BS shame / Revelation terror

[merrmeade]

In a nutshell: BH was a serial cheater for decades, five affairs I know about (no ILY, some sex), two with family, one with a friend. Family knows about only one.

 

He trickle-truthed for 2 yrs, probably has toxic shame. MC went nowhere. I gave up and started IC 6 mos ago.

 

IC really got to me yesterday with these exchanges:

• I said my WH's very presence is still a trigger, day in and day out. Therapist pointed out that I am a trigger for him as well, for his shame.
  
• I said I don't see real progress in trying to be normal, whole again. I see my entire married life as a lie, feel hopeless about getting over it, hate that he buries and denies and won't look at himself. I’m Humpty Dumpty and will never get put back together again.
  
• She disagreed and said I’ve been working and processing for 2-1/2 years, but it’s been a lot. I agreed and noted that the crap with my sister-in-law (last OW) was a separate issue, which only resolved after my brother's death. She said I’m in a trap and feeling it now because I'm at the top of the ‘trap,’ wanting out.
  
• The 'trap' is my 'shame' which I keep secret: BH’s other As with family/friend
  I've told no one but her. She invited me to think - just think - about sharing it.

 

Deterrents to exposure: Imagining the future, which is terrifying on a large scale and small. We didn't have time to flesh out the scenarios in IC, discussed it a little - what he would say, what I would do, what my kids would do, what his family would do, what it would be like to see him with another companion, what growing old alone would be like. Will start sloshing through this next time.

 

If anyone listened to the recent TED Talk by Esther Perlman, she talked about 'shame' of reconciling, not wanting others to know what you're 'settling' for.

 

I am NOT ready to act on anything. This is about shame (mine), and I need to move slowly, gently. I’m not going to respond to rough-shod posts that just reinforce the finger-pointing. The topic is NOT why did I reconcile or why don’t I leave his sorry ass tomorrow. I already said that I feel like a sorry chicken, so it doesn’t help to call me a sorry chicken.

 

The topic is freeing myself of this shame and whether exposure helps or makes worse. Right now it seems like it would make it worse.

Edited May 29, 2015 by merrmeade

[66Charger]

Dang Mermeade. 5 affairs? Dont understand how YOU feel shame. I have respected your post and will listen to your words and not comment on the ASS.

[66Charger]

Ok, I do have a theory. With no exposure, both of you carry the shame. Picture yourself at a family event. You know, he knows and she knows. You feel all eyes are looking at the 3 of you and you feel shame (why I dont know)

With exposure all eyes shift. Away from you. The shame is where it rightfully belongs.

 

IMHO

[merrmeade]

Dang Mermeade. 5 affairs? Dont understand how YOU feel shame. I have respected your post and will listen to your words and not comment on the ASS.

That's the point. I don't have any words. I'm trying to 'be' with this thing. I'm with this awful story. I shouldn't be and I don't disturb anyone's life by telling it.

 

My closest friend didn't want to get involved. The A was with family. It makes 'nice' people look trashy.

 

My kids only know about the one. We have a nice thing being grandparents, all living in the same town, new grandbaby, a third on the way. Everybody likes this. I like it. Why can't I be okay and forget?

 

Did you watch the Esther Perlman video?

[merrmeade]

Ok, I do have a theory. With no exposure, both of you carry the shame. Picture yourself at a family event. You know, he knows and she knows. You feel all eyes are looking at the 3 of you and you feel shame (why I dont know)

With exposure all eyes shift. Away from you. The shame is where it rightfully belongs. IMHO

Right. Sort of but not quite. Worse even.

 

We don't see them. He interacts with his brother. Since I found out, I haven't seen them.

 

But that's not the point. Point is that it eats away at me.

[BetrayedH]

What do you have to be ashamed of?

[ladydesigner]

(((Mermeade))) I'm so sorry you feel this way! I feel exactly the same as you and my WHs A's have been exposed. I am stuck in Limbo and not sure how much longer I can stand feeling like this. If I still feel the same in a year I'm thinking I need to leave for my sanity. Just wanted to let you know you were heard and that you are not alone in feeling this way.

[66Charger]

But that's not the point. Point is that it eats away at me.

 

Slap him when that happens

[merrmeade]

What do you have to be ashamed of?

It's not rational. And I'm not really sure. Because it becomes the family's shame I guess. He belongs to us.

[VeryBrokenMan]

I highly recommend these TED talks by Brene Brown on shame:

 

 

and

 

Brené Brown: Listening to shame | Talk Video | TED.com

 

I never realized how shame could be toxic (or even understood it) until watching these.

[zinger]

I have nothing to add and can only thank you enormously for finding time and capacity to post on my thread.

 

[back to hiding]

[VeryBrokenMan]

BTW I'm in a similar position with disclosing to family and dealing with how I feel about them knowing rather than what my fWW wants. She has said she will do it willingly if asked but I'm lost trying to decide if that makes me better or worse. There is no easy answer.

[66Charger]

Mermeade since you state you have grandchildren I will assume you are slightly over 39. I dont see why you are wasting time feeling bad about this. You need to enjoy every minute of every day for the rest of your life. You have kept your dignity and he has lost his honor. There is HIS story and there is YOUR story. Each one is a seperate book with some overlap. You still have lots of empty pages to fill. What will you write? Go get your happiness anyway you can. Enjoy every sunrise, fresh air, grandchildren screaming and fighting. Etc

 

Why exactly are you wasting time on this? Ok keep the old dog tied in the barn, but put some stars on as many pages that are left in the book that is called Mermeades Life.

[Artie Lang]

like most people, after 5 affairs- two with family... one being your SIL -i too am dumbfounded as to why you want to stay with such a POS[pardon my "french," but that's what he seems to be.].

 

 

may this be your basis for feeling shame? sticking by such a man who was/is capable of such abhorrent behavior.

 

 

can you elaborate on who knows about that "one" incident that you have exposed. do the spouses/SO of these family friends know? this is an EXTREME form of cheating behavior by your husband. i wonder if the lack of exposure on your part contributed to his continued infidelity- you know... NO CONSEQUENCES.

[understand50]

"The topic is freeing myself of this shame and whether exposure helps or makes worse. Right now it seems like it would make it worse." merrmeade

 

merrmeade,

 

I can relate. In the over 40 years from my wife's ONS before we were married, I have not talk to a soul other then my wife about it. The thought of it coming out, is unthinkable. So, we both keep the secret.

 

In thinking that I would feel, or do I feel shame, about forgiving her, is a good question. I have written that one can "forgive, but never forget" and that is true. For myself, I learned to put the whole thing away, and did, until the financial infidelity came about, and my overwhelming need to have no secrets on anything between us, came out hard. I could not have her keeping things from me, and asked and investigated everything. I decided to acknowledge, my hurt, and my pain in what happened so long ago.

 

I try and only give my opinion, if I have some experience with the same or similar. In your case, you give such good insights, and you show such empathy, to others, I ask you, can you give the same to yourself? If you were reading this post from someone else, what would you write? Can you write a post to yourself? Can you give yourself that advise and insight only merrmeade on LS can? Take a step back and see.

 

There is no shame in your actions. You stayed and reconciled because it was in your own best interest to do so. Only you, and you alone can know what is best for you, your kids, and your life. I wrote, not long ago, that reconciliation, is hard work, takes courage, and just plain guts. You have those qualities. What is to be ashamed of? You are a strong and smart woman, this shows in what you write.

 

Reconciliation is harder then just divorce, as you must face the pain and hurt each day. There is no magic way, but for me, I allow myself to feel that pain when it comes, and then know that it will pass and then I work to reconnect with my wife. For me, I know that this happened, but I am resolved to not let effect me now. I know that to keep my marriage together during all that has happened, is something to be proud of.

 

I want to stay married, and I know several things. No one can live with me, and I can not live with her, if I am angry at her all the time. So I choose not to be, but it does not mean that it is gone, just put aside. The other, is that I decided to stay with her, after both things, and I must work on our relationship with her if we are to remain married. She must work as well, maybe harder, but I can only control myself, and by changing my actions, I can change the reality of our marriage.

 

I do not know what your path will be, I would suggest, a date night each week, to reconnect. While, IC and MC is good, I would also suggest a monthly talk where you can discuss, question and work out the issues between you both. The point is, you must bring out the shame and pain, and not hide it, but you must not let it overwhelm you. Face it, discuss it, and it will diminish over time. It did for me, but it does not go completely away. I accept that, and that is a win for me.

 

I hope this helps, and I wish you luck.

984

[velvette]

My advice is tell people who will support you.

 

 

With regard to family, I agree it would probably be healthy to share the affairs involving family. You don't need to share the others unless it will give you support.

 

 

Secrets can be as toxic as shame and they can disconnect you from others.

 

 

I don't really agree that staying is the new shame. There's no reason to adopt the projection of others/strangers that you should be ashamed to stay.

 

 

That is really about their fear that the same thing could happen to them.

 

 

You don't owe anyone except yourself an explanation for the fact that you stay or why you stay. Live your life for yourself not other people.

 

 

The only reason to have shame is much like the reasons for having guilt or regret. Did you do something wrong? Do you need to change your behavior? Do you need to make amends to someone for something? Work that issue with your therapist. If there is a legitimate reason for shame, let it motivate you to do what you need to do in your own self interest. Otherwise, work on letting it go.

 

 

Your H needs to carry his own shame. I would recommend you insist he enter IC to stay married to you. He needs to get to the bottom of what is broken in him to allow the behavior he engaged in.

[Ronni_W]

The topic is freeing myself of this shame and whether exposure helps or makes worse. Right now it seems like it would make it worse.

Hugs, merrmeade.

 

A different question is: would freeing yourself of this shame help or make things worse?

What came to mind is that, perhaps, the 'shame' is coming from a part of you that dislikes the dishonesty in not telling certain people -- the ones you love, care about, value -- the whole truth?

 

You are calling the honesty that would be needed on your part, "exposure"...which latter label can then act as a discouragement or as blinders that prevent you from being able to come apart from the 'shame trap'; or make it seem like being fully honest would be somehow petty or unnecessary or unwarranted (things along those lines).

What you listed as "deterrents to exposure" are, of course, valid. But then that needs to be offset by another list, under heading of "rewards and benefits of finally and permanently freeing myself from this 'trap of shame' in which I'm stuck."

 

I get that there's also a risk of coming under criticism, judgment, condemnation from all sorts of other people, once you do decide to free yourself. (The word "humility" comes to mind, but I'm not sure in which sentence/context it belongs.) Again, though, it is temporarily facing/enduring these types of things (from ignorant others whose opinions ought not count, anyway) in order to gain ultimate victory and your permanent emotional freedom.

 

Easier said than done, I know. It is a big decision; take your time with it.

Hugs, and best.

[jnel921]

I posted something similar last year where I confessed feeling some shame and not wanting to go to one of my H's job events. His A was kept between us. But since his A was with a co-workers Girlfriend everyone knew the dirty details and of course it made me feel some kind of way.

 

It takes time to get to that place where you won't feel that way. This will only happen if your H can make you fall in love again and convince you that it will only be you.

 

It sounds like he has crossed many boundaries. If your trust cannot be fully given you may want to consider spending whatever life you have left...alone and finally happy. It's not that bad.

 

Good Luck.

[flowergirl14]

Pride. It’s hard to admit to yourself and the world that you ****ed up something as important as choosing a life partner. Being cheated on is humiliating. It’s natural to want to control the outcome, and put lipstick on that pig and reconcile. Either you don’t tell anyone (and suffer alone or on online forums or in your therapists office), or you tell people and spend the rest of your marriage either avoiding everyone who hates your cheating spouse or convincing them that your Marriage Is Stronger For It.

 

Remember — infidelity is not your failure to own. Do not borrow shame. It takes a lot of strength and character to navigate this ****. If you loved a lousy partner, okay, so what? You’re human. You picked from the barbed wire monkey pile. Explore that, fix it, and choose better next time. ThPride. It’s hard to admit to yourself and the world that you ****ed up something as important as choosing a life partner. Being cheated on is humiliating. It’s natural to want to control the outcome, and put lipstick on that pig and reconcile. Either you don’t tell anyone (and suffer alone or on online forums or in your therapists office), or you tell people and spend the rest of your marriage either avoiding everyone who hates your cheating spouse or convincing them that your Marriage Is Stronger For It.

 

Remember — infidelity is not your failure to own. Do not borrow shame. It takes a lot of strength and character to navigate this ****. If you loved a lousy partner, okay, so what? You’re human. You picked from the barbed wire monkey pile. Explore that, fix it, and choose better next time.

This comes straight from chumplady.com This seems like very sound advice and I was just reading it today. Hope this helps on your journey!

[flowergirl14]

Oops I think I copied that twice. Sorry!

[lgspot]

merrmeade,

I'll just comment on exposure for now.

After reading your posts for quite awhile and having gained a bit of insight into your compassion for people with respect to another situation---I am on the side of NOT exposing further.

You have chosen R and I believe exposure in your circumstance would be counterproductive during R.

I feel if you take the issue of exposure off the table, it will free you and him to concentrate on your growing family and personal recovery. There are so many, many issues to R, the less time and aggravation dealing with exposure and gossip, the better. Not all cases, but for you now.

 

I didn't really have to battle the exposure question. My ex outed herself to EVERYBODY. She messed up so bad, really wasn't much else for her to do considering she was dealing with infidelity, recovery, and an honesty program.

Plus trying to get me back (even though that was not an option).

 

You know he f'ed up. He knows he f'ed up. Perhaps now that is enough.

Sometimes it's just best to let old dogs sleep....

Blessings

[velvette]

like most people, after 5 affairs- two with family... one being your SIL -i too am dumbfounded as to why you want to stay with such a POS[pardon my "french," but that's what he seems to be.].

 

 

may this be your basis for feeling shame? sticking by such a man who was/is capable of such abhorrent behavior.

 

 

can you elaborate on who knows about that "one" incident that you have exposed. do the spouses/SO of these family friends know? this is an EXTREME form of cheating behavior by your husband. i wonder if the lack of exposure on your part contributed to his continued infidelity- you know... NO CONSEQUENCES.

 

 

I'm sure you mean well. But, do you think that decades ago everyone was online reading about take step 1, 2, 3 to resolve infidelity in your marriage?

 

 

IMO, we are all doing the best we can at any given time given the resources we have to work with. You don't know what you don't know.

 

 

This is not really helpful except as it applies to the present.

 

 

Merrmeade is not responsible for her H serial cheating.

[Mr. Lucky]

I've told no one but her. She invited me to think - just think - about sharing it.

 

I would gently ask - to what purpose?

 

Sounds like the immediate family already knows about his infidelity, but not the depth or extent.

 

Would the goal of sharing be making your exit from the marriage easier? The only person who needs to assess his suitability as a partner already has all the information she needs to make a decision.

 

My emotional energy would be invested in making a new life, not rehashing this one. Just trying to understand your end game...

 

Mr. Lucky

[velvette]

Pride. It’s hard to admit to yourself and the world that you ****ed up something as important as choosing a life partner. Being cheated on is humiliating. It’s natural to want to control the outcome, and put lipstick on that pig and reconcile. Either you don’t tell anyone (and suffer alone or on online forums or in your therapists office), or you tell people and spend the rest of your marriage either avoiding everyone who hates your cheating spouse or convincing them that your Marriage Is Stronger For It.

 

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. That's for her to decide.

 

 

My H is a serial cheater. Some 20 plus trysts between the first and last affair I discovered. The ones in between I knew nothing about until I discovered the last.

 

 

I fell in love with my H and chose him as a life partner based on the best parts of him which are many. I failed to see that the some of the red flags he displayed were due to the fact h was raped as a child.

 

 

So shoot me. I have no shame for that. Even if I had paid more attention to the red flags I had nothing in my repertoire that would have enabled me as a young woman to recognize the severe wound my H would have carried to his grave if he could have. Even as a mature adult, I couldn't have known unless I was an expert on such matters.

 

 

I only understood when he gave up the secret he couldn't carry any longer.

 

 

Many good people are wounded in ways that cause them to wound others.

 

 

Its not right. Its not fair. But, the only people who should be carrying shame are the people who caused these wounds.

[Artie Lang]

look, i'm not trying to make her feel bad, God knows she's been through enough. my point was that his constant infidelity and her sticking by his side might be the basis for her feeling "shame." at least that's what i gathered. i don't know in what order the exposure came in regards to the one incident where he was "outed," but if he was not exposed from the get-go, that might have led to more cheating behavior.

 

i went back and read a bit of her prior threads(actually skimmed), and it's not a good situation. clearly, Mermeade has suffered through a most traumatic event(s). she stated that she was diagnosed with PTSD, after the fact. this guy is not your average cheater... he's a serial cheater.

 

as to my colorful reference to him, i stand by it. what kind of person keeps on consistantly hurting and betraying someone like that? only a soulless POS does that. look at what this guy did to her. that STD thing- TWICE -alone set me off... who deserves that?

 

 

i don't know what exposure will do this far out. if she's planning on sticking around, i don't think it really even matters at this point... well, maybe for her it does. it unburdens her from keeping this a secret any longer. obviously, it bothers her enough to come on this board and ponder it, right?

Edited May 29, 2015 by Artie Lang