Do modern women reject men too often?

[minime13]

Are you actually a teenager? Because now I wouldn't be so surprised at all.

 

Would you like to explain that?

 

I think I made my point, and I think you're going to keep complaining and ignoring the good advice you're getting from women, and keep wondering why it's so hard to date.

 

That doesn't make me the childish one.

[Zing]

Would you like to explain that?

 

I think I made my point, and I think you're going to keep complaining and ignoring the good advice you're getting from women, and keep wondering why it's so hard to date.

 

That doesn't make me the childish one.

 

Sure, rather than address the arguments I put forth you chose to glibly try and paint me as a loser while simultaneously telling me how "great" your life is(don't know why you thought i'd care?). So yes, an extremely childish move.

 

You made a lot of wild, in-cohesive and random points, sure, and I never asked for any advice actually. We were having a decent discussion and frankly you ruined it with your strawmans and bossy pretentious attitude.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Zing

[autumnnight]

Getting angry and resentful at the gender you're attempting to build relationships is completely insane.

 

I am going to buy banner ad space and post this across the top of LS

[ZA Dater]

That is such a poor, poor, pitiful me line. Ugh. And really - that is NOT attractive at all.

 

Women find all those qualities attractive, but those are not generally qualities that someone sees firsthand. Physical attraction is what gets it started.

 

Aside from your looks, your attitude plays an important role in physical attraction. How you carry yourself, how you dress, what your demeanor is. In essence - your confidence. Guys on this thread seem so hesitant to take this advice that women are giving because they have heard it so much. The problem is that they don't practice it. If you don't practice it, then how do you know it is bs?

 

First thing - make yourself look polished with a fresh, and clean-shaven appearance. Don't use body spray or excessive cologne, and dress like you understand the basics of the color wheel that we all learned in kindergarten. You don't have to be the best-dressed guy in the crowd, but you do have to look like you've got it together, and you didn't just pick out the clothes that passed the smell test. So, in essence, keep your clothes organized and nicely pressed at home, so you can give and live the appearance of being put together and organized. Take some pride in the way you dress, because that's sexy.

 

Second thing - demeanor means so much. When you're out in a social setting, make it your goal to know more details about the wall than the floor. This is highly important in the smart phone era. Your head and neck control your entire stature, and if you' slumped over and looking down half the time, you're not approachable. Hold your head high, expand your shoulders, and work on your posture. Make eye contact throughout the room with everyone, because that shows you are confident and self-assured. Confidence is very attractive. Honestly - why are the guys with the biggest egos getting the attention? Because they own themselves.

 

Third - the numbers game. A few guys have mentioned this, and it does work, in theory. There is a fine line between playing the numbers game and appearing desperate, though. Desperation is never attractive. Never. The way to do this successfully is not make it obvious. Don't do the thing where you bounce around from woman to woman when you're out. Mingle - when you're looking around the room, making eye contact with those around you, set your sights on some women that you want to approach. This way, you don't come off as being a player or desperate.

 

Have the person or people that you want to meet picked out before you approach, and watch their demeanor as well. If you see that inviting demeanor (that I described above), then go in and introduce yourself. If you see the uninviting demeanor (shoulders and body pulled inward, avoiding eye contact, arms crossed or other guarded positions), then do not approach. People make themselves available or unavailable with their body language. I don't know that a lot of men realize this - some women just don't want to be approached sometimes, and it is told in their body language.

 

The biggest reason why other men give the attitude of dating as being a numbers game is to not take rejection so personally. If one woman isn't interested, that's fine. Move along, because there are plenty of other available women out there. If you keep that attitude in mind (but don't show it), then you'll be able to keep your confidence.

 

Thanks for the kind advice.

 

 

On the above I don't really go out, bars and clubs are not my thing and I could never approach someone "cold" like you suggest, its not me because mostly in those settings you have no idea who is actually single and when I did go there I was hardly surprised to find 90% of people were not single and what was single I simply didn't find attractive. As far as dress goes I was once told I looked "dapper" which was a nice compliment the only time I have EVER been complimented by a female.

 

 

I have never been approached even when I did try clubs and bars but the issue always has been I don't relate to people, there is probably a pool of very few people I relate to, I guess that's my fault too. Sure I can sit and try dumb myself down as I have when I met some people from OLD. All my dating experience has come from OLD. Barring one person I happened to meet a lunch, she was the nicest of all but I was clearly so terrible she wouldn't even be friends with me.

 

 

Being rejected as a possible mate is one thing, being rejected as a friend is quite another.

 

 

Thinking about it, perhaps the only wisdom I can impart here is to those who are still trying keep trying and I sincerely hope you find a positive experience, I never did and that's pretty much why I have removed myself from the dating pool. I cannot over emphasize how important even one very positive experience is, like it to a sip of cold water on a hot day. It will give you the energy to move forward.

 

 

To the ladies, sure you all like what you do like but perhaps when you reject be nice about it and give some good humoured perhaps light hearted critique, I know how much it would have meant to me to realise why I am so unattractive.

[regine_phalange]

No. I never regretted it.

My mum also rejected men before marrying my dad. My grandma did the same as well. It must be normal.

[autumnnight]

OK, I admit that I am old and did most of my dating in the 80's and 90's.

 

Way back then, before cell phones were smaller than a bread box, we didn't consider a first date to be actually "dating." If I had a great first date and teh guy never called again, I didn't pick it apart because...you see...we weren't ACTUALLY dating. We had had one date.

 

If a guy called me several times and then stopped, I never called him back and demanded an explanation because...you see...it wasn't ACTUALLY a relationship. It was some phone calls.

 

Do people really think that they deserve some sort of concrete dissertation of "why I didn't call back" after one or two dates now?

 

Are people really considered to be "fence sitting" if they decide after a week or two to stop texting?

 

I mean really....none of the above would have even qualified as rejection back in the dark ages.

[minime13]

Sure, rather than address the arguments I put forth you chose to glibly try and paint me as a loser while simultaneously telling me how great your life is(don't know why you thought i'd care?). So yes, an extremely childish move.

 

You made a lot of wild, in-cohesive and random points, sure, and I never asked for any advice actually. We were having a decent discussion and frankly you ruined it with your strawmans and bossy pretentious attitude.

 

I think you did:

 

I've only read the first page and don't care to go through them all, but I'm just a little curious as to why women's replies are so vicious and defensive? I mean logically if this many people are complaining about the same thing simultaneously then maybe it's not in their heads. Or maybe we're all just bitter neckbeards who just come to cry on here when we get rejected. (lol)

 

I'm immensely annoyed by claims that "both men and women have tons of options". To me this instantly shows that you don't live in the real world, or cannot see outside of your own existence. Sexual selection is real, it's scientific, men and women are different in many ways, both excel at different things because we evolved this way.

 

Feminism is toxic and hypocritical and until it changes drastically this will be the status quo.

 

And your responses to my posts specifically directed toward you are met with sarcasm and the continued sentiment of "you don't understand." I've addressed plenty, while you keep repeating - in essence ignoring the answers to the questions you posed (and not just by me). You don't like the point I made when I realized this was useless. Just like your refusal to explain your issue with feminism (which you did not give specifics), I guess the fact that you didn't like the point I made is your problem.

 

Good luck.

[GoodOnPaper]

OK, I admit that I am old and did most of my dating in the 80's and 90's.

 

Way back then, before cell phones were smaller than a bread box, we didn't consider a first date to be actually "dating." If I had a great first date and teh guy never called again, I didn't pick it apart because...you see...we weren't ACTUALLY dating. We had had one date.

 

If a guy called me several times and then stopped, I never called him back and demanded an explanation because...you see...it wasn't ACTUALLY a relationship. It was some phone calls.

 

Do people really think that they deserve some sort of concrete dissertation of "why I didn't call back" after one or two dates now?

 

Are people really considered to be "fence sitting" if they decide after a week or two to stop texting?

 

I mean really....none of the above would have even qualified as rejection back in the dark ages.

 

My dating era was the same but I think first dates counted. I had exactly 9 and I remember all of their names and faces. However, I would always handle an nth-date rejection better than the usual zero-date rejection. After giving me a chance, rejection can be about us not being good together, or at least I can tell myself that. With an earlier rejection, it's all about me being too ugly or too nerdy or otherwise not good enough -- that's much harder to take.

[hudson701]

Western society has grown more sophisticated, along with women's tastes and expectations.

 

A lot of disgruntled men seem to behave like they deserve a gold star for putting their shirt on the right way and showing up.

 

Women expect more from men these days and a lot of them simply fail to past muster.

 

They don't want to change, or improve or grow. A lot of them behave like women *owe* them relationships.

 

In nature, it's common practice for the males of a species to compete for mates. It's not all that different in human terms.

 

Ok that's a fair point but if women have such high expectations what exactly do they bring to the table other than their pussy and looks? Because the vast majority of white collar, western 20 something, pretty professional females I meet in London have such a titantic sense of entitlement, they really do believe all they need to do is turn up. Provide the sex. And that's it. Then a man must perform like some circus monkey and meet strict criteria just to get it. It's disgusting, and it's why more and more men are becoming selfish players (like me) because of this absurdity we witness in modern women. If women continue to put such constraints on sex and intimacy, then, well, expect men to run their own game and have as many girls on the go as possible to satisfy their own sexual needs. It's what I do now, because I'm FORCED to do it, not because I want to. I wish things were easier with women, but quite frankly they are not. Women hold the strings, they have the power in the dating world despite feminists telling you otherwise. So us men have gotta get savvy in getting around these obstacles.

 

Whatsapp feeds, Facebook feeds, Instagram and duckface selfies... It's destroying modern women and turning them into vapid, egotistical narcissists.

[Zing]

I think you did:

 

 

 

And your responses to my posts specifically directed toward you are met with sarcasm and the continued sentiment of "you don't understand." I've addressed plenty, while you keep repeating - in essence ignoring the answers to the questions you posed (and not just by me). You don't like the point I made when I realized this was useless. Just like your refusal to explain your issue with feminism (which you did not give specifics), I guess the fact that you didn't like the point I made is your problem.

 

Good luck.

 

"No, you're wrong!"

 

You addressed with strawmans, so essentially your points were worthless. You bring up almost entirely unrelated arguments and then act like you've refuted me, it's absurd, so yes I was sarcastic.

 

Just like I never asked for any advice, I also never asked any questions(rhetorical q's not withstanding).

 

I explained my issue with feminism pretty succinctly in a pretty short frame, and no I'm not going to elaborate more than that because what I've said covered it pretty well.

[autumnnight]

My dating era was the same but I think first dates counted. I had exactly 9 and I remember all of their names and faces. However, I would always handle an nth-date rejection better than the usual zero-date rejection. After giving me a chance, rejection can be about us not being good together, or at least I can tell myself that. With an earlier rejection, it's all about me being too ugly or too nerdy or otherwise not good enough -- that's much harder to take.

 

I had quite a few first dates myself, and most of them did not materialize into second dates. I remember that is it was someone I had had a crush on for awhile, I was disappointed and often wondered why sadly to a girlfriend. If it was just a random date I kind of just went "hm," and went on with life. And yes, there were times I was relieved he didn't call again.

 

One thing I can honestly say I never did was decide all the guys were just mean, overly picky, players, manipulators, spoiled, unfair, blahblahblah....I didn't assume no guys wanted "nice girls" and decide to become jaded.

 

I listened to REO Speedwagon or Chicago, watched Pretty Woman or Steel Magnolias, and got over myself.

[MGX]

That is such a poor, poor, pitiful me line. Ugh. And really - that is NOT attractive at all.

 

CONSTANTLY failing is not attractive at all. I'm not sure if ZA has ever been successful to weigh against those many loses which caused him to quit.

 

The biggest reason why other men give the attitude of dating as being a numbers game is to not take rejection so personally. If one woman isn't interested, that's fine. Move along, because there are plenty of other available women out there. If you keep that attitude in mind (but don't show it), then you'll be able to keep your confidence.

 

If men had a higher chance of regular successes, they wouldn't take rejection so personally. They would have success stories to balance out against the failures and trying again wouldn't be this huge issue.

[Keenly]

The horse is starting to decompose.

[Shining One]

One thing I can honestly say I never did was decide all the guys were just mean, overly picky, players, manipulators, spoiled, unfair, blahblahblah....I didn't assume no guys wanted "nice girls" and decide to become jaded.

This is something that builds over time.

 

Approach 20 people, all reject you - Ouch

Approach 50 people, all reject you - Bigger Ouch

Approach 100+ people, all reject you - All People of the Opposite Gender Suck!

 

Are there any women on here who have experienced this scale of rejection and can offer some perspective?

[minime13]

Ok that's a fair point but if women have such high expectations what exactly do they bring to the table other than their pussy and looks? Because the vast majority of white collar, western 20 something, pretty professional females I meet in London have such a titantic sense of entitlement, they really do believe all they need to do is turn up. Provide the sex. And that's it. Then a man must perform like some circus monkey and meet strict criteria just to get it. It's disgusting, and it's why more and more men are becoming selfish players (like me) because of this absurdity we witness in modern women. If women continue to put such constraints on sex and intimacy, then, well, expect men to run their own game and have as many girls on the go as possible to satisfy their own sexual needs. It's what I do now, because I'm FORCED to do it, not because I want to. I wish things were easier with women, but quite frankly they are not. Women hold the strings, they have the power in the dating world despite feminists telling you otherwise. So us men have gotta get savvy in getting around these obstacles.

 

Whatsapp feeds, Facebook feeds, Instagram and duckface selfies... It's destroying modern women and turning them into vapid, egotistical narcissists.

 

The vast majority of 20 something professional women likely have high standards because their priority is their career, not their man. Women are driven in a different way than women used to be driven, because they can be. They don't put the effort into dating and attracting a male because that's not necessarily what they want right now, and their standards are high for the same reason. Not a priority.

 

Men, by the way, are not forced to become players. Players have always existed, so there is no force or coercion to do this just because the dating game has changed. What has happened is that men have, over time, lost some control over how the dating game works and some men just don't like it. For the record, some women don't really like it either, because everyone has to learn some new dynamics - not just men.

 

Honestly speaking, what you guys are running into with women in their mid-to-late 20's is pretty similar to what women run into with men in their early-to-mid 20's. Men in their early-to-mid 20's want no commitment, want to put priorities elsewhere, and are a bit pickier than they will be a few years later. As in hot counts, and nothing else matters.

 

We teach each other about dealing with the opposite sex, and it's tricky in the 20's because the pendulum swings back and forth. It evens out by the end of your 20's, and substance starts coming into play. Then we both have our refined tastes, and there's no particular power that one sex has over the other. It doesn't necessarily get easier, but there's usually a lot less bs to sift through.

 

But still - if you're going to have the attitude that a vast majority of women are this or that or any negative or insulting description, then you're not going to be successful.

[minime13]

CONSTANTLY failing is not attractive at all. I'm not sure if ZA has ever been successful to weigh against those many loses which caused him to quit.

 

 

 

If men had a higher chance of regular successes, they wouldn't take rejection so personally. They would have success stories to balance out against the failures and trying again wouldn't be this huge issue.

 

Did you find any other part of that post to be useful? Have you tried those tactics and they just don't work?

[GoodOnPaper]

The horse is starting to decompose.

 

Naaah . . . it's only 300 or so posts! Besides, you've had the best response in the whole thread. The only real power the not-that-noticeable average guy has in the dating game is to pull himself out of it. I never considered that a viable option -- I wanted companionship and emotional and physical acceptance too much. But in fact it's something more guys should consider and not wait until you're knee-deep in the marriage/family thing.

[autumnnight]

This is something that builds over time.

 

Approach 20 people, all reject you - Ouch

Approach 50 people, all reject you - Bigger Ouch

Approach 100+ people, all reject you - All People of the Opposite Gender Suck!

 

Are there any women on here who have experienced this scale of rejection and can offer some perspective?

 

I first realized I was "ugly" in kindergarten. I won't share the story, but let's just say that I have had enough experience with rejection and being made a fool of that I could CHOOSE to be jaded if I wanted to. I just don't want to.

 

It was only about 10-15 years AFTER college that I looked back at some of my photos from then (when I was the quintessential blond bombshell) that I realized, "Hey...I wasn't a troll was I?" To which my friend said, aghast, "You thought you were ugly then??" I said, "Well, yeah, because I didn't date much, almost never had a boyfriend, and most of the people I fell for did that awkward, 'you're nice but I don't see you that way' thing." I assumed there MUST be something fundamentally wrong with me. And when the man who vowed to love and cherish me ignored and rejected me, I assumed too that it must be me.

 

So yeah....I've experienced soul crushing rejection. It just didn't occur to me to hold an entire gender responsible.

[Keenly]

Naaah . . . it's only 300 or so posts! Besides, you've had the best response in the whole thread. The only real power the not-that-noticeable average guy has in the dating game is to pull himself out of it. I never considered that a viable option -- I wanted companionship and emotional and physical acceptance too much. But in fact it's something more guys should consider and not wait until you're knee-deep in the marriage/family thing.

 

 

Fair enough. But one can't only half pull out (haha, pull out) of the game and still remain invested. Then you aren't out.

 

 

To truly be out of the game, you must also be mentally and emotionally out. Can't let it get to you otherwise you aren't out of.it.

[MGX]

Did you find any other part of that post to be useful? Have you tried those tactics and they just don't work?

 

That was good advice, but when I was dating, I didn't have a problem approaching women and asking them out.

[GoodOnPaper]

Fair enough. But one can't only half pull out (haha, pull out) of the game and still remain invested. Then you aren't out.

 

 

To truly be out of the game, you must also be mentally and emotionally out. Can't let it get to you otherwise you aren't out of.it.

 

Yeah -- I think a similar thing applies to rejection. Guys aren't supposed to take rejection personally but if you numb yourself to rejection, aren't you also numbing yourself against connecting with women as well?

[Shining One]

So yeah....I've experienced soul crushing rejection. It just didn't occur to me to hold an entire gender responsible.

For the sake of my question, let's define rejection as follows: Person A approaches Person B and asks them out on a date. Person B says no.

 

I'm trying to get other perspectives on this. I personally didn't hit the "all women suck" phase until after 100+ in-my-face rejections. I grew out of it, but I've had a few lapses over the years.

[minime13]

That was good advice, but when I was dating, I didn't have a problem approaching women and asking them out.

 

I can understand the other poster's sentiment. I don't know that a majority of people, men or women, have had an overwhelmingly easy time when it comes to dating. The trick is, after learning to play to your best attributes and showing confidence, to not get discouraged. The people that reject are simply not right for you, or are too indecisive to have a successful relationship.

[xxoo]

Yeah -- I think a similar thing applies to rejection. Guys aren't supposed to take rejection personally but if you numb yourself to rejection, aren't you also numbing yourself against connecting with women as well?

 

Balancing self-protection with the vulnerability necessary to fall in love is something that girls learn early. The boy showering you with interest isn't in love. He's in lust. And certainly not just with you. You are just the one standing in front of him right now.

 

This can be a painful lesson at a tender age for many girls, long before they are women. But it is possible to overcome with a healthy attitude toward men and love.

 

And it is just one more reason that women would need to be fools if we didn't reject men liberally. We have to screen very carefully to protect our bodies and hearts.

[elaine567]

And it is just one more reason that women would need to be fools if we didn't reject men liberally. We have to screen very carefully to protect our bodies and hearts.

 

True. <<<<<<<<<<