Where is the integrity?

[DexterLS]

Hi candie13,

 

Thank you for your amazing response.

 

Everything makes sense. I am really hurt for whatever happened to me and never thought I would be in this situation. I try hard not to hurt people intentionally and I never thought something this bad would happen to me.

 

But, it did and I am going through it. I accepted that she is gone. It still bothers me every single day about how she could just leave but I know, in my heart, that I would never be able to take her back. The trust is gone.

 

For all the pain, she put me through as well as the other guy, I just hope she realises it one day. Listen, I understand people sometimes fall out of love. I have seen it happen with a lot of people and well, I can't blame my ex for having feelings for someone else.

 

I am just disappointed that she was not straightforward with me when it happened. I am also disappointed that the other guy pursued his interest despite knowing she is in a committed relationship. Sure, he is not the only one to be blamed but I am just hurt that they are together when I should have been the one with her right now.

 

Anyway, 23 days since we last communicated and started strict NC today, which means no stalking as well. Let's see how this goes now!

[Gloria25]

Hi candie13,

 

Thank you for your amazing response.

 

Everything makes sense. I am really hurt for whatever happened to me and never thought I would be in this situation. I try hard not to hurt people intentionally and I never thought something this bad would happen to me.

 

But, it did and I am going through it. I accepted that she is gone. It still bothers me every single day about how she could just leave but I know, in my heart, that I would never be able to take her back. The trust is gone.

 

For all the pain, she put me through as well as the other guy, I just hope she realises it one day. Listen, I understand people sometimes fall out of love. I have seen it happen with a lot of people and well, I can't blame my ex for having feelings for someone else.

 

I am just disappointed that she was not straightforward with me when it happened. I am also disappointed that the other guy pursued his interest despite knowing she is in a committed relationship. Sure, he is not the only one to be blamed but I am just hurt that they are together when I should have been the one with her right now.

 

Anyway, 23 days since we last communicated and started strict NC today, which means no stalking as well. Let's see how this goes now!

 

Like my fav podcaster said "You can't cure normal"....

 

It's normal to feel upset, angry, ask "whys" and all that. And glad you can come here to LS to vent and get perspective...

 

Give it time, stay busy and one day she will just be a distant memory.

 

In the mean time, some say the greatest revenge is living a better life. So, if I were you, I'd call up "stalker chick"...guaranteed that she'll never cheat and/or leave your side. Shoot, she may even stay awake all night and watch you sleep with a creepy stare

 

Ok, just joking about the 'look up stalker chick' part, the rest of my post is ok...

[DexterLS]

Like my fav podcaster said "You can't cure normal"....

 

It's normal to feel upset, angry, ask "whys" and all that. And glad you can come here to LS to vent and get perspective...

 

Give it time, stay busy and one day she will just be a distant memory.

 

In the mean time, some say the greatest revenge is living a better life. So, if I were you, I'd call up "stalker chick"...guaranteed that she'll never cheat and/or leave your side. Shoot, she may even stay awake all night and watch you sleep with a creepy stare

 

Ok, just joking about the 'look up stalker chick' part, the rest of my post is ok...

 

Haha. What podcasts do you recommend listening to by the way?

 

Thank you

[Gloria25]

Haha. What podcasts do you recommend listening to by the way?

 

Thank you

 

I recommend you listen to podcasts that entertain you and help you grow as a person. Not some ditzy show where girls call in and their vocabulary pretty much consists of "uh, like".

 

Many people have podcasts now a days w/o an actual radio show. You can look up a fav celebrity and they just might have a podcast show.

 

I like my fav podcaster cuz I respect her wisdom, knowledge and opinions. Her calls can be quite entertaining at times. As a person, I also admire her grit, determination and biceps/"guns" that are bigger than mine and she's late 60's. I don't know what I would have done without her. She is like my 2nd mother. But, she's very intimidating and commanding too....lol

[The Poster]

You are right.

 

However, my best-friend actively cheated on her LTR girlfriend of 4 years for a whole year before she found out. My friend is living a pretty great life right now: new decent job, new girlfriend and he is even going to Paris in 12 days.

 

I mean, we are not so close right now, so I wouldn't know how he actually is doing but when he was cheating and got caught, I asked him afterwards about how he felt. He showed no remorse and just carried on with his life.

 

He was studying in Canada though. So I don't know if the distance made him cold and easier for him to just get on with his life but he did anyway and is happy. I met him 2 weeks ago and he was all smiles every time.

 

That's the key phrase.

 

Karma isn't always instant, and usually the longer it takes, the harder the fall.

[joseb]

Although on the other hand... my girlfriend was in a 4 year relationship that ended about a year ago. She cheated on him numerous times and had a few several month long affairs. Now that worries me. In her defense, he had some weird sexual issues and refused to sleep with her more than a few times a year, so she slept with others behind his back. That worries me. Why didn't she just break up with him? She say's they really loved each other, but the sex life was non-existent... Either way. I do worry because as they say" once a cheater..."

 

History of repeated cheating for long periods, weird sexual issues, moving in within a month - few flags there don't you think?

Hope you are going into this with your eyes open.

[Popsicle]

When you have been part of the experience of infidelity first hand, you tend to develop very strong views on it that other (normal) people just don't think too much about.

[salparadise]

Someone (carhill perhaps) posted in a thread a month ago, and as minimariah reiterated on p.1 of this thread, how he came to accept that attractive women are never truly single and unattached... they either do the monkey-branching thing because, well, in a nutshell, she always has options...

 

So, if she's desirable (optimal hip to waist ratio, fibonacci facial features, etc.) and you want a shot at this object of your affections, then you have to be able to read the subtle signals to understand when she's receptive and it's time to make the move, regardless of official relationship status. When she's ready to swing, there will be a branch within reach... and how well you play that ultimately determines your reproductive fate.

 

I think it's sweet how most everyone here has all of these high ideals about never making a move on someone else's gal... yea, sweet is a good word for it.

[joseb]

 

I think it's sweet how most everyone here has all of these high ideals about never making a move on someone else's gal... yea, sweet is a good word for it.

 

Well I guess there are two choices. We can either respect the boundaries of peoples relationships, or we can ignore them.

If we all ignore them, then we should just forget about the ideas of relationships full stop, and just live life day to day. No need for awkward talks about where we are in relationships, marriage or any of that - just go for whoever takes your fancy and screw the consequences. At least that way people wouldn't find themselves blindsided having made plans around an imagined future with someone.

[DexterLS]

Someone (carhill perhaps) posted in a thread a month ago, and as minimariah reiterated on p.1 of this thread, how he came to accept that attractive women are never truly single and unattached... they either do the monkey-branching thing because, well, in a nutshell, she always has options...

 

So, if she's desirable (optimal hip to waist ratio, fibonacci facial features, etc.) and you want a shot at this object of your affections, then you have to be able to read the subtle signals to understand when she's receptive and it's time to make the move, regardless of official relationship status. When she's ready to swing, there will be a branch within reach... and how well you play that ultimately determines your reproductive fate.

 

I think it's sweet how most everyone here has all of these high ideals about never making a move on someone else's gal... yea, sweet is a good word for it.

 

I get it, it takes two person to be in a relationship. Sure, you might be attracted to a particular person, but I would never continue my interest in someone if I found out she is in a committed relationship with someone else.

 

There's no harm in making your feelings known to that person but once you start to ignore boundaries, like Joseb said, that's where you become a person without integrity, imho.

[salparadise]

I don't think it's nearly as black and white as joseb paints it, or perhaps wishes is to be. For starters, monogamy is a social construct that flourished and was considered the norm around the same time we quit roaming for food and started raising crops and domesticating animals. It has never been universal or absolute. It's only recently (a few thousand years) that many have started pushing it is a moral imperative. And even then, it's serial monogamy that is seen as correct and not true monogamy. And of course social monogamy is prevalent, where people pair up for the long-haul but aren't completely sexually exclusive.

 

People are constantly sending signals to people they're attracted to, in a relationship or not. If they get a go-ahead signal in response then they've been given permission, an invitation. If an attractive woman is ready to trade up it's not a matter of if... it's a matter of who. And timing is often the key.

 

Ah, I'm tired of typing stuff that is really only common sense, and I'm tired of threads where people try to convince the world that their own version of morality-integrity-righ-wrong is the only right way to be. It's all subjective.

 

Morality itself is a mental construct in humans, and it varies from place to place, time to time and people to people. Nature doesn't subscribe to it - nature just allows that which is most successful to prevail.

 

All of this stuff is far more interesting if you remove the morality judgments from the equation.

[cocorico]

 

 

I guess ultimately what I am asking is, can you trust a partner who left someone else for you? Any personal experiences where this kind of relationship worked?

 

My H left his xW for me.

 

Yes, I trust him - far more than I've ever been able to trust anyone. Because he shows me every day, all the time, that I can trust him.

 

Might he in the future meet, and fall for, someone else? Yes, he might. As might I. No one can predict that sort of thing - but as long as we're truly happy, and communicating well, it's less likely to come as a surprise.

[Toodaloo]

I think you misunderstood. I don't know if he was happy when he was cheating on his LTR girlfriend, but, he is happy now. So, I don't really think that Karma is something that exists. Bad things don't always happen to bad people.

 

I know, I will forget about all this in a year or so but right now there's so much anger inside of me, I can't let it go. There's no way I would put another person in so much pain intentionally and they did it to me anyway.

 

But if your best friend is a "bad" person then why is he your best friend? He doesn't sound all that "bad" to me based on one bit of cheating... on a girlfriend who wasn't actually there... he just sounds as though he was lonely...

 

The way to let your anger go is to focus on other more positive things... get yourself involved in new things and try all that stuff you always wanted to do but didn't because you were with her... Cultivate fun into your life and pretty soon you will realize that you don't even think about her any more...

 

Karma does exist. Just not in the way you think it does

[Woggle]

The way I see it is that if they did it to somebody else they will do it to me. I am not so special that I can make somebody all of a sudden become an honest and loyal partner.

[RedRobin]

Someone (carhill perhaps) posted in a thread a month ago, and as minimariah reiterated on p.1 of this thread, how he came to accept that attractive women are never truly single and unattached... they either do the monkey-branching thing because, well, in a nutshell, she always has options...

 

So, if she's desirable (optimal hip to waist ratio, fibonacci facial features, etc.) and you want a shot at this object of your affections, then you have to be able to read the subtle signals to understand when she's receptive and it's time to make the move, regardless of official relationship status. When she's ready to swing, there will be a branch within reach... and how well you play that ultimately determines your reproductive fate.

 

I think it's sweet how most everyone here has all of these high ideals about never making a move on someone else's gal... yea, sweet is a good word for it.

 

That's nice.

 

I've had plenty of men hit on me while I was in a committed relationship (and they knew it). Men I might have considered some day if my primary relationship broke up. But once they do that, they get ruled out.

 

Funny too, when they come around after I'm bonafide single and try their luck again. I consider those men bottom feeders. If they want to hang out with other bottom feeding women, then great. Let's not make them out to be anyone special, because, hey... Any Cretan can be born with good looks. Nothing special there.

 

Actually takes effort and courage to have values. Those are the men I want. Because people who don't have any rules of conduct and can't negotiate fairly can't be trusted. Period. I wouldn't do business with them, wouldn't give them a loan, and sure wouldn't have sex with them unless I was wrapped in latex from head to toe.

 

People like to think the rules are somehow different when it comes to 'love' but they really aren't. Some people have discretion, others just kind of float from person to person and thing to thing without much thought. *shrug*

 

Hey, OP, how about this for a thought... Consider your ex GF to just be lazy. Maybe not morally bankrupt. Just lazy. Find someone who is more deliberate in their actions and choices in life... And doesn't have a habit of taking the easy way out when it is convenient for them.

Edited June 21, 2015 by RedRobin

[StanMusial]

Well I guess there are two choices. We can either respect the boundaries of peoples relationships, or we can ignore them.

If we all ignore them, then we should just forget about the ideas of relationships full stop, and just live life day to day. No need for awkward talks about where we are in relationships, marriage or any of that - just go for whoever takes your fancy and screw the consequences. At least that way people wouldn't find themselves blindsided having made plans around an imagined future with someone.

. That would literally be a cluster****. Anarchy!!!

[salparadise]

That's nice.

 

I've had plenty of men hit on me while I was in a committed relationship (and they knew it). Men I might have considered some day if my primary relationship broke up. But once they do that, they get ruled out.

 

Funny too, when they come around after I'm bonafide single and try their luck again. I consider those men bottom feeders. If they want to hang out with other bottom feeding women, then great. Let's not make them out to be anyone special, because, hey... Any Cretan can be born with good looks. Nothing special there.

 

Actually takes effort and courage to have values. Those are the men I want. Because people who don't have any rules of conduct and can't negotiate fairly can't be trusted. Period. I wouldn't do business with them, wouldn't give them a loan, and sure wouldn't have sex with them unless I was wrapped in latex from head to toe.

 

People like to think the rules are somehow different when it comes to 'love' but they really aren't. Some people have discretion, others just kind of float from person to person and thing to thing without much thought. *shrug*

 

Hey, OP, how about this for a thought... Consider your ex GF to just be lazy. Maybe not morally bankrupt. Just lazy. Find someone who is more deliberate in their actions and choices in life... And doesn't have a habit of taking the easy way out when it is convenient for them.

 

 

RR, you must believe that morality is universal and gender neutral, or should be? Do you literally expect men to adopt women's values?

 

One thing men have to accept... if you have an attractive woman (girlfriend, fiancee, wife, whatever) men are going to be hitting on her. That is a fact of life, and you gotta either get over it or get a woman that no other man wants. If you catch them doing it right in from of you, you can punch'em in the nose. There are rules that are somewhat universal- you don't hit on your brother's woman, or your best friend's, and no first-degree relatives. If you do you'll forever be judged harshly. There might be a few gray areas, but here's the reality...

 

Virtue is a highly attractive female characteristic because it is the basis of maintaining some modicum of order and stability in the world. The only thing standing between a man's peaceful, congruent existence and a yard full of kids that don't look like daddy, is female virtue. That, is a fact.

 

Any man who rests easy believing that his woman is secure because of another man's integrity is a fool... and if he erroneously believes his woman to be virtuous, well, that probably explains a lot of red, curly hair and other stuff too.

 

Too bad we can't do polls on LS. If we could then changing the rules would be as simple as taking a vote. Wouldn't that be sweet?

Edited June 22, 2015 by salparadise

[RedRobin]

RR, you must believe that morality is universal and gender neutral, or should be? Do you literally expect men to adopt women's values?

 

One thing men have to accept... if you have an attractive woman (girlfriend, fiancee, wife, whatever) men are going to be hitting on her. That is a fact of life, and you gotta either get over it or get a woman that no other man wants. If you catch them doing it right in from of you, you can punch'em in the nose. There are rules that are somewhat universal- you don't hit on your brother's woman, or your best friend's, and no first-degree relatives. If you do you'll forever be judged harshly. There might be a few gray areas, but here's the reality...

 

Virtue is a highly attractive female characteristic because it is the basis of maintaining some modicum of order and stability in the world. The only thing standing between a man's peaceful, congruent existence and a yard full of kids that don't look like daddy, is female virtue. That, is a fact.

 

Any man who rests easy believing that his woman is secure because of another man's integrity is a fool... and if he erroneously believes his woman to be virtuous, well, that probably explains a lot of red, curly hair and other stuff too.

 

Too bad we can't do polls on LS. If we could then changing the rules would be as simple as taking a vote. Wouldn't that be sweet?

 

 

meh, this has nothing to do with gender rules... I'd never f*ck the kind of man you describe. My time and life are valuable... and I'd argue they are for plenty of women who don't actually have to rely on a man for her survival.

 

 

Sure, for those less fortunate, I imagine that monkey branching (like job hopping) is their only way of moving up in the world. Same goes for the men who do that. The insecure ones who need to 'trade up' in order to validate his manhood.

 

 

My observation of some very successful women AND men, is they don't do a lot of monkey branching and they aren't out scoping for a BBD. They aren't driven by chaos and drama.

 

 

You and I apparently live in completely different worlds...

 

 

I'll agree with you on one thing... If your partner is physically attractive, then there will be bottom feeders out there looking for an opportunity. Kinda like there are always spammers online, and random crooks on the street checking the car door handles to see if they are locked or not. Just opportunists and bottom feeders all of them... Actually, the person doesn't even need to be all that attractive. Someone is bound to find them attractive eventually. I'd say look for someone who isn't moved by that kind of random attention. No matter what your gender is.

[MoreAmore]

Pursuing a person you know is in a monogamous is relationship is disgusting.

 

Stepping out on a relationship or entertaining offers while in one is a despicable action. Though if you meet someone you like you should end the relationship before any pursuing.

[sandylee1]

I guess the world would be a perfect place if everyone had integrity, but that's not reality. Some guys feel even more manly that they can get a girl away from her BF. It's more of a challenge.

 

Also many consider before marriage , it's fair game. I've been hit on before while in relationships and when I would say I have a BF, guys would say , ' but your not married' or 'so is he good to you'' and ' I can be better' I remember one trying to get me to break up with my bf ( now husband), telling me we'd be great together etc... He felt as far as I hadn't made a commitment to marry my bf, I was fair game. I didn't hold it against him.

 

 

When people are dating I don't understand why they can't simply end the relationship and move on instead of cheating.