Immovable Non-Believer VS Unstoppable Christian

[jsp32020]

I live in an area in the south where the dating pool is pretty much assumed to be Christian, and while dating, religion rarely comes up when you're just happy to be spending time with a great person. Me and my girlfriend are black Americans, and I only add that just to put things into perspective of a community that is deeply into church and what I'm dealing with for anyone that understands. Basically it's just a given that any nice black woman I meet is Christian and it's assumed I am too, not that I limit myself, but around here that's the circle you wind up around.

 

We get together, things are great and six months later she's pregnant. We eventually moved in together since I was over her place all the time and it made sense to pool our resources since I had been helping her out financially as she missed a lot of work from the pregnancy.

 

Fast forward to now, it's been about 2.5 yrs together and our son is 1 and a half. She's at the point where she feels like we should be married but at the same time it seems like both of us are still feeling things out and have our issues with each other (as I'm sure much of it is normal).

 

First of all, both of us come from religious families (mine Catholic mainly, hers Baptist). I really don't know what category I fall into these days, I fell out of the Catholic Church and believe in some kind of higher power but everything else is still open and I take high interest in contemplating the topic of spirituality, who we are, where we came from etc, it's something I'm passionate about... Shes wanting to get into church more, which she was more involved before she met me, she wants our son raised in the church and she would like me as the man to be the one to lead the family to church. She wants us to try different church so I can find one I like but the truth is I know that no church will suit me because I can't sit and listen to a bunch of fairy tales as far as I'm concerned. Her compromise was that I go at least one a month which I haven't but I know she wouldn't be happy with that anyways. She wants our son raised in the church and is teaching him how to bless his food before he even knows what and why he's doing it.

 

Now to be honest, I may not have been forthright in announcing my beliefs upfront. I read somewhere else that it's almost like coming out of the closet, it's just easier to get along by just going along with the flow. But now that things have gotten more complex than I've ever experienced, I'm not sure how to proceed. I want to raise a critical thinker that can see the world clear and not in the box of black Christianity (we love to box ourselves as such). She says we will raise him in the church until he's old enough to make his own decision (which to me makes no sense, his own decision is not to force anything on him). She does not want my beliefs to interfere with this.

 

Our conversations about religion end with her not wanting to talk about it and a look on her face like "what did I get into." I think it's almost a deal breaker for her but she tries to push the issue to the side. For me I'm almost to the point where it's a deal breaker if we can't find middle ground. But for me it's to the point where I don't even feel comfortable watching or reading anything that goes against her beliefs in front of her because I know she's cringing on the inside. I have a Christian best friend that I can have friendly discussions with about religion but I know that couldn't happen with me and her. At best it would be unspoken thing are long as I went along with the program.

 

So my question I suppose is basically are we both being stubborn? Are we too stubborn to make this work? Sometimes I feel clueless on when to compromise, when to shut up, and when to put my foot down. This machine known as religion is a powerful machine larger than me, I'm virtually up against her and her family plus my family should they ever know (my mom does but seems to block it out of her mind like she's in denial).

 

We have other relationship issues but nothing not fixable imo (disputes on why we don't spend quality time, me being more helpful with the baby, a few busts of me and my internet vices, I think she's too controlling and demanding. Shes a planner I'm a spur of the moment/last min person). This religion thing feels like the elephant in the room and drives home her feelings that we don't have much in common when you get down to it. Some of this may belong on another thread lol...

 

I don't know, this is part venting as I sit here at work barely able to be productive because it's on my mind so heavy. Either we'll be not together or engaged by year end and I'm not sure which way to go... Sorry if too wordy.

[autumnnight]

This is a tough situation. And it isn't all that uncommon. I'm always puzzled by Christian women (because it is usually women) who choose to date non-religious men and then are so surprised when the religious difference becomes an issue. What did they expect?

 

If I were going to try to find a middle ground, I would suggest allowing the child to accompany his mother to church while at the same time making sure he is exposed to lots of experiences, viewpoints, etc. I think trying to ban her from taking her child to church is a big no-no. On the other hand, I think her demanding that you go is a no-no. Her idea about you leading is, well, kinda ridiculous. This is not a diss, but how can she expect someone who doesn't share her faith to be a "spiritual leader" in her faith? I grew up Baptist so I know all about that spiritual leader thing. That's like asking someone who has never played basketball to coach my team.

 

If you end up together, this is likely to be a continual struggle unless you have some sort of religious experience or she just gradually gets tired of the conflict and abandons her own faith in all practical senses.

[Keenly]

Teach your child to think and they will figure it out for themselves.

 

I went to catholic school for six years as a chIld, now I'm an atheist. Ironic.

 

 

Let her take your kid to church. It will be a good experience for your child. But don't let her insist that you need to go to. She needs to respect your desire to remain non religious.

 

As for the kid, your time to pass on your beliefs will be later, after the child becomes self aware. Don't tell him\her mommy is wrong, tbut instead " this is what daddy believes "

[Arieswoman]

jsp32020,

Just as a matter of interest, has the child been Christened and if so in which church?

[jsp32020]

jsp32020,

Just as a matter of interest, has the child been Christened and if so in which church?

 

He has, it was the Baptist church she goes to.

[jsp32020]

Teach your child to think and they will figure it out for themselves.

 

I went to catholic school for six years as a chIld, now I'm an atheist. Ironic.

 

 

Let her take your kid to church. It will be a good experience for your child. But don't let her insist that you need to go to. She needs to respect your desire to remain non religious.

 

As for the kid, your time to pass on your beliefs will be later, after the child becomes self aware. Don't tell him\her mommy is wrong, tbut instead " this is what daddy believes "

 

Funny that all over the internet, it seems as if the Catholic church is responsible for more people losing their religion. I think my own Catholic schooling did more to change my views than anything. But yeah I hear ya...

[jsp32020]

This is a tough situation. And it isn't all that uncommon. I'm always puzzled by Christian women (because it is usually women) who choose to date non-religious men and then are so surprised when the religious difference becomes an issue. What did they expect?

 

If I were going to try to find a middle ground, I would suggest allowing the child to accompany his mother to church while at the same time making sure he is exposed to lots of experiences, viewpoints, etc. I think trying to ban her from taking her child to church is a big no-no. On the other hand, I think her demanding that you go is a no-no. Her idea about you leading is, well, kinda ridiculous. This is not a diss, but how can she expect someone who doesn't share her faith to be a "spiritual leader" in her faith? I grew up Baptist so I know all about that spiritual leader thing. That's like asking someone who has never played basketball to coach my team.

 

If you end up together, this is likely to be a continual struggle unless you have some sort of religious experience or she just gradually gets tired of the conflict and abandons her own faith in all practical senses.

 

Yes, so far the consensus is to allow him to go to church with her, and you are correct in that it seems like we're in for a bumpy ride. The problem is that I doubt she would be open to other experiences that go against what she believes. She doesn't want me sharing my views with him until he older basically.

[autumnnight]

Yes, so far the consensus is to allow him to go to church with her, and you are correct in that it seems like we're in for a bumpy ride. The problem is that I doubt she would be open to other experiences that go against what she believes. She doesn't want me sharing my views with him until he older basically.

 

Well, I agree with Keenly about framing it carefully, but she cannot take him to church each week and then try to prohibit you from sharing your views. That isn't fair.

[Arieswoman]

jsp32020,

I am pleased that the child has been Christened. However, I thought that Christening a child put some kind of responsibility on the parents to raise the child in that denomination?

 

Maybe it's different in USA?

[jsp32020]

Well, I agree with Keenly about framing it carefully, but she cannot take him to church each week and then try to prohibit you from sharing your views. That isn't fair.

 

Telling her daughter's (from her 1st marriage) coach that our son would be running pee wee track when he's 4... yet telling me that I'm forcing my dreams on him by mentioning I'd buy him a skateboard wasn't fair either lol but that how she is... I agree with you.

[jsp32020]

jsp32020,

I am pleased that the child has been Christened. However, I thought that Christening a child put some kind of responsibility on the parents to raise the child in that denomination?

 

Maybe it's different in USA?

 

Honestly I'm not sure either when it comes to that but I wasn't going to stop it. I didn't have a huge problem with that at the time, and I have no problem with the moral teachings and him learning how to live a moral life, but now that he's on the verge of learning and reasoning my real feelings are kicking in.

[central]

Telling her daughter's (from her 1st marriage) coach that our son would be running pee wee track when he's 4... yet telling me that I'm forcing my dreams on him by mentioning I'd buy him a skateboard wasn't fair either lol but that how she is... I agree with you.

 

I think you should be true to your convictions, and honest about them even if it causes disagreement. She won't respect you if you let her have her way in all things. If she calls you out on things like skateboarding - or teachings about religious beliefs - you need to call her out on similar things like running track. Some of this is philosophical perspective, and some of these things won't be pushed when the time comes, IMO. Just be calm and clear and decisive about your view, and respect hers. It will all work out eventually.

 

I'm an atheist, and my ex was when we met. However, after our son was born she got religion again, wanted to take our son to church, etc. That didn't bother me, but I did answer any questions he had from my perspective, or when he said something about God, I'd explain my views, and tell him that someday he will decide what he believes and what he wants to do about it. He did, and decided to forego religion and live his life without it. However, it didn't hurt him to be exposed to what so many people believe, and while religion isn't necessary for the development of morality (and in some cases religious views are very unethical when they discriminate against minorities), it didn't hurt him to be exposed to common ideas of morality which the vast majority of people agree upon.

[xxoo]

I think you're both being stubborn.

 

Let her share her beliefs and Baptist family culture with your child. Let her make religion a part of the fabric of your child's life.

 

You, in turn, have longs walks and conversations over an entire childhood that over time share your view point. Have patience and trust that you don't have to counteract the religious teaching, but naturally will make your view point a part of the fabric of your child's life.

 

Your child will be enriched by both experiences, and possibly damaged by both. We all damage our kids somehow despite our purest intentions, lol.

 

FWIW, I was raised with a mother like your wife, and a father who stayed home from church and slowly shared his perspective through a childhood of conversations. All three of us kids ended up being non-religious.

[Haydn]

Exposure to everything is always good. Your child will make up their mind when they want. Whatever choice they make is theirs.

 

(Apart from the really bad ones, then step in)

[jsp32020]

I hear what you all are saying and everyone is making sense. I think in my disdain for organized religion I've became just as zealous about my non-belief as she is about hers. We've both been stubborn and I need to relax about my fears of junior becoming a Jesus freak, but she needs to know I'm not going to make him out to be an immoral heathen. I don't want to portray her in a bad light either, she's a great mother and girlfriend (when things are good) but she is headstrong on certain things. I'm the type to avoid conflict but we need to go ahead and air this out.

 

At the same time I think I've been getting the short end of the stick with this religion thing thus far and I guess that's where my frustration lies.

 

Now I'm sure in all fairness she could start a thread on me and everyone would agree with her on her issues lol...

Edited June 16, 2015 by jsp32020

[jsp32020]

I've never pitched the idea but I would be totally happy if the four of us just spent a few hours on Sunday reading passages out of the Bible (and other books) and discovering what we can all learn from. Although much of it open to interpretation (and question) I do feel it has value.

 

(I just thought of that reading another thread)

[amaysngrace]

I think you're being unreasonable because she has something to lose that actually matters to her while you have nothing that means as much.

[amaysngrace]

Oh..and don't most parents just want their children to be happy?

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-mortal/201212/are-religious-people-happier-non-religious-people

[jsp32020]

I think you're being unreasonable because she has something to lose that actually matters to her while you have nothing that means as much.

 

If I understand you correctly.... I do have something to loose, me being a non-believer doesn't mean my opinions and beliefs don't exist, it just means my core set of beliefs do not fit any mainstream religion and I feel just as strongly that our son should be exposed to everything just as much as she does Jesus.

[jsp32020]

Oh..and don't most parents just want their children to be happy?

 

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-mortal/201212/are-religious-people-happier-non-religious-people

 

That's not a fair argument. Santa Claus can make kids happy. The tooth fairy can too. I'm generally care free and happy person, I just found that I don't need the cushion of pretending to know things to achieve it. I find joy in my pursuit of the unknown, and all of the possibilities it offers, if that makes sense.

Edited June 16, 2015 by jsp32020

[xxoo]

If I understand you correctly.... I do have something to loose, me being a non-believer doesn't mean my opinions and beliefs don't exist, it just means my core set of beliefs do not fit any mainstream religion and I feel just as strongly that our son should be exposed to everything just as much as she does Jesus.

 

Exactly.

 

I'm not concerned about my children being exposed to religion, and in fact I've exposed them to a variety of religions. They get the Christian teaching from some family members, and my oldest often goes to church with friends simply because she's invited.

 

I do care about sharing my perspective on religion with my kids, very much so. As they grow, I'm delighted to hear their own thoughts on the subject (even if they don't agree with mine). As long as they're thinking, I'm happy.

[autumnnight]

jsp32020,

I am pleased that the child has been Christened. However, I thought that Christening a child put some kind of responsibility on the parents to raise the child in that denomination?

 

Maybe it's different in USA?

 

You cannot raise your child in Christian leadership if you are not a Christian. And though there may be a theoretical responsibility, it is not legally binding or something. No religion police are going to come get him for not going to church.

[Ronni_W]

jsp32020,

I appreciate your dilemma. If you're open to them, there are some interesting ideas about parenting, from a spiritual perspective, here:

 

Introducing spiritual concepts and the spiritual path to children

 

Explaining the concept of God to a young child

 

The value of teaching children spirituality

 

Children and church attendance

 

Foundational teachings on raising children

 

The article on when partners have differing spiritual beliefs may also be useful.

 

Wishing you and your family the highest and happiest outcomes.

[jsp32020]

jsp32020,

I appreciate your dilemma. If you're open to them, there are some interesting ideas about parenting, from a spiritual perspective, here:

 

Introducing spiritual concepts and the spiritual path to children

 

Explaining the concept of God to a young child

 

The value of teaching children spirituality

 

Children and church attendance

 

Foundational teachings on raising children

 

The article on when partners have differing spiritual beliefs may also be useful.

 

Wishing you and your family the highest and happiest outcomes.

 

Thanks, I can see some value in those links.

[Weezy1973]

OP, does your girlfriend believe that if people aren't Christian they'll go to hell? If that's the case, it's going to be quite difficult to convince her to raise your child to be open minded on the topic.