He ended it, and I feel numb.

[Bittersweetie]

I don't think he is sitting around purposefully trying to be manipulative and it's not calculating at all...but it's still messed up.

 

Agree! I don't think my xMM or all the MM here are sitting at their desks, tapping their fingers together, thinking: "How can I mess with OW's head today?" Most don't pull this crap on purpose. I think they* are operating from such a self-centered place that it doesn't even occur to them to think of how their actions and words are truly affecting another person, whether that person is the AP or BS or children or whoever. It is unfortunate because on the other side of that selfishness is a person with feelings and a heart who should be treated better.

 

*And this applies to MW too...like I was...

Edited June 9, 2015 by Bittersweetie

[MissBee]

Agree! I don't think my xMM or all the MM here are sitting at their desks, tapping their fingers together, thinking: "How can I mess with OW's head today?" Most don't pull this crap on purpose. I think they* are operating from such a self-centered place that it doesn't even occur to them to think of how their actions and words are truly affecting another person, whether that person is the AP or BS or children or whoever. It is unfortunate because on the other side of that selfishness is a person with feelings and a heart who should be treated better.

 

*And this applies to MW too...like I was...

 

Yepp!

 

It's true.

[MuddyFootprints]

Do you truly believe you are capable of being the other woman? I don't get the sense that you are cut out for this. I really don't. He came running back, but is he offering a change of relationship status?

 

He tried to dump you more than once.

 

I'd take this position of power right now and tell him to go eat a bag of d*icks.

[MissBee]

Do you truly believe you are capable of being the other woman? I don't get the sense that you are cut out for this. I really don't. He came running back, but is he offering a change of relationship status?

 

He tried to dump you more than once.

 

I'd take this position of power right now and tell him to go eat a bag of d*icks.

 

I almost spit out my tea when I read that line :lmao:

 

But ditto to the first part esp. I don't really get the sense that Rose is cut out to be a happy OW for years to come. You're already emotionally falling apart and it's not been years yet, so I can't see how this will improve. Although, that's not true, sometimes the longer people stay the more they devise ways to be okay with it, and erode their own desires more and more, whether that's healthy or not though is questionable.

 

But I do agree also that you can gain a position of power now by putting your foot down..if not, you'll have set the precedent that he can dilly and dally and break up with you and come back and you'll be so desperately happy you'll have him even if he's not offering anything new and it will be a hard dynamic to change. And I'm talking from having set such a precedent before myself.

[goodgirlgonebad15]

Do you truly believe you are capable of being the other woman? I don't get the sense that you are cut out for this. I really don't. He came running back, but is he offering a change of relationship status?

 

He tried to dump you more than once.

 

I'd take this position of power right now and tell him to go eat a bag of d*icks.

 

This tickled me beyond belief. I hollered

[goodgirlgonebad15]

Do you truly believe you are capable of being the other woman? I don't get the sense that you are cut out for this. I really don't. He came running back, but is he offering a change of relationship status?

 

He tried to dump you more than once.

 

I'd take this position of power right now and tell him to go eat a bag of d*icks.

 

I agree, I also don't think rose is fit for a LTA. But I would also say this MM isn't exactly LTA material either. It's only been a few months, he swings back and forth wildly. He says he wants to do the right thing but can't get there. He's scared of being caught, has already proven he can be sloppy and almost text his W messages meant for the OW. He has tried to dump Rose multiple times due to his fear. This dude is not skilled and it will be his sloppiness that blows this whole thing up.

 

Rose , he goes back and forth NOW because he can and he hasn't suffered any consequence but if and when his W finds out, the dynamic will completely flip and he will make his decision and I fear you will be devastated when he doesn't come back that time.

 

Don't let it get there, take your power back while the taking is good.

[anika99]

This tickled me beyond belief. I hollered

 

 

Too funny...

 

 

[Sassy Girl]

Do you truly believe you are capable of being the other woman? I don't get the sense that you are cut out for this. I really don't. He came running back, but is he offering a change of relationship status?

 

He tried to dump you more than once.

 

I'd take this position of power right now and tell him to go eat a bag of d*icks.

 

No one would ever get a chance to dump me a second time... Let alone a third.

I'm worth more than that

[RoseVille]

I wouldn't characterize myself as emotionally falling apart. I had one good cry on one evening, and then felt a calm sense of peace, numbness.

 

He's far more emotionally f***ed than I am. This is a man who hasn't been told ILY by anyone other than this own kids or parents in over a decade. He hasn't been desired, wanted, valued. He's ill-equipped to even receive my feelings, so immediately responding by reciprocating wasn't going to come naturally to him. But he has, and he is. His M isn't ending anytime soon (if ever, as far as I can tell), but over the past month, since the first time he tried ending it, our dynamic has changed dramatically. The past few days have been very eye-opening.

 

It's funny, the way he responds to conflict tells me he's spent a long time in MC and IC. He gets it. But it's not yet natural/instinctual to step up to face the unfamiliar. He's instinctively flight (shut down) not fight (that's me).

 

The posts I'm reading suggesting there's a power play or he's being manipulative just... aren't him, and don't fit the situation, at all. But I don't feel safe here disclosing details to defend him or me, as when I do, I'm attacked in some fashion - that I share too many personal details violating his and his W's privacy, I post too much and thus am obsessed, etc. It's been helpful talking to someone here but offline, as the sharing and understanding can reach a depth I'm just not comfortable with online.

 

In the same way that I wouldn't be okay dating a man for 5+ years without getting engaged but would be okay with dating a man for a few months and not yet being married to him, while I probably wouldn't be okay being in a LTA that goes on for years and years, I am "okay" with the right here, right now.

[lana-banana]

Rose,

 

I hope you're doing better and moreover hope you'll soon be healthy enough to recognize how toxic this situation is. It worries me that you say you're okay with things as they are right now. You are stuck on a severely damaged man who has been clear he won't leave his wife but is too selfish to let you go.

 

It would be one thing if you were just settling for breadcrumbs, but this relationship is actively harming your health and well-being. So long as the affair is on, you are hurting yourself and by definition are not okay. If your best friend said she was okay while stapling her face to the wall, would you believe she's okay or tell her to put down the damn stapler?

 

You say he's "emotionally present". So what? What's the good of having an "emotionally present" partner who can't take you out to dinner and cuddle with you in bed at night? You might as well be long-distance, only without the honesty and fidelity of a legitimate relationship.

 

The worst part is that he isn't necessarily "emotionally present" at all. When you say "emotionally present", I think you mean that he's just telling you things. He isn't doing anything at all to show you he cares but he's just saying words. Why do you put so much stock in anything he says at all when it's clear he can't stick to anything? You seem determined to believe whatever he tells you no matter how ludicrous---no "I love you" in over a decade? Really? Come on.

 

You need to spend a while just focused on yourself. Take some leave from work and block his number. Think about you, your health, your life and your future, and ask yourself if this man is worth throwing it all away.

[minime13]

I wouldn't characterize myself as emotionally falling apart. I had one good cry on one evening, and then felt a calm sense of peace, numbness.

 

He's far more emotionally f***ed than I am. This is a man who hasn't been told ILY by anyone other than this own kids or parents in over a decade. He hasn't been desired, wanted, valued. He's ill-equipped to even receive my feelings, so immediately responding by reciprocating wasn't going to come naturally to him. But he has, and he is. His M isn't ending anytime soon (if ever, as far as I can tell), but over the past month, since the first time he tried ending it, our dynamic has changed dramatically. The past few days have been very eye-opening.

 

It's funny, the way he responds to conflict tells me he's spent a long time in MC and IC. He gets it. But it's not yet natural/instinctual to step up to face the unfamiliar. He's instinctively flight (shut down) not fight (that's me).

 

The posts I'm reading suggesting there's a power play or he's being manipulative just... aren't him, and don't fit the situation, at all. But I don't feel safe here disclosing details to defend him or me, as when I do, I'm attacked in some fashion - that I share too many personal details violating his and his W's privacy, I post too much and thus am obsessed, etc. It's been helpful talking to someone here but offline, as the sharing and understanding can reach a depth I'm just not comfortable with online.

 

In the same way that I wouldn't be okay dating a man for 5+ years without getting engaged but would be okay with dating a man for a few months and not yet being married to him, while I probably wouldn't be okay being in a LTA that goes on for years and years, I am "okay" with the right here, right now.

 

Isn't it tiring, though, to say that you are numb and feel dead inside, then have him come back, then describe that numbness as a calming peace, and make excuses for a grown man in a marriage?

 

It should be.

[goodgirlgonebad15]

I wouldn't characterize myself as emotionally falling apart. I had one good cry on one evening, and then felt a calm sense of peace, numbness."

 

No Rose. You felt dead inside. That is very different from peace.

 

"Is that normal? To feel so... numb? Dead inside?" How soon we forget?

 

I just see a long list of excuses and sadly, a pattern.

 

I wish you luck RoseVille.

[MissBee]

I wouldn't characterize myself as emotionally falling apart. I had one good cry on one evening, and then felt a calm sense of peace, numbness."

 

No Rose. You felt dead inside. That is very different from peace. U

 

"Is that normal? To feel so... numb? Dead inside?" How soon we forget?

 

I just see a long list of excuses and sadly, a pattern.

 

I wish you luck RoseVille.

 

I wish you luck as well Rose.

 

Even though I said in your last thread I'd leave you to your own devises, when I do read it's hard not to comment because much of it is familiar to me.

 

But I agree that at this point you're just gonna have to do what you will and let what happens happens. This isn't an attack and I hope you don't ever feel like I'm attacking you, as I have no reason to. But there has been a pattern of you saying one thing ex: MM almost sent a text to his wife meant for you and he's getting scared and he's slipping up or you feel numb and dead inside then when we respond to that you later say stuff like: no we will never get caught I'm sure or its not that bad I felt calm and peace after crying.... And honestly it's like okay... We're not lying on you or misinterpreting. It's almost a weird gaslighting where it's made to seem like we all didn't see or understand what you said initially. These are things you have said then later backtrack on them and then downplay how badly it first sounded. Dead inside and calm and peace are not the same things and I think I'm fairly intelligent to know the nuances in language. Maybe people pointing those discrepancies out feels like an attack, but I do know that when we're not ready to hear the truth then we're defensive and it just upsets us as well as the people responding to us.

 

I hope you figure things out. As for loving a MM out of his issues, well you can't do that with anybody, so he needs his own continued IC for that.

Edited June 10, 2015 by MissBee

[still_an_Angel]

 

The posts I'm reading suggesting there's a power play or he's being manipulative just... aren't him, and don't fit the situation, at all. But I don't feel safe here disclosing details to defend him or me, as when I do, I'm attacked in some fashion - that I share too many personal details violating his and his W's privacy, I post too much and thus am obsessed, etc. It's been helpful talking to someone here but offline, as the sharing and understanding can reach a depth I'm just not comfortable with online.

 

In the same way that I wouldn't be okay dating a man for 5+ years without getting engaged but would be okay with dating a man for a few months and not yet being married to him, while I probably wouldn't be okay being in a LTA that goes on for years and years, I am "okay" with the right here, right now.

 

 

I don't believe the other posters here are attacking you Rose, I've read all their posts and its more of a motherly concern or older sister concern approach. A lot of the posters have actually just said to be careful.

 

 

I am on the same boat as you and would definitely caution anyone regarding LTA. So I will go back to the same question I asked you in my response, are you happy with the recent turn of events?

 

 

Putting all moral issues aside, is this relationship making you happy? Not just 'okay' but happy? Whether you are cut out for LTA or not, the question is if you are willing to 'settle' for this kind of relationship that goes up and down or will it push your stress limit beyond and will leave you asking "Is he really worth it?"

 

 

I really wish you the best Rose, please look after your heart.

[goodgirlgonebad15]

Rose,

 

I hope you're doing better and moreover hope you'll soon be healthy enough to recognize how toxic this situation is. It worries me that you say you're okay with things as they are right now. You are stuck on a severely damaged man who has been clear he won't leave his wife but is too selfish to let you go.

 

It would be one thing if you were just settling for breadcrumbs, but this relationship is actively harming your health and well-being. So long as the affair is on, you are hurting yourself and by definition are not okay. If your best friend said she was okay while stapling her face to the wall, would you believe she's okay or tell her to put down the damn stapler?

 

You say he's "emotionally present". So what? What's the good of having an "emotionally present" partner who can't take you out to dinner and cuddle with you in bed at night? You might as well be long-distance, only without the honesty and fidelity of a legitimate relationship.

 

The worst part is that he isn't necessarily "emotionally present" at all. When you say "emotionally present", I think you mean that he's just telling you things. He isn't doing anything at all to show you he cares but he's just saying words. Why do you put so much stock in anything he says at all when it's clear he can't stick to anything? You seem determined to believe whatever he tells you no matter how ludicrous---no "I love you" in over a decade? Really? Come on.

 

You need to spend a while just focused on yourself. Take some leave from work and block his number. Think about you, your health, your life and your future, and ask yourself if this man is worth throwing it all away.

 

This is a great point. Words sound good...but that's about it.

 

PS I don't believe this guy is anywhere near as unloved as he makes himself seem.

Edited June 10, 2015 by goodgirlgonebad15

[gettingstronger]

Interesting how posts make connections in my head with situations in real life-

 

I teach- one of my co-workers, a male elementary school teacher-much loved in the community-all around good guy- well, his wife left him recently for a guy twice divorced that does not have a stellar rep here in town- she has two kids- 11 and 15- she left, my co-worker has this kids- its one of those situation where you would be hard pressed to find anyone with anything good to say about her actions-

 

However, she made the choice- she took the chance, she believes she loves this man and she did what she felt she needed to do-it must have been incredibly hard for her to do this knowing what the talk would be- she comes to functions and smiles and is pleasant- my guess is she knows what is being said about her, but still she comes and still she made a choice few would have the gumption to do-

 

So, while so many say its impossible- I think she is proof people do it- I do not agree with her decisions but I can not say she did not act- swiftly and decisively- she would not even entertain the idea of MC or any of that-

 

Not sure how helpful any of that is, except to say- it seems she loved and believed in this new guy enough to give up so much to be with him- no excuses and apparently no apologies-

[MuddyFootprints]

Interesting POV. From my perspective, I couldn't help thinking that at least she isn't going to have the struggles of a MOW choosing this route.

[elaine567]

Blowing hot and cold is his trademark.

According to Rose he does this often. #1

 

This time he upped the ante, because this time Rose pushed him more, so he had to bring in bigger guns to reel her back in.

This time in response to deep emotion, he knew he had to return with "deep emotion" too, else she was really gone.

 

People who consistently engage in push/pull behaviour ARE manipulative, however "nice" they may seem.

This man is pushing away, then using the victim card to great effect it appears to pull Rose back.

Each time he does this, he damages her.

Each time he deigns to come back, she is just sooo relieved all is OK that the cruel pushing away is forgotten - replaced and excused by empathy for "the poor, poor victim".

Each time the hook just sinks in that little bit more.

My wife doesn't understand me.

 

[sandylee1]

This is a great point. Words sound good...but that's about it.

 

PS I don't believe this guy is anywhere near as unloved as he makes himself seem.

 

^^^^^^^^ 100%

 

You're believing EVERYTHING he tells you.

 

Telling you his wife hasn't said she loves him in 10 years . Sorry but you're way to gullible. Does he tell her he loves her and she just ignores him? All that is to gain your sympathy and it's working.

 

You'll do what you will. Your heart will take a hit again and again and again. When you've got no more tears and have lost any feeling and sense of who you were, and don't recognise the person this affair makes you, maybe you'll realise what everyone here was telling you is true.

 

I do not say this to hurt you it's the advice I'd give my friend or sister if they were in your position.

 

Sometimes, the truth really hurts.

[Mascara]

Rose, I don't know if it's been recommended to you before, but I think you should read the Baggage Reclaim site - Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue

[RoseVille]

^^^^^^^^ 100%

 

You're believing EVERYTHING he tells you.

 

Telling you his wife hasn't said she loves him in 10 years . Sorry but you're way to gullible. Does he tell her he loves her and she just ignores him? All that is to gain your sympathy and it's working.

 

Yup. I do believe him. You guys forget that I've known this person for two decades and have been friends for a long, long time. You don't know him. I do.

 

And I'm growing resentful of the outright statements that I'm gullible, that he's lying to me and manipulating me. He's not. End of story. And I'm not going to go into detail about why. A quick "love you" is much different than a real expression of love. He hasn't received that in a really, really, long time - if ever. His wife is repressed beyond what any of you can imagine.

 

Not every MM is a manipulative *******. Some really do live in completely DEAD marriages.

[RoseVille]

You say he's "emotionally present". So what? What's the good of having an "emotionally present" partner who can't take you out to dinner and cuddle with you in bed at night?

 

Who says he hasn't?

 

The worst part is that he isn't necessarily "emotionally present" at all. When you say "emotionally present", I think you mean that he's just telling you things. He isn't doing anything at all to show you he cares but he's just saying words.

 

Your assumptions are wrong. Just straight up wrong.

[RoseVille]

 

I wish you luck as well Rose.

 

Even though I said in your last thread I'd leave you to your own devises, when I do read it's hard not to comment because much of it is familiar to me.

 

But I agree that at this point you're just gonna have to do what you will and let what happens happens. This isn't an attack and I hope you don't ever feel like I'm attacking you, as I have no reason to. But there has been a pattern of you saying one thing ex: MM almost sent a text to his wife meant for you and he's getting scared and he's slipping up or you feel numb and dead inside then when we respond to that you later say stuff like: no we will never get caught I'm sure or its not that bad I felt calm and peace after crying.... And honestly it's like okay... We're not lying on you or misinterpreting. It's almost a weird gaslighting where it's made to seem like we all didn't see or understand what you said initially. These are things you have said then later backtrack on them and then downplay how badly it first sounded. Dead inside and calm and peace are not the same things and I think I'm fairly intelligent to know the nuances in language. Maybe people pointing those discrepancies out feels like an attack, but I do know that when we're not ready to hear the truth then we're defensive and it just upsets us as well as the people responding to us.

 

I hope you figure things out. As for loving a MM out of his issues, well you can't do that with anybody, so he needs his own continued IC for that.

 

I don't think he'll ever get caught. I just don't. Yes, when he initially tried to end, or really, "cool off" (to use his words) the affair, it was because he was getting sloppy and was afraid of getting caught. And sometimes he still is sloppy. But in the deepest parts of my gut, given the manner in which the A is carried out and his W's lack of access to the very things that would carry any evidence, if/when the affair ends, it won't be because he was caught.

 

As for my feelings? So many of you tell me dealing with stuff like this isn't a linear process. And yet, when I'm open and vulnerable to you and show you the rollercoaster of my emotions, you use it against me as "proof." Proof of what, exactly? That he's confused? That I'm confused? Ding ding ding, you've won.

[RoseVille]

Your heart is taking a battering here.

 

THIS is true!!

[goodgirlgonebad15]

I don't think he'll ever get caught. I just don't. Yes, when he initially tried to end, or really, "cool off" (to use his words) the affair, it was because he was getting sloppy and was afraid of getting caught. And sometimes he still is sloppy. But in the deepest parts of my gut, given the manner in which the A is carried out and his W's lack of access to the very things that would carry any evidence, if/when the affair ends, it won't be because he was caught.

 

As for my feelings? So many of you tell me dealing with stuff like this isn't a linear process. And yet, when I'm open and vulnerable to you and show you the rollercoaster of my emotions, you use it against me as "proof." Proof of what, exactly? That he's confused? That I'm confused? Ding ding ding, you've won.

 

YESSSSSS your emotional rollercoaster is PROOF this sitatuion is not healthy for you. One minute he wants you the next he doesn't. One minute you are crying your eyes out, the next it was just a peaceful calm. Push/pull is not healthy. The proof is in you own words.

 

And it's not a linear process, there will be slip backs of course. But I don't think you have even reached wanting to start that process. You want MM however he will have you. I'm not trying to be harsh but I see the pain in your threads when are actually being open and vulnerable and then as soon as he is back, you flip and make it seem like we are crazy and making stuff up or misunderstood you. I don't get that. I'm sorry, but I don't.