sandylee1 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 It depends. Who is paying for her school? How much debt did each bring to the marriage and how much debt has been accumulated since the marriage? If these were too young twenty something with no prior assets or debt, I could understand why she would be mad and yes, it would be extremely controlling behavior on the husband's part. But that is not case. She has been working on her Master degree rather than working full time. She benefits from that if she doesn't have a significant amount of student loans. She could have said no to working for his business but didn't. He would have to be paying the bulk of the mortgage, bills and expenses while she completes her degree. Would she have been able to afford to do that if she was not married to him? I don't know. His whole sneakiness in bringing the prenup 2 weeks before the wedding and having me waive all rights as a spouse , would really make me uncomfortable to say the least. I understand one needs to protect themselves from goldiggers, but waiving all rights is extreme and I don't believe any judge would find that fair. In all honesty, the lack of trust and failing to honour his agreement regarding the house would make me want to leave this marriage with nothing right now. Well as soon as the masters was done and I had a job. I would feel extremely hesitant to place all my trust in my husband with such actions. Just the very wording of 'waiving rights as a spouse ' sounds like a business arrangement and not love. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
nittygritty Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 His whole sneakiness in bringing the prenup 2 weeks before the wedding and having me waive all rights as a spouse , would really make me uncomfortable to say the least. I understand one needs to protect themselves from goldiggers, but waiving all rights is extreme and I don't believe any judge would find that fair. In all honesty, the lack of trust and failing to honour his agreement regarding the house would make me want to leave this marriage with nothing right now. Well as soon as the masters was done and I had a job. I would feel extremely hesitant to place all my trust in my husband with such actions. Just the very wording of 'waiving rights as a spouse ' sounds like a business arrangement and not love. Was she sneaky about bringing a bunch of debt to the marriage? Did she disclose when he asked her to marry him that her first husband didn't pay the IRS for years during her previous marriage and that he or they owed a lot of money? Did he marry her knowing that and try to protect himself financially from her debt? I think most people would try to protect themselves financially if they married someone that had a whole bunch of debt. Link to post Share on other sites
loveweary11 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Wow. All this thread says to me is, "don't get married again." I'd need a pretty tight prenup to protect my assets. Might as well stick with the cohabitation trend. Link to post Share on other sites
Lois_Griffin Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Was she sneaky about bringing a bunch of debt to the marriage? Did she disclose when he asked her to marry him that her first husband didn't pay the IRS for years during her previous marriage and that he or they owed a lot of money? Did he marry her knowing that and try to protect himself financially from her debt? I think most people would try to protect themselves financially if they married someone that had a whole bunch of debt. Oh for god's sakes. When I married my 2nd husband, he owed the IRS thousands of dollars due to poor choices in his past. Over the years, the interest and penalties had accumulated and the grand total was $57,000. Spouses don't become responsible for PAST IRS debts. Furthermore, there are ways to file taxes either separately or together where your portion of the return isn't seized by the IRS. I spoke to the IRS myself and questioned whether I should file separately and they told me the ONLY debt I could possibly be responsible for is the YEAR(s) that I actually filed with him if we ended up owing for that particular year. I was never, EVER held accountable for his past IRS debt. The OP's husband just sounds like a selfish douche canoe who wants his wife to help him pay for HIS house without any financial BENEFIT to her at ALL. He's a selfish, sneaky, manipulative ass and nothing more. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 The OP's husband just sounds like a selfish douche canoe who wants his wife to help him pay for HIS house without any financial BENEFIT to her at ALL. He's a selfish, sneaky, manipulative ass and nothing more. I guess that just about sums it up. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
nittygritty Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Oh for god's sakes. When I married my 2nd husband, he owed the IRS thousands of dollars due to poor choices in his past. Over the years, the interest and penalties had accumulated and the grand total was $57,000. Spouses don't become responsible for PAST IRS debts. Furthermore, there are ways to file taxes either separately or together where your portion of the return isn't seized by the IRS. I spoke to the IRS myself and questioned whether I should file separately and they told me the ONLY debt I could possibly be responsible for is the YEAR(s) that I actually filed with him if we ended up owing for that particular year. I was never, EVER held accountable for his past IRS debt. The OP's husband just sounds like a selfish douche canoe who wants his wife to help him pay for HIS house without any financial BENEFIT to her at ALL. He's a selfish, sneaky, manipulative ass and nothing more. I get that but she also may have student loans, credit card debt etc. I'm sorry but if she came into the marriage without a pot to piss in and brought a mountain of debt with her, why should he put her name on the title of the house when she is not on or capable of being on the mortgage??? She chose to pursue a Masters degree rather than work full time. She chose to work for him without a paycheck. He has to be paying for the mortgage, bills and expenses. She's got a sweet deal to have somebody support her while she goes to school. She probably wouldn't be able to have done that had she not married somebody with the expectation for them to financially support her and provide her a place to live and pay the bills while she goes to school. Obviously he doesn't want to give her half of everything he owns. Perhaps he is trying to protect his assets from her creditors? It doesn't sound like she has a good history of managing her finances if she didn't even know that her first husband wasn't paying the bills or taxes. She's acting like a victim rather than taking responsibility for her actions. Her current husband likely doesn't trust her or think the marriage is going to work out. On his end I could see why but on her end I don't. She was likely heaped in debt and has heaped on some more. Link to post Share on other sites
nittygritty Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 If the situation was reversed and she had bought the house before marriage and she was the only one on the mortgage and she was the only one paying the mortgage and all of the bills and She was the one who had financially supported him during the entire marriage while he went to school and he had brought a significant amount of debt to the marriage, I think people would be advising her not to put his name on the title. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Obviously he doesn't want to give her half of everything he owns. Perhaps he is trying to protect his assets from her creditors? It doesn't sound like she has a good history of managing her finances if she didn't even know that her first husband wasn't paying the bills or taxes. She's acting like a victim rather than taking responsibility for her actions. Her current husband likely doesn't trust her or think the marriage is going to work out. On his end I could see why but on her end I don't. She was likely heaped in debt and has heaped on some more. Yes all valid concerns, but the OP is not some ONS or mistress, or fly by night lover. He made her his WIFE and "promised" that he would put her on the title of the house, and has said he will do exactly that so many times but fails to live up to his promises. That is why he is getting flak here. The ins and outs of assets are always going to be an issue and any man or woman going into a relationship needs to be wary and protect themselves, yes of course, but promising to do something major and then reneging on that promise is never good in a relationship. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
nittygritty Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yes all valid concerns, but the OP is not some ONS or mistress, or fly by night lover. He made her his WIFE and "promised" that he would put her on the title of the house, and has said he will do exactly that so many times but fails to live up to his promises. That is why he is getting flak here. The ins and outs of assets are always going to be an issue and any man or woman going into a relationship needs to be wary and protect themselves, yes of course, but promising to do something major and then reneging on that promise is never good in a relationship. True but did she live up to her end of the bargain? Did she fully disclose all of the debt she was bringing into the marriage? Is it in the pre-nup that he is to fully financially support her and pay all of the bills while she goes to college? Does he pay for her college? There are too many unknowns. Perhaps the OP will explain the situation better. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Babs22 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 These are all good questions. He did seem to support her while she has finished her Master's degree. She did not need to work outside the home and he may be providing 100% for her and her children. Did she come to the marriage with debt? I hope she comes back to answer these questions. Also, the prenup says she waves all rights to waive all rights as a spouse in the event of a Divorce. She mentioned a will that divided up his property equally between her and his siblings and their children if he dies. So she will get something if he dies. If she divorces him, she won't be able to take what was his before the marriage. Perhaps this man is very wealthy and perhaps part of his wealth was inherited and each sibling received a portion. Perhaps he feels that if he dies, a bulk of his inherited money should go to his siblings because it was "family" money. I don't know. Other than this money issue, are there troubles in your marriage, or are you happy together? If he has been financially supportive of you going to school and of your children, then it looks like this has worked out well for you so far. If you don't get any of his previous wealth after a divorce, then I hope you do feel happy in your marriage and don't need to get a Divorce. When you get your masters, get a job and a savings account for you. Save as much as you make as you can. Let him continue to pay the bills. You will have financial security in no time. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
WasOtherWoman Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I know that we are all just speculating here, since we have not had clarification from the OP yet, but IF there is IRS debt and she has some responsibility for it, putting her name on that house makes it half fair game for the IRS. Absolutely her current spouse will not be tagged with the debt, but the IRS is merciless when it comes to collecting their debt. IF she is tagged with that debt, anything that her name is on becomes partially fair game for the IRS, including garnishment of her wages, should she earn any. Will be interesting to hear the OP's response because IF there is prior IRS debt, that would explain a lot of how the current husband is acting. Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I know that we are all just speculating here, since we have not had clarification from the OP yet, but IF there is IRS debt and she has some responsibility for it, putting her name on that house makes it half fair game for the IRS. Absolutely her current spouse will not be tagged with the debt, but the IRS is merciless when it comes to collecting their debt. IF she is tagged with that debt, anything that her name is on becomes partially fair game for the IRS, including garnishment of her wages, should she earn any. Will be interesting to hear the OP's response because IF there is prior IRS debt, that would explain a lot of how the current husband is acting. Debt or no debt it was still very sneaky pulling that prenup so close to the wedding. I mean 'waiving your rights as a spouse' . I'm not a fan of long term cohabitating, but maybe it would have been better in this case. Then the OP would know where she stands. If you're not going to get the full benefits of marriage and be asked to waive your rights, then why bother ? Just my opinion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 I did not owe IRS. My ex committed fraud and he was liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars and I was awarded Innocent Spouse. I paid for my own schooling until a year and half ago. My husband pays for my education. I feel that my contribution to working for him pays for tuition and then some. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 I had zero debt going in the marriage and had cash to pay for my education and to support myself and my children. My husband knew about the Innocent Spouse case I was in (and was paying for myself). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Clay Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Have you talked to him more about it? Clay Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 I get that but she also may have student loans, credit card debt etc. I'm sorry but if she came into the marriage without a pot to piss in and brought a mountain of debt with her, why should he put her name on the title of the house when she is not on or capable of being on the mortgage??? She chose to pursue a Masters degree rather than work full time. She chose to work for him without a paycheck. He has to be paying for the mortgage, bills and expenses. She's got a sweet deal to have somebody support her while she goes to school. She probably wouldn't be able to have done that had she not married somebody with the expectation for them to financially support her and provide her a place to live and pay the bills while she goes to school. I have zero debt and had zero debt when I entered this marriage. I had a nice savings account. I am in school full time and work for and grow my husbands business. I believe we together (my husband and I) have a sweet deal in regard to contributing to the family unit. Before we got married, I was also in school full time and working. I did not need to be financially supported. I am retooling to increase my earnings. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 If the situation was reversed and she had bought the house before marriage and she was the only one on the mortgage and she was the only one paying the mortgage and all of the bills and She was the one who had financially supported him during the entire marriage while he went to school and he had brought a significant amount of debt to the marriage, I think people would be advising her not to put his name on the title. If you read the entire posts from the beginning, you will better understand this situation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 True but did she live up to her end of the bargain? Did she fully disclose all of the debt she was bringing into the marriage? Is it in the pre-nup that he is to fully financially support her and pay all of the bills while she goes to college? Does he pay for her college? There are too many unknowns. Perhaps the OP will explain the situation better. Again, if you read the entire thread, you will find the answers to your questions. And yes, we did both disclose our financials and included them in the prenup. And again, there was no debt and he was not fully supporting me financially. Still today, he is not fully supporting me. If there are questions, just ask, I'll tell you. My main reason for starting this post was to find if others would agree with how I was feeling or if I was being unreasonable in my feelings about my husband not including my on the title of our home. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Also, the prenup says she waves all rights to waive all rights as a spouse in the event of a Divorce. She mentioned a will that divided up his property equally between her and his siblings and their children if he dies. So she will get something if he dies. If she divorces him, she won't be able to take what was his before the marriage. Actually I waive my all my spousal rights, period. Death and Divorce both. AND I just found out yesterday that my husband has not changed his will since we married 5 years ago. This means that all his assets as left to his siblings, nieces and nephews still. I was disappointed that he hasn't changed it since and it just added salt to the wound. It is his deal and I didn't say anything to him. What could I say? Edited June 10, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fix quote Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 If the situation was reversed and she had bought the house before marriage and she was the only one on the mortgage and she was the only one paying the mortgage and all of the bills and She was the one who had financially supported him during the entire marriage while he went to school and he had brought a significant amount of debt to the marriage, I think people would be advising her not to put his name on the title. Given our situation (in the thread) and my commitment to marriage, I would in a heartbeat put my husband on the title if this situation was reversed. BTW: my credit score is (and was when we married) 860. You keep referring to my debt... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 These are all good questions. He did seem to support her while she has finished her Master's degree. She did not need to work outside the home and he may be providing 100% for her and her children. Did she come to the marriage with debt? I hope she comes back to answer these questions. Also, the prenup says she waves all rights to waive all rights as a spouse in the event of a Divorce. She mentioned a will that divided up his property equally between her and his siblings and their children if he dies. So she will get something if he dies. If she divorces him, she won't be able to take what was his before the marriage. Perhaps this man is very wealthy and perhaps part of his wealth was inherited and each sibling received a portion. Perhaps he feels that if he dies, a bulk of his inherited money should go to his siblings because it was "family" money. I don't know. Other than this money issue, are there troubles in your marriage, or are you happy together? If he has been financially supportive of you going to school and of your children, then it looks like this has worked out well for you so far. If you don't get any of his previous wealth after a divorce, then I hope you do feel happy in your marriage and don't need to get a Divorce. When you get your masters, get a job and a savings account for you. Save as much as you make as you can. Let him continue to pay the bills. You will have financial security in no time. I don't want to make him out a a bad guy... he is absolutely not! He great. He is just very protective of his money. I love him so very much, my I'm beginning to have hurt feelings that he may not trust me as much as I trust him. We are happy together (other than my feelings just described). When I work, I will start to contribute to my IRA again and savings for the kids. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 I know that we are all just speculating here, since we have not had clarification from the OP yet, but IF there is IRS debt and she has some responsibility for it, putting her name on that house makes it half fair game for the IRS. Absolutely her current spouse will not be tagged with the debt, but the IRS is merciless when it comes to collecting their debt. IF she is tagged with that debt, anything that her name is on becomes partially fair game for the IRS, including garnishment of her wages, should she earn any. Will be interesting to hear the OP's response because IF there is prior IRS debt, that would explain a lot of how the current husband is acting. I was awarded Innocent Spouse, meaning I was relieved from my ex husband's IRS debt. The IRS issue has been resolved and I came into this marriage without debt. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Debt or no debt it was still very sneaky pulling that prenup so close to the wedding. I mean 'waiving your rights as a spouse' . I'm not a fan of long term cohabiting, but maybe it would have been better in this case. Then the OP would know where she stands. If you're not going to get the full benefits of marriage and be asked to waive your rights, then why bother ? Just my opinion. I've been thinking this same thing a lot the past couple weeks! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ElinK Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 What do I tell him or ask him Clay? We've had our last conversation several weeks ago. When we discussed it, he promised to make me joint tenant by end of last month. Hasn't happened. Found out last night that he hasn't changed his will since our marriage. I don't care about his money, it is the principle that makes me feel insignificant. Link to post Share on other sites
Clay Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Just be honest with him. Tell him your concerned about your future as well. Tell him he made a agreement with you and you want him to honor it. If he says he will hold him to a timeline. If he says he wont then you have your answer. I think on the money part is not about being selfish its about being a partner with someone. If he just plans on giving it all to the kids then what plans do you have for yourself when he dumps all the debt on to you if he should pass. I personally would not continue into a relationship unless they had a reason I actually agreed with for me not being treated as a equal partner. I would also tell him you just want to know the truth. If he doesn't plan on putting your name down on it then you need to start planning to take care of yourself. Its sad you even have to go through this. Clay 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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