way of dating, he would not have been on OKC, looking for a relationship that way, he'd have accepted one his parents' many offers by now, or looked for a woman who could better understand him culturally. He wants to have children, he wants to have a family, and he could have very easily had that by now if he'd gone the way his family wanted. The choices he's made already have suggested that he's looking for something different. That doesn't make us suddenly compatible, I realize, and while I know that cultural difference are an issue, he's also a very typical human male.

 

I've decided to give this a full year. If things don't improve by September, then I'll go—and y'all can hold me to that!

 

And I should add—HE is not a practicing Hindu. His family, especially his mother, is very staunch, but he gave that up years ago.

Edited June 19, 2015 by losangelena

[BlackOpsZombieGirl]

I think your problem goes beyond simple different communication style. If you were dating an American I'd say try some of those theory but honestly I don't think any of those communication tools would be effective on someone that has been raised in an other country, other culture, other religion and moved here as an adult. The way your boyfriend sees himself as a man, and how he sees his role as a male in a relationship is too ingrained in him for any of those techniques to apply.

 

Omg Gaeta, I was literally going to say this same exact thing but you beat me to it lol. When I found out in her most recent post that he was of Indian descent and that he is from a strict Hindu family, that was when the above thought immediately entered my mind. His thought processes regarding himself as a man and the environment and culture that he grew up in is wayyy different from a guy's experiences and way of thinking who grew up in the states.

 

Personally, I think her attitude towards life, relationships and dating is more progressive and more mature than her bf's (that's not a diss against him, Losangelena). I think she would be better suited dating guys who are from the US or from the UK than dating guys who are from other countries whose cultures and religions differ drastically from hers - unless guys like her bf were born and raised here in the US and grew up in our culture.

 

 

 

.

[whirl3daway]

I'm Indian, although born and raised in the US. I've experienced several Hindu-raised men, so allow me to give you my thoughts from this perspective. I will start this off by saying I would never date an Indian man myself, as most of them that I have seen and experienced are not good partners.

 

1) He is probably VERY uncomfortable with sexuality. Although we wrote the Kama Sutra and have temples with fornicating bodies all over them, India is extremely uncomfortable with the idea of female sexuality. It is probably not a lie that he is weirded out by you touching yourself. We are not taught a single thing about sexuality, and it is regarded as taboo to even discuss. Most Indian families are not affectionate and so he may have trouble even wanting to share that with you because it runs against the nature of how he was probably raised.

 

2) He will probably be forced to marry another Indian girl, through arranged marriage. Only you can know whether or not this is likely to happen but the very fact that he is hesitant to tell his family about you tells me that this is probably going to be the case. 90% of the men who come from India are given arranged marriages to women in India. It is still very common.

 

3) Indian men are raised to think that they are little princes, and that women are meant to be subservient to them. I guarantee that his relationship role models are like this and I also guarantee that he has never been taught how to be a good partner or anything about relationships. Indians, in general, actually encourage their children to stay single and get upset if they want to date. There is no discussion about relationships or how to communicate or anything like that unless his parents are quite progressive [living in the US, etc].

 

4) If he lives in the US and came from India, his whole life has been centered around academics. His family was probably extremely involved in his educational life [tutoring, classes, university, etc]. He probably has zero idea how to communicate, relate or even be in a relationship. He also may have some weird sexual fetishes as it's common for Indian men to have these [repressed sexual environments tend to do this].

 

5) KIDS! I dunno if you want kids, but your in-laws are going to be a huge PITA in regards to them if you have them together.

 

6) I know all of these things come off as very negative and very generalized but trust me when I say it comes from observing many, many Indian men. You couldn't pay me money to date a man that has emigrated from India. He is just not likely to make a good long term partner.

[losangelena]

1) He is probably VERY uncomfortable with sexuality. Although we wrote the Kama Sutra and have temples with fornicating bodies all over them, India is extremely uncomfortable with the idea of female sexuality. It is probably not a lie that he is weirded out by you touching yourself. We are not taught a single thing about sexuality, and it is regarded as taboo to even discuss. Most Indian families are not affectionate and so he may have trouble even wanting to share that with you because it runs against the nature of how he was probably raised.

 

This is very insightful. I know he was pretty inexperienced before he met me, relationship-wise, anyway. I figured that he, being 31, had probably had sex before, and despite not being terribly adventurous, he still doesn't need any coaching in this area. It would explain his overreaction, though

 

He is actually quite affectionate—in fact, that's practically the ONE WAY I know he's on-board sometimes.

 

2) He will probably be forced to marry another Indian girl, through arranged marriage. Only you can know whether or not this is likely to happen but the very fact that he is hesitant to tell his family about you tells me that this is probably going to be the case. 90% of the men who come from India are given arranged marriages to women in India. It is still very common.

 

His brother's was a love marriage, so his parents are at least open enough for that, but his mother, who's quite domineering, was unhappy about it at first. His parents do keep asking if he wants to be sent photos of potential wives, but he keeps saying no, so there is that. It could just be a matter of time though, I realize. They do consider it acceptable if he'd marry an Indian woman who was born here, though.

 

Again, I don't know, but my guess is that he wouldn't bother opening that can of worms by telling them unless/until we decided to get married. I mean, why cause unnecessary strife?

 

3) Indian men are raised to think that they are little princes, and that women are meant to be subservient to them. I guarantee that his relationship role models are like this and I also guarantee that he has never been taught how to be a good partner or anything about relationships. Indians, in general, actually encourage their children to stay single and get upset if they want to date. There is no discussion about relationships or how to communicate or anything like that unless his parents are quite progressive [living in the US, etc].

 

I CAN TOTALLY SEE THIS, OMG.

 

He doesn't expect me to be subservient, necessarily, but general relationship cluelessness and lack of communication is definitely a big problem. He doesn't act like an entitled "prince" though, so that's good.

 

4) If he lives in the US and came from India, his whole life has been centered around academics. His family was probably extremely involved in his educational life [tutoring, classes, university, etc]. He probably has zero idea how to communicate, relate or even be in a relationship. He also may have some weird sexual fetishes as it's common for Indian men to have these [repressed sexual environments tend to do this].

 

The fetishes I'm not sure about; I haven't seen anything. He is well-educated, and a bit socially awkward, but he is a warm, friendly, gentle, likable person with a witty sense of humor who does have a few close friends. The sense I get from him is that his family regards him as a bit of a black sheep, living in America and just generally doing his own thing.

 

5) KIDS! I dunno if you want kids, but your in-laws are going to be a huge PITA in regards to them if you have them together.

 

This I don't doubt.

 

6) I know all of these things come off as very negative and very generalized but trust me when I say it comes from observing many, many Indian men. You couldn't pay me money to date a man that has emigrated from India. He is just not likely to make a good long term partner.

 

As I said before, this is very insightful, thank you! All things to take into consideration.

 

While I was dating, I actually went out with several Indian guys, either from there or from here, and at first I was a bit wary because of a lot of what you wrote above, as well as the stereotypes of Indian men. My BF surprised me in a way because he has so embraced American culture. He told one of my friends one time, when we went out for drinks, that he feels like a lot of Indians who come to America just try and recreate their lives here—socializing with mostly Indians; eating mostly Indian food, etc.—but that for him it's important that since he's in America, to have an American experience. When he said that, I did wonder, "am I just a part of your American experience?," but it seems like he's wanting to make his situation here more permanent, from a legal standpoint anyway.

 

I totally appreciate your feedback! I'm sure some of these generalities do apply to my BF, for sure, and is food for thought.

Edited June 19, 2015 by losangelena

[lana-banana]

I'd understand going to such great lengths to accommodate him if you two were deeply in love. But it's just you doing everything you can to improve your relationship, and for what? Why are you so hellbent on making it work when he isn't even trying and you're not madly in love with him?

 

I know the cultural factors are significant, but I'd write them off if this guy was devoted to you and willing to make it work despite his inexperience. You seem to be the only one trying to make it work at all. He says he's still not sure if he sees a future with you. Why not have a serious, mature discussion about where you stand first and then decide whether it's worth the effort?

[katiegrl]

Possibly. You could be very right. Though, he's VERY westernized in many aspects of his life. If he was not willing to at least try the American way of dating, he would not have been on OKC, looking for a relationship that way, he'd have accepted one his parents' many offers by now, or looked for a woman who could better understand him culturally. He wants to have children, he wants to have a family, and he could have very easily had that by now if he'd gone the way his family wanted. The choices he's made already have suggested that he's looking for something different. That doesn't make us suddenly compatible, I realize, and while I know that cultural difference are an issue, he's also a very typical human male.

 

I've decided to give this a full year. If things don't improve by September, then I'll go—and y'all can hold me to that!

 

And I should add—HE is not a practicing Hindu. His family, especially his mother, is very staunch, but he gave that up years ago.

 

LA your boyfrend is Hindu? There is another thread currently running right now created by a Hindu guy (who no longer practices Hindu) who feels sexual intimacy with his girlfriend is dirty and wrong due to family influences.

 

It eerily sounds like it could possibly have been written by your boyfriend!

 

I know the chances of that are extremely slim, but check it out....it may shed some light on how your boyfriend is feeling, and what he is experiencing emotionally.

 

Thread title is "I'm afraid to be intimate with my partner," created by a poster named corsair.....

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Didn't you say you are your bf's first girlfriend and be is 31? Was 31 when he met you?

[losangelena]

Didn't you say you are your bf's first girlfriend and be is 31? Was 31 when he met you?

 

He was 30 when we met.

[losangelena]

Just an update since it's been a while.

 

BF and I are still together, now at 11 months and things are going well.

 

I don't know what exactly happened, but things between us now a much better. We communicate more, and are both freer with each other than we were before.

 

To update, I chose not to approach him with some big relationship talk after what happened with the "fingering incident." I instead chose to focus on creating a sense of closeness and connection between us, and it's worked pretty well.

 

He finally got what was bothering him off his chest (I did not prod, he volunteered the info), and it had nothing to do with me, really. When he said he wasn't sure about the future, he was talking about his immigration status. I think he'd been quite bothered to have to tell me that there's a possibility (with work visa/green card stuff) that he may have to return to India indefinitely. He should know more sometime in August.

 

When he was telling me all this stuff, it was like a dimmer switch went up in my brain and it dawned on me that if he has to go back, that would probably be it for us (we didn't expressly talk about this, but I mean, what other option is there, really?). If we were super serious and dating for a couple of years, then maybe it'd be a different story, but as it is, he might not be able to come back to the US at all, or not for quite some time.

 

I was sad when he told me—also surprised at myself that I never considered his immigration status as a possible issue—and I cried, but I also felt like a burden had been taken off my shoulders, like I no longer had to weigh everything he said or did against some "long term relationship criteria," or wonder, "can I live with this behavior for potentially ever?" I felt like I could just enjoy him for him. Amazing how freeing that is. I can honestly say that I feel more deeply for him now than I did before. We've shared "I love yous" and we are having sex with the same frequency as when we first started having it. Maybe that's the attitude I should have had all along, but no matter, it's finally here.

 

Of course, if his green card is approved, then we'll have to discuss actual longterm options.

 

Also, my birthday was this past weekend, and boy did he deliver, which again just makes me think that Christmas/Valentine's are simply holidays he's had no experience celebrating. Not only did he give me a VERY NICE watch, he was all ready to take me to Wally's like I'd asked for. However, I was the one who suggested going somewhere closer and less expensive for birthday dinner, which I'm sure he appreciated, haha.

 

Anyway, that's my little update.

[No_Go]

Great to hear that communication is much better and things are coming along! This is to confirm once again men do not like to be held for explanation talks, and open up when they feel closer not pressured:)

 

Regarding the Green card - LA, I feel for your bf...To share experience: I've got my Green card (EB2-NIW) approved last month. I had to wait double the expected time, since according to my lawyer, the USCIS is understaffed now... It has been a torture, I can tell you, and I tried to hide almost to the end my suffer from my bf since we're early on and I was afraid he'll get scared.

 

I'm sure your bf had been through a similar thought process... I know for Indians is even tougher to get through the Green card process, but if it is skill-based, I'm sure he'll get it sooner than later (still keep in mind immigration services are SLOW; I waited ~6 months after the anticipated date). Best of luck!

 

Just an update since it's been a while.

 

BF and I are still together, now at 11 months and things are going well.

 

I don't know what exactly happened, but things between us now a much better. We communicate more, and are both freer with each other than we were before.

 

To update, I chose not to approach him with some big relationship talk after what happened with the "fingering incident." I instead chose to focus on creating a sense of closeness and connection between us, and it's worked pretty well.

 

He finally got what was bothering him off his chest (I did not prod, he volunteered the info), and it had nothing to do with me, really. When he said he wasn't sure about the future, he was talking about his immigration status. I think he'd been quite bothered to have to tell me that there's a possibility (with work visa/green card stuff) that he may have to return to India indefinitely. He should know more sometime in August.

 

When he was telling me all this stuff, it was like a dimmer switch went up in my brain and it dawned on me that if he has to go back, that would probably be it for us (we didn't expressly talk about this, but I mean, what other option is there, really?). If we were super serious and dating for a couple of years, then maybe it'd be a different story, but as it is, he might not be able to come back to the US at all, or not for quite some time.

 

I was sad when he told me—also surprised at myself that I never considered his immigration status as a possible issue—and I cried, but I also felt like a burden had been taken off my shoulders, like I no longer had to weigh everything he said or did against some "long term relationship criteria," or wonder, "can I live with this behavior for potentially ever?" I felt like I could just enjoy him for him. Amazing how freeing that is. I can honestly say that I feel more deeply for him now than I did before. We've shared "I love yous" and we are having sex with the same frequency as when we first started having it. Maybe that's the attitude I should have had all along, but no matter, it's finally here.

 

Of course, if his green card is approved, then we'll have to discuss actual longterm options.

 

Also, my birthday was this past weekend, and boy did he deliver, which again just makes me think that Christmas/Valentine's are simply holidays he's had no experience celebrating. Not only did he give me a VERY NICE watch, he was all ready to take me to Wally's like I'd asked for. However, I was the one who suggested going somewhere closer and less expensive for birthday dinner, which I'm sure he appreciated, haha.

 

Anyway, that's my little update.

[losangelena]

I'm sure your bf had been through a similar thought process... I know for Indians is even tougher to get through the Green card process, but if it is skill-based, I'm sure he'll get it sooner than later (still keep in mind immigration services are SLOW; I waited ~6 months after the anticipated date). Best of luck!

 

Yes, it is skills-based, and the company he works for is applying for him. A friend from Brazil seems to think he'll have no problem, but ... ya never know. He seems very nervous about the whole thing because I think he very much likes his life here and does not want to go back to India with no real plan to come back here. At first I was like, "oh you'll stay in India for a couple of weeks or months?" and he was like, "no I'd have to get another job here, and then the work visa situation is all lottery-based, so it'll be a crapshoot to get back in." He's at the end of work visa extensions.

 

That was a difficult thing for him to admit, and I think he was relieved when I didn't get mad. He's been much more open about sharing struggles recently.

 

Where are you from, if you don't mind me asking?

[xcupid]

Well, it could have seemed like I was suggesting it was a possibility by asking. I mean, why bring it up at all, right? Why ask him? So I didn't outright accuse him, but it could have seemed like I was in an indirect way.

 

Tangential to my last post, I was thinking that apologizing might be a better way into a deeper conversation about the relationship than accusing him of something. Saying, "hey, I hope this didn't offend you," is probably an easier thing to hear than a suggestion that you're cheating.

 

I know a lot of you will say that if I want to have a deeper conversation, that I should just start one, but it's not that easy. The last time I tried, the BF thought I was attacking him and kind of shut down. I'm afraid of that happening again. Hence wanting to find maybe another way in.

 

 

I wouldn't apologize and then lead into a "deeper conversation." That won't get him to open up. There was an implied accusation that you're making the apology for.

[losangelena]

I wouldn't apologize and then lead into a "deeper conversation." That won't get him to open up. There was an implied accusation that you're making the apology for.

 

Thanks for the advice! We're well past that though, I am happy to report.

[BluEyeL]

For India green card applications take years. Good luck! I know how he feels, I've been there . It took almost 2 years for me and I'm not indian or Chinese, for them the wait is long long long. If you get married it'll be much faster than the skill based process.

[No_Go]

I'm from Eastern Europe.

In my case I self-petitioned; his company sponsors him so that may make it faster. Hope all will work well, but keep in mind, if something gets wrong, there are always alternative options (eg he may qualify for EB1 self-petition if he has special skills, I can think of more but for now - it is a matter of patience, he'll hopefully get it next month:))

 

Yes, it is skills-based, and the company he works for is applying for him. A friend from Brazil seems to think he'll have no problem, but ... ya never know. He seems very nervous about the whole thing because I think he very much likes his life here and does not want to go back to India with no real plan to come back here. At first I was like, "oh you'll stay in India for a couple of weeks or months?" and he was like, "no I'd have to get another job here, and then the work visa situation is all lottery-based, so it'll be a crapshoot to get back in." He's at the end of work visa extensions.

 

That was a difficult thing for him to admit, and I think he was relieved when I didn't get mad. He's been much more open about sharing struggles recently.

 

Where are you from, if you don't mind me asking?