Exploring the psychology of being in affair....

[Josmatjes]

So, based on your comment in your first post, you are still wanting a divorce. Since he found out about your affair and you're still with him, did you tell him you wanted to stay in the marriage and work on it?

 

Yes but it's like he is in total denial! He refuses to acknowledge this. I've told him I want a separation, divorce, and he gets really sad than like an hour later he's like, ok so what's for dinner tonight? I find it disrespectful at this point.

 

I'm only here because of finances. People act like its so easy to get divorced, well it's not. There is a lot to think of. Also, the affair just opened my eyes to feelings that I've never experienced with my husband. I wanted out way before mm. Also my husband is a descent good guy and he has admitted to having some real issues lately, so I just don't want to hurt him either. I know I sound crazy but it's not an easy decision.

[autumnnight]

This is a very difficult situation.

Edited June 1, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[GirlStillStrong]

Yes but it's like he is in total denial! He refuses to acknowledge this. I've told him I want a separation, divorce, and he gets really sad than like an hour later he's like, ok so what's for dinner tonight? I find it disrespectful at this point.

 

I'm only here because of finances. People act like its so easy to get divorced, well it's not. There is a lot to think of. Also, the affair just opened my eyes to feelings that I've never experienced with my husband. I wanted out way before mm. Also my husband is a descent good guy and he has admitted to having some real issues lately, so I just don't want to hurt him either. I know I sound crazy but it's not an easy decision.

 

Thanks for sharing this. "My" MM could have written exactly what you wrote. He has told me he has expressed to his wife that he wants to separate and divorce. He says she just gets angry, throws things, etc and then next thing you know she has forgotten all about what he said and it's business as usual. He says he cannot handle the stress of a contentious divorce. Too bad for him. If it were me, if I were that unhappy, I would walk away and never turn back. But that's just me. Not everyone can do that sort of thing.

[midlifewife]

Your story is exactly why I never married. That whole "till death do you part" thing really just has never sat well with me. I like change. I like new experiences. I get in relationships with men and after all the chemicals wear off I can't believe what the other person's idea of a relationship is. I never feel like I get very much from relationships. Men seem needy to me and often don't appear to make good decisions IMO. That's just my experience.

It's crazy how my thoughts about marriage have changed since I was in my 20's! I think I agree with what you're saying. At this point in my life, assuming I do divorce, I feel like I'd have no desire to get married again...would love to fall deeply in love, but also very much crave more independence. It sucks that I feel so unjustified in my desire to change course at this age...I guess I worry too much about what people will 'think'. I don't want to be accused of being selfish or bailing on my marriage. I definitely worry more about about how H and his family will react than how I feel like I'm smothering slowly in my marriage. I also wish I could stop questioning my feelings...there's a part of me that thinks I've just convinced myself that I want out and that could change if I really started thinking differently. The one thing that I just don't ever waver on or question, however, is that I don't feel physically/intimately attracted to my H. Either I live with that (which is the part I waver on) or leave.

 

If the feelings of shame and guilt are not helping you or the situation any, I say lose them. Negative feelings only attract more negativity IMO.

Thank you for this....I think I really needed that reminder. I believe this statement 100%.

[SolG]

1) Addiction: I can't believe how much it feels like an addiction/obsession. While we text nearly every day, and often several times a day (not non-stop though), if I don't hear from him for a while and don't know why, I get anxious and on edge. I get distracted from work, become very unproductive and practically stare at my phone. As soon as he texts, I feel incredibly relieved and happy (almost deliriously so) and can go on with my day. Getting that message is like a 'hit' and a really sweet/sexy message takes the 'high' up another notch. I have a friend who is going through almost my exact situation and we confide in each other. She totally gets it, and I'm sure many of the OW/MOW on here get it, too. The problem is, even though I understand objectively this as an addiction, I have no idea how to change it. I don't know if I'll ever have the strength to end it, and am worried about how I'd be able to handle him ending it. Since it's such an addiction, I know the withdrawals will be very hard to manage. I also realize that the addiction is probably related to the feeling/high more than it is related to this one person. I definitely know I need to do more therapy to work on this (have had addictive/obsessive tendencies before in various things), but just wanted to see if anyone here had had any success in moderating their addiction and being able to break free of some of the hold it has over you. I should also mention that I've been on anti-depressants for a number of years, and have both mild (manageable) depression & anxiety symptoms.

 

Many people actually don't understand this component of an A. To be more accurate, it's not really like pathological substance abuse (addiction). Infidelity in its classic form just exploits the nature of the normal reward system.

 

The popular misconception of the reward system is that the reward itself activates dopamine release. This is only partially true. The greatest dopamine payoff actually comes from ANTICIPATION of reward. And it gets even more complex in that consistent reward stimulates steady low-level 'I'm doing a good job' dopamine release, but much higher levels are released in the anticipatory state when you introduce 'maybe'. The sweet spot of max dopamine release is when you believe that a reward will be forthcoming around fifty per cent of the time.

 

Paradoxically, it is the very uncertainty of an A that kicks the reward system into high gear. The will he/won't he text/call/see me dynamic that generates the highest anticipatory response; particularly if you believe that he will indeed around fifty per cent of the time. And it is the belief, not the actual return rate, that is important to the brain. Las Vegas is testament to that.

 

If you add the other relationship hormones (eg, oxytocin, vasopressin, etc) and the conditioning inherent in emotional memory to the normal reward response, you have a very heady mix indeed. Whilst not pathological addiction (which incidentally reduces key dopamine receptors), it is intoxicating.

[midlifewife]

Many people actually don't understand this component of an A. To be more accurate, it's not really like pathological substance abuse (addiction). Infidelity in its classic form just exploits the nature of the normal reward system.

 

The popular misconception of the reward system is that the reward itself activates dopamine release. This is only partially true. The greatest dopamine payoff actually comes from ANTICIPATION of reward. And it gets even more complex in that consistent reward stimulates steady low-level 'I'm doing a good job' dopamine release, but much higher levels are released in the anticipatory state when you introduce 'maybe'. The sweet spot of max dopamine release is when you believe that a reward will be forthcoming around fifty per cent of the time.

 

Paradoxically, it is the very uncertainty of an A that kicks the reward system into high gear. The will he/won't he text/call/see me dynamic that generates the highest anticipatory response; particularly if you believe that he will indeed around fifty per cent of the time. And it is the belief, not the actual return rate, that is important to the brain. Las Vegas is testament to that.

 

If you add the other relationship hormones (eg, oxytocin, vasopressin, etc) and the conditioning inherent in emotional memory to the normal reward response, you have a very heady mix indeed. Whilst not pathological addiction (which incidentally reduces key dopamine receptors), it is intoxicating.

Wow, thanks so much for sharing this. It makes total sense. There have been times when I've literally jumped up & down with excitement when I've received a message from AP. Kinda feel like a complete lunatic, but it's true.

 

The 'conditioning' is also a piece that I've observed in myself so clearly. I have a specific ringtone I've set for my AP's messages that I leave on during the day at work, and also have it on vibrate. My heart literally jumps and races every time I hear this tone (but as you said..it's less pronounced when I'm expecting it). Also, if I'm holding someone else's phone and it vibrates, I get the same physical reaction. I feel like Pavlov's freakin dog. One time I was in a store, and a phone kept going off with that ringtone and I got almost agitated. The worst is when I get some notification that uses that specific ringtone or vibration set up by default (new apps, etc). When I get the 'signal' without the 'reward', it's worse than getting nothing. It's like a quick high that gets completely shot down when I realize it's a false alarm. I panic and have to change it right away. It's crazy, I know!

[Minnie09]

Yes but it's like he is in total denial! He refuses to acknowledge this. I've told him I want a separation, divorce, and he gets really sad than like an hour later he's like, ok so what's for dinner tonight? I find it disrespectful at this point.

 

I'm only here because of finances. People act like its so easy to get divorced, well it's not. There is a lot to think of. Also, the affair just opened my eyes to feelings that I've never experienced with my husband. I wanted out way before mm. Also my husband is a descent good guy and he has admitted to having some real issues lately, so I just don't want to hurt him either. I know I sound crazy but it's not an easy decision.

 

It's never an easy decision, and nobody I know says that divorcing is "so easy". You just need to get to that point where you just do it - after debating and overthinking and considering all options, thinking through the worst case scenarios, everything that could go wrong and driving yourself nuts - after all that, and it usually takes forever and is pure torture, you still won't know for sure if divorcing will make your life even worse......or better.....you will simply never be sure.......but at one point you will just be satisfied with the mere OPTION that you MIGHT be happier.......and then you'll just jump. No certainty. Just hope. And when you're ready, you'll jump. And as hard as it is, if you're really that miserable in your M, it'll give you a lot of energy and you'll just be happy you did it. You'll be anxious, but energized. It's a good place to be.

[elizabeth2222]

It's never an easy decision, and nobody I know says that divorcing is "so easy". You just need to get to that point where you just do it - after debating and overthinking and considering all options, thinking through the worst case scenarios, everything that could go wrong and driving yourself nuts - after all that, and it usually takes forever and is pure torture, you still won't know for sure if divorcing will make your life even worse......or better.....you will simply never be sure.......but at one point you will just be satisfied with the mere OPTION that you MIGHT be happier.......and then you'll just jump. No certainty. Just hope. And when you're ready, you'll jump. And as hard as it is, if you're really that miserable in your M, it'll give you a lot of energy and you'll just be happy you did it. You'll be anxious, but energized. It's a good place to be.

Wow...this was really, really helpful, Minnie. Is this what you did?

[Minnie09]

Wow...this was really, really helpful, Minnie. Is this what you did?

 

Yes.....took me abt. 3 years to finally do it, but I never regretted it and should've done it sooner. But I had a job and a stable income, luckily.

[Southern Sun]

Many people actually don't understand this component of an A. To be more accurate, it's not really like pathological substance abuse (addiction). Infidelity in its classic form just exploits the nature of the normal reward system.

 

The popular misconception of the reward system is that the reward itself activates dopamine release. This is only partially true. The greatest dopamine payoff actually comes from ANTICIPATION of reward. And it gets even more complex in that consistent reward stimulates steady low-level 'I'm doing a good job' dopamine release, but much higher levels are released in the anticipatory state when you introduce 'maybe'. The sweet spot of max dopamine release is when you believe that a reward will be forthcoming around fifty per cent of the time.

 

Paradoxically, it is the very uncertainty of an A that kicks the reward system into high gear. The will he/won't he text/call/see me dynamic that generates the highest anticipatory response; particularly if you believe that he will indeed around fifty per cent of the time. And it is the belief, not the actual return rate, that is important to the brain. Las Vegas is testament to that.

 

If you add the other relationship hormones (eg, oxytocin, vasopressin, etc) and the conditioning inherent in emotional memory to the normal reward response, you have a very heady mix indeed. Whilst not pathological addiction (which incidentally reduces key dopamine receptors), it is intoxicating.

 

This is interesting and evidence-based (Skinner box). But I would also like to hear the science about the effect of people actually LIVING in this state long-term. I can't imagine a human being was designed to stay in this state of high dopamine, etc., for long periods of time. And if they do, what is the impact to the human body.

[Giggle]

I can relate to another app making the same noise as his message. It wasn't nearly so bad when other people messaging had the same noise. Now that we have to use a different app, it's hard to still not get that reaction when I hear the old one.

 

I don't so much think I have the anticipatory response as I know with certainty I will hear from him from the time he leaves to work until he gets home. I expect /not/ to hear from him in the evening. If I do it's a pleasant surprise.

 

This is very interesting though. Since it's so hard to untangle. This morning he said that he was just happy I was in my life. A why do I have to be malcontent. Butthead. Sigh.

[Lonely73]

I could have written your entire post!!! And now that my MM left me with no explanation, the withdrawals are terrible. No sleep, weight loss, anxiety, crying...I miss my fix.

[chew123]

midlifewife,

 

Does your husband know about this, If not , tell him, divorce him and treat him fairly in the divorce.

 

You have already committed the biggest betrayal a wife can do to her husband. Divorce him and let him go find someone else who treats him with the respect and love he deserves.

 

By the way, once involved in an affair, the cheating spouse often rewrites the marital history in their minds with things like I never loved my husband etc

Edited August 18, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[midlifewife]

Not that it really matters, but our problems and my feelings pre-date the affair by at least a decade, so I am not re-writing history. The A happened because I waited too long to do the hard work of addressing the problems in the marriage head-on...which is what I'm trying to do now. It is also not something that would turn into anything even if I got divorced. It's basically just been an escape mechanism for me, mostly texting.

 

You are right...if I decide I want to at least try to stay in the marriage, I have to tell H about it and then he will have to decide if that's what he wants. I guess all my angst about making a decision may not even matter.

Edited August 18, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[SpokenFor]

1) In an affair you have developed lots of reasons why it is 'OK' at some level to commit this betrayal and how your husband fails to excite you. This fog pervades your thinking. That's Ok if you want to make your decisions this way, and if you want to try to live a life in a fog with a series of partners. Sounds like you've accomplished what you want in your marriage (got kid or kids raised successfully) and now want to look forward to having more fun. The fog will do that for you.

2) Don't believe for a minute that his emasculation (lack of confidence, assertiveness, etc) are only a cause of your discontent. In your marriage you have through the years been part of that emasculation and your discontent has made these issues worse. You could work on them, but I see that you quite strongly prefer to play.

 

I am not trying to minimize your feelings and there is nothing wrong with going out dancing and enjoying your life if that's what you want. You clearly have been unable to make your husband happy and confident in his life for whatever reason, and he has clearly failed to meet your expectations.

 

I just wish you had done so honestly as opposed to getting in a fog and then looking for the easy way out.

 

Sorry, I know that seems harsh but it happened to me a long while ago now. I am very certain my Ex regrets the decisions she made in the fog but for me once she did I was more than able to go forward and build a happy and way more productive life. I am certain that will be true for your husband and I hope it is the case for you too.

Edited August 18, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[chew123]

midlifewife,

 

I was in a very similar situation to your husband and yourself. You say it is not much and you are only texting, but you talk about the excitement when you receive a text. If you are going to continue contact with your AP your judgement will continue to be clouded.

 

My wife behaved very similarly to you. Finally confessed the affair after my son went to college. Devastated me since I lost my wife and my son went away to college at the same time. It has been almost a year now and I am recovering.

 

I can tell u that once the affair came to light my wife refused to end it my path was clear. And honestly I don't think I could ever reconcile after the way I was betrayed. Note my wife and I were together for 35 years.

 

I am not judging you but sharing my experience. I have a new life and will eventually have a new love. Or not. Still better then living with someone who hurt me and my son so deeply.

 

Tell him , take the consequences and get on with your lives.

 

Good luck with whatever path you choose.

[oldshirt]

[reference to redacted material deleted] I'm not necessarily saying that divorce isn't the best option in the long run.

 

What I am saying is your brain, your lady parts and your psyche are under the influence of some very powerful affair hormones that are just like a drug. And like a druggie under the influence, you aren't going to make the most rational and wisest decisions.

 

Right now you're having your cake and eating it too. You are getting stability and security and comfort from your H, but you are also getting your fun and excitement and hormone rushes from your OM.

 

by your own admission the relationship with OM probably won't last once you are divorced so you are holding on for fear of the unknown and fear of losing your stability, comfort and companionship.

 

But you are also assuming that is you stay in your marriage that you will die a long, slow death of boredom and lack of passion and romance.

 

Both of those fears may be an illusion brought on by the affair fog. You lack stability and security with the OM so your reliance on your M for security and companionship and your fear of change may be exaggerated.

 

You are getting your hormone rush and sense of passion, intimacy and sexuality from your OM and you have pushed your H out of your bedroom (figuratively speaking) so your boredom and frustration and lack of desire in your marriage may also be exaggerated.

 

Cont...

Edited August 18, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[oldshirt]

Cont......

 

So where I am going with this is clear your head of all intoxicants and addictive hormones and make a rational decision based on realities.

 

End the affair. Go completely NC with the OM and stay away from anyone new and give yourself time to clear your system of the affair fog and then make a decision based on the facts.

 

You may find that you really are dying a slow painful death due to lack of passion and desire in your marriage and you may realize that there is a whole new life waiting for you out there and that you no longer fear cutting the cord.

 

.........If that is the case then you'll feel confident in your decision to divorce.

 

Or there is also the possibility that if you clear your system of the affair hormones that your husband isn't such a dud in the sack after all and that marital life isn't a dungeon after all and it is a better match for you to remain in the marriage for all its real world benefits rather than chasing rainbows out in the single world.

 

Either way, its making a realistic decision with a clear mind, rather making a rash decision with a brain and ovaries full of sex intoxicant.

[starglider]

Dear Midlifewife,

 

Can you see that you are in the midst of a mid-life crisis? I say this with compassion because I have a similar story as yours, and right now I'm in the 3rd month of a 3 month trial separation with my husband.

 

In my case, my husband had withdrawn from me physically and I was the one who had an emotional affair. The posters that wrote about the hormones and affair fog are totally correct and you are going through a chemical drug-like surge right now that will probably be followed by a crash and a depression.

 

My advice is to stop the affair, go NC (it took me several failed attempts but I'm now on 3 months of NC-yay!), enter IC, and possibly MC, and do a trial separation before you jump into divorce. The fantasy component of an A cannot be understated, especially when you are hitting a "boring streak" in your life during your 40s when things are stable and not new.

 

It is a really tough journey you are embarking on and it will only get worse for a while. I do think the key is "standing on your own two feet" and recovering your sense of self, which can happen better in separation and NC so you don't have either men in your life for a while (actually I do have contact with my H a few times a week which is good because we have a daughter together and a business to run). Tell your H the full truth about the A and your ambivalence about the M. I downplayed my emotional attachment of my EA at first but ultimately disclosed this and my M ambivalence to H too.

 

Even with NC with my EA partner (who also went through separation but has since reconciled), I still miss him terribly and still [sometimes, on bad days] hold onto the fantasy thought that we are destined to be together and his reconciliation will ultimately fail. It is still hard to let go and I know he is checking up on me from afar. But the reality side sees this as not being about him, but about me, and like most MLC about unresolved childhood issues and tough emotions from poor attachment patterns. In my case also about co-dependent tendencies that must be resolved.

 

I think the EA did open up for me the thought that there is a better match for me out there in the world. I see my H and myself as "mismatched dance partners" or see it that we're operating on different vibrational frequencies. Your H sounds like a better match for you than my H is to me - mine has troubles (depression, pot addiction, and he's been unemployed while I've been the bread earner for years). So even with his kind soul, my life was lonely with him. Now I'm getting to the point where my sense of self and who I am are returning. That gives me strength for the future. So I get what you are saying about your optimism for a better life and for not settling.

 

Please just go slow. Things may be fixable in your M and more importantly, I hope you'll see that somethings in you need fixing or realignment too.

 

Big picture, I think life is not supposed to be a struggle and I think life is supposed to be uplifting and fun, where we feel creativity and power and potential and joy coursing through us. I don't think that is just me missing my AP or the chemicals of our time together. I think it can exist in a sustained way. My goal now (and I'm close) is finding those feelings within MYSELF fully and not expecting them to come through any partner. I've had a few great weeks of this feeling so I think I'm coming over the hump and will find happiness again.

 

I hope you find it too.

Edited August 18, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[midlifewife]

[Reference to another thread redacted]

 

As an example...within the hour, I returned from an IC visit, haven't been there in over a year (last time was few months before I met AP). Towards the end of the session, the therapist said to me..."Before you got here, I had just reviewed the notes from our last session, and you are saying the same things as you did then, and that you did 3 years before that." I also have journals written years before the A that say these same things.

 

I am not justifying the A; however, I just want people to understand that not every person who strays in their marriage follows the same exact patterns, nor do all affairs/cheating have the same dynamic. I simply am not re-writing history, and I'm not thinking about my marriage any differently now than I did before my 'fog'. I haven't even been in the same state w/AP for 7 months. I'm not enmeshed in a love affair that is clouding my judgement. I'm just a person who knows I need to end my marriage, has been putting it off out of fear, and is just becoming ready to face it head-on. Obviously, it would have been the right thing to do to have done this prior to cheating. But, I didn't, and I just need to do the next best thing now.

Edited August 18, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[SycamoreCircle]

oh, sweetheart... this is pure torture.

 

i've been there -- you got a great man, he's amazing, all is well... but you can't see him as a MAN, an attractive man. a man that makes you tear his clothes apart and attack him every minute of the day.

I guess I'm a little perplexed by this sentiment. Mini, I'm not sure of your age, or if it matters, but do you really think this is a "sustainable" feeling? Maybe for someone that reads a lot of romance novels. But let's face it---partnering with someone, living with them, being around them day after day after day, the brutal reality of his eventual...HUMANNESS is going to dawn on you. Rather, this just sounds like the talk of persons who haven't sown all the seeds they need to sow.

[Sweet Workaholic]

Many people actually don't understand this component of an A. To be more accurate, it's not really like pathological substance abuse (addiction). Infidelity in its classic form just exploits the nature of the normal reward system.

 

The popular misconception of the reward system is that the reward itself activates dopamine release. This is only partially true. The greatest dopamine payoff actually comes from ANTICIPATION of reward. And it gets even more complex in that consistent reward stimulates steady low-level 'I'm doing a good job' dopamine release, but much higher levels are released in the anticipatory state when you introduce 'maybe'. The sweet spot of max dopamine release is when you believe that a reward will be forthcoming around fifty per cent of the time.

.

 

In studies of gamblers their highest arousal comes when they are waiting for the hole card to turn over (or the dice to land). They are much more stimulated in the moment of uncertainty than even when they win.

[CountryPeach]

In studies of gamblers their highest arousal comes when they are waiting for the hole card to turn over (or the dice to land). They are much more stimulated in the moment of uncertainty than even when they win.

 

I feel like the original poster is living my life. Everything is exactly the same except I have the 7 year old child and have never been on a dating site. The above quote about the gambling addiction really spoke to me. My MM is on vacation with his W and BF. It has been killing me to the point of anxiety (I'm being treated for depression and anxiety as well). When we were texting today I told him I could not handle this any longer. I have tried to break it off but feel truly addicted to him. As I was typing this he sent me a goodnight text and the feeling that shot through me was pure adrenaline. I hate this and I want out but I love the feeling I get from him when I am with him (3x in 4mo). When we seperate to go home its the worst feeling of withdrawal I could possibly manage on my own. I want and need to learn how to detach from this A. Anyone offering realistic advice would be helpful. I to realize the severity of the situation and I to am a logical person but just caught up in a whirlwind of new emotions.

[CountryPeach]

I could have written your entire post!!! And now that my MM left me with no explanation, the withdrawals are terrible. No sleep, weight loss, anxiety, crying...I miss my fix.

I'm so sorry. I think that's why we are all on here bc we can relate and have or have had all the same fears.

[CountryPeach]

My husband found out and he ended it. We had to do a lot of damage control over the past year, and it drained everything that we once thought we had.when it originally happened, I was so far into the fog at that point I was devastated! I mean I was so depressed I didn't even know what to do with myself. I was head over heels in love and so was he.I thought that having this affair could keep me satisfied enough to stay married. . But I'm more based in reality now,for sure. I know that a relationship started in deceit can never endure. I still think of him but it's not with the longing that I used to.There is a lot more to it but the bottom line is that I'm trying to find the strength now to make the right choice without hurting my husband even more.

I'm there with you. My husband found out about the texting and that's all. I have been trying to consume myself with "woman and mother work". Very sad all the way around.