Still Struggling

[Babs22]

He treats people that way at work but I'm sure I get it the worst. I do try and get away from him when he's yelling but he'll follow me around the house. I try to get to the bathroom to lock myself in but he'll block my way. He has never hit me. Ever. He will admit the yelling is wrong but say that everything he yells about he believes is valid. At this point I'm sick of his nastiness and his family issues. I don't know what my long term plans are with my marriage. My short term plans are to become a stronger person.

 

I am so sorry you have to live like that. My husband is not a huge yeller, but when he gets angry he really doesn't know how to deal with it. It doesn't happen often but yelling does occur. I don't get this and I don't like it. I finally would just asked him to lower his voice. I'd tell him, I'm standing right here and I can hear you, you don't have to yell. Of course he didn't like this but he would lower his voice. In my H's case I know he doesn't go to work and yell at people, why would he do this to the people he supposedly loves? I know he probably learned this behavior as a child from his dad. But it is not okay to treat people that way. I hope you can figure out what you want.

[Brigit]

Do you leave the room when he raises his voice?

 

I try but he follows me and blocks my access to escape and continues to yell. My mom said next time he does this I should just grab the dog and go to her house but I'm not sure if that would piss him off more. If it's daytime in the spring or summer I tell him I want to go hang out in the shed and listen to Echkart Tolle for a while depending upon how angry he is and how much he wants to yell will determine if he lets me go.

 

In the end he feels that it's my fault that he yells because if he tells me something in a softer voice and I don't like it or agree with it he gets frustrated and therefore yells. But sometimes I don't agree with him and I'm going to voice my opinion.

[Brigit]

I am so sorry you have to live like that. My husband is not a huge yeller, but when he gets angry he really doesn't know how to deal with it. It doesn't happen often but yelling does occur. I don't get this and I don't like it. I finally would just asked him to lower his voice. I'd tell him, I'm standing right here and I can hear you, you don't have to yell. Of course he didn't like this but he would lower his voice. In my H's case I know he doesn't go to work and yell at people, why would he do this to the people he supposedly loves? I know he probably learned this behavior as a child from his dad. But it is not okay to treat people that way. I hope you can figure out what you want.

 

He did learn this behavior from growing up in a household with parents who yelled at each other. I don't yell. I get angry and depressed and will say the most hateful things when I'm being attacked but I won't yell. Sometimes I think I'd be better off single but I'm worried I'd be lonely. IDK.

[Babs22]

He did learn this behavior from growing up in a household with parents who yelled at each other. I don't yell. I get angry and depressed and will say the most hateful things when I'm being attacked but I won't yell. Sometimes I think I'd be better off single but I'm worried I'd be lonely. IDK.

 

I will stand up for myself during an argument, but I don't say hurtful things to h. He will say hurtful things to me. After he yells I do get quiet and depressed. We never usually actually deal with the problem. The bad thing is, if he's angry at one of the kids I feel like I get blamed. It's like Me and the kids are one entity, if he's mad at one he's mad at all. I'm pretty tired of it. I think the same thing. Maybe it would be better to be on my own.

[autumnnight]

I try but he follows me and blocks my access to escape and continues to yell.

 

THIS is a problem

[turnera]

He treats people that way at work but I'm sure I get it the worst. I do try and get away from him when he's yelling but he'll follow me around the house. I try to get to the bathroom to lock myself in but he'll block my way. He has never hit me. Ever. He will admit the yelling is wrong but say that everything he yells about he believes is valid. At this point I'm sick of his nastiness and his family issues. I don't know what my long term plans are with my marriage. My short term plans are to become a stronger person.

Ok, then, here is my routine I tell every woman in your situation.

 

This is a boundary/consequence issue. He does it because you have NO boundary about being abused and you give out NO consequence for someone doing it. With an abusive man, you start small, and work your way up to bigger consequences. Now, a consequence is NOT something you do to HIM. It is something that you do around YOU, to protect you.

 

In this instance, your boundary needs to be 'nobody yells at me/blocks me leaving/is nasty.' A typical - and doable - consequences that you then enact if he DOES any of these things is to leave the room.

 

I tell women to start small - leave the room. You say 'please don't yell at me, I don't deserve to be yelled at' and you leave for 20 minutes; if when you come back in the room he yells again, you leave again. If he follows you to another room, you leave THAT room. By then, you should have picked up your wallet and the car keys, just in case. If he follows you to another room and continues to yell, you leave the house and go for a walk for 30-60 minutes. If he's just waiting to start in on you again by then, you go to the car and leave. Go for a drive. Come back in a couple hours. If you feel safe enough, include "I don't deserve to be yelled at" before you leave.

 

If he's still yelling when you come home, if it's safe, you grab some overnight stuff, and go spend the night at a hotel or a relative's/friend's house. If it's not safe to be in the house by then, you just LEAVE.

 

Hopefully, he has learned by now that you won't PARTICIPATE in his abuse. If he tries to pick it up again when you come home the next day, you get some MORE stuff and leave for 2 or 3 days. Let him cool his heels. Let him sit there, alone, and see what his actions brought.

 

If you come back after 2 or 3 days and he is STILL going into it, you leave for a week. Then a month. Then you tell him his actions are unacceptable and you are now questioning whether you can stay with him. That he has to make a choice - value you and vow to stop the abuse or lose you.

 

If this is going to become a brouhaha, do NOT stay in the house; this may be the point where you need to take a stand - stop or lose me. Whatever you do, do NOT stay in the house if he seems about to corner you or hit you.

 

Now, I am not saying that the first time you do this - walk away - it will turn into WWIII. It won't, not usually. Usually, you will gradually work your way up to standing up for yourself this way.

 

But if he follows you to the next room, do NOT let it end there. Do NOT just accept that. Keep moving. And leave the house if you have to. If you don't, you are just cementing in his mind that you are a doormat, to be stomped on.

 

You have to make a choice. Why not today?

[turnera]

I will stand up for myself during an argument, but I don't say hurtful things to h. He will say hurtful things to me. After he yells I do get quiet and depressed. We never usually actually deal with the problem. The bad thing is, if he's angry at one of the kids I feel like I get blamed. It's like Me and the kids are one entity, if he's mad at one he's mad at all. I'm pretty tired of it. I think the same thing. Maybe it would be better to be on my own.

Yes, it would.

 

More importantly, if you leave him, you will SAVE YOUR CHILDREN from growing up to be abusers or abuse victims. They WILL become one of you. And right now, those are their only two choices.

[turnera]

Sometimes I think I'd be better off single but I'm worried I'd be lonely. IDK.

There are hundreds of thousands of men out there within hours of you who are DYING to find a good woman to be married to, who they can treat respectfully, honorably, and who will NEVER yell at you, put you down, block your access from a room, or make you fear for your safety.

[Babs22]

Yes, it would.

 

More importantly, if you leave him, you will SAVE YOUR CHILDREN from growing up to be abusers or abuse victims. They WILL become one of you. And right now, those are their only two choices.

 

Thanks Turnera, I don't feel like a victim. I consider myself pretty strong. I don't back down, but i don't get into a shouting match. I state my business, but remain under control. He doesn't like this. He is Asian and was raised in Asia. I see how his sisters and mom are and know this is foreign to him to have a woman stand up for themselves. He expects me to just cave and I don't. I stand up for what I believe. The bad example we are showing our kids is that we don't know how to handle conflict. I tend to be a conflict avoider, but when it comes up, I don't just back down. In the end I'm quiet because I don't want to talk to him anymore. I do have my boundaries, and would never let him lay a finger on me, and he hasn't.

My boys are 17 and 20. Pretty sure the pattern has been set. Neither one wants to be like their dad, doesn't mean it won't happen.

[turnera]

You're strong, yet you get quiet and depressed?

[Babs22]

[QUOTE=Brigit;6376615]I try but he follows me and blocks my access to escape and continues to yell. My mom said next time he does this I should just grab the dog and go to her house but I'm not sure if that would piss him off more. If it's daytime in the spring or summer I tell him I want to go hang out in the shed and listen to Echkart Tolle for a while depending upon how angry he is and how much he wants to yell will determine if he lets me go.

In the end he feels that it's my fault that he yells because if he tells me something in a softer voice and I don't like it or agree with it he gets frustrated and therefore yells. But sometimes I don't agree with him and I'm going to voice my opinion.

 

Brigit,

 

Brigit, this should not be happening this way. Look at the parts of your statement that I put in bold. He should not be blocking you from going where you want to go. You should be allowed to leave without worrying if you will piss him off. Your mom's suggestion to leave the house is a good one. It would give him time to chill and think about how wrong it is to yell at you. The part where you said that depending on how much he wants to yell, will determine if "he will let you go".????? This is really wrong on many levels. He should not be controlling where you go or what you do, ever. This does sound abusive to me. Even when my husband yells, I know I can get up and leave any time I want. I don't fear him getting more pissed off. And he wouldn't dare block my way.

The final statement, "in the end, he feels that it's my fault when he yells", is such bull and blaming the victim. He is the only one who can control him, no one is making him do anything. I feel bad for you. It is no wonder you are depressed. If he will not go to counseling to try to fix some of these behaviors, I really think you should leave. Please take care of you first. Do not let anyone treat you this way.

[turnera]

Ask these questions to see if you are being abused:

 

Humiliation, degradation, discounting, negating. judging, criticizing:

Does anyone make fun of you or put you down in front of others?

Do they tease you, use sarcasm as a way to put you down or degrade you?

When you complain do they say that “it was just a joke” and that you are too sensitive?

Do they tell you that your opinion or feelings are “wrong?”

Does anyone regularly ridicule, dismiss, disregard your opinions, thoughts, suggestions, and feelings?

Domination, control, and shame:

Do you feel that the person treats you like a child?

Do they constantly correct or chastise you because your behavior is “inappropriate?”

Do you feel you must “get permission” before going somewhere or before making even small decisions?

Do they control your spending?

Do they treat you as though you are inferior to them?

Do they make you feel as though they are always right?

Do they remind you of your shortcomings?

Do they belittle your accomplishments, your aspirations, your plans or even who you are?

Do they give disapproving, dismissive, contemptuous, or condescending looks, comments, and behavior?

Accusing and blaming, trivial and unreasonable demands or expectations, denies own shortcomings:

Do they accuse you of something contrived in their own minds when you know it isn’t true?

Are they unable to laugh at themselves?

Are they extremely sensitive when it comes to others making fun of them or making any kind of comment that seems to show a lack of respect?

Do they have trouble apologizing?

Do they make excuses for their behavior or tend to blame others or circumstances for their mistakes?

Do they call you names or label you?

Do they blame you for their problems or unhappiness?

Do they continually have “boundary violations” and disrespect your valid requests?

Emotional distancing and the “silent treatment,” isolation, emotional abandonment or neglect:

Do they use pouting, withdrawal or withholding attention or affection?

Do they not want to meet the basic needs or use neglect or abandonment as punishment?

Do they play the victim to deflect blame onto you instead of taking responsibility for their actions and attitudes?

Do they not notice or care how you feel?

Do they not show empathy or ask questions to gather information?

Codependence and enmeshment:

Does anyone treat you not as a separate person but instead as an extension of themselves?

Do they not protect your personal boundaries and share information that you have not approved?

Do they disrespect your requests and do what they think is best for you?

Do they require continual contact and haven’t developed a healthy support network among their own peers?

Signs of Emotional Abuse | World of Psychology

[Brigit]

Ok, then, here is my routine I tell every woman in your situation.

 

This is a boundary/consequence issue. He does it because you have NO boundary about being abused and you give out NO consequence for someone doing it. With an abusive man, you start small, and work your way up to bigger consequences. Now, a consequence is NOT something you do to HIM. It is something that you do around YOU, to protect you.

 

In this instance, your boundary needs to be 'nobody yells at me/blocks me leaving/is nasty.' A typical - and doable - consequences that you then enact if he DOES any of these things is to leave the room.

 

I tell women to start small - leave the room. You say 'please don't yell at me, I don't deserve to be yelled at' and you leave for 20 minutes; if when you come back in the room he yells again, you leave again. If he follows you to another room, you leave THAT room. By then, you should have picked up your wallet and the car keys, just in case. If he follows you to another room and continues to yell, you leave the house and go for a walk for 30-60 minutes. If he's just waiting to start in on you again by then, you go to the car and leave. Go for a drive. Come back in a couple hours. If you feel safe enough, include "I don't deserve to be yelled at" before you leave.

 

If he's still yelling when you come home, if it's safe, you grab some overnight stuff, and go spend the night at a hotel or a relative's/friend's house. If it's not safe to be in the house by then, you just LEAVE.

 

Hopefully, he has learned by now that you won't PARTICIPATE in his abuse. If he tries to pick it up again when you come home the next day, you get some MORE stuff and leave for 2 or 3 days. Let him cool his heels. Let him sit there, alone, and see what his actions brought.

 

 

He's very clever with his yelling. He'll yell about what he feels is right and he'll yell at me about what I'm thinking he'll say things like "I know this is going round and round in your head." I admit I can be annoying but I really can't take the yelling any more it's making me very tired. I'm going to try your techniques.

[Brigit]

I will stand up for myself during an argument, but I don't say hurtful things to h. He will say hurtful things to me. After he yells I do get quiet and depressed. We never usually actually deal with the problem. The bad thing is, if he's angry at one of the kids I feel like I get blamed. It's like Me and the kids are one entity, if he's mad at one he's mad at all. I'm pretty tired of it. I think the same thing. Maybe it would be better to be on my own.

 

It's exhausting to have someone yell at you and no matter what you say you can't make them stop. I'll say "OK, I understand. Let's not talk about this anymore." And he'll say "Do you? Am I gonna wake up tomorrow and hear about this again??? I don't want to talk about this tomorrow? I know you. It goes round and round in your head!" Then I might bite and say my side of the story and he'll begin yelling again. I'm not saying I'm always right but even if I'm wrong I still shouldn't be yelled at repeatedly.

[Brigit]

Emotional distancing and the “silent treatment,” isolation, emotional abandonment or neglect:

Do they use pouting, withdrawal or withholding attention or affection?

 

Signs of Emotional Abuse | World of Psychology

 

 

I admit to doing the above after he yells at me. I get very silent. I isolate and I try not to get too close to him and I'm very cold. Sometimes I unplug my phone as I stated earlier in this thread. I KNOW that anything I say can and will be held against me so being silent and isolating is sometimes my only bit of control.

[Babs22]

I admit to doing the above after he yells at me. I get very silent. I isolate and I try not to get too close to him and I'm very cold. Sometimes I unplug my phone as I stated earlier in this thread. I KNOW that anything I say can and will be held against me so being silent and isolating is sometimes my only bit of control.

 

Brigit, When you cannot be a part of the conversation because they are yelling so hard, they can't hear what you have to say, nor do they care to hear it, what other choice do you have? Staying in an argument with this kind of person, gets you absolutely nowhere. Being silent is almost the only way you have to show that you do not appreciate being yelled at. I don't feel like you are abusive, but you are responding to the abusive behavior the only way you know how. What are you supposed to do, act like everything is okay after they went on a tirade and wouldn't stop even when you ask them to? Has this been like this all through your marriage? My heart goes out to you.

[turnera]

He's very clever with his yelling. He'll yell about what he feels is right and he'll yell at me about what I'm thinking he'll say things like "I know this is going round and round in your head."

So? Does it make it ok?

[turnera]

I admit to doing the above after he yells at me. I get very silent. I isolate and I try not to get too close to him and I'm very cold. Sometimes I unplug my phone as I stated earlier in this thread. I KNOW that anything I say can and will be held against me so being silent and isolating is sometimes my only bit of control.

Brigit, what YOU do is COMPLETELY different from what the abuser does. YOU are reacting, to PROTECT yourself. You don't start it. Don't go believing him when he says it's YOUR fault. If he wasn't abusing you, you'd have no REASON to go silent. If he wasn't abusing you, you'd be a full-blooded, happy, healthy, LOVING and GIVING wife. Instead, you live day to day in fear of the next explosion, walking on eggshells, watching every single word you say and thing you to, to first analyze if it will set him off.

 

BIG difference.

[Zenstudent]

Brigit, what YOU do is COMPLETELY different from what the abuser does. YOU are reacting, to PROTECT yourself. You don't start it. Don't go believing him when he says it's YOUR fault. If he wasn't abusing you, you'd have no REASON to go silent. If he wasn't abusing you, you'd be a full-blooded, happy, healthy, LOVING and GIVING wife. Instead, you live day to day in fear of the next explosion, walking on eggshells, watching every single word you say and thing you to, to first analyze if it will set him off.

 

BIG difference.

A lot of assumptions, don't you think? Your so called abuser wouldn't be in the wrong if his yelling was a reaction to something the op did?

[Brigit]

Brigit, When you cannot be a part of the conversation because they are yelling so hard, they can't hear what you have to say, nor do they care to hear it, what other choice do you have? Staying in an argument with this kind of person, gets you absolutely nowhere. Being silent is almost the only way you have to show that you do not appreciate being yelled at. I don't feel like you are abusive, but you are responding to the abusive behavior the only way you know how. What are you supposed to do, act like everything is okay after they went on a tirade and wouldn't stop even when you ask them to? Has this been like this all through your marriage? My heart goes out to you.

 

He's always been like this so it's not like I didn't know what I was getting. I'm just tired now.

[Brigit]

Brigit, what YOU do is COMPLETELY different from what the abuser does. YOU are reacting, to PROTECT yourself. You don't start it. Don't go believing him when he says it's YOUR fault. If he wasn't abusing you, you'd have no REASON to go silent. If he wasn't abusing you, you'd be a full-blooded, happy, healthy, LOVING and GIVING wife. Instead, you live day to day in fear of the next explosion, walking on eggshells, watching every single word you say and thing you to, to first analyze if it will set him off.

 

BIG difference.

 

You're right. I just made coffee and I was really quiet because I don't want to wake him up. Maybe I'll say something that will make him yell today? It's the weekend so that means I have two full days with him. I have a lot of activities planned today so we can focus on tasks.

[Brigit]

A lot of assumptions, don't you think? Your so called abuser wouldn't be in the wrong if his yelling was a reaction to something the op did?

 

I'm not saying I'm perfect. I do say things he doesn't like but even if I'm wrong in what I'm saying it doesn't give him the right to go around yelling at me.

[Babs22]

A lot of assumptions, don't you think? Your so called abuser wouldn't be in the wrong if his yelling was a reaction to something the op did?

 

The OP indicated this has been his pattern the whole marriage. I think that yelling is always wrong, but what could she have possibly done to deserve getting yelled at? Why should she possibly deserve to have her way blocked if she tries to leave the room or waiting for her H to decide if he is done yelling so he allows her to leave? Does this sound like normal behavior for a H?? Does this sound like normal behavior to treat anyone? I wouldn't even treat my child this way. It is abusive behavior, make no doubt about it. I have experienced yelling from my H, but when I ask him to lower his voice, he does. If I walk away, he has never blocked me or refused to let me go into another room. I have never felt like I had to wait for him to "let me go". The OP also said that her H blames her for his yelling. It is NOT her fault that he yells. No one can make someone else start yelling. If I am yelling it is because that is how I chose to respond to a situation. IMO if someone is yelling, including myself, that person has lost control.

 

So, the "so called abuser" would still be in the wrong even if his yelling was the reaction to something the OP did.

 

Many people who are in abusive relationships are often made to feel that they somehow are responsible for the abusive behavior. If only she didn't say or do things that caused the abusive behavior, it wouldn't have happened. If only she were a better wife, if only she didn't say stupid things, then he wouldn't act this way. Why do you think people stay in abusive relationships? They think they are somehow responsible for the behavior, it is somehow their fault. They feel like to end the abuse they need only fix themselves. Sad

[Zenstudent]

Well, it's easy then. I'm not after OP here.

 

Turnera outlined abusive behaviour, which OP herself said she was guilty of.

 

So, him yelling doesn't give her the right to give him the silent treatment either - it was the double standard I went after.

 

I totally agree that yelling isn't the right way to react, I also understand the anger, frustrations and sense of powerlessness when you learn about your partners sexual interactions with other people outside the relationship - and I didn't see OP mention anywhere that he didn't care.

 

If the husband is as abusive that you guys would like to paint him - it would be very wise for OP to just divorce him, get out of the house before things get even worse. You don't HAVE to stay in a highly abusive environment, you know.

 

Added benefit, you don't have to fight the urge to contact OM anymore, as a single, you can do whatever you want, with whomever you wanna do it with. It's a double win situation.

[Zenstudent]

I'm not saying I'm perfect. I do say things he doesn't like but even if I'm wrong in what I'm saying it doesn't give him the right to go around yelling at me.

 

I'm not perfect either, and I didn't say your husband was.