"Oh, it's like THAT huh?"

[TrustedthenBusted]

Hey everyone. Been awhile. Hope everyone is doing as well as can be expected. Had a conversation with my wife the other day and I thought I'd share it here for those of you in R who may find yourself in my shoes 4, 5, 6 years after D-Day.

 

It all started when yet another friend in our circle discovered that her husband was cheating. Kids...house...12 years together...all the usual collateral damage.

 

While we were being very supportive and encouraging to the friend, we were of course having our own subliminal conversation through the words we used to console our friend. It's unavoidable. You have to acknowledge the pain of infidelity, even if it's right in front of the person who caused you that same pain once.

 

I said the right things, without saying anything that would be unnecessarily cruel to my listening wife ( nobody knows about our situation, mind you ) and she said all the right things from the perspective of a supportive friend, even though she knows that to me she sounded like the biggest hypocrite on earth.

 

It's ok. This stuff is gonna happen, and we've been through the drill a few times now.

 

 

Anyway, one of the things our friend said was she felt angry, wanted revenge and justified it by thinking " Oh...it's like THAT huh? Fine. Two can play that game." We just told her we understood those feelings, and assured her that no good can come from her seeking revenge. I ALMOST wanted to just tell her that we had been through infidelity ourselves...but I stopped short.

 

After the friend left, my wife asked me " Do you ever still feel that way? That it's 'like THAT?' "

 

And I was honest. I told her that I don't want to get any revenge or have an affair, but the reality is... "sort of." Yeah, it's "sort of" like that. I mean when one person shows another person in no uncertain terms that they will risk your health, your home, you relationship with your children, and of course your marriage, all for some meaningless fling....yah....it's like that.

 

And as much as I've forgiven, and moved on with our life together, I really don't think it will ever NOT be like that to some extent. You just can't put that genie back in the bottle. Not suggesting she will ever do it again.... but rather accepting the reality that it's certainly not beyond her capability.

 

She was sad but understanding. Said she felt terrible that she did this to our relationship. And wondered aloud if I would ever trust her completely again.

 

I just told her that all I can do is hope that she will communicate with me and not risk my entire future again. And that I believe she will. So if that is what she means by trust, than I guess so.

 

So there you have it. Just a day in the life. 6 years ago I used to appreciate the people who would come back here and share stuff like this, so I figured I'd do the same.

[Sub]

I'm very much in a similar place, and my W and I have had similar conversations. I never considered revenge, but there is/was a certain amount of curiosity about how she could choose that route. And if I would ever understand "how" without doing it myself. Either way, I do trust her and have told her as much. The casualty of it all, though, is that if it were to happen again, I wouldn't be surprised. Like you said:"certainly not beyond her capability." Since then, I feel like it's everywhere now: friends, family, friends of friends. So it's probably not beyond anyone's capability.

[BetrayedH]

I didn't just think about going there. I went there.

 

Admittedly, it was exciting in the moment. Then it just makes you feel like sh*t. And if you want to take a giant crap on your marriage and personal self-esteem, like your WS did, then go for it.

 

Although I would change quite a few decisions that I made post Dday, I have few real regrets. My RA is one of them.

[VeryBrokenMan]

Thanks for posting so long after recovering.

 

It's odd but I think accepting that it's in her makeup and accepting that she might cheat again allows me much peace of mind. Because I know that if there is a next time I won't be surprised as Sub said. And I also know that I will be MUCH more prepared to deal with it and so much more informed. It will be like ripping off a band-aid and I'll just go cold turkey without her in my life. Prior to her affair I had never even given any thought to what it would mean to our lives or how badly it would damage us as a couple and individually. No one escapes whole and I had no idea how it changes your entire thinking about life and relationships. Being cheated on is almost something that everyone should experience early in life to know what it means to go through it and how it shapes everything from then on. I'm not sure that some cheaters would ever cheat had they felt the type of pain that is involved.

[nightmare01]

I think that in a sense an affair creates an imbalance in the relationship. One of us kept to our vows, the other didn't - they went out and had experiences that changed them and the relationship, and we did not.

 

My WW once said that she "sort of" wished I would go out and have a ONS to even things up... she had a 8 year EA/PA.. and a ONS evens things out?

 

I said that I wouldn't do that because I had more respect for myself than that. That I just couldn't do it because .. well I couldn't because it would just feel wrong.

 

I think a RA would not balance the relationship. Even if I went out hand had the same sort of affair my WW did. It wouldn't balance anything, and instead it would destroy everything IMO.

 

But there is a sense of the "unfairness" of it, isn't there? How was it fair that my WW went out and had lots of sex and all kinds of romantic things with some other guy? and she did this while I was sitting at home taking care of our kids and managing our animals and the household.

 

So it's just unfair - but I don't think there's anyway to even things out and make it fair again.

[Popsicle]

You two are willingly in a prison together.

[Noirek]

Hey everyone. Been awhile. Hope everyone is doing as well as can be expected. Had a conversation with my wife the other day and I thought I'd share it here for those of you in R who may find yourself in my shoes 4, 5, 6 years after D-Day.

 

It all started when yet another friend in our circle discovered that her husband was cheating. Kids...house...12 years together...all the usual collateral damage.

 

While we were being very supportive and encouraging to the friend, we were of course having our own subliminal conversation through the words we used to console our friend. It's unavoidable. You have to acknowledge the pain of infidelity, even if it's right in front of the person who caused you that same pain once.

 

I said the right things, without saying anything that would be unnecessarily cruel to my listening wife ( nobody knows about our situation, mind you ) and she said all the right things from the perspective of a supportive friend, even though she knows that to me she sounded like the biggest hypocrite on earth.

 

It's ok. This stuff is gonna happen, and we've been through the drill a few times now.

 

 

Anyway, one of the things our friend said was she felt angry, wanted revenge and justified it by thinking " Oh...it's like THAT huh? Fine. Two can play that game." We just told her we understood those feelings, and assured her that no good can come from her seeking revenge. I ALMOST wanted to just tell her that we had been through infidelity ourselves...but I stopped short.

 

After the friend left, my wife asked me " Do you ever still feel that way? That it's 'like THAT?' "

 

And I was honest. I told her that I don't want to get any revenge or have an affair, but the reality is... "sort of." Yeah, it's "sort of" like that. I mean when one person shows another person in no uncertain terms that they will risk your health, your home, you relationship with your children, and of course your marriage, all for some meaningless fling....yah....it's like that.

 

And as much as I've forgiven, and moved on with our life together, I really don't think it will ever NOT be like that to some extent. You just can't put that genie back in the bottle. Not suggesting she will ever do it again.... but rather accepting the reality that it's certainly not beyond her capability.

 

She was sad but understanding. Said she felt terrible that she did this to our relationship. And wondered aloud if I would ever trust her completely again.

 

I just told her that all I can do is hope that she will communicate with me and not risk my entire future again. And that I believe she will. So if that is what she means by trust, than I guess so.

 

So there you have it. Just a day in the life. 6 years ago I used to appreciate the people who would come back here and share stuff like this, so I figured I'd do the same.

 

This is why I often feel hopeless and what is the point. Because it is just like that. What is done cannot be undone. And forgiveness isn't for real. It is just a word we throw around when feel a little less angry

[Noirek]

I think that in a sense an affair creates an imbalance in the relationship. One of us kept to our vows, the other didn't - they went out and had experiences that changed them and the relationship, and we did not.

 

My WW once said that she "sort of" wished I would go out and have a ONS to even things up... she had a 8 year EA/PA.. and a ONS evens things out?

 

I said that I wouldn't do that because I had more respect for myself than that. That I just couldn't do it because .. well I couldn't because it would just feel wrong.

 

I think a RA would not balance the relationship. Even if I went out hand had the same sort of affair my WW did. It wouldn't balance anything, and instead it would destroy everything IMO.

 

But there is a sense of the "unfairness" of it, isn't there? How was it fair that my WW went out and had lots of sex and all kinds of romantic things with some other guy? and she did this while I was sitting at home taking care of our kids and managing our animals and the household.

 

So it's just unfair - but I don't think there's anyway to even things out and make it fair again.

 

You always kept every single one of your vows? All the time?

[autumnnight]

It's always intriguing to me that the same people who stress the importance of keeping vows think that as long as someone else breaks them first, they no longer have to have values either. Either an affair is wrong or it isn't.

[happyman64]

TthenB

 

 

It is not just the fact that you came back and shared.

 

 

It is the fact that you are strong, have high self esteem and still have the compassion for others that your story ® will make a difference for others experiencing infidelity.

 

 

Thank you for sharing...

 

 

HM

[Buckeye2]

And as much as I've forgiven, and moved on with our life together, I really don't think it will ever NOT be like that to some extent. You just can't put that genie back in the bottle. Not suggesting she will ever do it again.... but rather accepting the reality that it's certainly not beyond her capability.

[

 

The casualty of it all, though, is that if it were to happen again, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

I’m all for R but go into it with your eyes open. Some couples seem to think that with time a lot of work they can regain the trust they once had. You can’t unless you have a frontal lobotomy. You couldn’t conceive of something happening and then it did. Now you can conceive of it because you lived through it. How can you ever go completely back?

[Owl6118]

This is why I often feel hopeless and what is the point. Because it is just like that. What is done cannot be undone. And forgiveness isn't for real. It is just a word we throw around when feel a little less angry

 

Interesting how varied reactions can be to the same story.

 

I read in OPs story a narrative about a couple that now communicates well and quite fearlessly even about the most painful things, and who have achieved a combination of acceptance (that what was done, was done) and recommitment (conscious choice to build a living parnership together despite).

 

To me this is profoundly hopeful. Sadness in it, sure, but the sadness comes from the death of innocent reciprocal trust and fidelity. But what happened, happened, and it means their story will never have that again. Rather than howl at the moon for that loss forever, they have through choice and hard work built somthing enduring despite it and after it. I admire that and find hope in it.

[VeryBrokenMan]

This is why I often feel hopeless and what is the point. Because it is just like that. What is done cannot be undone. And forgiveness isn't for real. It is just a word we throw around when feel a little less angry

 

Lot's of truth in that statement.

[truncated]

A question for the op,

 

If your wife has another affair and your marriage ended, do you think that you could ever fully trust someone else, were you to get into a romantic relationship afterwards?

[VeryBrokenMan]

A question for the op,

 

If your wife has another affair and your marriage ended, do you think that you could ever fully trust someone else, were you to get into a romantic relationship afterwards?

 

Not the OP but I for one don't think I could. That is gone forever.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Interesting how varied reactions can be to the same story.

 

I read in OPs story a narrative about a couple that now communicates well and quite fearlessly even about the most painful things, and who have achieved a combination of acceptance (that what was done, was done) and recommitment (conscious choice to build a living partnership together despite).

 

To me this is profoundly hopeful. Sadness in it, sure, but the sadness comes from the death of innocent reciprocal trust and fidelity. But what happened, happened, and it means their story will never have that again. Rather than howl at the moon for that loss forever, they have through choice and hard work built somthing enduring despite it and after it. I admire that and find hope in it.

 

Thanks, and I'm glad. My hope was that someone would see the good in this situation and maybe their future might not seem less bleak. Some seem to have taken away that I want or could still seek revenge. Nothing could be further from the truth. And " like that" to me, means that we cannot escape the reality that what happened happened, and I am being honest with her in that I accept this, and move forward.

 

You can survive infidelity. It won't be easy and it won't be perfect. But perfection can't be guaranteed with anyone. Nor should it be expected.

[TrustedthenBusted]

A question for the op,

 

If your wife has another affair and your marriage ended, do you think that you could ever fully trust someone else, were you to get into a romantic relationship afterwards?

 

The "trust" ship definitely sailed away 6 years ago. If ever a valuable life lesson was learned, it was on D-day. Trust is an illusion, and a safety blanket we pull over our own eyes. We trusted out partners completely because it felt good, we felt safe and moreover, we felt like that trust offered some level of protection.

 

Well how'd that work out for us?

 

As I've said on here before, I will never trust anyone completely again. But it's not nearly as jaded as it sounds. To me, it just means going into all relationships with your eyes open, understanding that you are one human being, relating to, relying on, and engaging with another human being.

 

( Disclaimer: valuable Life lesson #2 is to never say never. ) But... I don't think I'd ever get married again, no. Don't see the value in it. But I'd definitely get into a romantic relationship again. If anything, I feel even better equipped to do that than I was before D-Day.

 

There IS an upside to going through this. I imagine the people who divorced and found love again know what I'm talking about. It would be easy to go start with someone new armed with what I've learned about communication and meeting needs. I've simply chosen to keep giving it a go with my wife.

[Auspecial]

I don't get why some think it is ignoble to "its like that" and have revenge sex after an affair.

 

In fact I wouldn't even call it "revenge," its more about balancing an injustice.

 

I have been cheated on and balanced the scales, and I felt much better after doing that, and have no regret. One of the relationships continued on a few more years, the other was definitely over, but I still felt better. Other times I have not sought to balance the scales, but not out of a sense or purpose of being noble, it just didn't come up as a desire at those times.

 

I find it a bit amusing that some people get so up in arms that balancing the scales wouldn't do any good, and the vast majority of these people saying it are those who give themselves the green light to cheat in the first place.

 

When "its like that," you can still keep carrying on, but as OP says, things have now become something else, the other person has done a myriad of damages to another person, and many times a family...even if the children don't know, there are now large fissures in the foundation, which will now be incorporated into the fabric of the children's development.

 

Why not do something that makes you feel a little better? I am suspicious of anyone's agenda who faults someone who has been a victim to this, trying to make things feel more balanced.

[the_artist_1970]

I think that in a sense an affair creates an imbalance in the relationship. One of us kept to our vows, the other didn't - they went out and had experiences that changed them and the relationship, and we did not.

 

My WW once said that she "sort of" wished I would go out and have a ONS to even things up... she had a 8 year EA/PA.. and a ONS evens things out?

 

I said that I wouldn't do that because I had more respect for myself than that. That I just couldn't do it because .. well I couldn't because it would just feel wrong.

 

I think a RA would not balance the relationship. Even if I went out hand had the same sort of affair my WW did. It wouldn't balance anything, and instead it would destroy everything IMO.

 

But there is a sense of the "unfairness" of it, isn't there? How was it fair that my WW went out and had lots of sex and all kinds of romantic things with some other guy? and she did this while I was sitting at home taking care of our kids and managing our animals and the household.

So it's just unfair - but I don't think there's anyway to even things out and make it fair again.

 

But see, this is why you should repair your M and have mind-blowing sex with your W if you are rebuilding. Rebuilding means you are building a M where you both want to be and are enjoying every minute of each other, especially sexually. Staying trapped in a M and not enjoying each other is a terrible way to live. There is nothing that a person who barely knows your spouse can give them sexually that you can't. You can make your M a very happy place to be if you work hard instead of staying stuck in the past.

[autumnnight]

I don't get why some think it is ignoble to "its like that" and have revenge sex after an affair.

 

In fact I wouldn't even call it "revenge," its more about balancing an injustice.

 

I have been cheated on and balanced the scales, and I felt much better after doing that, and have no regret. One of the relationships continued on a few more years, the other was definitely over, but I still felt better. Other times I have not sought to balance the scales, but not out of a sense or purpose of being noble, it just didn't come up as a desire at those times.

 

I find it a bit amusing that some people get so up in arms that balancing the scales wouldn't do any good, and the vast majority of these people saying it are those who give themselves the green light to cheat in the first place.

 

When "its like that," you can still keep carrying on, but as OP says, things have now become something else, the other person has done a myriad of damages to another person, and many times a family...even if the children don't know, there are now large fissures in the foundation, which will now be incorporated into the fabric of the children's development.

 

Why not do something that makes you feel a little better? I am suspicious of anyone's agenda who faults someone who has been a victim to this, trying to make things feel more balanced.

 

It's easy: Is adultery wrong or not?

 

Do right or wrong and MY values depend on whether someone else does what is right?

 

Or are we all 6 years olds in the schoolyard saying "He hit me first!!"

[toolforgrowth]

It's easy: Is adultery wrong or not?

 

Do right or wrong and MY values depend on whether someone else does what is right?

 

Or are we all 6 years olds in the schoolyard saying "He hit me first!!"

 

I had a RA and never once regretted it. It actually helped me realize that there were other women out there, and that my life was nowhere near over because of what my xWW was doing. It was exactly what I needed to get my confidence back and kick her out of my life.

 

Doesn't bother me if people question my morality over it. It's my life, so I'll make the decisions that I believe are in my best interest. At the end of the day, that's really all that matters to me.

[Noirek]

I had a RA and never once regretted it. It actually helped me realize that there were other women out there, and that my life was nowhere near over because of what my xWW was doing. It was exactly what I needed to get my confidence back and kick her out of my life.

 

Doesn't bother me if people question my morality over it. It's my life, so I'll make the decisions that I believe are in my best interest. At the end of the day, that's really all that matters to me.

 

Spoken like a true cheater. Welcome to the club!

[TrustedthenBusted]

You two are willingly in a prison together.

 

Isn't that what marriage is?

 

Lol. Nobody gets up there and promises they will stay together in the good times. They promise they will stay together through the really really crappy ones.

[Noirek]

Isn't that what marriage is?

 

Lol. Nobody gets up there and promises they will stay together in the good times. They promise they will stay together through the really really crappy ones.

 

Not to be contrary but actually we do.

 

For BETTER or worse

In SICKENESS and health.

 

I guess people like you and my husband take their vows seriously. By the way I didn't take it that you were going to cheat. I took it that you view your marriage as always imbalanced (like that). And that is why the whole redemption thing and forgiveness is a farse. You've got it "good enough" for you and you seem happy. But by your opening post there is still that elephant hanging around.

[toolforgrowth]

Spoken like a true cheater. Welcome to the club!

 

Not quite. I kept my vows until she didn't. Our marriage contract became null and void the moment she opened her legs for another man.

 

One who is adulterous does not have the right to expect fidelity from their partner.