"Oh, it's like THAT huh?"

[candie13]

It's horrible to have such an event occurring right in front of your eyes, because it brings back all the memories related to the affair. For your sanity and for the health of your marriage, see those friends, comfort them, but try to not get too involved.

 

I think RA only make victims just as bad as the adulterers. It brings out the worst in them. It poisons them... it's not the answer, it doesn't solve anything and it only makes one feel worst, if they decide to stay in that marriage.

[toolforgrowth]

It's horrible to have such an event occurring right in front of your eyes, because it brings back all the memories related to the affair. For your sanity and for the health of your marriage, see those friends, comfort them, but try to not get too involved.

 

I think RA only make victims just as bad as the adulterers. It brings out the worst in them. It poisons them... it's not the answer, it doesn't solve anything and it only makes one feel worst, if they decide to stay in that marriage.

 

Fair enough. But my experience is in direct contradiction to your feelings. It made me stronger, restored my confidence, and gave me the wherewithal to divorce my xWW and never look back.

 

Our marriage was over the second she cheated. There was no going back.

[Noirek]

Not quite. I kept my vows until she didn't. Our marriage contract became null and void the moment she opened her legs for another man.

 

One who is adulterous does not have the right to expect fidelity from their partner.

 

It's called justification. You are really good at this. Of course if you kicked her out and actually seperated that's different. Otherwise, you just wanted to cheat all along and got your chance. Or you wanted to hurt her. Bothare understandable. Right? Well welcome to the club.

[Auspecial]

But see, this is why you should repair your M and have mind-blowing sex with your W if you are rebuilding. Rebuilding means you are building a M where you both want to be and are enjoying every minute of each other, especially sexually. Staying trapped in a M and not enjoying each other is a terrible way to live. There is nothing that a person who barely knows your spouse can give them sexually that you can't. You can make your M a very happy place to be if you work hard instead of staying stuck in the past.

 

I can see myself taking this route, and I can also see myself taking the route of "balance the scales somewhat (you never will fully balance them) and then work on the M.

 

I think either way is okay, but the second route is much more fair, and I would feel better about trying in the M, with both coming from equal footing, plus the other person seeing that they can't run around doing whatever they want without repercussions.

[toolforgrowth]

It's called justification. You are really good at this. Of course if you kicked her out and actually seperated that's different. Otherwise, you just wanted to cheat all along and got your chance. Or you wanted to hurt her. Bothare understandable. Right? Well welcome to the club.

 

We were already separated and divorce had already been filed.

 

I've read your thread. It helps you to feel better by dragging me down to your level. I get it. Doesn't bother me. The bottom line is that's risk all WS's take when they cheat.

 

If you don't want your spouse out humping around, don't do it yourself. You're not entitled to fidelity when you don't willingly give it yourself.

[autumnnight]

I had a RA and never once regretted it. It actually helped me realize that there were other women out there, and that my life was nowhere near over because of what my xWW was doing. It was exactly what I needed to get my confidence back and kick her out of my life.

 

Doesn't bother me if people question my morality over it. It's my life, so I'll make the decisions that I believe are in my best interest. At the end of the day, that's really all that matters to me.

 

I wonder....would this work if someone said. My A worked for me. It let me know there were men/women out there who WOULDN'T sexually starve and neglect me.

 

I'm thinking not....

[Noirek]

We were already separated and divorce had already been filed.

 

I've read your thread. It helps you to feel better by dragging me down to your level. I get it. Doesn't bother me. The bottom line is that's risk all WS's take when they cheat.

 

If you don't want your spouse out humping around, don't do it yourself. You're not entitled to fidelity when you don't willingly give it yourself.

 

Oh I've asked for an open marriage so no worries there. You've just clarified your story. You did not have a RA by any means. Some people think the divorce papers should be signed of course but as you were already seperated so.... So, I'm not even sure why you preached RA. that was misleading. You did not cheat so no justifcation or club for you! You aren't a hypocrite when you preach against cheating.

[Auspecial]

It's easy: Is adultery wrong or not?

 

Do right or wrong and MY values depend on whether someone else does what is right?

 

Or are we all 6 years olds in the schoolyard saying "He hit me first!!"

 

 

I am speaking of cheating in exclusive dating relationships, actually.

 

I have never cheated nor been cheated on within a marriage. My ex had very low drive, and there were other things that were not working, but I stuck it out until we legally split up. I am proud of myself that I didn't succumb to physical needs during the M.

 

If I was married again and my husband cheated, it is not right. If I balance the sheets, that's not right either but he has actually thrown the marriage into the garbage by cheating. This is much much deeper than a tit-for-tat scenario. This isn't the same as 6 yr olds in the school yard. This is an entirely different animal.

 

Coming from a balanced perspective is the only way it could have a hope of moving forward and being repaired. Its also not ignoble, it is a very human response to a terrible abuse. I am not a religious person but if I were, the way I would see it is, Jesus can carry that cross for me, because I can't. I know myself well enough to know that if married again and this happened, I may try to re-build but it would always be on my mind. Whereas if I balanced the scales, Every time I thought about it and it would hurt, I could also feel like I responded appropriately to the degree of the offense.

[Auspecial]

Not quite. I kept my vows until she didn't. Our marriage contract became null and void the moment she opened her legs for another man.

 

One who is adulterous does not have the right to expect fidelity from their partner.

 

Can I like this more than once?

[toolforgrowth]

Oh I've asked for an open marriage so no worries there. You've just clarified your story. You did not have a RA by any means. Some people think the divorce papers should be signed of course but as you were already seperated so.... So, I'm not even sure why you preached RA. that was misleading. You did not cheat so no justifcation or club for you! You aren't a hypocrite when you preach against cheating.

 

Legally, I did have an affair. Filling for divorce doesn't make it automatically legally binding.

 

There are consequences for actions. I don't "preach" RA. I simply understand where the woman is coming from on the OP's anecdote. Yes, that's exactly how it is. WS's don't have to like it, but they have no say in it anymore. They've lost their right to judge or complain.

 

This is all my personal philosophy on the subject. You are free to disagree.

[Noirek]

I am speaking of cheating in exclusive dating relationships, actually.

 

I have never cheated nor been cheated on within a marriage. My ex had very low drive, and there were other things that were not working, but I stuck it out until we legally split up. I am proud of myself that I didn't succumb to physical needs during the M.

 

If I was married again and my husband cheated, it is not right. If I balance the sheets, that's not right either but he has actually thrown the marriage into the garbage by cheating. This is much much deeper than a tit-for-tat scenario. This isn't the same as 6 yr olds in the school yard. This is an entirely different animal.

 

Coming from a balanced perspective is the only way it could have a hope of moving forward and being repaired. Its also not ignoble, it is a very human response to a terrible abuse. I am not a religious person but if I were, the way I would see it is, Jesus can carry that cross for me, because I can't. I know myself well enough to know that if married again and this happened, I may try to re-build but it would always be on my mind. Whereas if I balanced the scales, Every time I thought about it and it would hurt, I could also feel like I responded appropriately to the degree of the offense.

 

Revenge never helps anyone. Cheating out of revenge never rebalances the scale. I believe Kaitlee's story is a good example of that. But, I really don't care if people do RAs. To each their own. But call a spade a spade if you do. You can't say cheating is wrong EXCEPT and be taken seriously. If a crappy marriage where your spouse denies you sex or is abusive and has broken all the other vows is not a good reason to cheat and those people are told "you should have left and not cheated" (which I agree with) those same people are hypocrites if they don't follow their own advice when the broken vow is forsaking all others.

[candie13]

Fair enough. But my experience is in direct contradiction to your feelings. It made me stronger, restored my confidence, and gave me the wherewithal to divorce my xWW and never look back.

 

Our marriage was over the second she cheated. There was no going back.

 

see, this is your experience, that is your reality. It's how you've felt. The OP obviously feels differently, as he is doing his best to stay in his marriage and make it strong.

 

no two relationships are similar...

[toolforgrowth]

I wonder....would this work if someone said. My A worked for me. It let me know there were men/women out there who WOULDN'T sexually starve and neglect me.

 

I'm thinking not....

 

I actually have sympathy for WS's in this scenario.

 

My situation was different because I wanted sex with my xWW, but she did not with me. She got it somewhere else. I stayed faithful, even after divorce had been filed, until I got confirmation of her A.

 

Even though I found myself in that situation, I still didn't cheat though.

[Noirek]

Legally, I did have an affair. Filling for divorce doesn't make it automatically legally binding.

 

There are consequences for actions. I don't "preach" RA. I simply understand where the woman is coming from on the OP's anecdote. Yes, that's exactly how it is. WS's don't have to like it, but they have no say in it anymore. They've lost their right to judge or complain.

 

This is all my personal philosophy on the subject. You are free to disagree.

 

How was it a RA when the marriage was openly over and only waiting on the courts? Maybe in a religeous sense it was adultrey but the marriage was being absolved. Yeah, totally different story then say someone who is still actually in the marriage, maybe even working on R and sneaking off for some of their own. Entirely different and I think the vast majority of folks can see that. And before you go thinking this is about me again. My H had and has full permission to bang whoever he wants.

[toolforgrowth]

see, this is your experience, that is your reality. It's how you've felt. The OP obviously feels differently, as he is doing his best to stay in his marriage and make it strong.

 

no two relationships are similar...

 

Agreed!

 

My point is that the WS loses control of the situation by cheating. The BS will do whatever they feel they need to do. The WS had no more moral high ground upon which to cry foul as a result of it.

 

The OP chose to stay married. That was his choice, and I have no opinion on it. He did what he wanted, and that was his choice to make.

[toolforgrowth]

How was it a RA when the marriage was openly over and only waiting on the courts? Maybe in a religeous sense it was adultrey but the marriage was being absolved. Yeah, totally different story then say someone who is still actually in the marriage, maybe even working on R and sneaking off for some of their own. Entirely different and I think the vast majority of folks can see that. And before you go thinking this is about me again. My H had and has full permission to bang whoever he wants.

 

It ain't over till it's over. After her A ended but before the D was final, she tried to come back, abd she did everything she could to legally disincentivize me from following through with it. Had I not gotten a taste of what post D life would be like in my "RA", I'm not sure if I would have had the strength to follow through.

 

For me, it made all the difference.

 

Your M is your M. If you two have come to a mutually satisfactory agreement, then more power to you.

[Grapesofwrath]

Isn't that what marriage is?

 

Lol. Nobody gets up there and promises they will stay together in the good times. They promise they will stay together through the really really crappy ones.

 

Reminds me of that famous line....

 

"Marriage is not just a word. It's a sentence."

[Auspecial]

Revenge never helps anyone. Cheating out of revenge never rebalances the scale. I believe Kaitlee's story is a good example of that. But, I really don't care if people do RAs. To each their own. But call a spade a spade if you do. You can't say cheating is wrong EXCEPT and be taken seriously. If a crappy marriage where your spouse denies you sex or is abusive and has broken all the other vows is not a good reason to cheat and those people are told "you should have left and not cheated" (which I agree with) those same people are hypocrites if they don't follow their own advice when the broken vow is forsaking all others.

 

Based on this post, here is a flow sheet for what I feel is the sequence of proper behavior:

 

1. Never cheat.

 

2. If you are cheated on, break up and heal and find someone new to build a new, healthy relationship with.

 

3. If you are cheated on and desperately want to save the marriage, you have an option of RA or not. Either way is A-okay, because the marriage is now null, and ground-zero. Its a personal choice.

 

4. If you cheat, fully expect the other person to break up with you. By cheating, you are asking for them to do this.

 

5. If you cheat subconsciously wanting the other person to break up, and then have a change of heart and desperately want to save the first relationship, you have to be prepared to live through the consequences of your abuses. This includes if your partner has a RA -one only, I feel is reasonable- and openly communicate whatever they need to hear to heal.

[drifter777]

It's called justification. You are really good at this. Of course if you kicked her out and actually seperated that's different. Otherwise, you just wanted to cheat all along and got your chance. Or you wanted to hurt her. Bothare understandable. Right? Well welcome to the club.

The only person I shared my wife's infidelity with was our (very conservative) pastor. I respected him and wanted his ruling, so to speak, as to whether I was free to date. At this time OM was living with my WW and there was no chance of reconciliation in my mind. He was shocked to hear what she had done, and was still doing, and assured me that her actions released me entirely from our wedding vows. I had absolutely zero intent to start dating but I knew that if a woman came on to me I'd hook up with her in hopes that it would distract me for a while and ease my pain. The opportunity never presented itself - and I'm not sure I would have taken advantage of it if it happened.

[coryreply]

I appreciate your post for so many reasons. One of them is, you're not afraid to be honest with your wife.

 

Even if it hurts a little, we must be honest with each other about our feelings, fears, etc.. post affair. God bless you both as you continue moving forward.

[sandylee1]

I've not been betrayed in marriage but I do understand the feeling of 'it's like that '.

 

Pre marriage, I was cheated on. We broke up when I found out but he came begging later. I agreed to get back with him.

 

I wouldn't call it an RA as such I wasn't thinking of revenge but I slept with someone else after we got back together . I wouldn't have done it if he never cheated first .

I ended the relationship with him as soon as I slept with the other guy though

 

I then started a relationship with the other guy. I was way younger then though.

 

If it was now as a married person, I do think you can't act all moral if you cheat first.

My preference would be to seperate and then have my own fun. There would be a sense of I've been faithful and shot down any opportunities I could have had, only for you to ignore our vows. I'd actually say upfront to my H, what I intended to do.

 

I'm a firm believer of what's good for the goose........is good for the gander.

 

What really gets me, is when a WS has the cheek to say if their spouse was unfaithful they wouldn't reconcile but they want to reconcile when they've cheated. In fact that statement alone would make me be done with the marriage.

 

Each to their own and how you handle infidelity is down to individuals . It's not a one size fits all

[fellini]

The whole issue of the vows is rather fuzzy in LS.

 

On the one hand, each of us has to take responsibility for knowing what we mean by our vows. But we cannot force our definition on others, in spite of how solid our definition is to us.

 

A vow, in church law, is NOT A CONTRACT you make with another person. (Again, if that is what you thought you were doing making your vows, then that is your business) but a VOW is a PROMISE or PLEDGE about what YOU are prepared to do. Infidelity, on the other hand is already taken care of as a sin.

 

AT no moment does the vow allow us to say: and if my partner breaks her vows, then I am free of mine. No. It is not a contract.

 

But if that is how you wish to interpret your vows, by all means.

 

Technically speaking, anyone who makes a vow "until death do us part" cannot morally defend a position that an affair automatically annuls this promise. It actually says the opposite. Everything else is just interpretation.

 

For me, what one could do is to say to one's unfaithful spouse, "Look, your infidelity is a deal breaker for me. I no longer wish to be married to you."

But to say, you broke YOUR vows and our marriage no longer exists, just doesn't hold water if one is referring specifically to one's vows.

 

That we cannot actually make such an enormous promise at the alter is the problem. But many BS's gladly stand behind the "vow card" when discussing infidelity.

It seems to me infidelity doesn't need to draw the vows to justify anything. Infidelity in a commonlaw marriage in which there are children involved is surely just as great a betrayal as a marriage with or without children, with or without the vows.

Edited June 6, 2015 by fellini

[Popsicle]

Isn't that what marriage is?

 

Lol. Nobody gets up there and promises they will stay together in the good times. They promise they will stay together through the really really crappy ones.

 

Those are just romantic words to encourage people to behave in the best ways. But once they break that, then there's a reason why divorce exists. It's also important that your spouse never gets the idea that you will put up with anything and never leave.

[understand50]

Those are just romantic words to encourage people to behave in the best ways. But once they break that, then there's a reason why divorce exists. It's also important that your spouse never gets the idea that you will put up with anything and never leave.

 

That is why reconciliation is a personal choice. What is your deal breaker? For some it is everything, others a lot more. I think everyone has to keep the option open of divorce, but what is the trigger for it is a personal choice.

108

[sandylee1]

Those are just romantic words to encourage people to behave in the best ways. But once they break that, then there's a reason why divorce exists. It's also important that your spouse never gets the idea that you will put up with anything and never leave.

 

I guess this depends on how seriously an individual takes their vows. Some see vows as more than just words, but a symbol of love and fidelity. I have to say when I've heard of people that were cheating prior to and at the time of marriage, clearly the vows mean nothing to them.