Do you ever wish you weren't 'you'?

[johndoe2]

I don't mean like 'wish you had a different job' or a different station in life, or had made different choices. I mean, do you ever wish you had a fundamentally different personality?

 

Every so often I go out to a local bar, or a few, at night. I'll go into a bar, sit down, order a beer, even though I hate beer, because I can make it last longer than hard liquor. I'll sit there and look around at the clientele, watch whatever is on TV, watch people play pool. Occasionally I'll muster the courage to initiate small talk with the woman standing next to me at the bar about something trivial. It'll go on for a minute until she gets her drink and goes off to the table where her friends are already sitting, or it'll turn out she was waiting for her friends, who show up and everyone goes off somewhere else. On rare occasions, someone (always a guy, sometimes evidently gay, usually at least moderately drunk) will start talking to me, and that will go on for a few minutes. In any event, I'll sit there, occasionally walk around, go upstairs, come back down, for half hour to an hour. After maybe 40 minutes or so, after having made no lasting acquaintances (I never do), and after a couple beers and maybe a shot, I begin to feel frustrated, bored, and most of all out of place. I feel like an old man at that point, despite likely being younger than half the people in the bar. The obnoxious rap music is starting to annoy me, which might be tolerable if it weren't so horribly loud. The random high pitched shouts from the clientele begin to bother me. I look around and every single person in the room is in a clique of friends or acquaintances, many with their boyfriends/girlfriends, and it seeps into my mind that this is something I'll never have. I give up, sulk home despondently, retreat back into my comfort zone and listen to Wagner while drinking wine alone in my apartment until I fall asleep.

 

It seems like there is a vast chasm between me and everyone else that I can't bridge. Like I can't relate to them or they can't to me, I don't know. Some people say there is no such thing as normal, and I know this is a lie, as when I'm in a setting like a crowded bar, the distinction between normal and me couldn't be more crystalline. Despite my best efforts, I don't know how I can make any of these people (especially women, me being heterosexual) be interested in me, relate to me, or want anything to do with me. I've made these little bar visits countless times, I've tried so many times, always fruitless. I feel like I just can't bridge some ethereal gap between 'regular people' (basically, everyone else) and me. I feel like I need a dose of that potion Dr. Jekyll uses to become Mr. Hyde, lol. Not that I would go around trampling children underfoot like Mr. Hyde, just that I need a new personality; you get the idea. I don't know how to do this though.

 

I have always scoffed at the idea of reinventing oneself. It just seems shallow, the idea that you can change who you are like you change clothes, like there's nothing more deeply rooted about a person. But it is occurring to me more and more that my pride will give me little consolation when I end up like that strange, lonely, pathetic guy who use to ride the bus I took home from high school. This guy, he would mutter incoherently to the other strangers on the bus, like he was trying to strike up a conversation in a different language. It was tempting to dismiss him as merely crazy, but he wasn't. He didn't seem senile, he wasn't even that old. It just seemed like he was from another planet, or another far away country with enormously different customs (though he was in fact born and raised in that city). I don't know if he was always that strange. Maybe a long time ago he was only a little bizarre, but after years and years of what amounted to psychological isolation, he grew further and further apart from everyone. You could tell that he had no friends, had never been loved (save perhaps by his mother). He sometimes seemed almost desperate to connect with other human beings. But the most anyone could do was smile and nod with a mixture of apprehension and pity. One of my worst fears is that I will end up like him. And yet I feel like him already in some ways, which frightens me; I feel like I need a personality transplant, to become someone completely different from who I am to avert that dismal fate. I don't know how to do that.

 

Does (or did) anyone else ever feel this way?

 

Sorry for rambling: tonight was one of those nights where I went out to a bar and came back despondently and drank copious amounts of wine in my apartment, which impedes my sense of relevance. Now I'm waiting for the 'fall asleep' stage of this tried and true process.

[Toodaloo]

In answer to your question no.

 

If there is something about myself I don't like I figure out what I can do about it and take active steps to rectify it.

 

I will be blunt JD. You sound lazy. You sound like you are happy to blame everyone else for your misery rather than actively get off you arse and do the things that will make you happy.

 

Post all you like on here but we are not going to be able to change your life for you. The only person who can do that is you.

 

Who goes to bars with rap when they hate rap music??? Seriously?? Go to a jazz bar or rock bar or what ever you DO like listening to. You might have longer conversations because you will be with like minded people!!!

 

Your shooting yourself in the foot dude.

[Stillits]

I just had to respond because I experience a bit of the same thing. Namely, what you describe as this bridge or gap between you and other people; this lack of connection between me and other people. Like you're some kind of alien among a group of "normal" people.

 

I'm usually pretty happy with who I am. I think I have some good qualities and continue to try and improve things about myself that I deem undesirable. However, no matter how much I like myself, no one else to this day has ever 'understood' (or accepted) me properly as my true self. There is always this disconnect or gap.

 

I am able to be a social chameleon and put on a persona that people really like and relate to, although it drains my mental energy. This allow me to fulfill my superficial social needs but at the core I remain lonely and unfulfilled. I am sure there must be someone out there who I would be able to connect with on this level I desire. I don't wish to be someone else than 'me', but sometimes I feel like it would be easier if I was someone else.

[carhill]

We've all got our 'stuff' and, overall, I'm content with mine. Perhaps coveting aspects of another's life is attractive at times but IME it's a transient thing. Nothing and no one is perfect.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I'm good with my personality. I wish I had made some different decisions in life, but I'm good with the kind of person I am, and how I treat other people.

 

I definitely wish I LOOKED different.

[No Limit]

I was unhappy with myself, but that suddenly changed when I finally reached the bottom of the barrel. I basically changed overnight (a few nights before my 16th birthday in fact), it's like it made "click" in my head and I turned a lot more assertive. The only thing that took a little while was figuring out my style; in the end I did a 180 change looks-wise - from brown-blond hair to dark brown, boring standard clothes exchanged for streetwear and designer clothing.

 

Today the only thing I would love to change is my nose; it's broken and looks crooked because I fell on my face as a 6 year old and today even hurts when I lay on my cushion face down. But while it does annoy me a little when I look into a mirror or unconsciously switch into a painful sleeping position I don't feel ashamed for it. I like to assume that the weird face profile also keeps guys looking for ONS at bay, so that's another + for the imperfect nose.

[Torii]

Honestly, I wouldn't change who I am. Everything I've experienced has made me develop the outlook I have on life.

 

To change myself, would mean that I didn't like who I am. There's always, always time for personality improvement and all my experience plays a part in where I feel improvement is necessarily needed.

 

Every reaction, thought, etc has to do with how we grew up and what we experienced as adolescents. All we can do is learn how to cope, learn how to be happy with what we have and understand the path - negative or positive - we take during our lives.

[oldshirt]

In my youth the drinking age was 19. When my other nerd buddies and I turned 19 we decided it was time to head to the bar and "pick up women."

 

Well we got there, got a table, ordered our beer and then sat there. And sat there. And sat there. And sat there and sat there.

 

Our evening went about the same as yours only we were clustered in a little group of science nerds and members of the physics club. We probably looked more pathetic than you because we were in a group just sitting there in our coke bottle glasses and pocket protectors.

 

This went on a number of times. It didn't take me long to realize that wasn't working although some of the guys thought if we kept going back some how things would change.

 

One night during Christmas break during freshman year of college everyone was Back home for the holidays and we finally had an epiphany. Instead of going to the bar and hoping to meet someone and hit it off (without actually approaching them or talking to them of course) we decided to ask a bunch of girls from our hometown and our old high school class etc to join us and we went in a group.

 

That night we hung out, we laughed, we talked, we danced, we flirted and acted like everyone else in the bar and we didn't stick out like a sore thumb or look like a bunch of loser science nerds sitting in a bar like it was an alien landscape to us.

 

We tried it a few more times over time and low and behold it worked like that every time.

 

Come to find out, that's what actually worked for us - asking women that we know from other areas of our lives to join us on fun nights out. I think people call them "dates" if I'm not mistaken.

 

So my moral of the story as someone who had almost exactly the same experience (only difference is I never went by myself, only with equally or worse nerdy and awkward buddies) is drop the club scene if it isn't working for you and ask out people you know in other areas of your life ie hobbys, sports, work, community projects, school etc etc.

 

If you still want to be in th club environment, invite a bunch of mixed gender friends to go with you and then you be the one interacting and joking and laughing and dancing etc instead of the loner watching the bar tv alone with a stale beer in his hand.

[johndoe2]

I will be blunt JD. You sound lazy. You sound like you are happy to blame everyone else for your misery rather than actively get off you arse and do the things that will make you happy.

Don't see how I blamed everyone else, but interpret as you will I guess. Most of the things that 'make me happy' are solitary endeavors. Reading, music, cooking, etc. My tastes and interests tend to be somewhat arcane.

 

I think your problem here is that you keep trying to be someone you are not. It doesn't work. I don't like rap music either, so I would avoid a bar that even played it. I do like rock music, and there are a couple decent places around here that cater to that sort of crowd. I would suggest a change of scenery. It would be nice to make at least one friend you can go out with, that way you don't look like that creepy guy staring at women from across the bar.

There isn't much variety when it comes to 'sceneries' it seems, at least not where I live. Every bar or club within 5 miles of where I live that I know of is basically the same 'scenery', play the same kind of music (mixture of rap and pop, occasionally some country thrown in); some are more or less lethargic than others, some have more dancing, or more billiards. But it's not like I'm trying to fit in to some niche; these are the places where it seems pretty much everyone else goes. Especially young people.

 

And yes perhaps it would be nice to make friends, but that's kind of a case of, the solution to the problem is part of the problem itself. There are sort of friends from work, but none of them seem to 'go out;' a few basically seem to live at work.

 

So my moral of the story as someone who had almost exactly the same experience (only difference is I never went by myself, only with equally or worse nerdy and awkward buddies) is drop the club scene if it isn't working for you and ask out people you know in other areas of your life ie hobbys, sports, work, community projects, school etc etc.

 

If you still want to be in th club environment, invite a bunch of mixed gender friends to go with you and then you be the one interacting and joking and laughing and dancing etc instead of the loner watching the bar tv alone with a stale beer in his hand.

If I had a bunch of mixed gender friends this all would be moot. I guess I don't make friends easily, part of the heart of the issue, but not for lack of trying. A girl I would occasionally hang out with who I knew from classes (grad school) recently just stopped responding to my texts. I can't imagine I said anything off putting, maybe I'm just a bore? This has happened a couple times, which leaves me wondering a lot what is wrong that I'm missing here.

 

At any rate, I can't change my environment, I can only adapt to it, whatever that requires. I have to try at least.

[kolleamm]

Forget the bars man, it's just a bunch of women shaking their asses around to get your money.

 

No girl wants to be approached there, trust me I've worked around them.

 

Invest a lot of energy in finding another way of spending your time, it's gonna take some thinking but it will make you better off. It's worth the 15 minutes.

[SpiralOut]

I feel that way sometimes, but not as much as I used to. You're not alone. If you can't make connections with people, maybe you are talking to the wrong people. Or maybe you are doing something subconsciously to push people away. Either way, it's fixable. Don't give up.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

Didn't read everything

 

 

Generally, you get out of life what you put into it. Going to a bar is fine. Just sitting there waiting for someone to enter your zone of influence, has a low probably of success in my opinion. If you're in a social situation, try to socialize. Don't get fooled by appearances. Couples aren't always couples. I used to go clubbing with a woman who was bi, 10 years older than me & had a much higher number. We weren't together, just clubbing buddies. I was her DD, cigarette provider & lighter, respectful dirty dance partner (she loved to grind, but not be fondled) & wingman. People always assumed we were together. Guys would ask if I was her bf or husband. I would be honest and tell them she's single & a heartbreaker. You don't know for sure. It costs nothing to ask. If you see a girl that you're interested in & she's with a few friends, buy them all a drink. Ask girls to dance or play pool. Worst they can do is say no. I agree about the music being obnoxious. Maybe find a better bar or club to check out. Having a stoic, loner, depressed, unhappy, feeling sorry for myself vib probably isn't too attractive to girls. Find something to be happy or smile about. Make eye contact. Be bold & introduce yourself.

[johndoe2]

Forget the bars man, it's just a bunch of women shaking their asses around to get your money.

 

No girl wants to be approached there, trust me I've worked around them.

 

Invest a lot of energy in finding another way of spending your time, it's gonna take some thinking but it will make you better off. It's worth the 15 minutes.

Funny, the one time a woman ever approached me in a bar (I was elated, to say the least), this is precisely what happened; I bought her and her friend drinks (they specified what kind) and by the time had finished paying they were out of site.

 

Do they do this at bookstores to. "What, you just used me to get me to buy you a copy of Das Kapital!?" Her: "Not at all; from each according to his ability, to each according to her need, comrade!" Haha. Bad joke.

[kolleamm]

Funny, the one time a woman ever approached me in a bar (I was elated, to say the least), this is precisely what happened; I bought her and her friend drinks (they specified what kind) and by the time had finished paying they were out of site.

 

Do they do this at bookstores to. "What, you just used me to get me to buy you a copy of Das Kapital!?" Her: "Not at all; from each according to his ability, to each according to her need, comrade!" Haha. Bad joke.

 

I think now I remember why I got so much into science, so I could find a way to get off this planet

[No Limit]

It's those little imperfections that define us, separate us from the rest of the pack.

 

I used to date a girl that had a scar on her nose from an old car accident she was involved in as a child. She was really self conscious of it, and would casually try to hide her face every now and then, especially if she got embarrassed. Me, I thought the scar made her unique, and it was all part of her natural beauty. When you find the right guy, if he is not an idiot, he will feel the same way about your nose.

 

But that's what bothers me - this isn't the nose I was born with, this is the nose a mindless-past-me ruined. I'm glad I'm not interested in the dating world, because in a shallow world that nose would be the death of me. Instead that imperfection may give me the "not a 10 in looks, so therefore must be smart"-impression I prefer.

[Toodaloo]

Don't see how I blamed everyone else, but interpret as you will I guess. Most of the things that 'make me happy' are solitary endeavors. Reading, music, cooking, etc. My tastes and interests tend to be somewhat arcane.

 

There is nothing solitary about cooking classes... You could invite people round to cook with you... I went round to a friends house for a "Cookathon" where we all made different curries and then sat down to eat them. We all had our jobs and things that we had to do. It was FUN! Book clubs are not solitary, you could go for music lessons and learn to play an instrument... Do you see where I am going with this??

 

And yes perhaps it would be nice to make friends, but that's kind of a case of, the solution to the problem is part of the problem itself. There are sort of friends from work, but none of them seem to 'go out;' a few basically seem to live at work.

 

To make friends you have to find some common ground. I.E. Cooking classes, book clubs, music lessons... Contact your local college about adult learning courses that you could sign up to. Google book clubs and reading clubs locally, ask at the local library...

 

If I had a bunch of mixed gender friends this all would be moot. I guess I don't make friends easily, part of the heart of the issue, but not for lack of trying. A girl I would occasionally hang out with who I knew from classes (grad school) recently just stopped responding to my texts. I can't imagine I said anything off putting, maybe I'm just a bore? This has happened a couple times, which leaves me wondering a lot what is wrong that I'm missing here.

 

At any rate, I can't change my environment, I can only adapt to it, whatever that requires. I have to try at least.

 

I am sorry but it does sound as though you are a bore. There are several others on here like you who have exactly the same problems and when I read your posts its like wading through treacle because t h e y a r e s o d u l l a n d b o r i n g a n d a l w a y s g o o n a b o u t h o w r u b b i s h l i f e i s b u t n e v e r a b o u t y o u r adventures as you try to change it!

 

Its like reading a pity parade and that is not attractive to anyone either as a friend or relationship!

 

The only person who can change all of this is you! So what I suggest is that tonight you do two things. You set aside money in your budget as "fun budget" you then sign up and search for activities. I accidentally signed up for "Amazon Local" (I assume you can get something like that over there too) and it sends through offers and ideas of things to do. So I get some fantastic ideas from that. It also gives me ideas of things to look for and search for... I also do a lot of volunteer work and speak to people there and they come up with ideas as well... There are now 3 shows in London I want to go and see after people have talked about them... Look at your local theaters, volunteer at your local theater!!! Volunteer at your local dog shelter and take the dogs for walks and help with training them for re-homing, look for local groups that do things that you might enjoy. Seriously there is LOADS that you could be doing. It just takes a bit of imagination and thought and effort. Talk to people. Anyone, everyone, just short little snippets and PRACTICE your social skills!

 

There really is so much you could be doing rather than moaning about it.

 

Give it a try for a month. Try to push your boundaries and do things that make you feel uncomfortable that you have always wanted to try.

 

Then when someone talks to you, you will have something more to say than "nothing really" or "dunno"... "Oh I have booked myself onto a cookery course and am finding out about Spanish food - I am really excited about it as I don't know much about it but it always looks really yummy and exciting to eat so I am giving it a go!" Sounds much more exciting and positive than "I went to a bar - I don't like it".

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

and I hate how having a victim mentality looks worse in men than it does in women

[ZA Dater]

I am sorry but it does sound as though you are a bore. There are several others on here like you who have exactly the same problems and when I read your posts its like wading through treacle because t h e y a r e s o d u l l a n d b o r i n g a n d a l w a y s g o o n a b o u t h o w r u b b i s h l i f e i s b u t n e v e r a b o u t y o u r adventures as you try to change it!

 

They say if the shoe fits then wear, so I shall. I am undoubtedly one of the other posters you are referring to.

 

I can feel for the OP because I seem to have the same issue. Yes your last paragraph has some interesting points but I will counter by saying people all appear to like the same conformist things and I challenge you to prove me wrong on this.

 

I realise sitting down here at the bottom of Africa is hardly representative and perhaps American/UK females are different but I reckon if one had to compile a universal "like" list it would go something like this

 

1: Someone who is like my friends bf

2: Someone who looks hot

3: Someone with money

4: Someone with a fancy car

5: Someone who wears nice clothes.

6: Someone with a fancy job.

7: Someone who does all the things like clubbing and all those social "norms".

8: Casanova sexual prowess.

 

Irrespective what you bring to the table these will USUALLY trump everything else.

 

Things deemed unimportant on the like list are the following

1: Ability to have a conversation

2 Good vocabulary

3 Good manners

4 Generous

5 Diverse interests from the norm

 

Number 5 is perhaps the biggest deal killer of all.

 

Where I am going with this, simply put the OP sounds like an articulate guy, well balances in life but also an individual who doesn't follow the crowd.

 

Why should he feel like he needs to change who he is because he doesn't fit into what the female world deems to be attractive?

 

The mere fact his experience has been this bad suggests to me, yes you can generalise like I have above.

 

My advice to OP is, try and find someone who doesn't think like the lists mentioned above and then hope they find you attractive. Its not impossible and I wish you lots of luck, if I could find it fleetingly once and by all accounts I am a totally lost cause then I feel you can to.

 

In summary the world is by and large full of conformist sheep or people hoping to conform in order to find someone.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

That's why in some ways I feel jealous, envious of how women are valued for their youth more than men are

[lino]

In my mid to late teens I felt this way for a bit when I first moved to this country and didn't really feel 'welcomed' but that passed and I wouldn't change who I am for anyone or anything.

 

Proud of how my parents raised me and I owe them a lot for it.

 

Saddens me to read this sort of thing but it's true like some in here have stated... If you aren't part of the masses you're often invisible.

 

In your position OP, I would avoid those types of bars for sure.

 

Can only suggest playing some sports. In my life that's how I made most of my friends.

[lino]

and I hate how having a victim mentality looks worse in men than it does in women

 

It's because vulnerability and a degree of 'weakness' is seen as an effeminate trait by most and 'real men' aren't supposed to be like that.

 

How many times have you heard 'man up', 'be a man', 'real men do/don't X'?

 

Now compare it to how many times you've heard those exact same phrases with the word woman or lady substituted for man.

 

That is what society is.

[johndoe2]

“You could invite people round to cook with you”

Sigh. Where do I find these people?

 

Me: How do I open this can if I don’t have a can opener.

You: First, assume you have a can opener…

 

I am sorry but it does sound as though you are a bore.

Well great, I guess I'll just try Dos Equis from now on then.

 

Give it a try for a month. Try to push your boundaries and do things that make you feel uncomfortable that you have always wanted to try.

You’re whole post assumes that I haven’t tried, and tried a great deal (seems about par for the course with your input). I tried ‘pushing my boundaries’, when I tried going to all these different of bars (which I used to not go to); I’ve tried talking to plenty of random people, only ever saw one of them again, ate lunch with her, then ever see her again after that. Have tried inviting classmates to lunch or a movie, so we have a nice lunch or go to a movie, and eventually they seem to stop responding to my texts (which aren’t overly frequent, I assure you); tried speed dating several times.

 

And when the failures pile up, yes I come on here and vent and whatnot; but to presume I’m just sitting around here, not doing anything, and that’s the problem? What do you think I’m doing during those weeklong gaps in my posting record, sitting around jerking off over and over again?

 

Then when someone talks to you, you will have something more to say than "nothing really" or "dunno"... "Oh I have booked myself onto a cookery course and am finding out about Spanish food - I am really excited about it as I don't know much about it but it always looks really yummy and exciting to eat so I am giving it a go!" Sounds much more exciting and positive than "I went to a bar - I don't like it".

In the past few months I've taught myself to bake, to make pies, bread, gnocchi, and at long last and to my everlasting pleasure, tiramisu. Find me someone who gives a sh-t and I'll mail you a $20 bill.

Edited June 12, 2015 by johndoe2

[ZA Dater]

In the past few months I've taught myself to bake, to make pies, bread, gnocchi, and at long last and to my everlasting pleasure, tiramisu. Find me someone who gives a sh-t and I'll mail you a $20 bill.

 

I think the above is not an issue with you, as mentioned its one of society. Society has become a largely stagnant place full of people who walk around like sheep doing things, well because everyone else does them.

 

I can offer a suggestion though, did you ever try deliberately seek out the different people, be it on OLD or perhaps even in the supermarket as strange as that may seem. There are different people who don't all adopt the same sheep mentality, there are intelligent free thinking nice females out there

 

From my perspective reading your posts you perhaps need that one boost to restore your faith and I hope you do find it! I'd give bars a rest for a while, I am roughly where you are now and I found bars and clubs made me desperately unhappy.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

It's because vulnerability and a degree of 'weakness' is seen as an effeminate trait by most and 'real men' aren't supposed to be like that.

 

How many times have you heard 'man up', 'be a man', 'real men do/don't X'?

 

Now compare it to how many times you've heard those exact same phrases with the word woman or lady substituted for man.

 

That is what society is.

that's why I often hate how reality works

[Toodaloo]

Sigh. Where do I find these people?

 

Me: How do I open this can if I don’t have a can opener.

You: First, assume you have a can opener…

.

 

So you do not ever ever talk to any other human beings at all ever?

 

There is no one at work? There is no one in the shops where you buy food? there are no social groups that you could join at all ever??? You are a great cook and you enjoy food and learning about it. Are there no cookery courses locally. Where do you shop for your food could you try a new place? Are there local markets or producers that you could go to. Food fesitvals.

 

Making friends and being social is HARD WORK.

 

I live in the sticks, I work in the sticks. If I didn't work hard at it then I could easily go days on end with out actually seeing another person, let alone speak to them or interact with them.

 

I know this sounds stupid but joining amateur drama groups is fantastic for people. These groups tend to be very friendly and it improves your confidence and gets you socialising. I know it may not be your thing but give it a go? Even if you don't want to go on stage there are other things that you can help out with.

 

JD - you have some really great attributes. But your not selling yourself! Stop lowering your standards. At the moment you are probably coming across as some dull fuddy duddy. Are you that man? NO! When I get you riled up you have a whole stream of really positive things that you have about you and you enjoy! Get excited about those things.

 

So when someone asks what do you like to do

 

Instead of "Cook"

 

You can say

 

"You know I absolutely love cooking and food. Naughty I know, but you should try my tiramasu, it is simply to die for and just melts in your mouth, I challenge anyone not to absolutely love it now I have perfected it, do you have any ideas for my next culinary challenge???"

 

Do you see ow the second sounds far more inviting and tempting? Its more exciting? More human and not so closed off>>

 

Even in these bars you hate asking someone where the loo is then once you have been come back and thank them as you were dying for a pee and thought you were going to burst, your name is John Doe by the way whats theirs? Well good to meet you and again thank you for your help its really appreciated. If they don't respond back initiating conversation then just wonder off happily you have interacted with another person!!!