Got dumped...

[contel3]

So yes I've read your thread:)

regarding your trust issues....of course you can't trust HER. She's unstable. You can't trust what she tells you. She can't even believe what she says herself. She might believe herself in the spur of the moment but three weeks later (or days depending how long her cycles are) she won't even remember she said it. Or wonder why she said something because now she thinks the oposite. I would cut contact you will drive yourself crazy if you try to analise her behaviour.

 

You should try to change those trust issues into something positive. Try to develop Antena for women of her kind! Generalising is not good but spotting red flags early on....there's nothing more precious than that!

[contel3]

GL, the reason I asked about a family history of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) is that BPDers (people having strong BPD traits) typically have the false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." They therefore tend to perceive every new lover as "The Rescuer," which might explain why your Ex believed you were going to turn her life around.

 

Her feeling of betrayal and her inability to trust you is another warning sign for BPD because BPDers have extreme trust issues. This problem usually does not appear at the beginning of the relationship because her infatuation over the new partner convinces her that he is her rescuer -- thus holding her fears of abandonment and engulfment at bay. Yet, as soon as her infatuation starts evaporating -- typically at 4 to 6 months into the R/S -- those fears return and she no longer will be able to trust the partner for any extended period.

 

Perhaps so. Yet, if her BPD traits are strong, the trauma likely would have occurred much earlier -- probably before age 5, at which time it would have stunted her emotional growth.

 

If she has strong narcissistic or sociopathic traits, you would be correct. If she has strong BPD traits, however, the strange behaviors you saw likely were not the result of manipulation but, rather, emotional instability. Generally, BPDers are not bad people. Their problem is not being bad but, instead, being unstable -- with the result that their perception of you will dramatically change every few weeks or months (or even several times a day). And their recollection of your past behaviors will dramatically change, which is why it will frequently seem that a BPDer is "rewriting history" in her own mind.

 

If you ever feel inclined to take her back as a GF instead of just a "hiking buddy," I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you've been dealing with. I also suggest you take a look at my list of BPD red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of these warning signs at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these red flags will NOT enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid repeating the painful experience -- i.e., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like the one you left (if she has strong BPD traits). Take care, GL.

 

Short question for you: if someone fits all the BDP red flags but 10 and 12 (instead blaming himself for everything)....does it mean the person is not BDP? Does someone have to fit all the criteria or is it just a combination of some of the red flags?

[Palmeiras]

The hardest part is that these are complicated by the fact she is a pathological liar. She claimed she's improved.

 

:lmao:

 

I'm sorry. Your situation is serious, but I couldn't let this go. Too good.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Palmeiras

[GammaLeonis]

:lmao:

 

I'm sorry. Your situation is serious, but I couldn't let this go. Too good.

 

She did keep things entertaining that's for sure. Lol

[Downtown]

Short question for you: if someone fits all the BDP red flags but 10 and 12 (instead blaming himself for everything)....does it mean the person is not BDP? Does someone have to fit all the criteria or is it just a combination of some of the red flags?

A combination, Contel. The APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) provides 9 traits for therapists to use in diagnosing BPD, with the stipulation that a client must strongly exhibit at least 5 of those 9 traits -- and that these traits are persistent over time. The 18 warning signs I listed are based on those 9 traits, generally providing two examples of each.

 

Please keep in mind, however, that you almost certainly will never know whether your exBF "has BPD" or "doesn't have BPD." One reason is that, although you are capable of spotting the warning signs, only a professional is capable of actually making a diagnosis. Another reason is that, when a professional does make such a diagnosis, he typically is loath to tell his client -- much less tell the client's GF -- the name of this disorder.

 

A third reason is that BPD is not really something that a person "has" or "does not have." Rather, it is a set of primitive ego defenses that every human being relies on heavily during early childhood and, to varying degrees, will continue to use throughout adulthood. At issue, then, is not whether your exBF exhibits the 9 BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

 

Instead, at issue is whether he exhibits most of them at such a strong and persistent level that it undermines his ability to sustain close LTRs. Currently, the APA's diagnostic manual offers a flawed, dichotomous (e.g., yes or no) methodology for answering that question. Part C of the manual, however, contains the new graduated methodology (e.g., normal, moderate, strong, severe) that the American psychiatric community is intending to move to as soon as they have more empirical support for it. They know they need to abandon the dichotomous approach but are hesitant to do so until they are confident the new graduated approach will be applied with consistent results throughout the country.

[GammaLeonis]

I don't even know if my ex just display BPD traits or plain psychotic...

 

She went from telling me to move on with my life and hope I find someone wonderful and eventually marry down the road in months time to she wants to get it on with me after a kiss.

 

It's a mad, mad world! I think I'll stay away from dating for a while.

[Downtown]

I don't even know if my ex just display BPD traits or plain psychotic.

GL, well, anything is possible. But you're NOT describing behavior that is "plain psychotic." Psychosis occurs when a person has a distorted perception of physical reality, e.g., believing that the TV news announcer is speaking to her personally. In contrast, a person having strong BPD traits typically has a distorted perception of her partner's intentions and motivations.

 

Of course, every adult on the planet occasionally experiences these distorted perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations. This typically occurs every time you experience very intense feelings, e.g., when angry or infatuated. What sets the BPDers apart, then, is the much greater frequency and intensity of those distortions. BPDers differ from the rest of us only by degree because they experience the same set of basic human emotions and ego defenses that we all acquire in early childhood.

 

Moreover, the repeated cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back you are describing is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship. It typically occurs because the BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- lie on opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that, as you draw close to a BPDer during intimate moments, she will feel so engulfed and suffocated by the intimacy that she usually will start a fight over absolutely nothing -- thereby pushing you away.

 

Yet, as you back off to give her breathing room, you eventually will start triggering her abandonment fear -- causing her to begin love bombing or seducing you to pull you back into the relationship. Sadly, there is no midpoint -- between "too close" and "too far" -- where you can safely stand to avoid triggering those two fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years hunting for that Goldilocks position.

[GammaLeonis]

A special thanks to Downtown for pointing out the BPD traits.

 

The day after my last post, my ex came by my place and discussed about how she gave our relationship a serious thought and decided that we should try again.

 

I gave it a go. Things were great again until a few days ago. As we were hiking a trail, she suddenly had an emotional breakdown. She mentioned the whole how she's not the one for me and mentions yet another episode of sadistic abuse by her mother. She went on about how I was only tolerating her by going on hikes (something she loves to do) with her, which was a very hurtful statement. She emphasized on how she's an "independent" woman and relationships are not for her. This is paradoxical to her pursuit of intimacy.

 

I told her I was going to take her to a therapist, she resisted and lashed out verbally. Then, she just started crying like a little girl. And I mean like a little girl. I held her until she calmed down and that's when she wanted to breakup again.

 

So, I decided to take her home. At the end, she apologized and said she wanted to try to be better about her emotions. We parted that day.

 

Later, she texted saying she wanted to send me an email about what she thought of our relationship because she felt we couldn't communicate well face-to-face.

 

When I read the email, I noticed she was trying to pin the reasons for our relationship's failure on me by stating that:

 

1. I had disrespected her the whole time by trying to have sex with her, which is nonsense because she came to my place (this most recent instance) and started stripping after she kissed me.
    
   
2. That I had anger issues: as she alludes to this one time I yelled at a driver for changing lanes without signaling right in front of us).
    
   
3. And I caused turmoil in her mind by being argumentative and analytical. She gets annoyed when I point out the inconsistencies in her stories or question her thought process.
   

 

Of course, I sent a response back pointing out those inconsistencies. I was sharp, but not mean. She eventually apologized over text and said that I was right about her being the source of the problem in the relationship. She claims she has a lot to work on before she could date me again. I wholeheartedly agreed that we should separate.

 

I saved those texts just in case she might try something funny in the future (like accusing me of violence, rape, etc).

 

Of course, today, she was mentioning how she wanted to help me move and how I could borrow some of her camping gears for a trip with my friends this weekend. I turned her down nicely by letting her know I got things covered.

 

Unfortunately, she knows my new address, so I guess she just might not leave me alone for a while.

 

I contemplated about blocking her number, Facebook, etc. But, I'm not sure if there could be repercussions if I did something noticeable, so I will proceed carefully on that note.

 

In two short weeks, her issues are more apparent than ever. So for guys out there, beware of BPD women! It may be the sweetest hell, but that vampire will suck you dry.

Edited August 6, 2015 by GammaLeonis

[Downtown]

GL, thanks for giving us another update. You are wise in your decision to avoid any future contact with her. Among other problems, there is always a real risk that she will try to have you arrested for harming her.

[aloneinaz]

GL-

 

 

Having also experienced an ex GF in my past with strong BPD traits, I can tell you that you need to also consider therapy for yourself. Reading through all these posts, my mind was saying "WTF"? She clearly is very damaged and has mountains of emotional problems, but.. what is wrong with him? Why on earth would he keep hanging out with her?

 

 

When my crazy ex and I ended, I hauled my butt to therapy to see what was wrong with ME to have stayed with her through all her BS. It was worth every penny as we uncovered some issues in me that I needed to address.

 

 

I had to go HARDCORE NC from her in order to break the crazy on/off cycle. Was it hard? Yup! Was it doable? Oh heck yea. After a month or two, I was feeling so much better.

 

 

I applied what I learned in therapy and why my R/S history was loaded with emotionally un-healthy women. I applied what I learned when I started dating again. I dated this one girl for a few weeks when her red flags appeared. She was also an emotionally screwed up person and she was kicked to the curb immediately. The next woman had started to demonstrate too much baggage after a few weeks and I ran from her too. I then met my GF who is the most normal, emotionally healthy woman I've ever met. We're 2 years together now and super happy.

So, spending the money on therapy for me was a great asset in breaking my pattern of staying and sticking in with damaged partners.

 

 

You need to really consider therapy as well and go to NC to break this caustic, un-healthy, dysfunctional nightmare you've stayed in too long.

Edited August 6, 2015 by aloneinaz

[GammaLeonis]

The other day, she told me she's starting therapy on the 17th of Aug.

 

I offered to be there with her, mostly because I also wanted to set up my own appointments. In addition, making sure she ain't bluffing.

 

I wonder if having the same therapist (even if for separate sessions) could possibly help sort out the confusions and stress that's been plaguing me during the downs of our relationship. I figured the therapist would have a more complete picture of what's going on.

 

At any rate, I've been reading up materials to help me understand what happened and try to get over it.

 

I'm pretty sure I'll be fine with time.

 

It's also ironic that the word "therapist" can be split into "the rapist". Crazy huh?

 

Just FYI, she and I both work in the clinical laboratories...for all you folks out there, there are a lot of screwy peeps in healthcare for some odd reason.

[Downtown]

She's starting therapy on the 17th of Aug. I wonder if having the same therapist (even if for separate sessions) could possibly help sort out the confusions and stress that's been plaguing me during the downs of our relationship. I figured the therapist would have a more complete picture of what's going on.

GL, it is important that you see YOUR OWN clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you have been dealing with. Your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists usually are loath to tell high functioning BPDers -- much less tell her exBF or a spouse -- the name of the disorder. This information typically is withheld from high functioning BPDers for their own protection.

 

This generally is true even when you are paying the bill and attending some of the sessions. Hence, to obtain a candid assessment, it is important to see a psychologist who is ethically bound to protect only YOUR interests, not hers. Ironically, this means it is important to see a psychologist who has not treated or seen your exGF. For a more detailed explanation as to why this information is routinely withheld from BPDer clients and their spouses, see my post at Loath to Diagnose BPD.

[GammaLeonis]

I understand. I shall seek out my own clinician.

 

She agreed to therapy because I told her I wish she'd have her childhood traumas resolved. So, I was hoping she will at least do that by offering to accompany her.

[GammaLeonis]

Oh hey, I'm back!

 

It's been a few years. There is actually follow up to the story.

 

I think Downtown would be disappointed knowing that I kept done f-ing up everything.

 

But yeah...it really did get worse from there, after a period of niceness.

[mark clemson]

Turns out. She is a pathological liar (found out from her older sister).

 

 

Really this was all you needed to know.

 

But, it's only been 4 years of your life. Are you able to walk away successfully now with more wisdom and experience? Hope so.

[GammaLeonis]

Really this was all you needed to know.

 

But, it's only been 4 years of your life. Are you able to walk away successfully now with more wisdom and experience? Hope so.

 

Nah, tied to her for life really.

 

After all the drama, therapy, etc. It still didn't work out. Just trying to make sure our boy will grow up without being affected too much.

[spiderowl]

I am sorry this happened to you.

 

Some people have had abusive pasts; some will say they have when they haven't. People with mental disorders like borderline personality disorder may say all sorts of things. What one person considers abusive may not be what another considers abusive.

 

She claimed to love you, to want marriage. She then changed her mind. Now she is coming up with 'reasons' for her behaviour. Quite frankly, you need to get out of this relationship. You are never going to be able to trust this woman. People who behave badly often come up with 'rationalisations' as to why they behaved as they did. It doesn't mean that the 'reason' given is the real reason or even that it is true and happened. Many people have suffered abuse, trauma and tragedies in their lives and have not mistreated others.

 

Yes, people have suffered trauma and abuse in the past. If, as a result, they are now abusing others or lying, that does not mean you should forgive them spend time with them and fall in love with them. It can only lead to endless pain in the future. Cut through the crap here and look at how she has treated you. She led you on, let you down and is now coming up with reasons. No contact is the best approach here. You don't need to hear her 'reasons', just to get a different life which does not include her. This is the type of mixed-messages relationship that could go on tearing you apart forever, unless you draw a line under it.

 

You deserve someone honest, don't you?

[Downtown]

I think Downtown would be disappointed knowing that I kept done f-ing up everything.... it really did get worse from there, after a period of niceness.

GL, no need to beat yourself up over it. As I said earlier, it took me 15 years to break free.

 

A pwBPD usually is very easy to fall in love with -- and very painful to walk away from. A pwBPD typically exhibits the warmth, spontaneity, vulnerability, and purity of expressions that otherwise are seen only in young children.

 

As any parent can tell you, young children are VERY EASY to fall in love with. It thus is not surprising that two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.

 

Indeed, it is this childlike behavior that makes most pwBPD very hard to walk away from. Because you are essentially in a parent/child relationship, leaving is so painful because it feels like you're abandoning a young child who -- despite her frequent temper tantrums -- must dearly love and need you.

 

For articles on the painful process of walking away, I recommend Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD and the article, No Contact: The Right Way. Another good article is Pain of Breaking Up at the Psychology Today website.

[lonelyplanetmoon]

I just happened to stumble upon this thread yesterday and have read through all the links that DT posted. OMG I am in shock as everything makes so much sense now. My ex did have a troubled childhood but he seemed so sensitive and genuine!

Thank you so much for helping me put it into perspective. This is helping me to realize how much damage the relationship did to me. Being judged and criticized, and feeling that I could never meet his expectations...never....

And yes we were together 15 years! OMG!

[Downtown]

Being judged and criticized, and feeling that I could never meet his expectations...never.

Planet, thanks for the kind words. As I tried to explain earlier, whatever you do will be wrong most of the time when you are with a pwBPD. You will be wrong if you DO and wrong if you DON'T.

 

This conundrum is due to the position of his two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means you often find yourself in a lose/lose situation because, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you will start triggering the fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

 

Your predicament is that the solution to calming his abandonment fear (drawing close and being intimate) is the very action that triggers his engulfment fear. Likewise, the solution to calming his engulfment fear (moving back away to give him breathing space) is the very action that triggers his abandonment fear.

 

Hence, as you move close to comfort him and assure him of your love, you eventually will start triggering his engulfment fear, making him feel like he's being suffocated and controlled by you. Yet, as you back away to give him breathing space, you will find that you've started triggering his abandonment fear.

 

In my 15 years with my BPD exW, I found that there is no midpoints solution -- between "too close" and "too far away"-- where you can safely stand to avoid triggering those two fears. Until a pwBPD learns how to better regulate his own emotions and tame his two fears, that Goldilocks position will not exist. This is why a relationship with an untreated pwBPD typically is characterized by a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back.

 

Indeed, even if you are sitting perfectly still and not saying a word, a pwBPD who is experiencing hurtful feelings will project those feelings onto YOU. His subconscious does this to protect his fragile ego from seeing too much of reality -- and to externalize the pain, getting it outside his body. Because that projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, he will consciously be convinced that the painful feeling or hurtful thought is coming from YOU.

 

Hence, as long as you remain in a relationship with an untreated pwBPD, you will often find yourself hurting him -- i.e., triggering his engulfment fear as you draw near, triggering his abandonment fear as you draw back, and triggering his anger even when you are sitting still in a room saying absolutely nothing.

[GammaLeonis]

Hence, as long as you remain in a relationship with an untreated pwBPD, you will often find yourself hurting him -- i.e., triggering his engulfment fear as you draw near, triggering his abandonment fear as you draw back, and triggering his anger even when you are sitting still in a room saying absolutely nothing.

 

Even if I'm not in a relationship with her, it seems to trigger some sort of angry comments through emails.

 

Right now, I am just trying to be a good father to our son, who lives with her parents, right now. My ex also supposedly lives there at this time.

 

Pretty sure my ex's mother has some serious issues as well as she is extremely controlling, etc. At least, the boy loves her and is happy to see her. To some extent, the grandmother will have some tight restraint on my ex unless my ex wants to lose cheap rent/child care.

 

It's not like she would come back to me unless desperate. She already burned much of that bridge during our custody battle, libel, and slander about me. But with these people, it will happen when they need something from you.

 

On a different note, she might be dating someone.

 

I saw the doodle on her parents' driveway saying "Jerry + Mom (heart) [our son's name]" one night dropping him off. That picture was gone the next day.

 

I honestly feel bad for the man who wants to get involved with an undiagnosed person with BPD. He has no idea what he is getting into. A quick FB search showed some guy at her work with that first name. Looks like some guy in his mid 40s with a kid.

 

My ex seems to have a history with much older man (she's 28 turning 29 this year) and I was one of two guys she dated that was close to her age (I'm 30).

 

I was upset earlier this weekend, but I quickly realized that it can't possibly be all sunshine and bubbles. It will blow up at some point, and sucks to the man who thinks he picked up some gold while maybe believing her child's father is some prick when it could not be further from the truth.

 

Then again, it might very well be the name of one of our boy's stuffed animals and she was just trying to make me jealous.

[GammaLeonis]

I am sorry this happened to you.

 

You deserve someone honest, don't you?

 

Well, even after all the horrible things, there’s still lingering infatuation. It’s also not easy now we have a child together.

 

Her family is hostile towards me, but I still have legalities to back me up my rights. However, knowing the push and pull dynamic, it will be like so for the foreseeable future.

 

At least, until the child grows up.

[Blanco]

Man, I was reading through this thread, noting the dates as I got closer to the end. I assumed only the OP would revive a thread four years later, so as I got to the last page, I was thinking, "Please don't have married this woman, please don't have married this woman."

 

I'm sorry to hear you got sucked back in and are now tethered in some way forever, OP. I've never dated someone with BPD, but I can imagine how intoxicating elements of it can be. It was pretty clear in early in the thread that this woman was bad news, but again, I know it's not as simple as walking away.

 

Best of luck to you going forward.

[GammaLeonis]

"Please don't have married this woman, please don't have married this woman."

 

Best of luck to you going forward.

 

I almost did.

 

That would have been even more detrimental financially.

 

Yes, I'll take all the luck I can get.

 

It's a shame that not only she does not want to get better (she thinks nothing is wrong with her), but she also let's her controlling and narcissistic mom rule her life.

 

I would be lucky if our child rise above the circumstances.

[mark clemson]

That's unfortunate GL. Hopefully you will be able to move on to a healthy relationship at some point in the reasonable near future.