Afterlife

[writergal]

Our brains are wired for belief.

 

Belief in god.

Belief in karma.

Belief in soul.

Belief in heaven.

Belief in hell.

Belief in past lives.

Belief in aliens.

Belief in ghosts.

Belief in angels.

Belief in demons.

Belief in afterlife.

 

The belief in the afterlife has been around as long as humans have existed.

 

Religion is an organized system of mono-theistic beliefs centered around the goal of achieving a transcendental spiritual experience (go to heaven, not hell).

 

Mythology is more concerned with the spiritual aspect of what it means to be human, concern over how the world was created, the role that gods and goddesses play in a person's life, the afterlife, reincarnation and karma.

 

Yet despite this belief, there is NO EVIDENCE of an afterlife. None. Why? Science. That's why. The brain is a computer and it is literally responsible for *everything* we believe, think, and feel. Everything.

 

Personal accounts of past lives, out of body experiences, seeing ghosts of dead relatives can all be tied to the brain. Neuro-scientists have proof that the human brain is *wired* for belief (belief of any kind). Beliefs have a great power over people's lives and dictate how they live their lives.

 

Why do we believe anything at all? Because of our consciousness, which is run by the amygdala in the brain. Plenty of books have been written on the fact that what we think and believe is controlled by our brain -- biological determinism. Our brains are responsible for everything we believe.

 

Philosophers, theologians, spiritualists, priests, monks -- they all attribute our belief in the afterlife to one source: God. Christianity created the belief in the afterlife as a set standard for its practitioners. If you believe God, you believe in an afterlife. If you are Agnostic, you're not sure of an afterlife. If you're Atheist, you don't believe in an afterlife.

 

Now, I've read plenty of books about Buddhism, discussed Buddhism and reincarnation with Buddhist monks when I lived in China and even had the opportunity to see the Dalai Lama speak in my city. They all made good arguments for belief in karma and belief in reincarnation. And, I was raised Catholic, so the set standard belief of the afterlife was cemented in my belief system as a kid.

 

So, after all of those experiences do I believe in an afterlife? No, no I don't. And I don't think about my mortality other than "this is one life I have." I don't worry about what will happen after I'm dead because that's a waste of time.

 

I think people who believe in an afterlife do so because the thought of their own mortality scares them. Frankly, it's depressing to think that this is all there is -- this one life. But I think that's why people create other belief systems (reincarnation, heaven/hell, existence of ghosts, angels and demons), to soothe themselves.

 

If you don't believe that wildlife go to an afterlife, then what makes humans so different? Why are humans privileged to an afterlife, but not a dead butterfly or dead lion? If you want to believe that an afterlife exists, then it has to exist for every living thing, not just for humans.

 

I also think that people who believe in an afterlife believe that they're right, so there's no point in convincing them to seek a broader perspective. So I'm not going to argue with people who believe in an afterlife here.

[TaraMaiden2]

Mr. Lehrer calls this ability to identify and re-program what goes on inside our heads “the science of insight.”

 

Insight Meditation is an important method within Buddhism of Affecting current entrenched Mind-sets.

 

I notice they keep discussing the brain, but not the Mind.

 

Which has been established to be a different thing altogether.

[BlueIris]

This is interesting: (might have been posted already?)

http://uvamagazine.org/articles/the_science_of_reincarnation

 

 

I don't think of it as "after life." I think of it as continuity.

[umirano]

 

Could you please show me your evidence that there is no afterlife?

 

I am not the one making an existence claim. Can you prove to me that I don't have the world's largest diamond in my garage?

[umirano]

Our brains are wired for belief.

 

Belief in god.

Belief in karma.

Belief in soul.

Belief in heaven.

Belief in hell.

Belief in past lives.

Belief in aliens.

Belief in ghosts.

Belief in angels.

Belief in demons.

Belief in afterlife.

 

 

Of which the "belief" in aliens is the only one that isn't outright ludicrous. I have no positive belief in aliens, but statistics suggests that there must be many million planets like ours in our galaxy. It would be surprising if there was no other life in the galaxy. In fact light spectrum analysis has shown the presence of organic molecules in extra solar planets and a reasonable explanation would be that they're the result of living organisms.

 

A fact that's often overlooked in the discussion of aliens is that even though alien life is pretty much a certainty chances of us ever encountering them are minimal. Millions of planets is a tiny number in a galaxy of ~200 billion suns. Add to this that inner galactic travel is extremely slow (suns are far from each other) and significant speeds are very hard to reach.

 

We'll likely find (via electro-magnetic signals) other lifeforms but never meet them.

[TaraMaiden2]

I can, because I've got it.

 

Prove it ain't so.... (This could run and run....!)

[endlessabyss]

There's literally zero evidence for an afterlife (of any specie really). I don't think the portion of common DNA is relevant to this question.

 

After almost two hundred years of modern, enlightened medicine we haven't seen anything that suggests an afterlife outside of near death hallucinations.

 

If someone believes in the afterlife it's likely because it's a comforting idea. Powerful people who prevent others from experiencing joy and health love this scheme because it allows them to keep the gullible at bay and lie to them about the future paradise that they'll join.

 

You crack me up with these posts, man.

 

You, by far, are the most enlightened person ever.

 

Keep up the good work lol.

[umirano]

There is a teaching which states:

 

Take a candle.

Light it.

Now take a second candle.

Light this second candle, from the flame of the first candle.

Blow the first candle flame out.

This second flame: Is it the same flame as the first, or different?

 

To me it's a question, illustrated by an analogy. Not really a teaching. It's a different flame, because it's fed by a different candle's fuel. If you lighted a puddle of gasoline with that candle you'd agree that it's a different flame, would you not?

 

 

Apparently, according to Newton's Laws of Physics, Energy can neither be created, nor destroyed.

It simply transforms, changes, is moulded channelled and used.

 

So when a human body dies, where does the energy from its functioning physical entity, go?

What do you mean by energy? Mechanical energy is either kinetic or potential energy. Where this energy "goes" depends on what happens to the body after death. And it's no different from what happens with any inanimate object under the same circumstances.

 

Then there's a certain amount of chemical energy stored in the matter that makes up the death body. If it's burned it'll be transformed into heat, light and sound.

 

Similarly chemical energy will be released when that body decays under the influence of bacteria.

 

 

There's nothing mysterious about the end of human life.

[writergal]

Physicist Sean Carroll explains why there's no life after death.

 

43 minute video.

 

Summary:

 

The mind is the brain.

 

The brain is made of atoms.

 

Atoms do not persist after death.

 

Therefore, the atoms that make up "you" no longer exist after death.

Edited June 1, 2015 by writergal

[NGC1300]

Spiders have a brain and nervous system, bacteria and algae do not. I can't see why you would lump them together. I also don't see any reason why mice, dogs, chimps, or snails wouldn't have an afterlife, if humans do. The thought that they're so "low" as to be lumped in with nonconscious bacteria is a type of human arrogance.

 

 

No, I'm lumping humans in with bacteria too, so you missed the point.

 

Not saying there's such a thing as an afterlife, but the reasoning that if nonhumans could [sic] have it then humans couldn't is speciesist and rather nonsensical reasoning.

 

But that's the only logical conclusion one can come to if evolution is true, which as far as we know scientifically, it is.

[TaraMaiden2]

Physicist Sean Carroll explains why there's no life after death.

 

43 minute video.

 

Summary:

 

The mind is the brain.

 

The brain is made of atoms.

 

Atoms do not persist after death.

 

Therefore, the atoms that make up "you" no longer exist after death.

The 'MInd' is not 'the Brain'. (I posted a link on this, earlier, in response to a previous post of yours, as it happens...).

 

The two are different.

I can't get the video to work here, but again, it's just one person's opinion, based on his own theoretical research.

 

Fortunately, we can take or leave other people's opinions.

I leave it.

But still admit that frankly, I don't know.

Edited June 1, 2015 by TaraMaiden2

[Weezy1973]

The 'MInd' is not 'the Brain'. (I posted a link on this, earlier, in response to a previous post of yours, as it happens...).

 

The two are different.

I can't get the video to work here, but again, it's just one person's opinion, based on his own theoretical research.

 

Fortunately, we can take or leave other people's opinions.

I leave it.

But still admit that frankly, I don't know.

 

The mind is not the brain in the way that the graphics you see on your computer monitor is not your computer. The mind is produced by the brain. Without the brain, there is no mind. There is nothing "supernatural" involved.

 

When you turn off your computer, away go the graphics. When you "turn off" the brain (i.e. die), away goes the mind.

[writergal]

The mind is not the brain in the way that the graphics you see on your computer monitor is not your computer. The mind is produced by the brain. Without the brain, there is no mind. There is nothing "supernatural" involved.

 

When you turn off your computer, away go the graphics. When you "turn off" the brain (i.e. die), away goes the mind.

 

Exactly. The mind cannot be separate from the brain. Mental states are brain states.

 

The reason I don't believe in an afterlife is that after exploring two different religious paths, science makes much more sense to me personally, since science can prove why an afterlife doesn't exist.

Edited June 1, 2015 by writergal

[TaraMaiden2]

The mind is not the brain in the way that the graphics you see on your computer monitor is not your computer. The mind is produced by the brain. Without the brain, there is no mind. There is nothing "supernatural" involved.

I never said there was.

 

When you turn off your computer, away go the graphics. When you "turn off" the brain (i.e. die), away goes the mind.

If you say so.

I'm still open to the possibility though.

Science proves some things but not others.

While I totally accept and see the premise of a physical finality, nobody here has proven yet, that a stream of consciousness, a subtle ephemeral energy, does not continue.

 

As someone once explained to me, you can't see radio waves, but that doesn't mean they don't exist....

[madjac74]

It actually isn't. Try to think of yourself before you were born. That's exactly what it will be like after you died.

 

Well given that I don't even remember the first few years of my life, that doesn't help much.

[madjac74]

In fact light spectrum analysis has shown the presence of organic molecules in extra solar planets and a reasonable explanation would be that they're the result of living organisms.

 

It's probably your future transcended soul laughing at your pessimism. Prove me wrong.

[Haydn]

I`m rather warming to idea of an `Afterlife`

 

I assume it will be much like a hopelessly predictable Richard Curtis film.

 

Peppered liberally with a few giants of Hollywood.

 

All this sciency stuff has gone right over my head........

 

I assume science is much the same as buying 20 B&H and green Rizlas and insisting it`s for someone.....who has clearly lost their way.

 

Well the effect is the same........

 

But Angels... Who wouldn`t believe in them?

[umirano]

While I totally accept and see the premise of a physical finality, nobody here has proven yet, that a stream of consciousness, a subtle ephemeral energy, does not continue.

 

As someone once explained to me, you can't see radio waves, but that doesn't mean they don't exist....

 

Do you have any good reason to equate energy and consciousness? Other than buddhist doctrine?

 

While we can't see radio waves we can definitely and reliably make them available to our senses by transforming them into sounds or optical signals in a oscilloscope. This is something that has never been done for (spiritual?) energy.

 

Again you're asking the skeptical side to disprove on of your positive claims. If science, or the legal system worked like this we would live in a very different world, you realize that? In such a world I could accuse you of having stolen my large diamond, and you'd have to disprove me.

 

We never prove universal negatves in any aspect of our lives. Why is this practice flipped on its head when it comes to the subject of religion?

[umirano]

It's probably your future transcended soul laughing at your pessimism. Prove me wrong.

 

Thanks, you made it already abundantly clear that you don't care for the concept of the burden of proof.

 

What pessimism are you talking about? Is that the one thing that gives you comfort? Lying to yourself that because I don't buy into your fairytales I must be pessimistic?

 

Of course throwing all the mind numbing nonsense that religion is out of the window is sobering. But it's not a sad world I live in at all. I'm quite happy for instance that I'm very likely not subject to an eternal, celestial dictatorship of any sort.

[todreaminblue]

I feel that people should believe what they want to believe..what resonates with them....if you dont believe in an afterlife then thats your choice.....

 

 

i like to feel i will be held accountable in my life for all i do right and all i do wrong by myself and by others.....i try to keep the wrong to a minimum and not do wrong.......and in that .....all people are held accountable.....especially certain people pertaining to me who have touched me in not so good ways...enough said.......it helps me go on with my life.....i actually want to be judged by the only one who should judge...however that may be.....i hope that i have done my best by the powers above.....to delight in peace and rest and pure joy in immortality...its really the only way i make sense of my life....and all the pain others go through.....or i have been through....for that reason alone....i refuse to believe its all for dust and bones...another reason is so that if something were to happen to me early in this life....my daughters would know i look over them and i am with them....waiting just behidn the veil for their turn to come.........i hope that belief woudl bring them peace and comfort.....if i were to believe there was nothing it is all for nothing...i would be dead.....for whats the use...all th people i have ever tried to help to give hope too...all for nothing but dust and bones at the end of their journey and the end of mine....i fidn that......an unpleasant view of reality...to me it seems unreal.......deb

[Trimmer]

Physicist Sean Carroll explains why there's no life after death.

 

43 minute video.

 

Summary:

 

The mind is the brain.

 

The brain is made of atoms.

 

Atoms do not persist after death.

 

Therefore, the atoms that make up "you" no longer exist after death.

Actually, you have (certainly accidentally) misrepresented the sequence. In fact, it is very clear that atoms DO persist after death, but it's not just the presence of the atoms that make up the mind, but the information that is encoded within the structures of the brain. The sequence becomes:

 

The mind is the brain.

The brain is made of atoms.

We know how atoms work.

There's no way for the information that is "you" to persist after death.

 

(see 8:03 in the video)

 

I first looked and saw this was a 40+ minute video and though "No way I'm going to watch the whole thing..." and then proceeded to watch the whole thing. He's a very engaging speaker - thanks for the link.

[Arieswoman]

For the sake of a balanced discussion here is the Christian perspective ;-

 

https://www.probe.org/what-happens-after-death/

 

I believe in an afterlife.

 

I know nurses who sat with dying people and saw a white mist rise from the chest area of the person's body at the time of death. Although these people were not practicing Christians, they believed that this was the person's soul.

 

I know people who have seen a dead person appear to them shortly after death, in a different location. One of these people was my great auntie.

 

We have numerous recorded instances of NDE

 

i find it hard to believe that all these people were/are hallucinating.

[Trimmer]

For the sake of a balanced discussion here is the Christian perspective ;-

 

https://www.probe.org/what-happens-after-death/

 

I believe in an afterlife.

 

I know nurses who sat with dying people and saw a white mist rise from the chest area of the person's body at the time of death. Although these people were not practicing Christians, they believed that this was the person's soul.

And yet, your linked reference to the Christian perspective - written by an author with apparently very impressive credentials and multiple divinity degrees - very clearly and confidently uses the phrase "immaterial soul", indicating that there can be no material or physical manifestation thereof...

 

I know people who have seen a dead person appear to them shortly after death, in a different location. One of these people was my great auntie.

And yet, in the linked article you provided, it is clearly stated that the Christian perspective is that communication of any kind with the dead is both forbidden, and not possible.

 

There seems to be little consistency between the "Christian perspective" and reported evidence of afterlife. If you trust that evidence, does that not invalidate the Christian perspective, then? If you insist the Christian perspective is gospel (literally, ha ha!), then don't you have to discount these kinds of reported "evidence" as inconsistent with the Christian view?

 

We have numerous recorded instances of NDE

 

i find it hard to believe that all these people were/are hallucinating.

The article you linked says "NDEs come from those who have been clinically dead, not biologically dead," implying that it's a condition of a NDE that the body still be biologically alive, i.e. that the biological processes of the brain are still at least partially active. I don't have any problem believing that the dying (but not-yet-dead) brain could hallucinate, possibly even to the degree that it incorporates external sensory inputs (which could also be active in a dying but still biologically active body.)

 

And then there is the Alex Malarkey affair ("The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven") The book that bears his name describes its own contents: "Alex awoke from a coma with an incredible story to share. Of events at the accident scene and in the hospital while he was unconscious. Of the angels who took him through the gates of heaven itself." Yet he now states: "I did not die. I did not go to Heaven... I said I went to Heaven because I thought it would get me attention." Remember - his account included descriptions of "events at the accident scene and in the hospital while he as unconscious." (Washington Post, 'Boy Who Came Back From Heaven' actually didn't; books recalled, 1/15/2015, updated 1/16/2015) So I remain highly skeptical about such testimony.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Trimmer

[writergal]

Actually, you have (certainly accidentally) misrepresented the sequence. In fact, it is very clear that atoms DO persist after death, but it's not just the presence of the atoms that make up the mind, but the information that is encoded within the structures of the brain. The sequence becomes:

 

The mind is the brain.

The brain is made of atoms.

We know how atoms work.

There's no way for the information that is "you" to persist after death.

 

(see 8:03 in the video)

 

I first looked and saw this was a 40+ minute video and though "No way I'm going to watch the whole thing..." and then proceeded to watch the whole thing. He's a very engaging speaker - thanks for the link.

 

Ah, whoops. I did. He's a great speaker!

 

Here's

on the afterlife.

[Trimmer]

Also, on the topic of aligning the "Christian Perspective" with stories of Near-Death Experiences (NDEs), as if NDEs provide some kind of "evidence" that supports the Christian Perspective on the afterlife, there are some that believe these are not consistent viewpoints.

 

For example, Hank Hanegaraff, President of the Christian Research Institute and host of the "Bible Answer Man" broadcast on radio stations in the US and Canada, has trouble reconciling the Christian Perspective with accounts of NDE's. In a guest blog, this obviously Christian thinker is actually somewhat critical of Even Alexander's book "Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife". He goes on to actually suggest that NDE's are not generally consistent with the Christian perspective, and essentially supports the naturalistic explanation for them (i.e. brain hallucinations.) It's on a blog with commercial ads, so I can't post the direct link, but google:

"How Should Christians Think About Near-Death Experiences" "Hank Hanegraaff"

...with quotes as shown, and it should come up as the first link.

 

This is not the only source I've found that disclaims the alignment between NDE reports and the classical Christian view of the afterlife.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Trimmer