Boundaries in your relationship

[Mr Carson]

Another thread has triggered something in my mind about boundaries in a committed relationship.

 

The thread in ''Infidelity'' of a wife cheating 15 of 18 years of marriage, true or not makes one think. like finding out your friend has testicular cancer, as soon as you can you check your man parts for lumps.

 

I don't think my wife has ever been unfaithful, that I know of anyway. Once a few years back we were in a tough patch in our marriage and I just had a gut feeling there was something going on, but no proof. I asked she said absolutely not so I accepted it.

 

The thing with boundaries is, I feel my wife pushes them with men. She's a very outgoing, gregarious person, It's who she is, before we met and after. She's a super friendly person with men and women, but she fails to see the boundary between friendly slightly flirty and drawing men in where they think she wants more than just friends. I know we all like attention from the opposite sex, everyone wants to feel attractive but I feel she goes too far.

 

My wife is 5'4 115 and pretty she takes good care of herself and stays in shape, we both do. She dresses to the nines every day always has and I know men notice her, and I'm proud she's my wife.

 

In the past I've told her she's out of line, crosses the boundary of what I feel comfortable with. Most of the time she just says I'm being over protective or I have no reason to be jealous. But It's not just jealousy, I feel disrespected and she fails to recognize how it make me feel. Flirting is something most people do, I understand that. I flirt sometimes and I'm not trying to make a mole hill a mountain but I've grown very tired of it lately.

 

How can I make her see my point without turning this into a war. She will always be outgoing and friendly I don't want to change that, but how do we draw boundary lines we both can live with?

[MM1234]

First of all, flirting is not something people just do. I don't flirt with other men & I don't try to keep them engaged to get their attention. I am a friendly person but I know how to keep a healthy distance from the opposite sex.

 

Can you give specific examples of the deliberate flirting your wife does?

[jen1447]

As long as you trust she's not actually cheating, you set the boundaries by adjusting yours to fit hers. You're the one w/the issue, so expecting her to change is bscly asking her to change who she is. That's unfair and unreasonable imo.

[Mr Carson]

First of all, flirting is not something people just do. I don't flirt with other men & I don't try to keep them engaged to get their attention. I am a friendly person but I know how to keep a healthy distance from the opposite sex.

 

Can you give specific examples of the deliberate flirting your wife does?

 

Most times it's mild, just too much attention being paid or little sexual innuendos she says she didn't ''mean it that way'' but she's not stupid or naive. She seems to always get in situations form being too friendly with men and then some guy says hey baby lets F*** and she's all put out, like why would you even think you could talk to me that way. She has a soft spot for older people and even old men pickup on it. Just the other day she said an old man she was talking to grabber her the wrong way and again shes all putout, why would he do that I was just being friendly.

[GorillaTheater]

Carson, you're not alone, but I don't know how much help I can be.

 

Like yours, my wife is very bubbly, outgoing and friendly. It's one of the things that attracted her to me in the first place. She draws people, including men. And sometimes she too crosses the line. I remember one occasion about three years ago where I felt she was just a wee bit too flirty with one of our friends. It WAS in front of both spouses (for what that's worth) but his wife and I traded a look that told me that this wasn't just me reading things wrong. I talked to my wife about how I really wasn't okay with what went down, and it went pretty damn poorly. She had two prongs of attack: one, that it must be me projecting and maybe I was the one who was out there up to no good and two, "Well, I guess that means I can't have any friends, then". Keep in mind that I was very deliberately cool, calm, and collected during the entire conversation, and savvy enough to know that I was getting a bucketful of Cheater Speak from my wife. My wife, of all people.

 

I went into Watching mode, but never found any signs that she was or had been cheating, but I'll never know for sure unless something else pops up. I guess the point of all of this is to say pay attention. If she cheats, she cheats, and there's little you can do to prevent it. About all you can do is be the best YOU you can be. Part of that is having the emotional and mental stability to do whatever needs to be done if and when the time comes.

 

It ain't a Disney frame of mind, but I'd say it's one that will serve you well, whatever happens.

[Mr Carson]

As long as you trust she's not actually cheating, you set the boundaries by adjusting yours to fit hers. You're the one w/the issue, so expecting her to change is bscly asking her to change who she is. That's unfair and unreasonable imo.

 

I agree, and I don't want to change who she is but there has to be a limit, and if her actions make me feel disrespected then it's not just my issue, it's our issue and we need to work through it. We've been married for almost 25 years and for the most part it's not been too much of a problem, but for some reason it's been bothering me more lately. So then maybe, Jen your correct on that too, maybe it is just me? I guess that's why I'm asking for input

[carhill]

Compare the stories versus what you observe personally in social interactions. Consistent?

 

If you're consistently feeling disrespected, then the marriage has an issue which bears scrutiny, both the mechanics of her behaviors and those of your feelings of being disrespected. The solution, in general, is usually somewhere in the middle. If communication fails, get professional help.

[MM1234]

Most times it's mild, just too much attention being paid or little sexual innuendos she says she didn't ''mean it that way'' but she's not stupid or naive. She seems to always get in situations form being too friendly with men and then some guy says hey baby lets F*** and she's all put out, like why would you even think you could talk to me that way. She has a soft spot for older people and even old men pickup on it. Just the other day she said an old man she was talking to grabber her the wrong way and again shes all putout, why would he do that I was just being friendly.

 

OK, gotcha, I am now getting a feel for the type of flirting you are talking about. Sexual innuendos are completely inappropriate when talking to the opposite sex...point.blank.period. If you wife isn't stupid or naive, she knows exactly what she is doing.

 

Does she stand a little too close to other men when talking to them? Does she touch them on the arm or back a lot while talking to them (& smiling in their face)? Does she laugh louder at their little jokes (that are starting to get inappropriate)?

 

It sounds like your wife has gotten so used to acting this way, that she simply doesn't know how to undo her actions because she refuses to look at herself objectively. She's using denial instead of checking her own actions.

 

When you try to talk to her about it....what are her reactions to what you are saying?

[jen1447]

I agree, and I don't want to change who she is but there has to be a limit, and if her actions make me feel disrespected then it's not just my issue, it's our issue and we need to work through it. We've been married for almost 25 years and for the most part it's not been too much of a problem, but for some reason it's been bothering me more lately. So then maybe, Jen your correct on that too, maybe it is just me? I guess that's why I'm asking for input

 

I'm not beating you up here but imo it is just you, simply bc she's not intentionally trying to seduce people and she was likely socialized differently.

 

Might help to look at what effect it would have on her to change to suit you. My guess is she'd become a bit walled off and resentful. Is that what you want, either for you or her?

 

Just trust her and let her be the beautiful, outgoing woman you fell in love with.

[Mr Carson]

Carson, you're not alone, but I don't know how much help I can be.

 

Like yours, my wife is very bubbly, outgoing and friendly. It's one of the things that attracted her to me in the first place. She draws people, including men. And sometimes she too crosses the line. I remember one occasion about three years ago where I felt she was just a wee bit too flirty with one of our friends. It WAS in front of both spouses (for what that's worth) but his wife and I traded a look that told me that this wasn't just me reading things wrong. I talked to my wife about how I really wasn't okay with what went down, and it went pretty damn poorly. She had two prongs of attack: one, that it must be me projecting and maybe I was the one who was out there up to no good and two, "Well, I guess that means I can't have any friends, then". Keep in mind that I was very deliberately cool, calm, and collected during the entire conversation, and savvy enough to know that I was getting a bucketful of Cheater Speak from my wife. My wife, of all people.

 

I went into Watching mode, but never found any signs that she was or had been cheating, but I'll never know for sure unless something else pops up. I guess the point of all of this is to say pay attention. If she cheats, she cheats, and there's little you can do to prevent it. About all you can do is be the best YOU you can be. Part of that is having the emotional and mental stability to do whatever needs to be done if and when the time comes.

 

It ain't a Disney frame of mind, but I'd say it's one that will serve you well, whatever happens.

 

GT

 

haha...I got that one too!

 

OK, gotcha, I am now getting a feel for the type of flirting you are talking about. Sexual innuendos are completely inappropriate when talking to the opposite sex...point.blank.period. If you wife isn't stupid or naive, she knows exactly what she is doing.

 

Does she stand a little too close to other men when talking to them? Does she touch them on the arm or back a lot while talking to them (& smiling in their face)? Does she laugh louder at their little jokes (that are starting to get inappropriate)?

 

It sounds like your wife has gotten so used to acting this way, that she simply doesn't know how to undo her actions because she refuses to look at herself objectively. She's using denial instead of checking her own actions.

 

When you try to talk to her about it....what are her reactions to what you are saying?

 

I don't think she does much touching but all the above. And I agree about the innuendos and that's the crux of it I guess...just stop it.

 

 

 

 

I'm not beating you up here but imo it is just you, simply bc she's not intentionally trying to seduce people and she was likely socialized differently.

 

Might help to look at what effect it would have on her to change to suit you. My guess is she'd become a bit walled off and resentful. Is that what you want, either for you or her?

 

Just trust her and let her be the beautiful, outgoing woman you fell in love with.

 

jen

 

She definitely was socialized differently and I'm sure that's a big part of it for her. Her family talks about things at the dinner table that my family wouldn't talk to the dr about...lol And I know your not beating on me and if you are I'm a big boy let me have it

[jen1447]

Ok. [doubles Carson over w/a punch to the gut]

[Mr Carson]

Compare the stories versus what you observe personally in social interactions. Consistent?

 

If you're consistently feeling disrespected, then the marriage has an issue which bears scrutiny, both the mechanics of her behaviors and those of your feelings of being disrespected. The solution, in general, is usually somewhere in the middle. If communication fails, get professional help.

 

carhill

 

I cant say I feel disrespected on a daily basis or anything, and a lot of the things I know are because she tells me about what happened, but I know she works with a lot of men and I'm sure she doesn't tell everything. The sexual innuendos and the being overly attentive to other men are what make me feel disrespected. The problem is her lack of understanding of how it makes me feel. I really don't want to do the tit for tat thing but she needs to take it seriously. She still brings up how I let another woman give me a neck rub in front of her and that happened 20 years ago, so she knows how it made her feel but can't seem to relate it to my feelings.

[autumnnight]

She has a soft spot for older people and even old men pickup on it. Just the other day she said an old man she was talking to grabber her the wrong way and again shes all putout, why would he do that I was just being friendly.

 

I can't speak to the rest of it, but it is pretty common for this to happen with old men (if you are meaning serious senior citizen old). They were first of all socialized in a different time, where the boss still smacked the secretary's backside (not right, but it was what it was). Also, as men (or women) age to that much older point and normal dementia (because all people have some loss of memory/socialization as they age), their boundaries become looser, and they don't really even realize it.

 

As far as the rest, I am an outgoing person. I try not to ever let something slip out that could be misconstrued, but it happens sometimes. Unless I know the person well, I try to avoid remarks about their dress or appearance, give strong compliments, or make any kind of physical contact, even a swat on the arm or something. That stuff might be obvious to many, but I grew up in an affectionate, demonstrative family, and I express myself easily. So I have to think about things like that.

 

Another thing I used to do was whenever I was with my SO, I tried to maintain some physical contact or proximity to him, such as holding hands or looping my arm through his. That way even if a little too much laughter or a silly remark came out, our "claim" to each other was visibly and tangibly staked, so to speak. In other words, "I may be bantering with you, but I'm HIS!"

[Mr Carson]

I can't speak to the rest of it, but it is pretty common for this to happen with old men (if you are meaning serious senior citizen old). They were first of all socialized in a different time, where the boss still smacked the secretary's backside (not right, but it was what it was). Also, as men (or women) age to that much older point and normal dementia (because all people have some loss of memory/socialization as they age), their boundaries become looser, and they don't really even realize it.

 

As far as the rest, I am an outgoing person. I try not to ever let something slip out that could be misconstrued, but it happens sometimes. Unless I know the person well, I try to avoid remarks about their dress or appearance, give strong compliments, or make any kind of physical contact, even a swat on the arm or something. That stuff might be obvious to many, but I grew up in an affectionate, demonstrative family, and I express myself easily. So I have to think about things like that.

 

Another thing I used to do was whenever I was with my SO, I tried to maintain some physical contact or proximity to him, such as holding hands or looping my arm through his. That way even if a little too much laughter or a silly remark came out, our "claim" to each other was visibly and tangibly staked, so to speak. In other words, "I may be bantering with you, but I'm HIS!"

 

Funny how those old men get younger every year since I just turned 50. The thing I've reminded her of more that a few times is a 70 year old man can be a horny 18 year old in his mind. And that's my point, she just refuses to except it for what it is, she see a sweet old man not a horny old man. Sure many are sweet old men but you can't tell whats really on their mind, hence the need for boundaries. She does not like it when a woman flirts with me, but she can flirt like a minx and then down play(gaslight) and say it's all in my head, and that's what really bothers me. And I can't help but think, if this is what she does in front of me what does she do when I'm not around? it's playing with me and I don't like where my mind goes.

[pteromom]

I agree, and I don't want to change who she is but there has to be a limit, and if her actions make me feel disrespected then it's not just my issue, it's our issue and we need to work through it. We've been married for almost 25 years and for the most part it's not been too much of a problem, but for some reason it's been bothering me more lately.

 

There can't be a limit to who someone is though. This is who your wife is. She is a flirty person. She's always been a flirty person. You met her as a flirty person, and asking her to change who she is 25 years later is a bit much.

 

Perhaps you should focus on WHY it is bothering you more lately. Is your gut saying something might be going on? Are you not aging as well as she is, and you are feeling insecure - like she could pull a younger "hotter" dude if she wanted to? Has the way she flirts changed - like maybe instead of just doing it for fun, she's doing it in a way that she KNOWS it is twisting a knife into you - like revenge for resentment or something?

 

Obviously if you are feeling disrespected, your wife should listen to your concerns. But I am wondering more why this is a problem after 25 years with her. And I wonder if the problem is really coming from inside you.

[Mr Carson]

There can't be a limit to who someone is though. This is who your wife is. She is a flirty person. She's always been a flirty person. You met her as a flirty person, and asking her to change who she is 25 years later is a bit much.

 

Perhaps you should focus on WHY it is bothering you more lately. Is your gut saying something might be going on? Are you not aging as well as she is, and you are feeling insecure - like she could pull a younger "hotter" dude if she wanted to? Has the way she flirts changed - like maybe instead of just doing it for fun, she's doing it in a way that she KNOWS it is twisting a knife into you - like revenge for resentment or something?

 

Obviously if you are feeling disrespected, your wife should listen to your concerns. But I am wondering more why this is a problem after 25 years with her. And I wonder if the problem is really coming from inside you.

 

Maybe you just nailed it, I'm trying to sort my root feelings and that one tingled when you touched it

[autumnnight]

And I can't help but think, if this is what she does in front of me what does she do when I'm not around?

 

Honestly, she is probably exactly the same as when you are around. Part of her personality is to be open, effusive, outgoing. BUT she can learn to incorporate some simple checks that would reassure you and be some good boundaries.

[Mr Carson]

Honestly, she is probably exactly the same as when you are around. Part of her personality is to be open, effusive, outgoing. BUT she can learn to incorporate some simple checks that would reassure you and be some good boundaries.

 

Thanks autumn

 

Could you possibly elaborate on this? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

[pondhawk]

Instead of accusing her of being flirty, can you approach it like this... "When you did this ______, it made me feel disrespected as a good husband."

Then maybe you can describe how it looks to other men, that you must be such a poor husband she needs attention from someone else.

 

Hope it gets better.

[Mr Carson]

Instead of accusing her of being flirty, can you approach it like this... "When you did this ______, it made me feel disrespected as a good husband."

Then maybe you can describe how it looks to other men, that you must be such a poor husband she needs attention from someone else.

 

Hope it gets better.

 

I definitely learn accusing gets me nowhere. I have tried to show her how it looks to other men when MY wife flirts with them. I've actually had a few men that didn't know us give me a look...are you ok with this. I think they felt uncomfortable with how she was acting towards them, and their wives more that a few women don't care for my wife I'm pretty sure because of how she acts. Many times I just swallow my pride and let it go, but like I said for whatever reason I'm growing weary of it.

[pondhawk]

Many times I just swallow my pride and let it go, but like I said for whatever reason I'm growing weary of it.

 

I would too.

She needs to know how serious this effects you.

[jen1447]

It's starting to sound a bit more egregious than you said originally ....what's she doing, going around grinding her tits and ass into everybody?

[pteromom]

Maybe SHE is feeling insecure about aging too, and is trying to get validation that she is still attractive?

[Mr Carson]

It's starting to sound a bit more egregious than you said originally ....what's she doing, going around grinding her tits and ass into everybody?

 

haha No, grinding T&A on some guy would be way way over the line. But other men's wives see the flirting too, so I know it's not just me that feels it.

 

 

Maybe SHE is feeling insecure about aging too, and is trying to get validation that she is still attractive?

 

 

Possible except this has been going on for years? It's not always over the top it's just like sometimes something comes over her and it goes to far.

[carhill]

carhill

 

I cant say I feel disrespected on a daily basis or anything, and a lot of the things I know are because she tells me about what happened, but I know she works with a lot of men and I'm sure she doesn't tell everything. The sexual innuendos and the being overly attentive to other men are what make me feel disrespected. The problem is her lack of understanding of how it makes me feel. I really don't want to do the tit for tat thing but she needs to take it seriously. She still brings up how I let another woman give me a neck rub in front of her and that happened 20 years ago, so she knows how it made her feel but can't seem to relate it to my feelings.

So, when you and she are at a party and other men are present, how does it go, in front of you? Is she sexual with other men?

 

By consistent, I mean the behaviors are consistent over time, not necessarily daily, but the same over months and years of interactions; essentially, it's an entrenched behavioral set.

 

My best friend's daughter is like this, mainly due to needing consistent attention, which she admits to. She's been married 25 years but has done what I call 'the penis path' to easy attention for decades now. I've known her since a teenager. Essentially, using feminine sexuality to gather male attention, even if not interested in affairs. Some women are like that. Husband's responses vary. Her H is pretty laid back.

 

Setting boundaries is an individual thing. Each marriage is unique.