When the xMM suggests an occasional booty call...

[BetrayedH]

You should write a book! I wonder how many women looked to their affair partner to take this type of control? I know I did. Psychological BDSM was a huge part of my affair.

 

It was a part of my wife's affair, as well. She once told me that he was more dominant in bed and that was part of it. I was pretty shocked, only because I had real dominant interests as well. I told her, "You'd never let me move even so much as your hand during sex." She was like, "Really?" Um, yeah. She never would have tolerated me positioning her where I wanted, let alone any of the much more dominant behaviors I engage in today (and that she very likely engaged in with her AP). I can say with certainty that it was her inability to go there that stopped us. Rather unfortunate.

[Brigit]

It was a part of my wife's affair, as well. She once told me that he was more dominant in bed and that was part of it. I was pretty shocked, only because I had real dominant interests as well. I told her, "You'd never let me move even so much as your hand during sex." She was like, "Really?" Um, yeah. She never would have tolerated me positioning her where I wanted, let alone any of the much more dominant behaviors I engage in today (and that she very likely engaged in with her AP). I can say with certainty that it was her inability to go there that stopped us. Rather unfortunate.

 

Really? I'm sorry it was like that for you. I would think she would have at least approached you first about her kinky thoughts before venturing out. That's what I did. I bought a book called "The Loving Dominant" read it and showed my husband. He freaked out and said he wanted "NOTHING to do with that book!" I was angry. I was speaking to a bunch of women who were into all kinds of stuff and I really wanted to try some of it out. I didn't want to be hit but I wanted to be "man handled" I spelled it out for him several times.

[BetrayedH]

Really? I'm sorry it was like that for you. I would think she would have at least approached you first about her kinky thoughts before venturing out. That's what I did. I bought a book called "The Loving Dominant" read it and showed my husband. He freaked out and said he wanted "NOTHING to do with that book!" I was angry. I was speaking to a bunch of women who were into all kinds of stuff and I really wanted to try some of it out. I didn't want to be hit but I wanted to be "man handled" I spelled it out for him several times.

 

Yeah, sometimes it's the male with a Madonna/Whore complex that can't get his head around doing kinky things with his good wife. It goes both ways. I remember a line from Goodfellas; Robert DeNiro's character is asked why he takes up with mistresses. He replies, "Hey, my wife kisses my kids with that mouth."

 

With my exwife, I don't think she had it in her to be submissive to her husband, even though being manhandled was obviously a fantasy of hers. For lack of a better term, she was a type A personality. I'm laid back. I don't think she could handle giving up ground to me. I'm not sure what she thought of me. I can tell you my current GF has reaped the benefits. The things we do would make you blush, but it's all in good fun.

[RoseVille]

Pretty good post here. It's tough but also great that you're being introspective. I haven't read thru the rest of your threads/posts so I'm a little ignorant of the full context. But I'll venture to post a novel here anyway.

 

In the four years or so that I've been here earning my virtual PhD in Infidelity, I've seen a few common characteristics of wayward spouses. Sometimes it's just one of these; in other cases there's a bit of a toxic combination.

 

(1) Severe conflict-avoidance. As with any marriage, there's disagreement, annoyances, and conflict. Some address it directly. Others have learned to avoid conflicts. And many times, being conflict-avoidant is very well-intentioned. No one wants to be the bitch or the nag. And most people know that marriage involves compromise. But some people really have difficulty addressing what they "need." Instead of addressing a problem, they try to make a sacrifice and put it behind them. Given time, these little issues develop into resentment. And one thing I know for sure is that unresolved resentment will kill any relationship. The things my wife listed as marital challenges after I discovered her affair were almost comical and frankly, pretty easily resolved once I really knew about the level of import (and that she'd grown resentful about them). But she didn't grow up in a family that dealt with conflict, at all. It wasn't a tool she had in her toolkit. If she did anything, she made what she called "softball attempts" at things. For example, she started buying 2% milk and lowfat snacks. I was supposed to understand that I needed to lose some weight.

 

(2) An excessive need for external validation. In some cases, people have low self-esteem and seek out validation from others. Maybe they just never got the approval of parents. Maybe they were ridiculed in school. For some, even if they're in a perfectly good relationship, the sudden attention from someone of the opposite sex is very validating. Unfortunately, a spouse isn't very validating. They are contractually stuck with you. Even if they want to have sex with you, they're not even allowed to have sex with anyone else so it doesn't make you feel special or personally desirable. However, if that married guy with two kids suddenly starts to make eyes with you, you DO feel desirable and special. This only gets magnified if he starts to take risks with his marriage, kids, and career in order to be with you. You start to feel like you must really be something if he's willing to do that. The attention is intoxicating. A spouse has little chance of competing with that. Worse yet, they don't even know that a competition for their spouse is happening.

 

(3) An overdeveloped sense of entitlement. Sometimes a spouse is just fine but the wayward wants, and feels they deserve, more from life. They want the home life and excitement, too. The operative phrase is, "I deserve to be happy." When combined with, "What they don't know, won't hurt them" then you've got a solid rationalization for going outside of the marriage. It doesn't apply to everyone but my wife, like many others, came from a family of very self-entitled people. It was just part of her upbringing.

 

What I see with most affairs is that they aren't logical; they don't solve marital problems. They aren't ethical; it's not "fair" to keep your spouse faithful while you play single. They aren't healthy; they involve huge risks and have the potential to really hurt people that we love, including kids. And for most people, they aren't moral as it goes against their own belief system.

 

So why would someone make the illogical, unethical, destructive, and immoral choice to have an affair? I think it's usually one of those three reasons (severe conflict-avoidance, an excessive need for external validation, or an overdeveloped sense of entitlement). What's interesting is that none of these things has to do with the betrayed spouse or the marriage. I firmly believe that infidelity is a personal problem, not a marital one.

 

Why do I mention all of this? Because I think it's great that you're being introspective. I don't hear you blameshifting your choices onto your spouse; you are looking within. I believe that the things that cause affairs to happen are typically a result of our childhood and our family of origin. We are broken to an extent that we make sometimes very poor choices as a coping mechanism.

 

The cool thing is that I do believe many people can be fixed (for lack of a more elegant term). We can change. We can improve. Your spouse is probably obsessed with wanting to know "why" you had this affair. Hell, you're probably struggling to understand why. If you can identify your personal 'why,' then I truly believe you'll be more apt to identify when you're leaning that direction in the future and you can alter your course. Even better, your husband can feel more confident that he'll avoid a repeat performance. Being broken from something in our past doesn't have to define us for life. And It doesn't make us the antiChrist. And so I believe that given the right circumstances (a truly remorseful wayward spouse that embraces looking inward), forgiveness is perfectly acceptable.

 

And that forgiveness extends both from the betrayed spouse and from the wayward spouse to him/herself. Sometimes it's even easier for the BS. What I recommend for the wayward is making decisions of which you can be proud. And keep making them. Be proud of that 8 weeks, and keep going. When you consistently make decisions that you're proud of, it truly is only a matter of time before your self-pride returns. And that is many times, the key to everything.

 

I'm in awe.

 

My MM has all 3 of those things.

[Brigit]

Yeah, sometimes it's the male with a Madonna/Whore complex that can't get his head around doing kinky things with his good wife. It goes both ways. I remember a line from Goodfellas; Robert DeNiro's character is asked why he takes up with mistresses. He replies, "Hey, my wife kisses my kids with that mouth."

 

With my exwife, I don't think she had it in her to be submissive to her husband, even though being manhandled was obviously a fantasy of hers. For lack of a better term, she was a type A personality. I'm laid back. I don't think she could handle giving up ground to me. I'm not sure what she thought of me. I can tell you my current GF has reaped the benefits. The things we do would make you blush, but it's all in good fun.

 

Me blush? Doubt it. I have a good imagination.

 

I'm glad you've found love again. Many betrayed spouses become too angry and bitter to have another meaningful relationship.

[BetrayedH]

I'm in awe.

 

My MM has all 3 of those things.

 

For what it's worth, Rose, I did read thru some of your posts/threads (gosh you have a lot lately) and I'm at a bit of a loss when it comes to you. As a single OW that's fairly satisfied with the arrangement, I'm not sure I have any words of wisdom for you. If the fOW on these boards can't paint a picture for you of how bad it can get, I'm not sure I can be any more convincing. There are some OW who are content to know their place. But I think there are few that really don't eventually want something more. By the time that happens, you may have invested the better part of a decade in this dead-end relationship. And your perspective on participating in the betrayal of the guy's wife may change. I see an awful lot of women here that just end up destroyed - no man, no self-worth, a broken heart, the best years of their life wasted. I'd much rather see you pursue available men, even if success seems unlikely. That's got to be better than pursuing one that you know is hopeless.

[BetrayedH]

Me blush? Doubt it. I have a good imagination.

 

I'm glad you've found love again. Many betrayed spouses become too angry and bitter to have another meaningful relationship.

 

Thanks. I was very fortunate to find a rebound relationship that blossomed, mostly because she had all of the qualities that were missing in my wife. My wife's affair was really just the final representation of our marital dynamic. Being with someone that legitimately enjoys and appreciates my company has really made me appreciate that the old marital dynamic is gone. I did struggle with trust mightily when we first started dating but made a sudden and firm decision that she was not my wife and hadn't done this to me. She also "got it" and made a lot of voluntary efforts around transparency. To be brief, I've been lucky.

 

As for any further conversation about blushing, we may need to take that to a different forum.