Boundaries in your relationship

[Mr Carson]

So, when you and she are at a party and other men are present, how does it go, in front of you? Is she sexual with other men?

 

By consistent, I mean the behaviors are consistent over time, not necessarily daily, but the same over months and years of interactions; essentially, it's an entrenched behavioral set.

 

My best friend's daughter is like this, mainly due to needing consistent attention, which she admits to. She's been married 25 years but has done what I call 'the penis path' to easy attention for decades now. I've known her since a teenager. Essentially, using feminine sexuality to gather male attention, even if not interested in affairs. Some women are like that. Husband's responses vary. Her H is pretty laid back.

 

Setting boundaries is an individual thing. Each marriage is unique.

 

 

The penis path exactly what you said, only she denies it. It's been very consistent behavior over the last 25 years.

[GoBlue]

I can definitely understand your view - I too am a 50 y/o man and I am single. Many women have no idea how their "nice friendly" behavior effects a man. When a woman walks up to you and is very nice, maybe a little touchy, and willing to use sexual innuendos, there are assumptions that are made. We often think that this is their way of "breaking the ice." The real issue here, however, is the relationship between you and your wife. I hear the argument that she was this way her entire life "and it's not right for you to expect her to change." I grasp the concept, agree with it to an extent, and acknowledge that you do have some responsibility because these were traits that she exhibited from the beginning. And Yet, these most recent incidents that she has experienced should be a wake-up-call. I am sure she would not like it too much if she shared with you how a certain thing you did affected her and made her feel "disrespected" - but you completely discounted her feelings and told her she was "reading too much into it."

 

Open and honest communication is the foundation for intimacy and commitment in marriage. The one thing that will shut that process down quicker than anything else is to invalidate your Spouse's feelings. Have the two of you ever seen a counselor? Have you considered letting her know that you are considering this course of action? There is a great book I highly recommend titled Boundaries in Marriage by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend. Maybe starting there could help you as you move forward. The last thing you want to do is to let all of this build up until there is some kind of crisis. Better to take the chance and share your heart and talk to her openly. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[autumnnight]

Thanks autumn

 

Could you possibly elaborate on this? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

I think on a good night when you all are in a good place, you might want to broach the topic in a very neutral kind of way:

 

"Honey, one of the things I love about you is how open and fun and friendly you are because.....(maybe she helps bring you out of your shell, you're proud of the kind of friend she is, etc).

 

However, I know we've talked about how sometimes I feel uncomfortable because it seem like you are flirting, and because I know you don't want to hurt me on purpose, you aren't sure exactly what I'm talking about. Can we talk about this some?"

 

Then you kind of talk a bit with each other and maybe say:

 

"You are such a bubbly person, I really don't even think you realize that it makes me uncomfortable. But THESE are some things that bother me and hurt." Then you give maybe 3 examples at the most. "Is there a way we could work together on X?"

 

Or if the example if specific, like she tends to touch a man's arm when she talks to him, you could say, "I know it's just your way of connecting, but it bothers me when you touch other men while having a conversation. Would try to be really aware of that?"

 

With that kind of approach, you are validating her personality, focusing on the effect it has on YOU, working together to problem solve rather than saying "change yourself!" And there isn't an accusation.

 

For people who are introverted of very deliberate in their interactions, it might be easy to assume a bubbly person IS doing something worthy of accusation, that they ARE intentionally disrespecting or hurting or trolling or whatever. Whether an introvert believes it or not, 9 times out of 10, a bubbly extrovert is NOT intentionally flirting and is NOT "trying something."

 

Practical requests work best:

 

I like it when we hold hands in public

Maybe we could both try not to comment on other people's looks

I don't feel comfortable talking about personal things with our acquaintances.

 

These are tangible things she can put in her memory bank.

[autumnnight]

One more thing, and I think this is important.

 

I do not know your religious background, so this may be moot.

 

In a lot of conservative circles, there is a lot of emphasis on how a woman "does this" to a man or a woman "makes a man feel that."

 

Be very aware of not making it HER responsible for keeping other men straight.

 

For example, I think it is important to dress modestly for ME. BUT I chafe at the idea that I need to dress modestly because poor lusty men can't help themselves and I am "defrauding" them if my knee shows.

 

If her friendliness IS innocent "Oh, it's so good to see you! Wow, you must be really smart (if the guy says he works for NASA)!" Those are not sexual remarks. If the man then gets inappropriate, that is on HIM, not her.

[carhill]

The penis path exactly what you said, only she denies it. It's been very consistent behavior over the last 25 years.

Heh, yep, understand.... as an anecdote, normally I think the behavior of a friend's wife to be completely beyond boundaries when she's rubbing her breasts on my arm and providing, whoa, way beyond PG rated cleavage shots while whispering in breathless tones but long history tells me she's merely in the mania stage of BP2 so I don't pay it any mind but let her H know she's getting a little forward so he can manage her. Another guy, pretty much any normal red-blooded male, would think she's coming onto him sexually.

 

Personally, with a lot of life experiences like the above under my belt, I don't put much stock in a woman's 'friendliness' as being sexual in nature. However, that said, IME the married ladies certainly have, historically anyway, appeared far more 'friendly' than their single counterparts. However, at the time, except with friend's wives, I don't know if they're single or married but default as married since that assumption is rarely wrong.

 

When things have crossed over into more overt propositioning, though rare, I suggest they either speak with their H or a counselor. I think of it as helping to enforce marital boundaries. Paying it forward, so to speak. MC helped wake me up to clearer boundaries.

[autumnnight]

I think a lot of married women incorrectly assume it is okay to be more friendly because "I'm married, so he knows I don't mean anything by it." Yeah, I know, but I think some women think that way.

[jen1447]

haha No, grinding T&A on some guy would be way way over the line. But other men's wives see the flirting too, so I know it's not just me that feels it.

Ok now I'm sorta back to my original take. The perception of flirting can be very subjective, bc flirting itself is usually a subtle thing. So ....

 

If she was mashing tits in faces yeah, if she's batting her eyelashes, not so much.

[Mr Carson]

Unfortunately I can't get into this further tonight. But I would like to think you guys and ladies for your kind comments, and I certainly plan to delve into this more tomorrow.

[Lois_Griffin]

She seems to always get in situations form being too friendly with men and then some guy says hey baby lets F*** and she's all put out, like why would you even think you could talk to me that way.

Holy sh*t. What would one have to say in order for a guy to assume it was ok to ask a woman that?

 

I highly doubt she's getting that response from just saying something 'cute' or slightly flirtatious. She's eliciting that crap on purpose. I've been told many times I'm too nice and that does get misconstrued by guys who end up showing an interest in me. But I haven't had a guy say 'let's f*ck!' just because I was being too nice. Asking for my number or asking me out was usually the end result. You have to really be laying it on if someone's assuming it's ok to ask you to have sex with them.

 

She ain't as innocent as she'd like you to believe.

[autumnnight]

Holy sh*t. What would one have to say in order for a guy to assume it was ok to ask a woman that?

 

I highly doubt she's getting that response from just saying something 'cute' or slightly flirtatious. She's eliciting that crap on purpose. I've been told many times I'm too nice and that does get misconstrued by guys who end up showing an interest in me. But I haven't had a guy say 'let's f*ck!' just because I was being too nice. Asking for my number or asking me out was usually the end result. You have to really be laying it on if someone's assuming it's ok to ask you to have sex with them.

 

She ain't as innocent as she'd like you to believe.

'You have no idea if this is true. This kind of stuff gets so old.

[Spectre]

A grown married woman should be aware of boundaries by now, ask yourself why your wife apparently lacks that awareness? Being outgoing isn't an excuse. There is a difference between outgoing and disrespectful.

 

Also as someone else said: flirting doesn't just happen, you choose to do it. Why does a married woman choose to flirt with other men? Why, instead of acknowledging the way her behavior makes her husband feel, is she just brushing it off by saying he is overprotective? It's not about protection, it is about respect.

 

She is married, she is an adult, she doesn't get to plead ignorance like some teenage girl who isn't aware yet of the effect she has on men. People are so quick to jump and defend this woman, but the problem is it is obvious from the OP's posts this has been an ongoing problem. Women who are married just shouldn't be having "ongoing" flirting problems. There is being outgoing and gregarious and then there is the behavior described in this topic.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Spectre

[Mr Carson]

I want to say thanks not thinks to everyone, I hate auto spell on my phone.

 

First I think I need to clear somethings up in this thread, I don't think I'm being totally fair to my wife. I love my W dearly and I truly believe she dearly loves me. Is she perfect no, but I don't even want to go into my flaws we don't have that much time. At this time in our marriage, I don't have any suspicions she's cheating. Bluntly my W is a knockout and would have no trouble getting some on the side if she wanted, without over the top flirting. She is a very kind person who loves people old, young, kids and babies.

 

I would like to also clear up the ''hey baby lets F***'' thing. I ad-libbed on that. I don't know what the guy really said, she wouldn't tell me, just it was very offensive and crude and she was afraid I would hunt the guy down. Men can be *********s. She was just in home depot and some guy she smiled at and said good morning to followed her all over the store and to the parking lot. She was so afraid she almost ran back in the store, that's NOT her fault and I in no way blame her for that.

 

So that being said, yes she uses carhills ''penis path'' to get attention and now it bugs me. I can’t say I've ever liked it, but now I'm more sensitive with less tolerance for it...why? I just turned 50, my hair started falling out 10 years ago, and she looks HOT. Don't get me wrong I take good care of myself, I'm in better shape now than when I was 25. I shave my head now and have a goatee, just the other day my W told me I rock my look, so I know she likes it. I dress nice, smell nice and I am nice. I have a good job and take care of her the kids and the house, so I don't think she has any complaints, if she does she not voices it.

 

So now that we know that it's me that's changed (as some of the ladies picked up on right-away) where do I go from here? The chink in my armor is the sexual innuendos, I don't feel I can live with it anymore and want her to stop. I flirt sometimes I don't push it but I know when I'm doing it, so a little flirting friendly banter with other men I can live with, I do it too.

 

autumn gave some good advice any other input or thoughts would be appreciated.

[autumnnight]

I'm sorry, OP, if my last post or so was vehement. I just get sick of the whole "she's a cheating whore" knee jerk assumptions all. The. Time.

[Mr Carson]

I'm sorry, OP, if my last post or so was vehement. I just get sick of the whole "she's a cheating whore" knee jerk assumptions all. The. Time.

 

TY but I didn't help the situation, so NP on my end

[jen1447]

autumn gave some good advice any other input or thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Would you be prepared for some serious 'man up' suggestions?

[Mr Carson]

Would you be prepared for some serious 'man up' suggestions?

 

I would love your take, I told you jen let me have it...

[Popsicle]

I advise you to stop reading the infidelity section.

[jen1447]

I would love your take, I told you jen let me have it...

 

Ok ....

 

Your lady is a sexual woman. She expresses her sexuality outwardly in her interaction with people. She's not trying to bang them (from what you say).

 

You need to accept it and deal with it, not make her change or back it off. Doing so would be inhibiting to her, and she doesn't deserve that. Sorry, but this is a woman's world now, and this is our prerogative. (Again, not deceit or infidelity, just being sexual.)

 

As to how you deal ....I don't know the inside of guys' minds so I really can't tell you, but I'm hoping you can dig down deep, be happy for who she is and her sexual identity, embrace that, even celebrate it, and just let it happen. Think of her as your sexy sexpot who gets everyone all riled up bc she's so awesome but only you get the goodies. Separate the actions themselves from the person you love, let her have her fun, and be the cat-who-ate-the-canary. Transform the insecurity into pride.

 

Easier said than done I'm sure and you'll have to work on it, but if you can be that guy - be man enough to allow her to be the unabashed woman she really is - I'll bet she'll love and value you even more.

 

I'm not just talking out of my butt here. I'm much the same way as your wife honestly (not really thru exaggerated flirting but I've just got sex coming out of my pores lol and everyone picks that up), and my BF has accepted it not just for me but as part of his own identity thru his association with me. It can be a beautiful thing if you man up and let it.

 

It takes a real man to let a woman be a real woman!

[Mr Carson]

Ok ....

 

Your lady is a sexual woman. She expresses her sexuality outwardly in her interaction with people. She's not trying to bang them (from what you say).

 

You need to accept it and deal with it, not make her change or back it off. Doing so would be inhibiting to her, and she doesn't deserve that. Sorry, but this is a woman's world now, and this is our prerogative. (Again, not deceit or infidelity, just being sexual.)

 

As to how you deal ....I don't know the inside of guys' minds so I really can't tell you, but I'm hoping you can dig down deep, be happy for who she is and her sexual identity, embrace that, even celebrate it, and just let it happen. Think of her as your sexy sexpot who gets everyone all riled up bc she's so awesome but only you get the goodies. Separate the actions themselves from the person you love, let her have her fun, and be the cat-who-ate-the-canary. Transform the insecurity into pride.

 

Easier said than done I'm sure and you'll have to work on it, but if you can be that guy - be man enough to allow her to be the unabashed woman she really is - I'll bet she'll love and value you even more.

 

I'm not just talking out of my butt here. I'm much the same way as your wife honestly (not really thru exaggerated flirting but I've just got sex coming out of my pores lol and everyone picks that up), and my BF has accepted it not just for me but as part of his own identity thru his association with me. It can be a beautiful thing if you man up and let it.

 

It takes a real man to let a woman be a real woman!

 

 

jen in a lot of ways I see your point, and I can try but I do need to have a talk with her about it. She makes all the innuendos too me also and I like it, so I think you are correct it's who she is. But if I have to ''man up'' and let her be herself then she has to OWN IT dammit and stop playing innocent with me about her actions. Is this fair? For 25 years now I have let it go I think I've proven I'm an easygoing MAN but enough is enough already!

 

OK...I took a deep breath

[jen1447]

^ That's not manning up, it's being a little b*tch.

[Clay]

I fought my xW for years over her flirting. In my case she was a cheater. I do see how it drives people crazy. I know with my past I would never put up with it now. I know I am tainted do to my experiences but I also believe some things should only be shared with your SO. If your SO doesn't agree or dismisses this as a issue it would probably be a deal breaker for me. Its not just about the potential to cheat. Its about respecting yourself and the person you are in a relationship with.

 

I gave my xW a ride to her home from work one day. My wife did not freak out but she was very uncomfortable with it. We talked and now I don't put myself in any kind of a position like that. I do it because I love and respect my wife and I don't ever want her to feel uncomfortable about it.

 

Clay

[Mr Carson]

 

In a lot of conservative circles, there is a lot of emphasis on how a woman "does this" to a man or a woman "makes a man feel that."

 

Be very aware of not making it HER responsible for keeping other men straight.

 

For example, I think it is important to dress modestly for ME. BUT I chafe at the idea that I need to dress modestly because poor lusty men can't help themselves and I am "defrauding" them if my knee shows.

 

 

haha autumn I'll send you a pic of my knee if you send me a pic of yours I must say my W does a good job of dressing sexy without dressing sexy, if that makes sense. She NEVER shows cleavage but has a perfect balance in her fashion. She does wear skirts and dresses most of the time, which I love.

 

 

^ That's not manning up, it's being a little b*tch.

 

 

jen I hope you mean her and not me? I guess I'm a little dense..lol

[MM1234]

jen in a lot of ways I see your point, and I can try but I do need to have a talk with her about it. She makes all the innuendos too me also and I like it, so I think you are correct it's who she is. But if I have to ''man up'' and let her be herself then she has to OWN IT dammit and stop playing innocent with me about her actions. Is this fair? For 25 years now I have let it go I think I've proven I'm an easygoing MAN but enough is enough already!

 

OK...I took a deep breath

 

Mr.Carson,

 

I don't think you are being unreasonable wanting your wife to at least stop with the sexual innuendos. They are inappropriate point blank period. Any person (especially your wife) should be able to understand at least that much.

 

I am a social butterfly by nature while my DH is more reserved. I still have plenty of respect for my DH to not say things that he would deem disrespectful. When I am chatting people up, I always make sure that my body language says I am with my DH (I stay close to him, hold on to his arm, etc.). I don't make sexual jokes or innuendos around other men. One can still be bubbly, fun, social, & charismatic without all of the sexual innuendos - that's how you attract attention you DON'T want.

 

I say have that conversation with your wife. Just tell her that the sexual innuendos make you uncomfortable when out in social settings. That doesn't mean you want to hold her back from being the charismatic person she is, you're simply asking for a little respect.

[mandymor]

 

The thing with boundaries is, I feel my wife pushes them with men. She's a very outgoing, gregarious person, It's who she is, before we met and after. She's a super friendly person with men and women, but she fails to see the boundary between friendly slightly flirty and drawing men in where they think she wants more than just friends.

 

My wife is 5'4 115 and pretty she takes good care of herself and stays in shape, we both do. She dresses to the nines every day always has and I know men notice her, and I'm proud she's my wife.

 

She will always be outgoing and friendly I don't want to change that, but how do we draw boundary lines we both can live with?

 

File this one under, you knew what you were getting yourself into before you got married. I am the same way. I'm very outgoing, and I'm very friendly to everyone I meet. It does at times get mistaken for more than it is because I get hit on by guys all the time.

 

My husband knows how I am and he knows I'm not going to act on it so we haven't had any problems. I know if he told me to change the way I am it would really change me as a person. So you can either deal with your wife being the person she is or you can try to change her and hope that it doesn't affect the way she feels towards you. The latter being a very dangerous road to go down.

[OldRover]

Ok ....

 

Your lady is a sexual woman. She expresses her sexuality outwardly in her interaction with people. She's not trying to bang them (from what you say).

 

You need to accept it and deal with it, not make her change or back it off. Doing so would be inhibiting to her, and she doesn't deserve that. Sorry, but this is a woman's world now, and this is our prerogative. (Again, not deceit or infidelity, just being sexual.)

 

As to how you deal ....I don't know the inside of guys' minds so I really can't tell you, but I'm hoping you can dig down deep, be happy for who she is and her sexual identity, embrace that, even celebrate it, and just let it happen. Think of her as your sexy sexpot who gets everyone all riled up bc she's so awesome but only you get the goodies. Separate the actions themselves from the person you love, let her have her fun, and be the cat-who-ate-the-canary. Transform the insecurity into pride.

 

Easier said than done I'm sure and you'll have to work on it, but if you can be that guy - be man enough to allow her to be the unabashed woman she really is - I'll bet she'll love and value you even more.

 

I'm not just talking out of my butt here. I'm much the same way as your wife honestly (not really thru exaggerated flirting but I've just got sex coming out of my pores lol and everyone picks that up), and my BF has accepted it not just for me but as part of his own identity thru his association with me. It can be a beautiful thing if you man up and let it.

 

It takes a real man to let a woman be a real woman!

 

I'll STRONGLY DISAGREE with this... no offense, Jen.....

 

But there must be boundaries, and there is absolutely NO reason that a married person should have sexual flirting with the opposite sex, and it goes both ways. There is no need to get some other man excited and give him the impression that there is sexual interest which is exactly what she is doing. If she's that hot, she will get men's attention just by being there, and a little light social flirting could be in order... but not the sex stuff.

 

And, there's no reason that the OP should have to worry about this... totally unfair to him.

 

 

 

This is NOT a woman's world... it is both a man's and a woman's world and both must behave appropriately in a married relationship (and a committed relationship as well).

 

It's so easy to let that kind of sexual flirting easily go to the next step... and the next and the affair. Now, if that's what one wants, so be it, but not the OP. I've seen it SO MANY TIMES. And I seen it lead to the affair, too.

 

If I were single looking to pick up a woman, and got sexual flirting, there would be no doubt in my mind that she was interested and if I liked her, I'd pursue it. I'd be pissed if she was just playing with the intention of getting men excited and then throwing cold water on them. That's lousy.