"Fat" revolution?

[Timshel]

Dude, it's so over done. Honest, happy horse **** and all that. Your hand has been played.

[123321]

I think a lot of people have made the point already that this plus sized model on a magazine cover is highly unlikely to lead slim, fit women to say "that's exactly what I want to look like. I need to start disciplining myself to eat more ice cream."

 

I don't really have a problem with her, what I have a problem with is the breathless article that was part of the OP. It's basically saying "oh at last people understand that this is just the way I am and it's OK and everything is fine and everyone who is like this is OK and it's all fine and we can stop worrying about diabetes!"

 

Which is of course, horsesh*t.

 

The grim reaper won't care how happy a fat person is with their body. He'll just come collect them and reunite them with their amputated left foot.

[123321]

If a woman isn't very obese - if she's just, say, 10 to 15 pounds over the higher end of her ideal then the reality is that even if aesthetically she doesn't look at her best, in health terms she's probably not significantly worse off (if at all) than she would be if she dropped the excess weight.

 

A BMI of almost 47 (5' 5 and 280) isn't 10-15 pounds over ideal.

 

Also, I would never poke fun at a fat person (or people in general) over weight or most other things.

[todreaminblue]

Comparing 9/11 and what, genocide (?) to a brief joke made at the expense of a celebrity who isn't even aware of it (and who has suffered no harm whatsoever) in an attempt to point out that the article that prompted the comment is promoting something that's potentially lethal ....

 

If I direct an insult at you, that's shame on me. If you decide to feel bad about something that's not about you, that's up to you. While I'm sorry you feel bad, it's still all up to you. As my doctor told me (WRT the health risks of continuing to gain weight, ironically) "this is within your control".

 

 

lack of compassion can be lethal......being overweight can be lethal

 

i also used the word extremism of a lack of compassion for 9/11.....it was an extreme lack of compassion......

 

 

like all heartless and wounding things done to people ...they start somewhere.....with one person...against another....small and little and shrugged off......no less lethal though once it spreads and infects the hearts of others....what you need to create a world wide tragedy....is just add a charismatic motivational leader who is psychotic and bobs your uncle......so where do you define the line between little and too much.....

 

i never circled like a shark...i never skinny shamed anyone...and i agree its nto healthy...doesnt mean i feel that anyoen has the right to make me feel ....anything but respected....and as a size 22 woman...i felt disrespected....the words you used to describe her affected me.....but keep on justifying for you are right it isnt healthy.....so keep ridiculing a woman who is overweight,,,,,,who am i to say you shouldnt.....deb

..

[Taramere]

Tess Holliday's photo does have an effect: a positive one.

 

I know that's hard for men to understand. The truth is, no fit, healthy woman is looking at Jess and thinking, "I'd rather look like that. I'm going to stop my healthy lifestyle and gain 150 pounds."

 

But the women who look more like Jess already may feel a little better about themselves, and that can lead to feeling more comfortable in work out clothes, more comfortable playing sports, more comfortable at the gym, and so on.

 

That's the thing. It's like when somebody very overweight comes into the gym. Anybody who would smirk or sneer at them would probably not be the kind of person most gyms would want to entertain on their premises. After all, people who want to get into shape are a major source of revenue for these places, and it doesn't make sense to scare them away.

 

If somebody who is very overweight were to read through this thread, what would they likely be thinking? They'd be looking at comments from people who talk a lot about going to the gym, and they'd probably think "Oh Jesus. These ****ers are going to make it a thoroughly unpleasant and humiliating experience. They'll be sniggering like teenage bullies about my ass, my thighs, my stomach etc"

 

That's often why people don't go. I have friends who, when I mention the gym, will say "Oh my God, you wouldn't catch me dead in that place." Well, if they were to go there they would see lots of before and after photographs of members that the gym proudly has on display. Probably a lot of the members aren't exactly thrilled about it, but there's a general sense of people agreeing to participate in it because it helps others. It's going to be easier for a 200 pound woman walking in there if she knows that the slim, toned woman hurtling along on the treadmill was in her shoes at one point.

 

Easier still if there's a "before" photograph of that woman on the gym wall because she's agreed that she's not going to try to pretend she was never anything but slim, fit and hard bodied. It creates a more supportive environment.

 

People aren't laughing or sneering at the bigger gym goers. They're rooting for them. Throwing out supportive comments when the personal trainers are putting them through their paces. Giving them a bit of love, basically, for having the courage to get in there, as exposed as they feel, and start aiming for a better life.

 

If anybody were to ever shame any of those people for their size, the gym instructors would be lining up to kick their backsides out of the place. As professionals who are helping people like that all the time, they know that support and encouragement is what gets them to a better place. Not shaming and sneering.

[todreaminblue]

That's the thing. It's like when somebody very overweight comes into the gym. Anybody who would smirk or sneer at them would probably not be the kind of person most gyms would want to entertain on their premises. After all, people who want to get into shape are a major source of revenue for these places, and it doesn't make sense to scare them away.

 

If somebody who is very overweight were to read through this thread, what would they likely be thinking? They'd be looking at comments from people who talk a lot about going to the gym, and they'd probably think "Oh Jesus. These ****ers are going to make it a thoroughly unpleasant and humiliating experience. They'll be sniggering like teenage bullies about my ass, my thighs, my stomach etc"

 

That's often why people don't go. I have friends who, when I mention the gym, will say "Oh my God, you wouldn't catch me dead in that place." Well, if they were to go there they would see lots of before and after photographs of members that the gym proudly has on display. Probably a lot of the members aren't exactly thrilled about it, but there's a general sense of people agreeing to participate in it because it helps others. It's going to be easier for a 200 pound woman walking in there if she knows that the slim, toned woman hurtling along on the treadmill was in her shoes at one point.

 

Easier still if there's a "before" photograph of that woman on the gym wall because she's agreed that she's not going to try to pretend she was never anything but slim, fit and hard bodied. It creates a more supportive environment.

 

People aren't laughing or sneering at the bigger gym goers. They're rooting for them. Throwing out supportive comments when the personal trainers are putting them through their paces. Giving them a bit of love, basically, for having the courage to get in there, as exposed as they feel, and start aiming for a better life.

 

If anybody were to ever shame any of those people for their size, the gym instructors would be lining up to kick their backsides out of the place. As professionals who are helping people like that all the time, they know that support and encouragement is what gets them to a better place. Not shaming and sneering.

 

 

thats why i walk at night in the dark mostly by myself.........that's why when i go to gym ill go to a 24 hour gym.....when i can go when noone is there.....to see me struggle and sweat and hurt....and ill lose the weight......and then when i feel i look enough not to be ridiculed...ill face the masses. and ill pay for a personal trainer......to work one on one with me....and when im fit and gorgeous in the eyes of the masses... if i see anyone shaming another....i stand up then too...and people will listen then...your post is true and also compassionate.........thankyou...deb

Edited May 30, 2015 by todreaminblue

[Taramere]

Also, I would never poke fun at a fat person (or people in general) over weight or most other things.

 

Well, you kind of do at times, but personally I don't think you're that harsh. Just a bit persistent, maybe - but we're all that at times. I've seen far more cruel things on the internet than I've ever read from you.

 

Probably a lot of people might say "hey I wouldn't actually comment on somebody's size or make them feel bad if they were in my gym". And I'm sure most people wouldn't. But there are probably millions of people out there who read fat-shaming comments on the internet, and feel even more determined as a result of those comments to never go anywhere near a gym.

 

Which is why it's so important to give people positive messages that they're going to be respected and supported by other gymgoers from the moment they set foot in that gym...regardless of what size they are. Quite a few people on this board have indicated that they work in the fitness industry. I read the comments some of them make and think to myselrf "well, how is that supposed to help convince a person with a poor body image that going to the gym will not be a terrible and humiliating experience for them?"

[123321]

lack of compassion can be lethal......being overweight can be lethal

 

i also used the word extremism of a lack of compassion for 9/11.....it was an extreme lack of compassion......

 

In much the same way that drowning is "an extreme sip of water."

 

Tess is a celebrity, she's big enough to ignore much more than this.

[todreaminblue]

In much the same way that drowning is "an extreme sip of water."

 

Tess is a celebrity, she's big enough to ignore much more than this.

 

yes it is actually you drown from taking too many sips of water....so owhich one would you choose to take away the first sip that led to drowning or the last one that actually killed you..

 

 

i dont want to fight with you anymore.....we differ on opinion you actually did offend me....and you arent sorry you say that your words werent about me.... i accept that...tess might be able to take the ridicule...me...i never could i just stood there and took it all....i dont anymore when i feel disrespected.......and honestly...i think i have had enough............i wish you well..deb.....

Edited May 30, 2015 by todreaminblue

[Taramere]

thats why i walk at night in the dark mostly by myself.........that's why when i go to gym ill go to a 24 hour gym.....when i can go when noone is there.....to see me struggle and sweat and hurt....and ill lose the weight......and then when i feel i look enough not to be ridiculed...ill face the masses. and ill pay for a personal trainer......to work one on one with me....and when im fit and gorgeous in the eyes of the masses... if i see anyone shaming another....i stand up then too...and people will listen then...your post is true and also compassionate.........thankyou...deb

 

Ask around a bit Deb, and find out which gyms have a more accessible feel to them. Probably their websites will help you get a sense of that too. A personal trainer is a great idea, too. Having somebody helping you work out will help you to feel more confident. Give you a better sense of belonging there.

 

You should start looking into it today. Three months from now, you could be a regular at a gym where you're developing a good connection with other people who can see the progress you're making and are boosting you up about it and sharing their own stories with you.

[todreaminblue]

Ask around a bit Deb, and find out which gyms have a more accessible feel to them. Probably their websites will help you get a sense of that too. A personal trainer is a great idea, too. Having somebody helping you work out will help you to feel more confident. Give you a better sense of belonging there.

 

You should start looking into it today. Three months from now, you could be a regular at a gym where you're developing a good connection with other people who can see the progress you're making and are boosting you up about it and sharing their own stories with you.

 

 

thanks tara, ill go back to my old personal trainer....i love her..i trust her........she used to train police officers she is tough funny and she cares......but i have to drop some weight first and night walking....no one bothers me.....i have started already...and im exercising at home when in my room.....with core strengthening exercises.....thankyou...smilin........deb...

[Maleficent]

I don't really have a problem with her, what I have a problem with is the breathless article that was part of the OP. It's basically saying "oh at last people understand that this is just the way I am and it's OK and everything is fine and everyone who is like this is OK and it's all fine and we can stop worrying about diabetes!"

 

Which is of course, horsesh*t.

 

The grim reaper won't care how happy a fat person is with their body. He'll just come collect them and reunite them with their amputated left foot.

 

And complaining about this here will do what? Because other than making people already struggling with weight issues feel more ****ty about themselves, you aren't doing much.

 

Why don't you write to the magazine that published the article with your concerns about the effects if this article on their readers?

[123321]

Well, you kind of do at times, but personally I don't think you're that harsh. Just a bit persistent, maybe - but we're all that at times. I've seen far more cruel things on the internet than I've ever read from you.

 

Probably a lot of people might say "hey I wouldn't actually comment on somebody's size or make them feel bad if they were in my gym". And I'm sure most people wouldn't. But there are probably millions of people out there who read fat-shaming comments on the internet, and feel even more determined as a result of those comments to never go anywhere near a gym.

 

Which is why it's so important to give people positive messages that they're going to be respected and supported by other gymgoers from the moment they set foot in that gym...regardless of what size they are. Quite a few people on this board have indicated that they work in the fitness industry. I read the comments some of them make and think to myselrf "well, how is that supposed to help convince a person with a poor body image that going to the gym will not be a terrible and humiliating experience for them?"

 

 

I might; I don't try to. In the case of this comment, if Tess were here as a member, or was the OP and she was trying to promote herself or something I would certainly be more circumspect. On top of that she really is a huge celebrity and she has invited, and is accustomed to, a large body of attention.

 

I do think she's unattractive but that's just my opinion, others will have other opinions, and that doesn't make her a bad person. Some people don't like Asians, some people can't stand redheads. Some people can't stand fake boobs. Whatever. In fact I'm not clear if this unhealthy lifestyle promotion is her or just the author of the article, I would like to think it's just the latter.

 

As for the gym, that's probably a brilliant idea but really most people that hit the gym do it all wrong, and on top of that they depend or trust in the gym too much. If a person is camping at a BMI near 50, they need to see a doctor first, who will likely recommend medication, a nutritionist, and exercise. Just hitting the gym, while certainly a positive change, won't cut it.

 

I'm not an oil painting and I never felt out of place at any gyms I was going to. The place I work now has a full gym and weight room on site so that's really nice; many places have this now so maybe that's an option for some.

 

Simple things like walking to work daily are a good way to go as well.

 

The #1 effective thing for me has been simply to become accustomed to being hungry. When I find myself heading out to graze I take stock of what I've eaten, and when, and how my body REALLY feels. Hunger (barring a metabolic condition) won't actually kill most of us. It's actually good and normal to a degree.

[Imajerk17]

I guess I am confused. They put *one* size-22 woman on the cover and there's suddenly a "fat" revolution?

 

Not seeing the argument about health either. I don't think starving yourself as many other models were doing up until very recently is any healthier.

 

I for one am glad to see thicker women being celebrated more. Men have been going for curvier women all along--actually women of a variety of shapes and sizes--and if this all helps towards a more positive self-image then that's great.

[writergal]

I guess I am confused. They put *one* size-22 woman on the cover and there's suddenly a "fat" revolution?

 

Not seeing the argument about health either. I don't think starving yourself as many other models were doing up until very recently is any healthier.

 

I for one am glad to see thicker women being celebrated more. Men have been going for curvier women all along--actually women of a variety of shapes and sizes--and if this all helps towards a more positive self-image then that's great.

 

+1! Awesome post! Thank you!

[123321]

Not seeing the argument about health either. I don't think starving yourself as many other models were doing up until very recently is any healthier.

 

This is a false dichotomy, and it's become quite fashionable to be critical of super thin models anyway. When someone said (in this thread, no less) a thin person reminded them of "a skeleton wrapped in skin" no army of harpies descended to defend the sisterhood.

 

On top of that ... come back and make a point when the USA has a widespread problem with most of the population being too thin. Until it starts to tip that direction, it's really not a huge public health menace.

 

Have you heard about the obesity epidemic in America? Because THAT is actually real.

[123321]

yes it is actually you drown from taking too many sips of water....so owhich one would you choose to take away the first sip that led to drowning or the last one that actually killed you..

 

The one after you're not thirsty would be where to stop. If you keep skipping the first one, you die.

[writergal]

There is no 'fat' revolution. Fat people are not taking up arms and pounding down people's doors to raid kitchen cupboards, pantries, refrigerator/freezers. That's a misnomer meant to falsely accuse ONE PERSON (Tess Holliday, who happens to be engaged to an Australian businessman so she's done well for herself despite all the harpoon/whale references made against her) of being the spokesperson for every single overweight person because she modeled for the cover of a magazine.

 

Here is a world map of obesity. It's not just a problem in the U.S. It's a problem all over the world.

 

I've listed out statistics just in case people want to deny that obesity doesn't happen outside the U.S. because it does.

 

Statistics of obesity in different countries:

 

(not every country is listed below)

 

U.S. = 33.3% men and 35.8% women

 

Canada = 27.6 men and 23.5% women

 

Mexico = 26.8% men and 37.5% women

 

England = 26% men and 23.8% women

 

Scotland = 23.7% men and 29.3% women

 

Ireland = 25.8% men and 21.3% women

 

Spain = 24.4% men and 21.4% women

 

Australia = 25.6% men and 24.0% women

 

New Zealand = 24.7% men and 26.0% women

 

South Africa = 10.6% men and 39.2% women

 

Saudi Arabia = 31.5%men and 50.4% women

 

Egypt = 21.4% men and 41.6% women

 

Venezuala = 34.2% men and 32.4% women

 

So will there be a handicapped revolution, if a handicapped person models on the cover of a magazine? Oh look. Someone already has! New Mobility Magazine.

 

Ninjapajamas, I normally enjoy your threads but I gotta say, this one takes the cake. It's ludicrous to accuse an overweight model of something as sinister as starting a fat revolution. The reality is: she is a beautiful overweight women who embraces her body and has positive self-esteem about herself. She's clearly doing well for herself and I commend her for that.

[thefooloftheyear]

I love women, I really do. But I really think that some ladies really need to learn how to handle things better.

 

When my friends all gather together this weekend I am absolutely certain a few fat jokes will get tossed around, as well as a few skinny jokes. At no point will anyone use the fat shaming defense. A little while ago, a friend of mine was talking about his dating woes, and asked me what was going on. I told him, "dude, you're frickin fat! You should come to the gym with me and the guys and lift some weights like a man." He didn't get upset that I wasn't enabling him to love his body, he actually started working out. Now he has lost a lot of weight, looks better, is healthier, and is actually getting dates. I have the utmost respect for him. He realized his weight was a problem, didn't cry about it, and chose to do something about it instead.

 

I think the problem is that too many overweight women are just unwilling to do anything to help themselves. They'd rather fabricate thyroid problems, talk about how "curvy" women are better, and accuse everyone who doesn't agree of fat shaming. It's cool to be happy with yourself, but it's stupid to be happy about eating yourself into a life of diabetes and high blood pressure .

 

 

I have a few friends with the same first name(Ill use Fred for the sake of anonymity)...Anyway, this one guy calls himself Fat Fred,,,In fact, I have him stored in my mobile contacts as Fat Fred....

 

TFY

[guest569]

Well as a feminist, the only thing i have an issue with is the fact that weight is a GENDER issue. You are calling fat women a FEMINIST issue. PEOPLE come in all shapes and sizes, but men can get away with being fat slobs more so than women. Historically we have been expected to be skeletal. Whilst I agree with you that it is harmful to put our heads in the sand and tell ourselves that it is ok to be obese, ..

 

if your concern is that society is making you screw fat women, seriously get a grip. THERE Are more issues such as obesity in general and the health implications. If you dont like fat women, dont have sex with them. The end.

 

Also, look up the definitions of revolution and feminism.

Edited May 31, 2015 by smiley1

[jay1983]

I have a few friends with the same first name(Ill use Fred for the sake of anonymity)...Anyway, this one guy calls himself Fat Fred,,,In fact, I have him stored in my mobile contacts as Fat Fred....

 

TFY

 

We all know Italian American NYers are Tony. Fat Tony, skinny Tony, short Tony. Lol

[123321]

It's not just a problem in the U.S. It's a problem all over the world.

 

Oh, well I guess if we're ALL getting diabetes together then that's great then. I was worried it would just be Americans.

[todreaminblue]

The one after you're not thirsty would be where to stop. If you keep skipping the first one, you die.

 

 

 

the last thing you feel when drowning is thirsty......you wish you had never even entered the water......showing a lack of compassion can lead to also wishing you never started...considering you arent the only one swimming..and the ripple effect is often unknown.........deb

[todreaminblue]

The one after you're not thirsty would be where to stop. If you keep skipping the first one, you die.

 

 

 

 

you took that totally out of context as per usual you have done that to my posts...where as i have posted yours in their entirety.......this allegory drowning thing it was your contextual idea to begin with...

 

 

the last thing you want to do when you are drowning is take a sip of water....just like most obese people who are or have been shown a distinct lack of compassion want to be shown another sip or even the first sip of disrespect given.....let alone take it.......i guess until you have to fight to be shown a little compassion for your very self worth....and have to physically fight and stand up for your rights.......you cannot understand how it means not to be shown compassion and nor then do you understand why then someone would fight for others to be shown the same courtesy the same respect ...the same gracious humanity........for that reason.....i wish you well.....deb

[Taramere]

I love women, I really do. But I really think that some ladies really need to learn how to handle things better.

 

When my friends all gather together this weekend I am absolutely certain a few fat jokes will get tossed around, as well as a few skinny jokes. At no point will anyone use the fat shaming defense. A little while ago, a friend of mine was talking about his dating woes, and asked me what was going on. I told him, "dude, you're frickin fat! You should come to the gym with me and the guys and lift some weights like a man."

 

 

I think women are often wise to put on a bit of a suit of armour when they're around men, so that they're better prepared to laugh things off. If they have to do that too much of the time then....well, I've known or known of quite a few women who have learned to be very adept at having the appearance of being robust and able to laugh everything off, but who are covering up some very problematic issues.

 

Extreme obesity is likely to be underpinned by more than just a lack of discipline when it comes to food. The chances are there will be a lot of fairly complex issues that the person has never learned to deal with in a truly effective way. The obese, endlessly jolly persona is one such coping mechanism. A child might learn that laughing at himself for being fat is a way of winning friends (albeit ones whose affection is tempered with a certain lack of respect on account of him always being the clown of the group). So the obese, jolly type becomes a major part of who he is, and protects him from the pain of being ridiculed. You know your friend. If you think he's fine with the approach you adopted, you're most probably right. You spoke to him in a way that's blunter than I would use with friends, but you weren't ridiculing or shaming him. It sounds like a matter of fact exchange.

 

Fat shaming is more about people expressing disgust or contempt. Or ridiculing a person with laughter. At the root of it is a lack of respect. A lot of men don't respect women very much. I don't need to tell you that. You're a guy. However much respect you personally may have for women, it's absolutely inevitable that you've heard plenty of the kind of locker room style discourse about women that is extremely disrespectful in its nature. You've probably engaged in it yourself at times, as part of fitting in with the group. I grew up with an older brother. I know how it is.

 

Bear in mind that from the age of about 14, most girls who take any interest in their physical appearance (and even plenty who don't take much interest) will run a regular gauntlet of comments about their appearance from complete strangers. Some will shout compliments, some will shout insults....most of it is all about making their friends laugh at the expense of the girl or woman. If the woman is upset or angry about it, that's either irrelevant or it adds to the fun. We know. We live it. We're not stupid.

 

So the question for us is, how do we manage that? How do we cope with being disrespected on a regular basis? Probably in similar ways, a lot of the time, to the ways in which men who find themselves disrespected on a regular basis cope. Some of us will learn to laugh it off. Some will toss insults back (something I'd never advise a lone person of either gender passing an offensive group - but I must admit, it's something I've done myself now and again when they caught me in an angry mood).

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with women handling it by calling it as they see it. Calling it ridicule, disrespect or fat shaming. Instead of pretending, for the sake of playing nice, that they think it's something more benevolent.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Taramere