Jelious and confused about relationship boundaries

[Bunnylove]

I wanted to start a topic asking people what thier views were on boundaries in a relationship. I have only just broken up with my lover after over a year 1/2. We had many arguments about where our boundaries were and evetually this led to too many differences of opinion. I want to tell you of the things he did which HE thought were cool but just hurtfull to me. Guess i need clarity.

 

We met and fell in love and we continued to stay in touch when he left to go back to USA. He told me he loved me and I felt the same. I bought my first ticket to go to see him. A week before I was leaving he decided to talk to me about the girl he was dating. It came as a huge shock to me. For some weird reason he thought i knew all about her. He was dating her before he met me and after meeting me he went home and slept with her. I wanted to end the relationship there but I had my ticket already and he begged me for another chance. He ended it with her and we continued to fall in love. THEN jeliousy and distrust kicked in. After a blow like that i knew it would take some time to trust him again. We discussed our boundaries. He says he wanted to be fully commited to me at that point and we spoke about what was cheating and what wasn't. We both agreed that kissing for example was cheating. But then he was doing things that began to worry me. He has MANY ex lovers and girlfriends and they were everywhere. He would like to stay in touch on a regular basis and still say things like "i love you" and calling them 'Hon' or 'Honey' and giving them a peck on the lips goodbye. I am pretty cool with SOME of these things but it was happening all the time.

 

He is a musician for modern dance classes and was surrounded by women all day long in tight clothing. I wouldnt mind so much but he was very open about the fact that he "loves" women. He is a very sexual person and likes to express that with other women too. For example he would flirt and was homest about his flirting. He could find alomost ANY women attractive and would regularly tell me when he thought a girl was hot or cute. He would get turned on walking down the street and seeing 'hot' girls (especially in mini skirts). I COULD be ok with this but he has this way about him which said 'come to me..flirt with me...go out with me'...he just loved to be loved. But with his constant need for attension and his over powering sex drive I became concirned and jelous. One time after class he made me wait in the hall while he put his insturments away. he says you better not go in as they are changing. But HE went in. He says they didnt mind. I asked if he saw any nakedness and he said actually YES. This was the first time I voiced my concirns. With his love for women and his hornyness...how could it be OK for him to go in and not me? Anyway is tarted to have all kinds of issues in the end. I didnt like him flirting. i didn't like him going out with other women...dinner movies ect....especially ALONE! he always said there was nothing to be scared of but i was. if maybe he said he wasnt atracted to them..but he is attracted to almost ALL women. He is also very sexy himself and he knew that. I didnt like him flirting or going out with a girl if SHE was attracted to him but just said thats what THEY feel and there is nothing to be scared of. Later on it got worse when all these ex's came out of the works. they were everywhere. One of the girls he has know for years and they have sex evry now and then (not when with me though). but I didnt like her...the way she flirted with him....he said they are close friends and somethimes hold hands while walking together. she always kisses him on the lips goodbye. My jelousy got worse over the year and i started to argue and pannick. he tols me that If i accuse him of being a cheater that might lead to him cheating. At that point what i didnt know yet..he already had (in my book). I didnt find out till ages later. He told me he would cut down on going out with other women alone. What he ACTUALLY did was just stop telling me about it as he didnt see he was doing anything wrong. One of the girls he went out with a couple of times. She told him she had a crush on him and he was flattered and still continued to hang out with her. one night at a clud he was flirting with her (i wasnt there)....she came onto him and he was loving it (as he alwyas did) she then took his flirting as an indication to give it a go. she started kissing him and he didnt stop her. i'm not sure how far it went but he SAYS thats all that happened. He decided NOT to tell me about it. 6 months later i found a card from her saying something about "boundaries...and feelings". I asked him about her and he lied and lied. later on he told me they kissed. The relationship never recovered after that. i could deal with the fact he had cheated and lied to me. He was having his cake and eating it for the SECOND time.

 

I'm now left wondering exactly WHAT people think about boundaries. is going out to dinner with another women ok? what if its an ex girlfriend? what about an ex lover? is going to the movies ok? To me it all sounds like a date! Does anyone else still call thier ex's by thier per name (baby, honey, sweetie)? does anyone ELSE still kiss them on the lips goodbye..hold thier hand? He tells me I was too black and white and that i should read up about male sexuality. Thats its ok to be attracted to other women as long as your not doing anything...but what the hell does that mean. what is not DOING anything...does he mean INTERCOURSE? god...I hope i can find a guy one day that deosnt argue over these matters and can agree that all that put together is just too much...plus he had cheated and lied.....I guess I dont blame myself for not trusting him. Guess im wondering if there was a way to fix our problems. We are still in love.

[laRubiaBonita]

the thing with bounderies is that each Individual has their own, it ties (or should) into morals, ethics, cultural differences, personal experiences.....

 

What you need to do is make it clear, in the beginning of the relationship, what your bounderies are and what your expectations of his are.

Then you see what his are and hgis expectations of you and you compromise.

 

This helps to weed out those people with totally different values as you, or at least you will know where your partner stands.

[Cecelius]

The tough part is the middle ground, and there are unofficial standards that I think are market.

 

I have two boundries stories.

 

A female friend of mine had cheated on her live-in b/f by banging a mutual law school friend of theirs a few years back. She completely regreted it and actually stopped the dude mid-way, felt skanky, etc., but never told the b/f. Out of fear of being alone, and youth, and the fact that the b/f had indicated he wasn't planning to get married anyway, she just rode it out. Apparently, she "smoothed it out" with the other guy by talking to him; they agreed not to disclose it and try to take things back to where they were.

 

Her next b/f had heard the cheating tale, and didn't care that much (old mistakes can be in the past) but he broke up with her when he found out that she was still pals with the other guy (pals in a very loose sense -- saw him annually at the same party where the cheating had occurred, maybe a stray email once in a while).

 

Basically, he was surprised that she didn't still feel embarrased for having given it up so fast to this other guy AND because he didn't like the conspiratorial air their conversation after the fact had. He actually said that he felt sorry for the ex because everytime that guy goes to a law school reunion type thing, this dude will always have a little secret on him. Her story was that this guy ESPECIALLY posed no danger b/c they'd had sex and it completely fizzled out the attraction.

 

In discussing her b/f's view (the one who dumped her), I said that sounded a little like "you don't have to worry about him 'cause I already banged him and it wasn't worth it...". Also, I pointed out that basically it showed that this guy's friendship seemed to be worth more than being true or honest to the b/f who got cheated on.

 

If she'd thought about it more, she probably wouldn't have bothered with maintaining the friendship.

 

Second, my own g/f went to a HS reunion (we weren't really enough of a couple to go together yet, and I had no interest in it), and apparently gave out her phone number to some old friends/acquaintences, etc. In our line of work, contacts are critical.

 

But she gave her cell number out, not her business card (probably because these were not huge business contacts and because in some sense they were more like pals than clients). However, one dude she gave her number to (and did not mention that she was dating someone) started to call her and ask her to do things.

 

Rather than say that she'd be happy to get together with him and her b/f (me) she basically just said the typical kinds of avoiding the invite without being rude type of stuff, and she didn't let him know I was in the picture. I did not actually know the guy was calling either.

 

After a couple of invites, she agreed -- she agreed to have dinner on a Friday night with him and drinks. She told me about it in advance, and my response was that we're not together then.

 

To me it was simple: gave number, didn't tell the guy you were dating someone, eventually accepted a date (Friday night dinner with a guy you haven't seen since 10 years IS A DATE). Even her mother told her it looked fishy.

 

And she did go. She told the guy she was seeing someone, but to me that showed she was WAY TOO YOUNG to take seriously at the time. A confident woman doesn't get badgered into a date and doesn't create wacky situations where she has to "clarify" with the guy that this is not a date.

 

My position was that this didn't make me uncomfortable, it just showed that she was probably not worth getting uncomfortable about.

 

We worked it out, but my point was that it would have been very difficult for her to have made it look more shady if she tried.

[laRubiaBonita]

Originally posted by Cecelius

but my point was that it would have been very difficult for her to have made it look more shady if she tried.

 

 

eeehhhhh??????

 

what is the point? what were the bounderies? i am not understanding this.

[Cecelius]

Bunny asked specifically about things like going out to dinner with opposite sex friends. My story generally was about one enormously small matter that appeared to be a larger one because certain boundries were crossed.

[laRubiaBonita]

Originally posted by Cecelius

Bunny asked specifically about things like going out to dinner with opposite sex friends. My story generally was about one enormously small matter that appeared to be a larger one because certain boundries were crossed.

 

 

understood.... but i was wondering what, specifically, those bounderies where and where they "confusion" lay.

[Bunnylove]

Thanx for the reply but i think I'm a lil 'confused' (AGAIN) about that storey. I'm guessing in my situation I am more black and white about things. Where I come from (scotland) it's very simple. If it's a one night stand thats one thing. If it gets past that point where your 'seeing' them (dating or whatever you call it) then basically its gona be hurtfull to the person your seeing if your shagging other folks as well. So we don't do it (well i speak for myself) its like the unwriiten rule. I think it's a waist of time seeing how it goes with one person when you still have your finger in other pies. I feel its selfish...to my ex (san francisco) he was dating one girl...sleeping casually with 2 others..then met me and told me he loved me....in the end MOST of us got hurt cause he was too selfish to take it one girl at a time. Because of this and the later cheating my jeliousy became out of hand and I could no longer deal with him going out with other women. I've come to the point where I'm almost against it. (unless your single). Dinner or movies with another women spell out DATE to me.

 

Anyway this is about views on boudaries! Is flirting ok? sayining "i love you" to ex's, still having pet names for them ok? Dinner or movies ok? flirting? kissing 9peck on the lips)? haning out with women who have been your friend but have also been your **** buddy over the years..is that ok? Most of these things I might be ok about as its not cheating BUT put them all together in a long distance relationship with lack of trust....it becomes unbearable. We STILL disagree on these issues! Need more views!

[Cecelius]

Oh, the boundry was that people in a mutually agreed upon exclusive relationship do not go out on dates with other people, and this looked as much like a date as you can get.

[Bunnylove]

Right! K...getting ya now! so now this is where it can be complicated...whats a date and what isnt. I think you can take ANY situation and make it innocent.....she is JUST a friend..it was only food....it was JUST a kiss..it was ONLY sex.....blah blah blah!

 

Basically I DONT think going out to dinner alone with another women is cool. I TRIED so dam hard to be ok with it but it was happening all the time with MANY different women and some were people he has been in a relationship with or has slept with. EITHER way it becomes confusing right? THATS why where I come from its not 'WRONG' but I guess frowned upon and any guy trying that here would KNOW he will be in trouble. My ex is from San Francisco and would make THAT the excuse that over there EVERYONE goes out to dinner one on one and I shouldnt be afraid of it....so I went along with it untill my ears bled. I really tried. In the end...I think black and white is good. YES state your boundaries and STICK TO THEM!!! but flirting, kissing, exchanging phone numbers, going out to movies and dinner...its not cheating but it causes confusion and concirn. All I have heard from him is that I have been ridiculous...even his parents dont agree with me. But then again I hear all this from HIM! MAYBE if your in a relationship that has no boundaries like an open relationship but thats certainly not for me! On his side he always said he wants to be in a relationship with someone who makes him feel free. Guess he is free as a bird now though!

[relention]

Im in a 4 year relationship and these are my views on the topic:

 

If a man and woman make a plan to have dinner together in a restaurant (the kind you would have with your lover) just to hang out then I would feel really uncomforable with it and I feel its not right. Although if it was a plan for say a business meeting or something you had to discuss seriously then it would be fine.

 

As for the boundaries.....kissing is wrong (except for the cheek or head) any form of kissing intended to be sexual and not friendly is basically wrong! Telling your ex gf that you love her is wrong, althoughs sometimes telling you friends you love them, no amtter of their sex, theres nothing wrong with that. Its weird yes but its not wrong, again as long as its not intended in the sexual kind of way.

 

Flirting is harmless as long as its not intended to lead onto something and that the person knows that....

 

It really depends on what the person at hand is thinking, there are certain things that are just wrong no matter what, eg: kissing, holding hands, sex (the more ovious ones)

 

What that guy you were seeing was doing was simply wrong and if had an care for you he would of listened to you (if you told him it bothered you) he seems self obsorbed.

 

Dont think that the thigns he did was right or people will just take advantage of you in the future, make sure you let them know if they do wrong and explain why it hurts.

[TylerC]

Here's what I define as cheating:

 

Anything you wouldn't in front of your partner.