"Fat" revolution?

[todreaminblue]

if anything is starting a fat revolution its tv shows that glorify overeating.... i watch them.............like man vs food...the size of the meals that you get commended on eating including put up on walls of honor are staggeringly massive...you win t shirts......guitars......money to over eat......and i guess its fine if you have a fast metabolism......but if you dont.....its like kilos a meal you would probably put on...sometimes watching this program as i see him sweating and retching trying to get another forkful in his mouth ...i actually have to stop watching......it makes me feel sick as he feels sick...i think these programs may promote unhealthy lifestyles far more than a large plus size lady on the cover of a magazine......deb

[introverted1]

Ninja, just wait until you read articles about "thin privilege" as if we were uncontrollable, like skin color...

 

And yes, there is definitely an epidemic of overweight people (not just women) along with an insistence that no one should speak negatively of the trend of ever-increasing BMI. At the same time, we are being asked to fund each other's health care, so yes, this is very much everyone's issue and problem.

 

ETA: There is also a concurrent movement to insult people of normal weight, especially women, by referring to them as "skinny," "skeletal," "without curves," and so on. As mentioned by another poster, it's happened several times in this thread alone and no one has spoken up.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I wonder if there would ever be a thread about the anorexic self destructive junkie Kate Moss and what a travesty it is to have her not only on one magazine cover one time but probably 1000 of them over years!!! What a health threat to the nation and all that!!

[writergal]

I wonder if there would ever be a thread about the anorexic self destructive junkie Kate Moss and what a travesty it is to have her not only on one magazine cover one time but probably 1000 of them over years!!! What a health threat to the nation and all that!!

 

I know, right? The Kate Moss Revolution: Moss promotes intravenous drug use and anorexia to women everywhere! Quick! Someone pull her magazine covers and cancel her modeling jobs. She's responsible for all the girls and women who use drugs and starve themselves. Pft.

[123321]

I wonder if there would ever be a thread about the anorexic self destructive junkie Kate Moss and what a travesty it is to have her not only on one magazine cover one time but probably 1000 of them over years!!! What a health threat to the nation and all that!!

 

I would expect there to be considerable public outcry if we ever saw an article about Kate Moss and her drug addiction, and how the author was also a heroin addict, and how being a heroin addict is OK, and it's just the way she is.

 

That article would point out that after all, Kate has a regular physician and is dating (someone successful) and that she couldn't have achieved that without the help of her little injectable friend! It was really for the best! Opiates were the best thing to happen to Kate Moss, and others like her.

 

 

I'm not anti fat models, nor am I anti heroin addicted models. I *AM* anti "let's promote deadly habits and lifestyles".

[introverted1]

I wonder if there would ever be a thread about the anorexic self destructive junkie Kate Moss and what a travesty it is to have her not only on one magazine cover one time but probably 1000 of them over years!!! What a health threat to the nation and all that!!

 

This really misses the point.

 

We are not facing an increase in drug use and a resultant health crisis.

 

We are facing rapidly rising trends in type 2 diabetes and heart disease, both of which are directly attributable to steady increases in average weight in both genders. The economic costs are staggering.

 

It's ironic that most people have no problem seeing smoking for the unhealthy habit it is, but many resist acknowledging that over-eating is just as unhealthy. Instead, we frame the discussion of weight around appearance, which does a disservice to all, imo.

[writergal]

This really misses the point.

 

We are not facing an increase in drug use and a resultant health crisis.

 

We are facing rapidly rising trends in type 2 diabetes and heart disease, both of which are directly attributable to steady increases in average weight in both genders. The economic costs are staggering.

 

It's ironic that most people have no problem seeing smoking for the unhealthy habit it is, but many resist acknowledging that over-eating is just as unhealthy. Instead, we frame the discussion of weight around appearance, which does a disservice to all, imo.

 

No, it hits the point spot on. It's an absolute farce to blame one overweight model (Tess Holliday) for the # of obese people in the U.S. and the world. That's just absolutely ridiculous.

 

And by the way, the drug problem in the U.S. IS increasing: heroin and marijuana. Look at the way tv shows like "Breaking Bad" normalizes Meth use.

 

There is no "health crisis" but a healthCARE crisis. People can't get healthcare. The obesity issue has been around for a lot longer than Tess Holliday's modeling career, so stop scapegoating her as so many people are doing in this thread.

 

Oprah Winfrey is OBESE yet I don't see anyone scapegoating her as the spokeswoman for Obese women who promotes the obese lifestyle. And Oprah is on the cover of her own magazine every month! So, clearly that means by the argument made here, that putting a fat woman on a magazine cover means she is the Joan Of Starch for all obese women everywhere who take up arms full of donuts and cookies and cakes, to promote the obese lifestyle.

 

Puh-lease.

[sweetjasmine]

On top of that ... come back and make a point when the USA has a widespread problem with most of the population being too thin. Until it starts to tip that direction, it's really not a huge public health menace.

 

The rates of eating disorders have steadily gone up for the past several decades, and, YES, that is a public health issue. A 15 year old with severe anorexia is more likely to die within the next few years than a 15 year old who's obese, who will take much longer to develop long-term problems. So eating disorders are actually a more acute, urgent problem. Since you're so concerned with population health, you might want to learn more about it.

 

And, really, the rise of eating disorders is the other side of the same body obsession coin.

[123321]

The rates of eating disorders have steadily gone up for the past several decades, and, YES, that is a public health issue.

 

So post a thread quoting or citing an article that glamorizes anorexia as a great life choice and something we should all accept as the new normal, and see what happens.

[introverted1]

No, it hits the point spot on. It's an absolute farce to blame one overweight model (Tess Holliday) for the # of obese people in the U.S. and the world. That's just absolutely ridiculous.

 

She's a symptom, not the sole cause. I don't think anyone here ever said she alone was the problem. The problem is the normalization of overweight. Magazine covers may contribute but they are not solely responsible.

 

And by the way, the drug problem in the U.S. IS increasing: heroin and marijuana. Look at the way tv shows like "Breaking Bad" normalizes Meth use.

 

If this is true, then it is also a problem. One doesn't cancel the other out. So we can add drug use to the unhealthy habits of smoking and over-eating.

 

There is no "health crisis" but a healthCARE crisis. People can't get healthcare. The obesity issue has been around for a lot longer than Tess Holliday's modeling career, so stop scapegoating her as so many people are doing in this thread.

 

Nope.

 

According to the CDC, health care access has steadily increased in the time period from 1998 to present, the same time period in which obesity and the health issues related to it have sky-rocketed.

 

Oprah Winfrey is OBESE yet I don't see anyone scapegoating her as the spokeswoman for Obese women who promotes the obese lifestyle. And Oprah is on the cover of her own magazine every month! So, clearly that means by the argument made here, that putting a fat woman on a magazine cover means she is the Joan Of Starch for all obese women everywhere who take up arms full of donuts and cookies and cakes, to promote the obese lifestyle.

 

Oprah Winfrey is not at a healthy weight. I don't see anyone here claiming that she is, although I have admittedly not read all 20+ pages of this thread.

[writergal]

She's a symptom, not the sole cause. I don't think anyone here ever said she alone was the problem. The problem is the normalization of overweight. Magazine covers may contribute but they are not solely responsible.

 

 

 

If this is true, then it is also a problem. One doesn't cancel the other out. So we can add drug use to the unhealthy habits of smoking and over-eating.

 

 

 

Nope.

 

According to the CDC, health care access has steadily increased in the time period from 1998 to present, the same time period in which obesity and the health issues related to it have sky-rocketed.

 

 

 

Oprah Winfrey is not at a healthy weight. I don't see anyone here claiming that she is, although I have admittedly not read all 20+ pages of this thread.

 

But why do we have to scapegoat one overweight model for a problem that has been going on for decades? Why her? Why now? There have been other obese women on magazine covers -- like Oprah Winfrey -- yet no one has jumped up to accuse her of starting a 'fat revolution' like Ninjapajamas has accused model Tess Holliday of doing.

[123321]

But why do we have to scapegoat one overweight model for a problem that has been going on for decades? Why her? Why now? There have been other obese women on magazine covers -- like Oprah Winfrey -- yet no one has jumped up to accuse her of starting a 'fat revolution' like Ninjapajamas has accused model Tess Holliday of doing.

 

It's the glowing article, not the model.

 

I don't think anyone here knows Tess, but we can give her the same benefit as anyone else we don't know and assume she's a good person. She's unattractive physically to me, but that doesn't make her bad.

 

The article in the OP, however, is disgusting.

[123321]

And Oprah is on the cover of her own magazine every month!

 

Does she promote the idea that being morbidly obese is a good and acceptable lifestyle choice? I honestly don't know, but I really doubt it, she always seemed like a rational and decent person to me.

[123321]

When I read the 'skeleton wrapped in skin' comment I just rolled my eyes and moved on. Only mentioned it later due to this other thing being blown up as a contrast to the fat lifestyle justification that's going on.

 

This is not a bad way to deal with such comments, IMO and IME.

 

Interestingly, the vast majority of people in this thread have no problem not noticing or even pretending 'skeleton wrapped in skin' never happened. No army of body love supporters. No aspersions cast. No implications that the poster must be a serial killer with a closet of dead bodies.

 

 

Hmmmm.

 

 

Mindless bandwagon hopping is fun!

[pureinheart]

The autistic part of me probably doesn't care much what people here think?

 

This we all get a trophy and love yourself over all else, including in this case possibly literally DYING to love yourself, is just out of control. Being fat doesn't make us bad people, but telling OTHER people that being fat is a great life choice does make us bad people.

 

This is starting to remind me of the campaign back in the 40's/50's that cigarettes were a great thing... and healthy.

[Taramere]

So post a thread quoting or citing an article that glamorizes anorexia as a great life choice and something we should all accept as the new normal, and see what happens.

 

I don't know if you've heard of "pro ana". It's something I'm reluctant to write too much about...but basically it's communities of girls/women giving eachother tough love and inspiration to get as thin as possible. A lot of people with anorexia and/or bulimia very much do see it as a lifestyle choice. It's one of these things that, the more you get into talking about it (with somebody who has a serious eating disorder) the more your head spins.

 

I have similar concerns to other people about fat acceptance movements enabling people to avoid making healthy choices that can (initially) be difficult and take discipline to adhere to. If acceptance movements are about saying "you can look like this and be perfectly healthy" then that's one thing. I have no doubt there are blokes' forums all over the net who would criticise those women to hell and back - but none of them look overweight to an extent that would be likely to result in a medical professional saying "you're putting your health at risk. You need to lose weight."

 

The model this particular thread is about...well, she's 5 ft 5" and something like 280 pounds if I read right. That is a health risk. I should think anybody of that weight would have friends and relatives trying to encourage them to start making healthier choices. However, you have to think about how long it would take her to get down to a healthy weight. Allowing for rapid weight loss in the first couple of months, due to her size, you'd probably be talking about a year if she was doing it in a safe, healthy way and is also extremely disciplined about it.

 

We have a tv programme called Supersize versus Superskinny. I often have doubts about the wisdom of a very overweight and very underweight person swapping diets for a day...but it takes place under medical supervision, and to be fair the main emphasis of the programme is on encouraging long term healthy eating. Here's an episode:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGcst2mPwOc

 

The girl in that programme starts out at just over 22 stone (say around 310 pounds). She loses 2 stone (28 pounds) in the two months covered by that episode, but of course she's still very big after that two months. At the weigh in the doctor (who's not exactly what you would call a fat enabler) and her thin counterpart tell her how great she looks after the two months. And I think she does look very pretty and stylish...but there's no question of them saying "okay, you're a pretty girl so that's all that matters." She still has a big task ahead of her if she wants to get down to a safe weight and have another child without facing a high risk of pregnancy complications. Still, she can dress up, do her hair and look pretty while she's following her plan. She's not barred from feeling pretty and taking an interest in her appearance until she gets down to a healthy weight.

 

That, to me, is the right balance. I have to admit, I'd feel more comfortable about Tess Holliday being featured as a cover model if there was a background context of her acknowledging the risk being that size poses to her health and trying to address it. In other words, being encouraged to feel pretty and stylish while she's changing her lifestyle for the better. In all honesty, in terms of health risks I agree that there isn't that much difference healthwise between somebody Tess Holliday's size saying "accept this as my lifestyle choice and help me celebrate it" and a model who suffers from anorexia saying the same thing. The main difference is that a sizeable number of people (particularly young girls) will look at the anorexic model and see her as disciplined. Of a body size to be aspired to.

 

The chance of them looking at Tess Holliday and thinking the same thing is very minimal. That's probably why a large number of women on this thread aren't taking the "Tess Holliday promoting unhealthy lifestyle choices" very seriously. She has perhaps elected to stay that size because she's getting lucrative modelling work out of it. There's that novelty value aspect of it. I should think that once that dries up and the health risks of being that size become a more imminent risk, she will probably be back on the scene with a series of weight loss books and dvds and a few "I was in denial of the health risks" interviews. That's the media for you, and the people who make their living from it.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Taramere

[123321]

I don't know if you've heard of "pro ana". It's something I'm reluctant to write too much about...but basically it's communities of girls/women giving each other tough love and inspiration to get as thin as possible.

 

I have, it's disgusting.

[Haydn]

Pro mia is rife in my industry. Despite certain regulations that are supposedly in place....

 

Slightly off topic.

[Erised]

no one is asking anyone to be attracted to everyone.

 

They only ask that you not assume your attraction is the primary driver of what one should be, or what should be seen. Or that attraction is the primary point of existence for women period. ThEu ask hat you not feel the need to make comments or any judgment, good or bad, on a person's body.

 

I'm sexually attracted to women from a size 2 and shorter to a size 18 and taller and the range in between. I'm sexually attracted to... Well, I don't know men's sizes but my exes have been 6'1 to 6'5 and weighed between 175 and 350 lb. larger and I lose attraction. Slimmer and I lose attraction. (Bmi not height)

 

That does not mean that those outside that range are wrong, less deserving to be in public or on film or camera represented. My attraction is irrelevant. It doesn't even mean they are not beautiful or attractive to others.

 

Commentary I might have on another person's body does not matter. I do not need to be judging. No one does.

 

Now we can encourage healthy choices like daily exercise for everyone, but we do not meed examples to do that.

A sedentary size 2 woman is not, by the research, more healthy than a size 16 woman who exercises at a moderate at least intensity daily. Likely less.

And, of course, no one owes anyone healthy choices regardless.

The shaming is not an effective means of change, either. Quite the opposite. Supported people are more likely to be comfortable being active and mental health supports physical health.

 

 

I would like to see a range of female and male forms- whether I'm attracted or not- celebrated.

 

I'm not overweight myself and will not become so by seeing overweight women or men not skewered.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Erised

[Emilia]

The reality though is that people judge. Both men and women do. The reason is that we all have our own individual identity and that's based on values. We judge others based on whether they adhere to the same values as us. It's human nature. It manifests itself differently through the population but it's something that everyone does.

 

I've just watched Have I Got News For You on BBC, it's a regular well established satirical programme. I counted three instances of their making fun of fat male politicians, one a joke on a large man having his own post code. They would never dream of making the same comments about women. The panelists are well liked, can't imagine anyone ever complains. Can you make jokes about people's physical appearance on TV?

[Rejected Rosebud]

This really misses the point.

 

We are not facing an increase in drug use and a resultant health crisis.

 

We are facing rapidly rising trends in type 2 diabetes and heart disease, both of which are directly attributable to steady increases in average weight in both genders. The economic costs are staggering.

 

No. YOU are missing the point. Having a fat woman celebrating what she looks like is not adding to the increase of type 2 diabetes and heart disease. More young women will choose to emulate an anorexic junkie who lives a glamorous life and dates guys like Johnny Depp than some random nice looking overweight model.

 

It is a real fact that alot if not most anorexic girls are responding to media pressure to be perfect via being thin, I don't think ANY fat women are responding to media pressure telling us that being fat is the way to success!!

 

It's ironic that most people have no problem seeing smoking for the unhealthy habit it is, but many resist acknowledging that over-eating is just as unhealthy. Instead, we frame the discussion of weight around appearance, which does a disservice to all, imo.

Is anyone here saying that being overweight is healthy?? :confused:

 

Ok then it's also ironic that people have no problem understanding intellectually that it is dangerous to undergo surgery to look "better" do you think maybe we should raise a hue and cry about anybody on a magazine cover who has had some "work done"!!!

[thefooloftheyear]

One thing that I have noticed and maybe its noteworthy with respect to this topic..

 

If there is one thing that I have noticed lately(last 10 years or so) is younger women are heavier than at any other time I can remember...Not only are they heavier, they seem to be at peace with it..They wear clothes that I can honestly say that 30+ years ago, when I was first noticing women/girls they would NEVER wear..I was at the beach and good Lord...The amount of 160+ lb plus young women with two piece bathing suits was astounding...Never seen so many and from what I can recall, there was a time that no woman that big would ever dare wear a two piece..

 

Is this a good thing? Sure, I guess..Less pressure on trying to fit into a mold of the ideal female form, I suppose, but I dunno...

 

Maybe its all a part of what I have observed as a "de-feminizing" of what the previous generations viewed as acceptable..(Maybe thats a poor choice of words, but its all I can think of)...More of a push toward gender equality and more ambiguous ideals of men and women physically...As if maybe there is a push to develop a new standard....Maybe its even because women are working more demanding jobs and just cant keep that size two or trim standard of femininity that was more acceptable in the past..I can see the point there...But again, I dunno...

 

I travel a lot around the country...And its definitely geographic as well.....The average young woman's idea of whats considered "good" in Ohio or Pennsylvania is far different from NYC or Texas,,..

 

I think men have undergone a change as well..less emphasis on ruggedness, beef and size and more emphasis on being stick thin and lean..But I guess we'll leave that discussion for another thread...

 

Disclaimer...Understand I make no judgements here, just reporting observations....

 

TFY

Edited May 31, 2015 by thefooloftheyear

[sweetjasmine]

So post a thread quoting or citing an article that glamorizes anorexia as a great life choice and something we should all accept as the new normal, and see what happens.

 

You won't see articles in People glamorizing eating disorders directly (just as you won't see them publish an "eat 4000 calories every day to look amazing!" piece along with this model's photos), but there have been celebrities on the cover who have suffered those illnesses. How much different is it when you put Calista Flockhart on the cover and fawn over how slim she is?

 

The more insidious and subtle version of this is found in just about every checkout aisle magazine, which are all full of "I lost 30 lbs in 2 weeks and you can too!" articles promoting disordered eating habits like frequent "cleanses" or absurd celebrity diets that are nutritionally and calorically deficient or exercise regimens that can be more harmful than good or garbage miracle weight loss products, like diet pills that can be a lot more hazardous than carrying an extra 10 lbs. So many women fall prey to that crap, and it's disingenuous to ignore that kind of thing if you're actually concerned about public health and promoting healthy lifestyles.

[SpiralOut]

Ninja, just wait until you read articles about "thin privilege" as if we were uncontrollable, like skin color...

 

And yes, there is definitely an epidemic of overweight people (not just women) along with an insistence that no one should speak negatively of the trend of ever-increasing BMI. At the same time, we are being asked to fund each other's health care, so yes, this is very much everyone's issue and problem.

 

ETA: There is also a concurrent movement to insult people of normal weight, especially women, by referring to them as "skinny," "skeletal," "without curves," and so on. As mentioned by another poster, it's happened several times in this thread alone and no one has spoken up.

 

 

Several people including myself have made comments about skinny shaming. I've dealt with it most of my life and yeah it's not fun. As for the comments, I didn't see them as I didn't read every post in this thread. Believe me I would have said something.... which page was that on? This thread is getting a bit long to read all the way through.

Edited June 1, 2015 by SpiralOut

[Taramere]

The more insidious and subtle version of this is found in just about every checkout aisle magazine, which are all full of "I lost 30 lbs in 2 weeks and you can too!" articles promoting disordered eating habits like frequent "cleanses" or absurd celebrity diets that are nutritionally and calorically deficient or exercise regimens that can be more harmful than good or garbage miracle weight loss products, like diet pills that can be a lot more hazardous than carrying an extra 10 lbs. So many women fall prey to that crap, and it's disingenuous to ignore that kind of thing if you're actually concerned about public health and promoting healthy lifestyles.

 

I think the obsession with dieting and fitness plays a major role in the development of eating disorders generally. Whether that involves a person starving themselves for days on end, or going on mega binges and purging or just going on mega binges and getting bigger and bigger. I think a plus sized model like Tess Holliday is inspirational in terms of telling bigger women "don't hide yourselves away until you feel thin enough to be sseen in public. Just get out there and live your life." However, I have a feeling that with a lot of extremely overweight women, actually living that message would automatically result in weight loss - just by going out and living their lives, instead of hiding away (and perhaps comfort eating a lot). Maybe they'll always be a bit plump - and it's perfectly possible for a woman to be somewhat overweight without jeopardising her health at all - contrary to people who think we should all look like we're training for a marathon.

 

I was reading about the fat acceptance movement, and it seemed as though some of the women who came into contact with it felt under pressure to deny that they did in fact have an eating disorder. I can see shades of the pro-ana/pro-mia "it's a lifestyle choice" thinking there. I think it's a worry if models like Tess Holliday somehow become part of a promotion to deny that over-eating can be a disordered behaviour in the same way that starving and purging can be. Healthy eating is the best lifestyle choice. People following a basically nutritious diet, but not totally depriving themselves of some of the good stuff in life. Whenever I've stayed in France, I've always felt as though I was overeating because of all this great food that got served up to me. Lots of cheese sauces etc - yet I never put on weight during a spell in France. With hindsight, it's probably because you don't really feel tempted to eat between meals in a society where there's such an emphasis on mealtimes - which can last for quite a long time.

 

As a woman who's always been in her health weight range (albeit often at the upper end of it) almost inevitably, given people's obsession with wome's bodies, I've had times when some people told me I was fat, and the occasional time when I've been told I was getting too thin. When my friend talks about what the hospital staff define as "eating disordered behaviour" it sounds to me as though I've got a fair bit of it myself.

 

Not just me, but pretty much every damn woman in the Western world who has ever followed a diet or followed advice like "use a smaller plate to kid your body that it's a bigger serving than it really is". My friend and other patients have to have snacks like scones, pancakes, crisps (chips) or chocolate bars. That sounds ludicrous to me. None of that stuff is remotely healthy. I asked her whether she'd be allowed things like houmous and chopped carrots as a snack. No, because that's "eating disordered". It really worries me to hear stuff like that. You think "oh come on! Of course you want to get her eating - but surely healthy eating is a good thing. Why does anything other than stodgy crap have to be considered 'eating disordered'?"

 

Then I remember when I worked in a kids' home and got told off for buying too much fruit when it was my turn to do the weekly shop. I kid you not. Nobody minded staff going way over budget and buying tons of really crappy, unhealthy food - but I got told off for staying within budget, buying a few unhealthy snacks as treats but focusing on stocking up on plenty of fruit, veg and salady stuff.

 

So it does happen. You do get people out there who should really know better, but who try to insist that healthy is in some way disordered - because they feel threatened by the different choices you make. Even if you haven't actually passed judgement on their choices (though I must admit I didn't particularly approve of all the crap some of the staff bought during the weekly shop - but I knew I'd be outnumbered if I said anything), you're doing so simply by making different choices. And though I have no truck with humiliating people for being overweight, I do wonder if there are some pretty dodgy ideas being pushed by the fat acceptance movement.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Taramere