Still Struggling

[Brigit]

Many people who are in abusive relationships are often made to feel that they somehow are responsible for the abusive behavior. If only she didn't say or do things that caused the abusive behavior, it wouldn't have happened. If only she were a better wife, if only she didn't say stupid things, then he wouldn't act this way. Why do you think people stay in abusive relationships? They think they are somehow responsible for the behavior, it is somehow their fault. They feel like to end the abuse they need only fix themselves. Sad

 

 

You've described it perfectly.

[turnera]

Turnera outlined abusive behaviour, which OP herself said she was guilty of.

 

So, him yelling doesn't give her the right to give him the silent treatment either - it was the double standard I went after.

 

I totally agree that yelling isn't the right way to react, I also understand the anger, frustrations and sense of powerlessness when you learn about your partners sexual interactions with other people outside the relationship - and I didn't see OP mention anywhere that he didn't care.

 

If the husband is as abusive that you guys would like to paint him - it would be very wise for OP to just divorce him, get out of the house before things get even worse. You don't HAVE to stay in a highly abusive environment, you know.

 

Added benefit, you don't have to fight the urge to contact OM anymore, as a single, you can do whatever you want, with whomever you wanna do it with. It's a double win situation.

Unfortunately, you seem to know next to nothing about the psychological mindset of an abuse victim. Nearly every single abuse victim GOES SILENT when being abused, so as to avoid triggering another round of abuse. It is self-protection. It is learned from the abuse. It is human nature. And IT IS NOT ABUSE.

 

Abuse victims also find it incredibly hard to LEAVE the abuser because one of the most typical outcomes of being abused is to lose your self worth, your ability to trust your own decisions, and your belief that you deserve anything better. Most abuse victims try 7 or 8 times to leave the abuser and RETURN, because the abuser will change the abuse wheel back over to the promises, tears, and roses part of the cycle, and convince her she can once again have the NICE guy she thought she married. And once she comes back home, he drops that act and becomes the abuser again. And by coming back, she has just lost another 10% of her self esteem, self love, self worth.

 

Abuse victims usually don't leave for good until the abuser does something so egregiously horrific that she can't pretend it will get better any more.

[Zenstudent]

Unfortunately, you seem to know next to nothing about the psychological mindset of an abuse victim. Nearly every single abuse victim GOES SILENT when being abused, so as to avoid triggering another round of abuse. It is self-protection. It is learned from the abuse. It is human nature. And IT IS NOT ABUSE.

 

Abuse victims also find it incredibly hard to LEAVE the abuser because one of the most typical outcomes of being abused is to lose your self worth, your ability to trust your own decisions, and your belief that you deserve anything better. Most abuse victims try 7 or 8 times to leave the abuser and RETURN, because the abuser will change the abuse wheel back over to the promises, tears, and roses part of the cycle, and convince her she can once again have the NICE guy she thought she married. And once she comes back home, he drops that act and becomes the abuser again. And by coming back, she has just lost another 10% of her self esteem, self love, self worth.

 

Abuse victims usually don't leave for good until the abuser does something so egregiously horrific that she can't pretend it will get better any more.

 

And unfortunately, you don't seem to know anything about me. I left my family for good as a young boy, due to abuse.

 

I stand by what I said, whether you think I know nothing about anything or not. If the husband is that abusive, I'll support OP in leaving him. I don't think it does her any good to continue the relationship to OM, or to withdraw, on top of everything else - that might make things even worse with her husband.

[turnera]

She DID discontinue the affair.

 

The withdrawal is a direct RESPONSE to his abuse. If he stops treating her like crap, she'll stop withdrawing.

 

Problem solved.

[Zenstudent]

IIRC, she did contact OM just 2 days ago, no? Even called him BF.

[autumnnight]

A lot of assumptions, don't you think? Your so called abuser wouldn't be in the wrong if his yelling was a reaction to something the op did?

 

The yelling predates the A by years. I understand we all like to believe everything a WS receives is deserved because they cheated....but no. Yelling at her for years is not acceptable. Sorry.

[autumnnight]

Well, it's easy then. I'm not after OP here.

 

Turnera outlined abusive behaviour, which OP herself said she was guilty of.

 

So, him yelling doesn't give her the right to give him the silent treatment either - it was the double standard I went after.

 

I totally agree that yelling isn't the right way to react, I also understand the anger, frustrations and sense of powerlessness when you learn about your partners sexual interactions with other people outside the relationship - and I didn't see OP mention anywhere that he didn't care.

 

If the husband is as abusive that you guys would like to paint him - it would be very wise for OP to just divorce him, get out of the house before things get even worse. You don't HAVE to stay in a highly abusive environment, you know.

 

Added benefit, you don't have to fight the urge to contact OM anymore, as a single, you can do whatever you want, with whomever you wanna do it with. It's a double win situation.

 

So tell us....if she is not to be quiet while he is yelling at her because that is a double standard....what SHOULD she do?

 

An A doesn't absolve a BH of all wrongdoing. Period.

[Zenstudent]

So tell us....if she is not to be quiet while he is yelling at her because that is a double standard....what SHOULD she do?

 

An A doesn't absolve a BH of all wrongdoing. Period.

 

If you missed my opinion on what she should do, I'm sorry, I don't think I can spell it out more, than I did in my latest posts - if it's still unclear, I obviously failed. She should leave him if he is that abusive, what in this statement is hard to understand?

[Babs22]

And unfortunately, you don't seem to know anything about me. I left my family for good as a young boy, due to abuse.

 

I stand by what I said, whether you think I know nothing about anything or not. If the husband is that abusive, I'll support OP in leaving him. I don't think it does her any good to continue the relationship to OM, or to withdraw, on top of everything else - that might make things even worse with her husband.

 

Zen, I am sorry that you suffered abuse at such a young age. It did take courage to walk away and I hope you have healed from that. You did not do anything to provoke or deserve that abuse anymore than Brigit has done anything to provoke or deserve the abuse directed at her. I asked her if her H had always been this way, and she said yes, so his yelling was not caused by her A. I do think that, if this is how he was treating her, her A was her way to escape from the abuse and try to gain some validation. That does not make it right, but might explain why it happened.

 

I only see this working if her H is willing to go to IC for him to learn new ways of coping with his anger/yelling and if they can go to MC together to find a new way of interacting with each other. Currently, they are both set in their ways, he yells, she withdraws, and that is going to be a hard cycle to break if it can be done at all. Is her marriage important enough for Brigit to try to work on this or is she just tired of it? Is her H even open to IC and MC? I don't think he recognizes the damage he does with his yelling, he blames her for it. He would first have to recognize that treating her this way is wrong and that his behavior is not her fault.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Babs22

[autumnnight]

If you missed my opinion on what she should do, I'm sorry, I don't think I can spell it out more, than I did in my latest posts - if it's still unclear, I obviously failed. She should leave him if he is that abusive, what in this statement is hard to understand?

 

Um....most of us do not have our bags packed at all times.

 

Listen closely:

 

They are in the den. He is yelling. When she tries to leave the room, he blocks her access (did ya miss that nugget?). So what does she do not BESIDES be quiet? Kiss him? Try to reason? Make him a sandwich.

 

Telling her getting quiet in THAT situation is a double standard is only the kind of a response a BH who cannot see anything but the A would say, quite frankly.

[Zenstudent]

Um....most of us do not have our bags packed at all times.

 

Listen closely:

 

They are in the den. He is yelling. When she tries to leave the room, he blocks her access (did ya miss that nugget?). So what does she do not BESIDES be quiet? Kiss him? Try to reason? Make him a sandwich.

 

Telling her getting quiet in THAT situation is a double standard is only the kind of a response a BH who cannot see anything but the A would say, quite frankly.

 

I do listen closely, I even catched your sarcasm and the little dig in your last paragraph, nice.

 

So what you're saying is, that she is absolutely powerless? No options available at all? She has to suffer deeply in silence for the rest of her life - waiting for a miracle to happen with her husband??

 

Sorry, I don't buy that. What I actually DID learn from being a betrayed husband is, that until you leave the victim role, you are nothing but a, well, victim. And I know it's hard to change that perspective, very hard, but it's possible and doable.

 

And if it really is an abusive environment at OP's home, and even if her bags aren't packed all the time, she needs to take action and leave. And no one else has the power to do that for her but herself. I'll support in that.

[autumnnight]

I do listen closely, I even catched your sarcasm and the little dig in your last paragraph, nice.

 

So what you're saying is, that she is absolutely powerless? No options available at all? She has to suffer deeply in silence for the rest of her life - waiting for a miracle to happen with her husband??

 

Sorry, I don't buy that. What I actually DID learn from being a betrayed husband is, that until you leave the victim role, you are nothing but a, well, victim. And I know it's hard to change that perspective, very hard, but it's possible and doable.

 

And if it really is an abusive environment at OP's home, and even if her bags aren't packed all the time, she needs to take action and leave. And no one else has the power to do that for her but herself. I'll support in that.

 

Nope, and no one who read the scenario above objectively would think I meant that.

 

I meant that leaving should be the ultimate goal - IMO - for anyone who is being abused. But that does not mean you can just walk out the door the moment it happens (which she couldn't do because of him blocking the door anyway). So in the meantime, you have to find a way to cope and survive.

 

Having an A is absolutely and always wrong.

 

But, in this case, becoming quiet WHILE someone is yelling at you is not returning abuse. Now, if she refused to speak to him at all for a week, THAT is a silent treatment. Simply choosing not to talk to someone WHILE they are yelling is not a double standard.

 

All or nothing is almost never an accurate perception of anything.

[Brigit]

Nope, and no one who read the scenario above objectively would think I meant that.

 

I meant that leaving should be the ultimate goal - IMO - for anyone who is being abused. But that does not mean you can just walk out the door the moment it happens (which she couldn't do because of him blocking the door anyway). So in the meantime, you have to find a way to cope and survive.

 

Having an A is absolutely and always wrong.

 

But, in this case, becoming quiet WHILE someone is yelling at you is not returning abuse. Now, if she refused to speak to him at all for a week, THAT is a silent treatment. Simply choosing not to talk to someone WHILE they are yelling is not a double standard.

 

All or nothing is almost never an accurate perception of anything.

 

When my husband is yelling the only thing I can do is to become silent. Like I mentioned I do try to get away from him but he follows me. If it's the middle of the night realistically I'm not going to leave the house. If it's during the day then I will try to get to the car keys if he doesn't block my access.

 

He has never hit me and I'm sure he won't. He has broken stuff in the house but he hasn't done that in a long time.

 

Leaving a marriage isn't easy. For one everything I have is tied together with my husband. I haven't worked full-time since 2007 and my part time jobs have only been receptionist work. Financially, I'm unable to support myself at this time.

 

And the thing about my husband is that he's not always horrible. Today, he was very nice and we had a decent time. I do need to stop contacting the OM. I run to him for support but he doesn't want to be my cyber boyfriend he wants me to leave my husband and be my real life boyfriend. But that isn't realistic and he knows even if I did divorce my husband I probably wouldn't end up with him. I cling to my cyber boyfriend as a way to cope with pain and it isn't right or healthy but when your going thru a downward spiral and thinking of ending your life contacting a cyber boyfriend doesn't seem so harmful when compared to death. I need to get my head together so I can make well thought out decisions. Right now I'm still pretty messed up.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Brigit

[turnera]

So change your life.

 

Stop being financially dependent on him.

[autumnnight]

So change your life.

 

Stop being financially dependent on him.

 

I could be wrong, but I think that's what she's trying to do.

[Brigit]

So change your life.

 

Stop being financially dependent on him.

 

It's not that easy.

[Zenstudent]

It's not that easy.

 

Maybe not, don't you want advice or support for any path but the easy ones?

[Brigit]

Maybe not, don't you want advice or support for any path but the easy ones?

 

I want advice for the realistic paths.

[Zenstudent]

How is it not realistic to reach some level of independence?

[turnera]

Reminds me of a story I heard once about a woman in her 30s who told her friend she had really always wanted to be a doctor. Her friend said to go for it! The woman said 'but if I do, it's 15 years of school, and I'll be a doctor who's 50 years old!' Her friend said, 'so if you don't go to med school, you'll still be a 50 year old, you just won't be doing what you love.'

 

Every day you sit there in that situation without taking SOME step toward financial independence is a day you're dooming you and your family. Do you want to look back at yourself a year from now, in the same situation, because you DIDN'T work on becoming financially independent?

 

I just set up a bookoo account last night and posted a bunch of stuff for sale. Every sale I make is getting me out of debt. There are people on there who are making a living just buying garage sale items and selling them, for a tiny fee to join. No job, no training, just posting and selling.

 

I'm out of work, but I'm earning thousands of dollars on the side by finding online editing jobs. From my house.

 

7-11, Jack in the Box...they'll take anyone.

 

No excuses.

[Babs22]

Reminds me of a story I heard once about a woman in her 30s who told her friend she had really always wanted to be a doctor. Her friend said to go for it! The woman said 'but if I do, it's 15 years of school, and I'll be a doctor who's 50 years old!' Her friend said, 'so if you don't go to med school, you'll still be a 50 year old, you just won't be doing what you love.'

Every day you sit there in that situation without taking SOME step toward financial independence is a day you're dooming you and your family. Do you want to look back at yourself a year from now, in the same situation, because you DIDN'T work on becoming financially independent?

 

I just set up a bookoo account last night and posted a bunch of stuff for sale. Every sale I make is getting me out of debt. There are people on there who are making a living just buying garage sale items and selling them, for a tiny fee to join. No job, no training, just posting and selling.

 

I'm out of work, but I'm earning thousands of dollars on the side by finding online editing jobs. From my house.

 

7-11, Jack in the Box...they'll take anyone.

 

No excuses.

 

Brigit,

turnera just gave some good examples of things that might work, but the general message is correct. Change is hard and scary, there is no denying that. I think even if you took a basic low level job it could help you in many ways. It can help you gain some financial independence, but it can also provide you with some self-worth and pride. I feel like those things have been taken away from you in this relationship. You will begin to value yourself again and see that you can do things for yourself. I think it could help you with your depression and negative thoughts. You will meet new people and make new friends. It might be hard to adjust to having a schedule everyday and learning how to do something new, but you will feel good that you are doing something for you. Open your own savings account if you don't have one and start saving.

 

I know it is easy for me to say to do this, it is much harder for you to step forward and do it. I believe in you and think you don't give yourself enough credit for the type of job you could do. Do you have any training? If not, is there a way to get some training? A nearby vocational school? Isn't there something you have always wanted to do? Maybe, you might not be able to do that specific job, but you could work someplace in that field. What is it you would like to do? Also, I haven't heard you speak of children, do you have kids, that does make everything scarier. If it is only you, you really do need to try to find a job. Do it for you.

 

I am going to change tunera's quote from above slightly.

 

Every day you sit there in that situation without taking SOME step toward financial independence is a day you did not take advantage of doing something positive for you!

[Brigit]

Brigit,

turnera just gave some good examples of things that might work, but the general message is correct. Change is hard and scary, there is no denying that. I think even if you took a basic low level job it could help you in many ways. It can help you gain some financial independence, but it can also provide you with some self-worth and pride. I feel like those things have been taken away from you in this relationship. You will begin to value yourself again and see that you can do things for yourself. I think it could help you with your depression and negative thoughts. You will meet new people and make new friends. It might be hard to adjust to having a schedule everyday and learning how to do something new, but you will feel good that you are doing something for you. Open your own savings account if you don't have one and start saving.

 

I know it is easy for me to say to do this, it is much harder for you to step forward and do it. I believe in you and think you don't give yourself enough credit for the type of job you could do. Do you have any training? If not, is there a way to get some training? A nearby vocational school? Isn't there something you have always wanted to do? Maybe, you might not be able to do that specific job, but you could work someplace in that field. What is it you would like to do? Also, I haven't heard you speak of children, do you have kids, that does make everything scarier. If it is only you, you really do need to try to find a job. Do it for you.

 

I am going to change tunera's quote from above slightly.

 

Every day you sit there in that situation without taking SOME step toward financial independence is a day you did not take advantage of doing something positive for you!

 

Becoming financially independent is good advice. Truth is because of my mental issues I have a very spotty work history. I have problems keeping a job so it's a sensitive subject for me. I've been there done that so many, many, many, times. I know it sounds like I'm wallowing in self-pity but I'm just trying to figure out realistic goals for myself and my future.

[autumnnight]

How is it not realistic to reach some level of independence?

 

The keyword here is REACH

 

If you are NOT there, then it takes time to REACH independence. Time. Not this afternoon, not tomorrow.

 

So I will ask again, while the OP is REACHING independence, what does she do when he begins to yell in her face and black her path?

[autumnnight]

Becoming financially independent is good advice. Truth is because of my mental issues I have a very spotty work history. I have problems keeping a job so it's a sensitive subject for me. I've been there done that so many, many, many, times. I know it sounds like I'm wallowing in self-pity but I'm just trying to figure out realistic goals for myself and my future.

 

I understand exactly what you are saying, brigit. I would start today taking whatever small steps you can, even if it is looking into SSI. Go at a pace you can handle. It is very easy for us to sit at our computers and dole out "dot its," and some of us don't even take our OWN advice (I've been guilty of that). In the meantime, stay away from any semblance of contact with OM and develop a plan for dealing with the yelling and throwing things.

[Babs22]

Becoming financially independent is good advice. Truth is because of my mental issues I have a very spotty work history. I have problems keeping a job so it's a sensitive subject for me. I've been there done that so many, many, many, times. I know it sounds like I'm wallowing in self-pity but I'm just trying to figure out realistic goals for myself and my future.

 

Ok. I understand that, better than most probably would. My son is 17 and diagnosed with bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder, anxiety and fibromyalgia. I often wonder what he will be able to do. He is on medication, but even with that, can only attend school half days mostly because of the fibro. He is in constant pain. So far the medication is only helping his depression and pain slightly. I may be supporting him the rest of his life. He does like musical theater and is doing a show this summer. I am hoping he will go to college, since that is much more flexible as far as scheduling things, after that, I don't know.

 

So I do understand people dealing with mental illness. I thought I understood it before my son started having symptoms, but I really had no clue. I don't think anyone can fully understand it unless they have it or live with it. That being said, your husbands way of dealing with you is not helping. You mentioned seeing a psychiatrist, that is good, what does he/she have to say about your marriage and you finding work? Is a part time job, doing something low stress possible? Is there something you could do from home? I don't know what your diagnosis is, if you have major social anxiety, having a job could be difficult. Maybe you could work with animals. They don't complain so much! By the way, when this happened, we got my son a dog and he has been the best thing for him.