BS shame / Revelation terror

[AlwaysGrowing]

If you do not have any plans to divorce...have you considered asking your IC ways in which you can seperate from your marriage. Try to find ways/places that you do/will have control...that only involve you.

 

Maybe, if you start working on you and you alone...you might find that you quite enjoy the company/atmosphere there. It also might serve as your jumping off point...once you have solid foundation, confidence in yourself.

[anna121]

If you do not have any plans to divorce...have you considered asking your IC ways in which you can seperate from your marriage. Try to find ways/places that you do/will have control...that only involve you.

 

Maybe, if you start working on you and you alone...you might find that you quite enjoy the company/atmosphere there. It also might serve as your jumping off point...once you have solid foundation, confidence in yourself.

 

This is a great suggestion. The choice is not nearly so stark as "divorce/no divorce".

 

How about just separating from him whenever and in whichever ways you can? No one else even has to know.

[merrmeade]

Maybe, if you start working on you and you alone...you might find that you quite enjoy the company/atmosphere there

I would love to get back to that and, in fact, it would not be new. That was actually the problem. I was living abroad for months at a time when the last affair happened. I can't afford to go as often or stay as long but I love being alone.

This is a great suggestion. The choice is not nearly so stark as "divorce/no divorce".

 

How about just separating from him whenever and in whichever ways you can? No one else even has to know.

Yes, I'd like to get a job out of the house. We both work at home and it's not fun or healthy.

[BetrayedH]

What's the point of talking, understanding and still I WILL BE HERE TOMORROW?

 

I'm not divorcing any time soon if ever. So moving on....

 

This leaves me shaking my head. All signs point to your husband never being fixed, forced to IC or not. And yet, divorce isn't even on the table. Why is that? I think I'd have to agree with your therapist that you feel trapped. Why?

[merrmeade]

This leaves me shaking my head. All signs point to your husband never being fixed, forced to IC or not. And yet, divorce isn't even on the table. Why is that? I think I'd have to agree with your therapist that you feel trapped. Why?

Grrrr, bh. You imply those two 'whys' are the same. They are not. They may be, but I cannot embrace the first as the only solution to the second. Not yet. But I never said it wasn't on the table. Who initiated the conversation do you think? Call it 'trapped,' call it 'spinning my wheels' or 'losing ground,' I brought it up. She named it 'trapped.' I brought up the 'deterrents to exposure and that I'd been trying to visualize myself without H. He's been gone a couple of weeks, and I like it. A lot.

 

Generally when I try to look more closely at that 'why,' I see it sitting in empty space that I cannot make out clearly. No matter how hard I try, the space will not come into focus.

 

When it all comes down, I don't want to give up the trappings of the present.

[66Charger]

I look at this whole Catch 22 - what I just said - and all your incredibly sharp insightful posts and think: Am I wasting everyone's time? I've just come full circle back where I started. Same position. Same leftovers. Same gross choices. What's the point of talking, understanding and still I WILL BE HERE TOMORROW?

 

I'm not divorcing any time soon if ever. So moving on....

 

You did say divorce is off the table

 

When I started reading LS, I read a lot of your post. You advice to others gave you the appearance of strength. You helped people. By those post I thought you were way past DDay and had healed. This thread surprised me until I read your other threads. You help others but you can't help yourself. You would never council someone else to stay in a situation like yours.

 

The shame you have

 

Is that you Merrmeade are a doormat.

Edited June 2, 2015 by 66Charger

[BetrayedH]

Grrrr, bh. You imply those two 'whys' are the same. They are not. They may be, but I cannot embrace the first as the only solution to the second. Not yet. But I never said it wasn't on the table. Who initiated the conversation do you think? Call it 'trapped,' call it 'spinning my wheels' or 'losing ground,' I brought it up. She named it 'trapped.' I brought up the 'deterrents to exposure and that I'd been trying to visualize myself without H. He's been gone a couple of weeks, and I like it. A lot.

 

Generally when I try to look more closely at that 'why,' I see it sitting in empty space that I cannot make out clearly. No matter how hard I try, the space will not come into focus.

 

When it all comes down, I don't want to give up the trappings of the present.

 

I think that last sentence is key. I do believe that for some people, there are 'other' reasons to stay. I can understand a thought process that says that even in the long run, it may be better to tolerate the situation than to upset the whole apple cart. Drifter makes a compelling case when it comes to the potential loss of his grandchild if he were to divorce. I get that.

 

If that's the case with you, then perhaps it is a matter of real detachment from your H. Live like roommates. Grow indifferent to what's going on with him.

 

Are we on the right track here? Are there so many (non-emotional) disadvantages to leaving that it merits staying? Or is this really an issue where you are mentally stuck/paralyzed/in limbo?

 

It's has been a long time, merrmeade. And you keep coming back to it. I have tried not to be in the "just divorce" camp. I am trying to understand what keeps you there. With his lack of introspection and true remorse, I'd normally advise you to leave. If you think there's a legit exception, help me understand the case for that and perhaps we can help you feel more secure in that decision.

[merrmeade]

Originally Posted by merrmeade

What's the point of talking, understanding and still I WILL BE HERE TOMORROW? I'm not divorcing any time soon if ever.

You did say divorce is off the table

Well, to be politely argumentative here, Charger, "any time soon" is not 'never.'

 

Originally Posted by 66Charger

When I started reading LS, I read a lot of your post. You advice to others gave you the appearance of strength. You helped people. By those post I thought you were way past DDay and had healed. This thread surprised me until I read your other threads. You help others but you can't help yourself. You would never council someone else to stay in a situation like yours.

 

The shame you have

 

Is that you Merrmeade are a doormat.

Well, I have to give you the same begrudging confirmation as bh that, yes, I'm living and speaking a few contradictions here. In the early days on LS, starting a thread was really asking for clarity, guidance and support. Nowadays, it's more like clairvoyance, optional maps and loving challenges, please. Not unlike yours.

 

I do feel embarrassed for my ambivalence and mixed messages, apologetic that kind people take me seriously and are unfairly confused about the holes in my position. I'm not confused. I do know they are holes, illogical and inconsistent with my ability to articulate reality for others. I sort of hope to be found out but resist and deflect detection. Must be my H, rubbing off on me.

 

Am I apologizing for being a 'doormat'? Yes.

[merrmeade]

When it all comes down, I don't want to give up the trappings of the present.

I think that last sentence is key. I do believe that for some people, there are 'other' reasons to stay. I can understand a thought process that says that even in the long run, it may be better to tolerate the situation than to upset the whole apple cart. Drifter makes a compelling case when it comes to the potential loss of his grandchild if he were to divorce. I get that.

 

If that's the case with you, then perhaps it is a matter of real detachment from your H. Live like roommates. Grow indifferent to what's going on with him.

 

Are we on the right track here? Are there so many (non-emotional) disadvantages to leaving that it merits staying? Or is this really an issue where you are mentally stuck/paralyzed/in limbo?

 

It's has been a long time, merrmeade. And you keep coming back to it. I have tried not to be in the "just divorce" camp. I am trying to understand what keeps you there. With his lack of introspection and true remorse, I'd normally advise you to leave. If you think there's a legit exception, help me understand the case for that and perhaps we can help you feel more secure in that decision.

I don't "think there's a legit exception," bh. I don't think that what I'm doing can be legitimized or that you really think I should. I think that I've been given every possible insight from a broad range of relevant experiences that I have a right to ask for. I think that I need to read and reread those.

 

In the end, my loving LS friends are like the few other people I realize have been disgusted by my 'settling' for this situation and this person. I desperately need your concern. Also your patience. I'll probably disappoint your hopes and expectations for me today but hope you'll still answer the door tomorrow if I knock again, however tentatively.

 

There's no "decision," bh, just status quo as I slowly read and reread, think and live. I'll be back.

[BetrayedH]

Well, to be politely argumentative here, Charger, "any time soon" is not 'never.'

 

Well, I have to give you the same begrudging confirmation as bh that, yes, I'm living and speaking a few contradictions here. In the early days on LS, starting a thread was really asking for clarity, guidance and support. Nowadays, it's more like clairvoyance, optional maps and loving challenges, please. Not unlike yours.

 

I do feel embarrassed for my ambivalence and mixed messages, apologetic that kind people take me seriously and are unfairly confused about the holes in my position. I'm not confused. I do know they are holes, illogical and inconsistent with my ability to articulate reality for others. I sort of hope to be found out but resist and deflect detection. Must be my H, rubbing off on me.

 

Am I apologizing for being a 'doormat'? Yes.

 

For what it's worth, I don't think of you as a doormat. I think you are legitimately wrestling with what to do. And this isn't a small decision - it's a life-altering one.

 

I do believe that there are "holes" in any argument you might make about staying that relate to your husband. If I were to make a list of things that indicate true remorse, I'm not sure he'd get a check on any of them. Thus, I don't think it's healthy for you to reconcile with him.

 

But something is keeping you there.

 

As suggested by another posted, it could be fear. If that's the case, I would really recommend looking very closely at those fears and I think you'll find that they're not that scary after all. You CAN leave and have a perfectly good life. It's daunting, to be sure, but it can most certainly happen.

 

Otherwise, I'd suggest (as I did in the other post) that you have other tangible benefits to staying - probably related to family.

 

Maybe it's both. And maybe it's acceptable to stay but also not reconcile with your husband. But I'd really look at what is keeping you there. I don't think your marriage should be a motivation but perhaps there's something else.

[Noirek]

Everybody here sees ny husband as a doormat, because he hasn't divorced me. But I don't see it. I see him as a man who loves me and our family very much and is willing to navigate this with me. Yes, I am sure he could find someone new but as he says, he doesn't want to, he wants me. We argue and resolve differences. I'm not always right and I don't always get my way. Simply put, I cannot, even if I wanted to, walk all over him. I hesitate to write about him because I really do hate people's scathing judgements of him with sexists terms like cuckhold and insults like doormat. I cringe when I see someone say you our a doormat.

 

We are so hell bent on labeling things and judgeing other people's situations. I am not in your marriage nor you in mine. I know that posting here is only a small portion of our daily life. A day that can be full of so many other, good things. And of course the things that make us wonder what we are even doing.

 

If you right now are where you want to be. Stop worrying about being a doormat or what other people think. Easier said than done? Of course. But at the end of the day you know if you are being pushed around in all areas of your life... Or if it is just this one dark cloud on a rather nice day.

 

I apologize if this makes little to no sense. I'm on shift work and just off nights. I may make more sense in my own head.

[merrmeade]

For what it's worth, I don't think of you as a doormat. I think you are legitimately wrestling with what to do. And this isn't a small decision - it's a life-altering one.

 

I do believe that there are "holes" in any argument you might make about staying that relate to your husband. If I were to make a list of things that indicate true remorse, I'm not sure he'd get a check on any of them. Thus, I don't think it's healthy for you to reconcile with him.

 

But something is keeping you there.

 

As suggested by another posted, it could be fear. If that's the case, I would really recommend looking very closely at those fears and I think you'll find that they're not that scary after all. You CAN leave and have a perfectly good life. It's daunting, to be sure, but it can most certainly happen.

 

Otherwise, I'd suggest (as I did in the other post) that you have other tangible benefits to staying - probably related to family.

 

Maybe it's both. And maybe it's acceptable to stay but also not reconcile with your husband. But I'd really look at what is keeping you there. I don't think your marriage should be a motivation but perhaps there's something else.

Fair enough, bh, fair enough.

[merrmeade]

Everybody here sees ny husband as a doormat, because he hasn't divorced me. But I don't see it. I see him as a man who loves me and our family very much and is willing to navigate this with me. Yes, I am sure he could find someone new but as he says, he doesn't want to, he wants me. We argue and resolve differences. I'm not always right and I don't always get my way. Simply put, I cannot, even if I wanted to, walk all over him. I hesitate to write about him because I really do hate people's scathing judgements of him with sexists terms like cuckhold and insults like doormat. I cringe when I see someone say you our a doormat.

 

We are so hell bent on labeling things and judgeing other people's situations. I am not in your marriage nor you in mine. I know that posting here is only a small portion of our daily life. A day that can be full of so many other, good things. And of course the things that make us wonder what we are even doing.

 

If you right now are where you want to be. Stop worrying about being a doormat or what other people think. Easier said than done? Of course. But at the end of the day you know if you are being pushed around in all areas of your life... Or if it is just this one dark cloud on a rather nice day.

 

I apologize if this makes little to no sense. I'm on shift work and just off nights. I may make more sense in my own head.

Noirek, you make sense to me, and I make a little sense to you it seems. thank you.

[Noirek]

Noirek, you make sense to me, and I make a little sense to you it seems. thank you.

 

I read this "and I make lite sense to you it seems." And was like "huh?" I must be way off... And then I reread it... And now I think I really must sleep.

[merrmeade]

I read this "and I make lite sense to you it seems." And was like "huh?" I must be way off... And then I reread it... And now I think I really must sleep.

You, Noirek? LITE sense? Never. My children are here. Daughter with boyfriend. I love them, want to feed them and make them happy. Hence, my abbreviated answer. I am grateful for you, Noirek, and the comparison you made and how you see me and your husband. It resonates accurately. I needed the validation though I also doubt myself and hold myself to contradictory standards - as do you. Now, back to my children.

[66Charger]

There are SOME people here, who by their actions, maintain dignity and honor. Merrmeade, If I have offended you in any way. I do apologise.

 

Perhaps I should tone it down. Be more comforting and supportive to all. Provide pillows and tissues.

 

Sorry, No, I do drive a 66 Charger.

Edited June 2, 2015 by 66Charger

[merrmeade]

There are SOME people here, who by their actions, maintain dignity and honor. Merrmeade, If I have offended you in any way. I do apologise.

 

Perhaps I should tone it down. Be more comforting and supportive to all. Provide pillows and tissues.

 

Sorry, No, I do drive a 66 Charger.

no offense and far from it! More glad you assume my standards (that is - you assume I should do better).

Noirek explAins some aspects tenderly which speak to me. I want to hope they - she and my H - will get better. They need us.

 

(I've come back an hour later hoping I can still edit. Should not have tried to post while at the dentist.)

 

I was trying to say - I took your post seriously and yet am still caught between two seeming contradictions. Perhaps I was glib. I need to post later when I can concentrate.

Edited June 2, 2015 by merrmeade
unclear

[66Charger]

Perhaps because of your title and because I am a surfer, I have formed a visual of you.

 

A true innocent Mermaid swimming in a ocean of beauty and peace. All of a sudden caught in a web of the cruel fisherman Ahab. He doesnt fish for food, he hunts Mermaids. You are gasping for water, struggling against the net, desperate to get back to the peace and tranquility of the ocean. He is holding you, cackling you cant go, you belong to me, you may die out of the water but while you live, you are mine.

 

I have no words of wisdom for you, but thats how I see you. I am not in your world so I cannot cut the net. I know you wish that he would jump in and become a Merman and explore the ocean with you peacefully forever.

 

Unfortunately, he is who he is and doesnt appear to know how to swim.

 

Probably a little overly dramatic.

[Brigit]

Perhaps because of your title and because I am a surfer, I have formed a visual of you.

 

A true innocent Mermaid swimming in a ocean of beauty and peace. All of a sudden caught in a web of the cruel fisherman Ahab. He doesnt fish for food, he hunts Mermaids. You are gasping for water, struggling against the net, desperate to get back to the peace and tranquility of the ocean. He is holding you, cackling you cant go, you belong to me, you may die out of the water but while you live, you are mine.

 

I have no words of wisdom for you, but thats how I see you. I am not in your world so I cannot cut the net. I know you wish that he would jump in and become a Merman and explore the ocean with you peacefully forever.

 

Unfortunately, he is who he is and doesnt appear to know how to swim.

 

Probably a little overly dramatic.

 

Very poetic.

[merrmeade]

Perhaps because of your title and because I am a surfer, I have formed a visual of you.

 

A true innocent Mermaid swimming in a ocean of beauty and peace. All of a sudden caught in a web of the cruel fisherman Ahab. He doesnt fish for food, he hunts Mermaids. You are gasping for water, struggling against the net, desperate to get back to the peace and tranquility of the ocean. He is holding you, cackling you cant go, you belong to me, you may die out of the water but while you live, you are mine.

 

I have no words of wisdom for you, but thats how I see you. I am not in your world so I cannot cut the net. I know you wish that he would jump in and become a Merman and explore the ocean with you peacefully forever.

 

Unfortunately, he is who he is and doesnt appear to know how to swim.

 

Probably a little overly dramatic.

I am not sure I recognize this particular Ahab in my real life story but love being cast as a true, innocent mermaid, trapped in an ocean of peace, tranquility and beauty.

 

I think I'd like role of the true, innocent white whale, far more powerful than Ahab, who takes him down in the end...

 

Actually I mistyped Merrymeade when signing up for LS but left it as 'merrmeade' for more anonymity. Another poster created the 'mermaid' image earlier this year.

 

I used this thread as a way of exploring issues brought up in IC 2 wks ago. Also my H has been gone almost that long, and my daughter visited, both of which made me happy and obscured my marriage issues.

 

The other thing that happens for me with a thread like this is that, by the end, I'm ready to get back to the mundane but real present, especially improving my own quality of life and helping my kids. They are the main reason I'm still here after all. It's my ocean.

 

Today is IC day (every other wk). I'm going to send the therapist the link to this thread though she probably won't have time to read it until later. If there's an update after, I'll post. Otherwise, I'll be swimming the seas.

Edited June 3, 2015 by merrmeade

[66Charger]

Merrmeade, you post to a lot of other threads trying to help. I have been posting to a thread on the seperation and divorce section. (Marie at 6 months). Could some good people on here stop by there? She doesnt seem to be getting any advice other than waywards and mine. Dont mean to thread jack but you have a lot of good freinds and I dont want to be wrong in what I write. I think there is a decent shot there.

[merrmeade]

Merrmeade, you post to a lot of other threads trying to help. I have been posting to a thread on the seperation and divorce section. (Marie at 6 months). Could some good people on here stop by there? She doesnt seem to be getting any advice other than waywards and mine. Dont mean to thread jack but you have a lot of good freinds and I dont want to be wrong in what I write. I think there is a decent shot there.

Will try but I'm probably cutting my time on LS down. H is back, read LS while gone, was ready for some direct talk - good so far but a long ways to go.

 

Short answer: I'll try, charger, but I'm working on my own things right now.