When the xMM suggests an occasional booty call...

[Southern Sun]

Okay, first know that this happened during that last phone call we had, which was what prompted me to go scorched earth on his a$$ and finally and forever be done. I am still NC, coming up on 8 weeks.

 

But as I get distance from this "affair" (if I can even call it that) all the pieces of the puzzle are coming together. I am seeing things differently. I don't really want to go into detail here, but I wanted to throw this one out to you lovely LS folks.

 

This last phone call I had with xMM occurred because he broke NC after we had officially said goodbye. He tricked me into calling him by claiming there was a legal issue at work he needed to talk to me about (he was my former boss). He asked me if I could please call him and it made me concerned. It worked and I agreed. After about 30 minutes of a bunch of other stuff, he finally revealed that he didn't need me for the legal issue. That was it. But that's when he proposed that we meet in a hotel room. And then we went on further to suggest that perhaps we could do that every 6 months. He said that his wife couldn't have it all that bad at home, but he was miserable and would like to have a little fun. He had spent the prior 30 minutes of the call talking about how great we were together (sexually). I was mostly silent. And then he threw out this proposition. Then he offered that I could think about it, said "I love you" and hung up. Note that this was after a very purposeful GOODBYE conversation where we ended it. So I guess he kinda forgot about that.

 

That was it.

 

I have been totally NC ever since, completely ignoring his attempts to get to me. I was already done before this, we had said goodbye. But man, this was the final nail in the coffin to me.

 

But back to my question. My thought is - if you were at one time truly "in love" with someone, how could you ever be okay with a booty call arrangement? That's what I want to know. I know I could not be. I don't think so anyway. It's like trying to be friends after a serious relationship.

 

So are guys different? Is it all the same to them - they could just switch to a booty call, even if they were in love? Or does it mean that really the relationship wasn't all that special to them to begin with?

 

It seems to me, that if a person was truly special to them, they could not treat them so flippantly.

 

I think my xMM has real issues, which is a huge part of this. But that's kind of an aside.

 

What say you?

[minimariah]

But back to my question. My thought is - if you were at one time truly "in love" with someone, how could you ever be okay with a booty call arrangement? That's what I want to know.

 

i'll answer from my own point of view -- i could be okay with a booty call because it means i'm still in love with that person and i'd take booty call over no call anytime.

 

same with friends - when i offer booty calls and friendships, it's usually because i can't let that person go so i'll take ANY kind of arrangement just to keep them around (usually a bad idea). but then again, i'm not an MM.

 

that being said -- stay NC, keep your head up & take it one day at a time. i view this booty call as one of the last desperate attempts at keeping you.

[BetrayedH]

It was about the sex.

[RoseVille]

i'll answer from my own point of view -- i could be okay with a booty call because it means i'm still in love with that person and i'd take booty call over no call anytime.

 

Yup.

 

BUT, this a**hat isn't in love with you. He told you he loves you as a hook, hoping that you'll take less than crumbs because he thinks you're so desperate to be with him, just so he can get laid.

 

I'm actually grossed out by his phone call!!! (And yet I can see my own MM doing that later down the road... Note to self!)

 

Don't do this.

[m4p]

Suggesting a booty call as a "consolation" to an end of a A is pretty insulting to me.

 

To me if the A was both an EA and PA, and xMM actually dared to ask me that, my heart will probably be broken all over again and I would go all ballistic (which will probably make NC much easier). On the other hand, who knows? I might have agreed, as I was in love with him. But the main point is that this proposition will definitely open my eyes (eventually or immediately) to the type of person he is to have made it.

 

I don't believe a person who claims to love and care for you will prolong your suffering in this situation by suggesting such a warped arrangement after all the drama.

 

I can't imagine suggesting this to any of my exes or even xMM. UNLESS, I think it is something both parties want and would work. My few FWBs "relationship" was platonic and with both parties 100% willing. I was fond of them but definitely not emotionally involved.

 

It is either he does not care for you at all and think that he can treat you this way, or he actually thought that it is something that you want and would like to go along with it....

 

Sorry if I don't make sense.

[Southern Sun]

I guess I tend to agree with BetrayedH. If he felt as you say, minimariah, like he loved me and would take what he could get, why say, "Sometimes I just want to have fun." Why not say, "I love you, and I don't want to give you up entirely. I know we can't be together, but something is better than nothing."

 

The other thing is, I have the benefit of knowing our history. I know how we started, and I know how he managed me down. It became, over time, about sex, which was VERY uncomfortable for me. So it almost feels like this every 6 months booty call would be ideal to him. All of the benefit, none of the difficulties.

 

I mean, I would LIKE to think it's because there are actual real feelings below the surface there. But I'm afraid it's wishful thinking. (Keep in mind that this is not because I want him back. It's really just because I would like to think I didn't do all of that, risk my whole life, for someone who ultimately just used me for sex).

[anika99]

As a woman, obviously I would never agree to such a thing and I'd be deeply offended if an ex suggested it. The only way I would be okay with that is if I never loved the guy to begin with and I'm cool with us just using each other for sex, but I don't get into sex only relationships so I guess even then it would be a no.

 

 

I can't speak for men, but I've never had an ex suggest a booty call relationship. I know there was one guy that I broke up who had strong feelings for me. I had feelings for him too and didn't want to see him go completely from my life. I asked if we could get together a couple of times a month as friends, to talk and be supportive of each other. He refused, stating that it was a cruel and selfish of me to even ask that of him. I think we could have been friends at some point but he needed time away from me to get over the feelings and then once the feelings were gone he likely didn't see any point in being friends.

 

 

I'm sure any relationship could include a cruel selfish man like this, but it seems to be rather common in affairs, where the MM starts out all lovey dovey and emotional with the OW but when something happens to change the circumstances the MM pulls away and happy to make it all about the sex.

[Southern Sun]

Yup.

 

BUT, this a**hat isn't in love with you. He told you he loves you as a hook, hoping that you'll take less than crumbs because he thinks you're so desperate to be with him, just so he can get laid.

 

I'm actually grossed out by his phone call!!! (And yet I can see my own MM doing that later down the road... Note to self!)

 

Don't do this.

 

Oh, I was disgusted. The way he so casually threw it in there, as if it was no big deal, and then told me I could think about it (oh, thanks!). And don't worry. Not doing it. Never even considered it.

[Southern Sun]

Suggesting a booty call as a "consolation" to an end of a A is pretty insulting to me.

 

To me if the A was both an EA and PA, and xMM actually dared to ask me that, my heart will probably be broken all over again and I would go all ballistic (which will probably make NC much easier). On the other hand, who knows? I might have agreed, as I was in love with him. But the main point is that this proposition will definitely open my eyes (eventually or immediately) to the type of person he is to have made it.

 

I don't believe a person who claims to love and care for you will prolong your suffering in this situation by suggesting such a warped arrangement after all the drama.

 

I can't imagine suggesting this to any of my exes or even xMM. UNLESS, I think it is something both parties want and would work. My few FWBs "relationship" was platonic and with both parties 100% willing. I was fond of them but definitely not emotionally involved.

 

It is either he does not care for you at all and think that he can treat you this way, or he actually thought that it is something that you want and would like to go along with it....

 

Sorry if I don't make sense.

 

I found it to be the ultimate insult. I decided it was the last time he would disrespect me.

 

As I've said, I had already made the decision we were over. We had supposedly "agreed" to it. But he kept pushing the boundaries, and then this BS.

 

I was thinking again last night that it must mean that he could have never actually loved me.

[Hope Shimmers]

I mean, I would LIKE to think it's because there are actual real feelings below the surface there. But I'm afraid it's wishful thinking. (Keep in mind that this is not because I want him back. It's really just because I would like to think I didn't do all of that, risk my whole life, for someone who ultimately just used me for sex).

 

My ex-husband suggested booty calls for years after our divorce. But then, our sex life was never the issue. Men compartmentalize.

 

Southern, I know the above is how you feel, and I used to feel that way too. Finally though I realized that in the end it doesn't really matter. It happened; it's over and you can't go back and un-do it. The reasons he did it are known only to him. You believed that's how he felt at the time, so don't beat yourself up more if you're now thinking that he really didn't. The only thing you can do is let it go and move forward.

[Southern Sun]

As a woman, obviously I would never agree to such a thing and I'd be deeply offended if an ex suggested it. The only way I would be okay with that is if I never loved the guy to begin with and I'm cool with us just using each other for sex, but I don't get into sex only relationships so I guess even then it would be a no.

 

 

I can't speak for men, but I've never had an ex suggest a booty call relationship. I know there was one guy that I broke up who had strong feelings for me. I had feelings for him too and didn't want to see him go completely from my life. I asked if we could get together a couple of times a month as friends, to talk and be supportive of each other. He refused, stating that it was a cruel and selfish of me to even ask that of him. I think we could have been friends at some point but he needed time away from me to get over the feelings and then once the feelings were gone he likely didn't see any point in being friends.

 

 

I'm sure any relationship could include a cruel selfish man like this, but it seems to be rather common in affairs, where the MM starts out all lovey dovey and emotional with the OW but when something happens to change the circumstances the MM pulls away and happy to make it all about the sex.

 

I agree with you. I think even outside of the affair dynamic, I would be offended by this, with someone I loved. For some reason, being in an affair makes everything different. It's like it's all on the table. I got married at 24 to my college boyfriend and had only had 3 sexual partners prior to that, all long term boyfriends I was in love with. I'm not judging others, but I have literally never had sex without love.

 

In my case, what you describe in your last paragraph occurred in rather dramatic fashion. He turned it on HARD, layed the charm on very thick. It was staring into each other's eyes and all that crap for oh, maybe 6 whole weeks. And then pulling away, growing cold, controlling the affection, blah, blah. He was my boss at work (he owned the company), so it was just very uncomfortable. And then he dumped me, but started using me for sex (he would tell me he missed me, come back, then give me the silent treatment, then get angry, then make things difficult at work, then get nice again, come back, tell me he missed me...you get the idea).

 

It was hell.

[BetrayedH]

I mean, I would LIKE to think it's because there are actual real feelings below the surface there. But I'm afraid it's wishful thinking. (Keep in mind that this is not because I want him back. It's really just because I would like to think I didn't do all of that, risk my whole life, for someone who ultimately just used me for sex).

 

This ^^^ is exactly why so many women simply cannot end an affair. To end the affair for good would mean that it wasn't "true love" (which would be worth fighting for) and to admit that for their married man, it was about the side sex. Women (and men) want to feel valued. Women in particular are drawn to the emotional part of the affair; it's very validating to feel that a man would risk everything (wife, kids, job) to be with you. In fact, that's much more validating than the attention of a husband that is contractually obligated to be with you and can only have sex with you.

 

But given time (which is many times YEARS), a woman eventually is able to read the future-faking, the delays, etc and realize that while he's taking a risk, it's a calculated risk for extramarital sex. And that's not very validating at all. In fact, it's the opposite. That makes the woman feel stupid and used. It's a difficult pill to swallow. And breaking up with a MM permanently means accepting that that was the nature of the relationship: a side piece. That IS the hardest thing to accept. And so instead of making that permanent break, they continue to engage in a bunch of mental gymnastics to keep in contact and keep hope alive that maybe he really was "in love."

 

So many OW don't even want the OM anymore but they also don't want to accept that they did all of this "for nothing" or just to be used for sex. I freakin' hate that dynamic. The common end result is that both women lose and the MM wins.

[Southern Sun]

My ex-husband suggested booty calls for years after our divorce. But then, our sex life was never the issue. Men compartmentalize.

 

Southern, I know the above is how you feel, and I used to feel that way too. Finally though I realized that in the end it doesn't really matter. It happened; it's over and you can't go back and un-do it. The reasons he did it are known only to him. You believed that's how he felt at the time, so don't beat yourself up more if you're now thinking that he really didn't. The only thing you can do is let it go and move forward.

 

And you know your ex really loved you, I assume. So strange.

 

What you say is true. I know. I over-analyze. I want to make sense of what happened to me. Crying at the moment

[Southern Sun]

This ^^^ is exactly why so many women simply cannot end an affair. To end the affair for good would mean that it wasn't "true love" (which would be worth fighting for) and to admit that for their married man, it was about the side sex. Women (and men) want to feel valued. Women in particular are drawn to the emotional part of the affair; it's very validating to feel that a man would risk everything (wife, kids, job) to be with you. In fact, that's much more validating than the attention of a husband that is contractually obligated to be with you and can only have sex with you.

 

But given time (which is many times YEARS), a woman eventually is able to read the future-faking, the delays, etc and realize that while he's taking a risk, it's a calculated risk for extramarital sex. And that's not very validating at all. In fact, it's the opposite. That makes the woman feel stupid and used. It's a difficult pill to swallow. And breaking up with a MM permanently means accepting that that was the nature of the relationship: a side piece. That IS the hardest thing to accept. And so instead of making that permanent break, they continue to engage in a bunch of mental gymnastics to keep in contact and keep hope alive that maybe he really was "in love."

 

So many OW don't even want the OM anymore but they also don't want to accept that they did all of this "for nothing" or just to be used for sex. I freakin' hate that dynamic. The common end result is that both women lose and the MM wins.

 

Wow, this is so true, insightful. We want to believe it wasn't all for nothing. And sometimes, it just was.

 

The good news here, BetrayedH, is that the xMM in my case is not winning. He must have gotten whiplash with how hard I went NC. And I didn't just go NC. I am done.

[Southern Sun]

My ex-husband suggested booty calls for years after our divorce. But then, our sex life was never the issue. Men compartmentalize.

 

Southern, I know the above is how you feel, and I used to feel that way too. Finally though I realized that in the end it doesn't really matter. It happened; it's over and you can't go back and un-do it. The reasons he did it are known only to him. You believed that's how he felt at the time, so don't beat yourself up more if you're now thinking that he really didn't. The only thing you can do is let it go and move forward.

 

I was thinking more about this...here's another difference. Perhaps your ex-husband wasn't suggesting this at risk to you? My xMM suggested this knowing that this caused me to continue to betray my husband. It did not allow me to move on, to heal. It would be dangerous, a risk. It would hurt me, set me back. Although, I don't think his strengths were in the empathy department.

 

So if your ex suggested it, it could have been mutually beneficial (granted, I do NOT know your relationship, so forgive me if I'm wrong!). In my situation, it was most definitely beneficial to him, yet most definitely to my detriment. He is heading towards divorce, could care less about healing his marriage. He knew I was trying to put mine back together.

 

He just simply put himself first, every time, all the time.

[m4p]

And you know your ex really loved you, I assume. So strange.

 

What you say is true. I know. I over-analyze. I want to make sense of what happened to me. Crying at the moment

 

Oh god I hope you feel better soon.

 

It is over and be glad that it is... I find myself over analyzing the HELLA out of every little aspect of the A.... Doesn't make things easier to swallow too.

 

Perhaps there really isn't any sense to be make of a situation that was doomed. I hope you heal soon.

[RoseVille]

This ^^^ is exactly why so many women simply cannot end an affair. To end the affair for good would mean that it wasn't "true love" (which would be worth fighting for) and to admit that for their married man, it was about the side sex. Women (and men) want to feel valued. Women in particular are drawn to the emotional part of the affair; it's very validating to feel that a man would risk everything (wife, kids, job) to be with you. In fact, that's much more validating than the attention of a husband that is contractually obligated to be with you and can only have sex with you.

 

But given time (which is many times YEARS), a woman eventually is able to read the future-faking, the delays, etc and realize that while he's taking a risk, it's a calculated risk for extramarital sex. And that's not very validating at all. In fact, it's the opposite. That makes the woman feel stupid and used. It's a difficult pill to swallow. And breaking up with a MM permanently means accepting that that was the nature of the relationship: a side piece. That IS the hardest thing to accept. And so instead of making that permanent break, they continue to engage in a bunch of mental gymnastics to keep in contact and keep hope alive that maybe he really was "in love."

 

So many OW don't even want the OM anymore but they also don't want to accept that they did all of this "for nothing" or just to be used for sex. I freakin' hate that dynamic. The common end result is that both women lose and the MM wins.

 

Woah. Watershed moment here.

 

Can you please post more in this OW forum? Please?!

[Hope Shimmers]

This ^^^ is exactly why so many women simply cannot end an affair. To end the affair for good would mean that it wasn't "true love" (which would be worth fighting for) and to admit that for their married man, it was about the side sex. Women (and men) want to feel valued. Women in particular are drawn to the emotional part of the affair; it's very validating to feel that a man would risk everything (wife, kids, job) to be with you. In fact, that's much more validating than the attention of a husband that is contractually obligated to be with you and can only have sex with you.

 

But given time (which is many times YEARS), a woman eventually is able to read the future-faking, the delays, etc and realize that while he's taking a risk, it's a calculated risk for extramarital sex. And that's not very validating at all. In fact, it's the opposite. That makes the woman feel stupid and used. It's a difficult pill to swallow. And breaking up with a MM permanently means accepting that that was the nature of the relationship: a side piece. That IS the hardest thing to accept. And so instead of making that permanent break, they continue to engage in a bunch of mental gymnastics to keep in contact and keep hope alive that maybe he really was "in love."

 

So many OW don't even want the OM anymore but they also don't want to accept that they did all of this "for nothing" or just to be used for sex. I freakin' hate that dynamic. The common end result is that both women lose and the MM wins.

 

True in some cases, but we didn't get much sex because we were hundreds of miles apart.

[BetrayedH]

True in some cases, but we didn't get much sex because we were hundreds of miles apart.

 

It's certainly not always true. I've seen a few cases here where I did buy that the MM was actually emotionally connected. I just think that it's by and large, the rare exception. The problem: the rule is that we all like to think that we're the exception.

 

But speaking as a man, I can say it's remarkable how much we are conditioned and trained to say what's necessary to women to keep just the possibility of a future hook-up at play. Men will gladly invest six months worth of words (which don't cost much) just for the potential of a twice-a-year romp in the sack. We're trained on what to say and to keep the emotions flowing. Even in the meantime, it can be exciting to get a woman worked-up and on the line. It's an ego stroke. I'm not even sure that it's always a conscious effort; it's engrained in us. As a 45-year old guy now, I'm quite glad to be out of that game.

[Bittersweetie]

This ^^^ is exactly why so many women simply cannot end an affair. To end the affair for good would mean that it wasn't "true love" (which would be worth fighting for) and to admit that for their married man, it was about the side sex. Women (and men) want to feel valued. Women in particular are drawn to the emotional part of the affair; it's very validating to feel that a man would risk everything (wife, kids, job) to be with you. In fact, that's much more validating than the attention of a husband that is contractually obligated to be with you and can only have sex with you.

 

But given time (which is many times YEARS), a woman eventually is able to read the future-faking, the delays, etc and realize that while he's taking a risk, it's a calculated risk for extramarital sex. And that's not very validating at all. In fact, it's the opposite. That makes the woman feel stupid and used. It's a difficult pill to swallow. And breaking up with a MM permanently means accepting that that was the nature of the relationship: a side piece. That IS the hardest thing to accept. And so instead of making that permanent break, they continue to engage in a bunch of mental gymnastics to keep in contact and keep hope alive that maybe he really was "in love."

 

So many OW don't even want the OM anymore but they also don't want to accept that they did all of this "for nothing" or just to be used for sex. I freakin' hate that dynamic. The common end result is that both women lose and the MM wins.

 

Have to agree with BH's post above. Even after xOM dumped me for another girlfriend (he was still married), I continued to believe that our connection was too strong to not mean anything. What we had meant something, and I would have to be the person that held on to that so it didn't disappear.

 

And, when he circled back to me months later, I was still there, waiting, because of that strong connection, because I "held true."

 

Now, when I think of how much I risked for that connection, it makes me want to vomit. I risked everything, and now I see that he didn't really care for me, he only cared about himself.

 

It was a bitter pill to swallow, especially considering the pain I caused my H and myself.

[Adoraxx]

That's interesting, Southern Sun! My xMM proposed the same to me a while ago! He said: "why can't we just have sex every now and then?" and then he quickly added: "And a cup of tea". He also said that I should call him if I want sex, and that he should be able to do the same. I told him I can't deal with that and he got frustrated and said "there are millions of women out there who CAN handle it!" Whatever!! I can't!!

 

And he asked me this after being in our A for years. The A started all hot and heavy with "I love you's" and this and that, lots of contact, but pretty soon it all dwindled down to the MM giving me crumbs of his time, crumbs of his attention, crumbs of everything. Even the sex wasn't any special and pretty soon after things started to dwindle down, I tried to put an end to that.

 

Anyway, I understand completely why this was the final nail in the coffin to you!! For me it was too I suppose.. I always suspected that he only wanted me for sex and nothing else, and I think all the I love you's were a bunch of lies , because the way he treated me wasn't loving at all.

 

I will NEVER be okay with a booty call arrangement!! Never!! I love this man and he used to be 'in love' with me but now I doubt that too , I think it was all part of his plan to make me into his submissive always wanting sex OW.

 

After he said this to me, I realized that I always thought that it was a 'love affair' and to me it was but to him it wasn't.

[Adoraxx]

In my case, what you describe in your last paragraph occurred in rather dramatic fashion. He turned it on HARD, layed the charm on very thick. It was staring into each other's eyes and all that crap for oh, maybe 6 whole weeks. And then pulling away, growing cold, controlling the affection, blah, blah. He was my boss at work (he owned the company), so it was just very uncomfortable. And then he dumped me, but started using me for sex (he would tell me he missed me, come back, then give me the silent treatment, then get angry, then make things difficult at work, then get nice again, come back, tell me he missed me...you get the idea).

 

It was hell.

 

this is EXACTLY what my xMM did .. unbelievable

[BetrayedH]

Woah. Watershed moment here.

 

Can you please post more in this OW forum? Please?!

 

I used to post a lot more here. Unfortunately, I found that a lot of women here just aren't ready. I realized that, as I said above, it commonly takes years for women to really get to the point where they can accept that the guy just really isn't going anywhere. It's hard to watch women keep throwing good money after bad. And when it's been years of trying to remain hopeful, that a very difficult investment to give up. I get it. All the guy has to do is create another little sense of hope (breadcrumbs, as they say) and it helps to fuel that denial that it's a hopeless situation. No one wants to feel like they were stupid, used, and played, especially for years. With so much time and emotion invested, it becomes easier to just wait one more day. It's hard to watch. And there's already a litany of voices saying to dump the MM. In the end, I think most women just end up convincing themselves over time. That's the one thing the MM can't stop - the passage of time. It seems like 3-4 years is some kind of invisible threshhold where women do begin losing patience. But even then, it's just the beginning of acceptance and taking definitive action. Many times, he has kids and that's the perfect trump card - that he just can't break up his children's family. It makes him all the more the good guy, doesn't it? I think that one is what really gets them years of grace - that they love their kids so much that they just can't leave. Hook, line, sinker.

 

Sadly, after a few years of agonizing over it, the real hard work begins - feeling like crap about losing the man, about the wife 'winning' (when she may not have even been a bad spouse at all), about being manipulated, and accepting that it was for nothing. So many just slink away, still trying to protect their MM, holding onto some hope that he's actually a decent guy that really cared about her. The guy doesn't even get exposed after messing with two women's lives. And the MM keeps his wife, keeps betraying his wife, and probably takes up with another OW - one that has less drama because she hasn't even started that 3-4 year journey yet. And now he's skilled at what he does.

 

Makes me want to barf.

[RoseVille]

Well, BH, you might not think your perspective helps and that we're all gonna be in this for years on end, but it's perspectives like yours (a non-OW and non-BW [the BW perspective is very different than the unbiased BH]) are really illuminating for someone like me who's still fairly new to the whole deal. So I hope you contribute more often... if only in my threads. Haha!

[GoldieLox]

Oh Southern, I'm late to this thread, but... what an a#&hole. Makes my xAP look like Prince Charming, and that's saying something.

 

I know what it's like to have the feeling that you were just nothing but used for sex. It's hard not to when someone says something like that to you. No matter how many times xAP told me I wasn't, and part of me believes it, I'll still always question it. It's a really crappy feeling, but this is where you have to dig deep for your self-esteem and realize that you can't let it define you.