He ended it, and I feel numb.

[anika99]

Yup. I do believe him. You guys forget that I've known this person for two decades and have been friends for a long, long time. You don't know him. I do.

 

And I'm growing resentful of the outright statements that I'm gullible, that he's lying to me and manipulating me. He's not. End of story. And I'm not going to go into detail about why. A quick "love you" is much different than a real expression of love. He hasn't received that in a really, really, long time - if ever. His wife is repressed beyond what any of you can imagine.

 

Not every MM is a manipulative *******. Some really do live in completely DEAD marriages.

 

 

Roseville the bolded is just another spin you are putting on things in order to discount everyone's advice. You have not known this man for two decades or been friends with him for a long long time. At least not according to what you said in an earlier thread. You said you met him 20 yrs ago as a teenager and then never saw him again until 15 yrs later. That is not knowing someone for two decades.

 

 

Also many posters in this thread, including myself, have said that the MM may very well be confused and not deliberately manipulating you. However it doesn't even matter if he is doing this on purpose or not, the results will be the same which will be with you ending up very hurt and very messed up and damaged.

 

 

Also from reading your prior threads it seems that everything you know about his wife and his marriage comes from him. The things he says and the way he acts. He is not a reliable source because he can't be objective in regards to his marriage as he has to rationalize his cheating, both to himself and to you.

 

 

Obviously you have made up your mind and there is nothing anything we can say to you to about it so good luck and enjoy your affair.

[Giggle]

 

And yet he repeatedly chooses this "completely DEAD marriage" over you. That makes no sense whatsoever unless, of course, the marriage isn't completely dead and he's actually quite happy the way things are now. Don't tell me it's about "the kids", either; I know plenty of people who have divorced with children of all ages and managed to work things out relatively smoothly.

 

Listen to yourself. Please. You are falling to pieces in front of our eyes and it's heartbreaking to watch. Please do whatever it takes to put yourself first.

 

 

Suuuuure some people choose differently. I chose differently for me and my kids. Does it mean that these guys are wrong? Or lying? Maybe it's a lack of empathy that makes that type of thought just bs to some. I totally get where he's coming from even though I disagree.

 

Some are full of ****. They just are. But that doesn't mean everybody is. It's not just a single aspect that you have to consider. My marriage was pretty damn dead. We weren't even sleeping in the same bed. I was very very torn on what was best for us. But it was my experience as a kid that tipped the scale into kicking him out. And I'm the mom. I get to have custody. If I were a guy, I don't think I could have made that choice. Omg that would have been Sooo much harder and it was already extremely tough.

 

Stop assuming the generalization is correct.

[Giggle]

 

I can tell you anyone who loves and cares about you, like your parents, siblings, other family members and friends would want you out of this affair.

 

Amazing. Cause my family is perfectly aware, loves me to pieces and yet.. They completely understand. Just hey, look out for yourself. My mom? Loves to see the sparkle in my eye. Any venting on my part is no more than any other LTR I've been in. We don't pull judgement and assume we know best. One of my friends just said hey, just know he isn't leaving his wife for you. Enjoy it for what it is.

[minime13]

And speaking from direct experience, no, there isn't ALWAYS manipulation between the APs.

 

Have you had an affair? Have you been a MAP? You may be manipulating it with your spouse but I never was anything but completely honest with my AP. That was the beauty of the affair, I could be me without concerns. I didn't need to lie to him.

 

 

Speaking from what I posted 3 times now, and which you confirmed, there is ALWAYS manipulation in an affair. Ruling it out is silly.

 

The big problem is taking offense and reading into simple advice. I never said there was always manipulation between AP's (although, if they aren't living a free and clear life in the open, there still is), but you read it how you wanted.

 

The thing that disturbed a lot of us here was the original statement of numb - dead inside, and then the immediate reversal of numb - peaceful feeling by the OP within the same thread, and the only difference was him coming back. She's manipulating her own story without even realizing it. Those are the facts that we see, and stating that is not making assumptions.

[Sassy Girl]

Honestly all, I'd save it.

 

Rose isn't ready to hear it. Her posts are full of contradictions, defence and justifications for why her situation is unique and her affair is a special snowflake. She's not ready.

 

Never mind there are years and years of first hand experience taking time to offer help. And yes we've seen it all before. It's like the car crash happening in slow motion: we know it's not going to be pretty but we can't help but look anyways. It's only been a few months. How many OW here wasted YEARS before they started to get it

 

She's got a few more goes around on the roller coaster before she drops the defences and is ready to listen. Only when the pain of loving him is more than the pain of losing him will she be ready to hear you all.

[Got it]

Speaking from what I posted 3 times now, and which you confirmed, there is ALWAYS manipulation in an affair. Ruling it out is silly.

 

The big problem is taking offense and reading into simple advice. I never said there was always manipulation between AP's (although, if they aren't living a free and clear life in the open, there still is), but you read it how you wanted.

 

The thing that disturbed a lot of us here was the original statement of numb - dead inside, and then the immediate reversal of numb - peaceful feeling by the OP within the same thread, and the only difference was him coming back. She's manipulating her own story without even realizing it. Those are the facts that we see, and stating that is not making assumptions.

 

So what on earth does manipulating the BS have anything to do with the OP and the topic at hand? That is comparing apples and oranges.

 

Sigh, and even if they aren't living free and clear there isn't manipulation between the two of them. I didn't read it how I wanted to, I read it how you wrote it. Which you just did again! You are writing that there is manipulation between them if they are in an affair together!

 

I think if people got off their soapbox about affairs, and spoke like this was just any other relationship, the advice would be more readily accepted. One's agenda drowns out the advice.

[sandylee1]

His wife is repressed beyond what any of you can imagine.

 

.

 

Do you know her personally?

 

In a healthy relationship you wouldn't have to think about your boyfriends wife.

[Hope Shimmers]

Honestly all, I'd save it.

 

Rose isn't ready to hear it. Her posts are full of contradictions, defence and justifications for why her situation is unique and her affair is a special snowflake. She's not ready.

 

Never mind there are years and years of first hand experience taking time to offer help. And yes we've seen it all before. It's like the car crash happening in slow motion: we know it's not going to be pretty but we can't help but look anyways. It's only been a few months. How many OW here wasted YEARS before they started to get it

 

She's got a few more goes around on the roller coaster before she drops the defences and is ready to listen. Only when the pain of loving him is more than the pain of losing him will she be ready to hear you all.

 

This is why I haven't posted to this thread yet. I know you aren't ready to hear it Rose.

 

That said, if it's enough for you (whatever he is doing/saying) then it is enough. None of us here can judge that for you. Not all affairs are the same.

 

However, as others have pointed out repeatedly, your posts are all over the place emotionally and even factually. That indicates that you are NOT fine with it, and you are adjusting reality to make it 'okay' when the push changes to the pull, or when he switches to blowing hot from cold.

 

I have been in your shoes (twice, unfortunately). Seems I didn't learn my lesson the first time, and ended up in a similar situation which at least I was able to recognize and shut down before it got anywhere near how bad it was the first time.

 

You may be okay with it long-term, but you are a lot like me (intelligent, stubborn, opinionated, educated, self-confident, independent, and defensive, to name just a few). What is happening to you happened in almost the EXACT same way to me. Like you, I thought we were 'special'. He was actually separated, so even better, right? Turns out, not so much.

 

What happens is that as you keep doing the push-pull/hot-cold and break up/start back up thing, over the course of years, you wake up one day and you realize that you have handed your entire identity, your power, your self-worth over to this man. Your whole identity and happiness is dependent on what he does or doesn't do.

 

The thing is, it doesn't matter if he loves you more than his wife, if he is staying in his marriage 'for the kids' or whatever he says. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. The outcome is the SAME. Unless he takes action to change it.

 

I already see that happening with you Rose. It doesn't get better; it just gets infinitely worse and one day, months or years from now, you will wake up and realize you have lost every bit of yourself, with absolutely no idea how to get it back, while you are stuck living the devastation and hopelessness and pain of ending the relationship that has become what defines you. I will tell you - that is the hardest thing. Ever.

 

You don't have to take my word for it, and I actually know you won't. When I was at your place I wouldn't have listened to me either. But just on the chance that you have more self-awareness and insight than I did, I had to say this.

 

I understand being at the point that the affair in any form is better than not being in it. I understand thinking and telling myself that I would be okay with what he COULD give me. However, in reality I wasn't that woman. I wasn't okay with it, and it destroyed me. I hope you don't let it destroy you.

[gettingstronger]

I think for me, it is the references to past relationships and the feeling of being resigned to be an OW rather than this person being worth the pain she is going through that I keep coming back to-

 

I feel like she is settling and trying to make the best of it because of other factors, not because of him as a person, but because of him as a situation- its almost like the high of the drama replaces the emptiness of feeling she will never have what she wants in any relationship-

 

I think the longer she allows this high to dull the other, the more harm she does to herself in the long run- I just feel badly about that- I wish she would end this and then work on why she feels the way she does about relationships in general-

 

KWIM?

[Hope Shimmers]

I think for me, it is the references to past relationships and the feeling of being resigned to be an OW rather than this person being worth the pain she is going through that I keep coming back to-

 

I feel like she is settling and trying to make the best of it because of other factors, not because of him as a person, but because of him as a situation- its almost like the high of the drama replaces the emptiness of feeling she will never have what she wants in any relationship-

 

I think the longer she allows this high to dull the other, the more harm she does to herself in the long run- I just feel badly about that- I wish she would end this and then work on why she feels the way she does about relationships in general-

 

KWIM?

 

It is very true, and a very good point.

 

The drama becomes almost addictive. The silence and complete "nothing" that results when it is over becomes so painful and hard to deal with that the drama of it actually seems better at some point in the process.

[goodgirlgonebad15]

So what on earth does manipulating the BS have anything to do with the OP and the topic at hand? That is comparing apples and oranges.

 

Sigh, and even if they aren't living free and clear there isn't manipulation between the two of them. I didn't read it how I wanted to, I read it how you wrote it. Which you just did again! You are writing that there is manipulation between them if they are in an affair together!

 

I think if people got off their soapbox about affairs, and spoke like this was just any other relationship, the advice would be more readily accepted. One's agenda drowns out the advice.

 

but this man keeps dumping RoseVille because of his marriage. He doesn't want to be caught, doesn't want the wife to find out. He isn't leaving or future faking. He has said he can't give her what she deserves and the reason for that is because he is married. How is anyone supposed to look at this relationship like a normal non affair?

[MissBee]

but this man keeps dumping RoseVille because of his marriage. He doesn't want to be caught, doesn't want the wife to find out. He isn't leaving or future faking. He has said he can't give her what she deserves and the reason for that is because he is married. How is anyone supposed to look at this relationship like a normal non affair?

 

I'm going to have to agree that while some aspects of affairs are quite similar to non-affiliated relationships there is a special board for affair relationships, likely because there are other things to consider wherein the advice and factors are not like non-affairs. I think it would be disingenuous to erase the affair aspect from your mind.

 

But someone can always post in General Relationships and omit the detail of the fact that it's an affair if they think that will give more relevant advice.

[RoseVille]

Amazing. Cause my family is perfectly aware, loves me to pieces and yet.. They completely understand. Just hey, look out for yourself. My mom? Loves to see the sparkle in my eye. Any venting on my part is no more than any other LTR I've been in. We don't pull judgement and assume we know best. One of my friends just said hey, just know he isn't leaving his wife for you. Enjoy it for what it is.

 

My mother and friends know as well. None of them have suggested I end my relationship with MM or even expressed disapproval.

[RoseVille]

I think for me, it is the references to past relationships and the feeling of being resigned to be an OW rather than this person being worth the pain she is going through that I keep coming back to-

 

References to past relationships? Resigned to being on OW? Not with the pain? Huh??

[RoseVille]

Do you know her personally?

 

In a healthy relationship you wouldn't have to think about your boyfriends wife.

 

You mean in a relationship where the parties agree to be monogamous, I wouldn't think about his wife.

 

That's not our relationship.

[RoseVille]

From reading your other threads it seems that everything you know about his wife and his marriage comes from him. The things he says and the way he acts. He is not a reliable source because he can't be objective in regards to his marriage as he has to rationalize his cheating, both to himself and to you.

 

Just because I haven't written every detail and every source on LS doesn't mean it didn't happen or that I only have one source. I have many sources of information. Him. Reading texts/emails between them, live-time. Our mutual friends.

[Hope Shimmers]

Just because I haven't written every detail and every source on LS doesn't mean it didn't happen or that I only have one source. I have many sources of information. Him. Reading texts/emails between them, live-time. Our mutual friends.

 

It doesn't MATTER what he thinks about his wife. It only matters what he DOES.

 

It's your thread so you can handle it however you choose; however, many people here have taken a great deal of time to reply to you and you are just defensive and borderline rude to those you do reply to at all.

 

You go on and on with details about OM's wife and his marriage and your relationship with him when it works for you, but when you are "back in" then you choose not to tell anyone on LS any of the details they might need to most appropriately respond to your thread. And then you mock them for being wrong in assuming things that you insist on keeping "secret".

 

I don't understand your goal here, but this seems very disrespectful to me. I don't understand the mindset of smacking everyone upside the head because they are trying to help you. Even when I was at my worst, I don't feel that I did that.

 

It's all up to you, though. Good luck. I'm out.

[Sassy Girl]

It doesn't MATTER what he thinks about his wife. It only matters what he DOES.

 

It's your thread so you can handle it however you choose; however, many people here have taken a great deal of time to reply to you and you are just defensive and borderline rude to those you do reply to at all.

 

You go on and on with details about OM's wife and his marriage and your relationship with him when it works for you, but when you are "back in" then you choose not to tell anyone on LS any of the details they might need to most appropriately respond to your thread. And then you mock them for being wrong in assuming things that you insist on keeping "secret".

 

I don't understand your goal here, but this seems very disrespectful to me. I don't understand the mindset of smacking everyone upside the head because they are trying to help you. Even when I was at my worst, I don't feel that I did that.

 

It's all up to you, though. Good luck. I'm out.

 

Quoted for truth! The double standard is astounding.

[ladydesigner]

Yes, there is always manipulation in affairs. If there were not, they'd be open relationships.

 

The person having the affair is controlling a situation between 2 partners. It may be as simple as that, but there is manipulation. Sorry but it goes hand-in-hand.

 

If Roseville was getting what she wanted, these threads wouldn't exist.

 

Yep would have to totally agree with this.

[anika99]

Just because I haven't written every detail and every source on LS doesn't mean it didn't happen or that I only have one source. I have many sources of information. Him. Reading texts/emails between them, live-time. Our mutual friends.

 

 

Okay, well then I guess we have it all wrong. Go live your life, have the affair and be happy. Good luck.

[minime13]

So what on earth does manipulating the BS have anything to do with the OP and the topic at hand? That is comparing apples and oranges.

 

Sigh, and even if they aren't living free and clear there isn't manipulation between the two of them. I didn't read it how I wanted to, I read it how you wrote it. Which you just did again! You are writing that there is manipulation between them if they are in an affair together!

 

I think if people got off their soapbox about affairs, and spoke like this was just any other relationship, the advice would be more readily accepted. One's agenda drowns out the advice.

 

She brought up manipulation because she believes it isn't happening. Some people disagree. You did read it how you wanted because you took it personally and inserted "AP" where I said "affair." And yes, if he's hiding her relationship, and if anyone hides their relationship, that is manipulation. I guess you can call it whatever you wish, though.

 

I do believe you are on a soapbox about it yourself, so you really shouldn't be expecting others to drop their own beliefs and opinions. I haven't seen anyone bash her, really. Not to mention, if you glance around at this board, omit the wife, and take his behavior at face value, you'd hear the same advice about his behavior toward her.

[Giggle]

She asked for advice? She said hey guys how do I handle this? What should I do?

 

Here I thought she was asking for commiseration. Yknow when your friend breaks up with her boyfriend and you give her a hug. Not an onslaught of wtf are doing? You're being stupid taking him back.

[minime13]

She asked for advice? She said hey guys how do I handle this? What should I do?

 

Here I thought she was asking for commiseration. Yknow when your friend breaks up with her boyfriend and you give her a hug. Not an onslaught of wtf are doing? You're being stupid taking him back.

 

This was asked:

 

"Is that normal? To feel so... numb? Dead inside?"

 

Verification and explanation has been given, as have responses and conversations.

 

Not a single person has said wtf or you're being stupid. These posts are concern and an attempt to relay personal experiences - because the original post did, in fact, ask a relevancy question. We all have our opinions, and just as much as you feel that people don't need to chide her for her decisions (which nobody is doing, I have read concern) nobody here that feels differently than you needs to be chided for having a different point of view. Agree to disagree, and that's fine.

[jwi71]

Rose,

 

Your favorite poster here.

 

I think, in the long run, continuing ends up causing you more pain. And my goal has been to minimize your pain. I do not believe this has a happy ending here.

 

As others have said, more eloquently than I, you simply aren't in place to hear an opposing viewpoint. Nothing wrong with that - don't take that for a pejorative at all. It is simply where you are at - now. Maybe, down the road, it will change. Maybe it won't.

 

I hope you continue to post here. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience to help, potentially, see things in a new light - shown in a new angle.

 

Good luck.

[MissBee]

She asked for advice? She said hey guys how do I handle this? What should I do?

 

Here I thought she was asking for commiseration. Yknow when your friend breaks up with her boyfriend and you give her a hug. Not an onslaught of wtf are doing? You're being stupid taking him back.

 

Sorry, Giggle. But in this case he broke it off with her and I know that if a guy broke if off with me and I was crying and saying I felt I was dying my friends would be like he's a jerk, forget him. If he did it twice and came back they would be like... Bee... Don't even take him back. No one called her stupid. But I can tell you, I actually appreciate that kind of advice.

 

I keep sane women around me who will slap me upside my head if I need it but that's my preference. It doesn't mean they don't empathize or can't commiserate but I think a mixture of empathy and girl what the actual eff are you doing never hurts.