Do modern women reject men too often?

[guest569]

As approximately 30% of the population are overweight, and most of the guys on here will not give a "fat woman" the time of day, then there must be a lot of women out there partner-less and a lot of women out there who will also receive rejections daily/weekly/monthly too.

 

Or does rejection only matter if you are a man?

 

I guess the jaded attitude seen on those who struggle and the rigidity as to who they will and won't date are factors that make rejection more likely.

The covert/overt misogyny expressed here on LS, I also guess is something most women will sense too.

In order to truly attract women it is necessary to like women and some, by the way they talk here, patently do NOT like women.

Full stop.

 

That is something they need to address and correct, in the same way rejected "fat women" need to address whether their weight is contributing to their lack of dating success too.

 

As it happens, i am slim. Haha! I guess fat is not the sole reason that men may reject a woman.

[elaine567]

As it happens, i am slim. Haha! I guess fat is not the sole reason that men may reject a woman.

 

I think there is a mindset that women are supposed to be rejected, that a women if she doesn't conform to standard prettiness guidelines or standard temperament guidelines, then her path in life is to be rejected - to be "left on the shelf".

She is then destined for "old maid" status.

Fine, it is as it should be - she was "worthless" anyway.

 

BUT men shouldn't be rejected, they choose the bachelorhood path if that is what they want to do, but they do not have it forced upon them. They do the choosing, they do the rejecting. They are in control.

 

In the modern Western world, many women now have the power to choose and also to reject, and that just doesn't sit well with those who have the above mindset.

[Zing]

Not straw man showing how absurd it is to have a an argument with someone who refutes anything that doesn't suit their world view aka confirmation bias. You literally just said womens opinions on this matter are not valid.

 

I can at least acknowledge the other side of the argument, hell I've been there myself I still don't think it as bad as many guys make it out to be.

 

No I didn't. Stop putting words in my mouth. At worst I said that in general women's opinions are strongly biased and solipsistic. Also some women are actually clued in, but they are rare.

 

You're not doing yourself any favours by responding with ad hominem when someone calls you out on your straw man. Also I have at least provided some statistics and cited some studies to to support my point, so I don't see how I am the one with confirmation bias here.

 

Which is happening maybe not at the pace you would like but it is.

 

How would you provide any changes in the balance of things?

 

In short society. They don't need me to tell you. This is my genuine belief as they happen to be people I care about a lot my sisters, my mother, my GF's past and present, my co-workers all discuss these issues they are important to them. Maybe that is why I have pretty good success with women is because I understand they have been given a ****ty deal in a lot of areas.

 

I disagree. You're just propping women up as victims again. Women do not have it that bad at all, in fact I've witnessed women gaining the upper hand simply because they are a woman.

 

Also what does my gender have to with the validity of my opinion?

 

Never implied that it did.

 

I used to find dating frustrating as hell as well. I did something about it.

 

What is sad is the bitter resentfulness that is coming from you. I was there once and as you suggested I used to pity guys like this once. Until I realised most of them had no interest in changing and thus are their own worst enemies when it comes to dating.

 

Why do you keep assuming I have no success with women or that my frustration with dating stems from that? I've done just fine, but I've also realized that dating and relationships are a sunk cost.

 

They are when you dismiss anything that is an inconvenient truth. Once again just pointing out how absurd it is to have an argument with someone who rejects anything that doesn't suit their world view.

 

See above

 

I think you will most women who have been rejected wish it was two denominational to fix their problems as you have suggested. I was more pointing out I certainly hope you don't express these views in public with women you meet because for most of them it would go down like a rock.

 

Not to women, no. I am aware that anything against women or feminism is immediately labelled as misogynistic. But I have reciprocal conversations with male friends and colleagues about this almost weekly.

 

Once again you are assuming they would get attention from men they want. Quantity != quality even so is that really a healthy way to deal with a breakup? I don't think so.

 

I don't assume that, I know they are getting attention from men they aren't attracted to. My point is that because of society and the current cultural landscape many women are made to believe that they are on a whole more valuable then men, and that permeates into every single dynamic of dating. Including who they are "attracted" too.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Zing

[guest569]

Interesting that after revealing that my self esteem has been shredded, first thing i am told is basically that I am probably fat and ugly and that is why I have faced rejections. In actual fact i am neither fat nor ugly in my own view. But beauty is subjective.

[loveweary11]

As approximately 30% of the population are overweight, and most of the guys on here will not give a "fat woman" the time of day, then there must be a lot of women out there partner-less and a lot of women out there who will also receive rejections daily/weekly/monthly too.

 

Or does rejection only matter if you are a man?

 

I guess the jaded attitude seen on those who struggle and the rigidity as to who they will and won't date are factors that make rejection more likely.

The covert/overt misogyny expressed here on LS, I also guess is something most women will sense too.

In order to truly attract women it is necessary to like women and some, by the way they talk here, patently do NOT like women.

Full stop.

 

That is something they need to address and correct, in the same way rejected "fat women" need to address whether their weight is contributing to their lack of dating success too.

 

This is getting scary. I normally butt heads with Elaine herr, but she's dead on.

 

When the whole world (or other gender) seems to be wrong and you're right, it's not the whole world/gender with the problem. It's you.

 

I think it would do a lot of good for these guys to start reading some eastern philosophy and applying it to life.

 

One quote that comes to mind:

 

"It is easier to change yourself than to change the world."

 

Guys, you're nit going to get more girls (assuming that's what you want) by p#ssing and moaning about them. You need to compete better with us. With me. We're the problem, not women. We get lots of girls because we out maneuver you in the dating phase.

 

I just gave out tons of secrets in this thread, but not one of these guys will take action, so they're not going to get girls. This seems ok, biologically, because it's survival of the fittest... and if yiu can't be bothered, or aren't intelligent enough to figure out the little mating game, maybe you aren't meant to procreate. Smart, strong, non lazy people are good for humanity's future. Complainers? Not so much.

[xxoo]

A lot of women actually have that experience. I had my fair share of rejections, starting as a child/teenager. It has destroyed my self esteem to this day.

 

The teen years are fraught with rejection for all. As a young teen, there were years between me developing interest in boys and boys developing interest in me. The hormones started raging long before the figure developed.

 

Then there is the social minefield of the dreaded Formal Dance The boys invite the girls, but many boys choose to go single rather than to invite any of the available girls. That, as a girl, can feel like rejection by ALL the boys.

 

It's a short phase, but most of us (boys and girls) come out with scars.

[ZA Dater]

Also why not date girl that like you a little more than you like them and give them a shot?

 

I think guys some times go after girls they know they cant get and get mad if she says NO.

 

I lucky I guess because girls i have meet in school ,work , out and about always said If I wanted a GF all I have to do is ask.

 

Aren't you indeed luck and thanks for the sanctimonious post, one hand you tell guys like me to try people we are not attracted to and on the other you tell us how special you are that you never had to do what you suggest.

 

 

So tell me Mr wise one, how do you know you cant get someone assuming she is single.

 

 

I will be fascinated in your immensely informed opinion seeing as you have more females interested in you than you can handle.

 

 

Sarcastic mode off.

[GoodOnPaper]

BUT men shouldn't be rejected, they choose the bachelorhood path if that is what they want to do, but they do not have it forced upon them. They do the choosing, they do the rejecting. They are in control.

 

Somehow, I didn't make it into that club. After many years of being lousy at being single, my wife came along and chose me. I went along with it largely because I could feel the bachelorhood path being forced upon me and I didn't have the patience with myself to see that 20 years later I would have more career and personal interests and hobbies than time to devote to them. Not doing at least 50% of the choosing -- unless, of course you would have chosen the woman who chose you, anyway -- takes a bite out of your masculinity. I see a lot of struggling guys on LS who seem to want women to do all the approaching -- be careful what you wish for . . .

 

In the modern Western world, many women now have the power to choose and also to reject, and that just doesn't sit well with those who have the above mindset.

 

Yes, women have the right to choose and they want to choose like men, giving short-term attraction qualities higher and higher value by the minute. So be it, but don't expect empathy when you find that these adonis men haven't had the motivation to build the character you are looking for in an LTR.

[ZA Dater]

As approximately 30% of the population are overweight, and most of the guys on here will not give a "fat woman" the time of day, then there must be a lot of women out there partner-less and a lot of women out there who will also receive rejections daily/weekly/monthly too.

 

Or does rejection only matter if you are a man?

 

I guess the jaded attitude seen on those who struggle and the rigidity as to who they will and won't date are factors that make rejection more likely.

The covert/overt misogyny expressed here on LS, I also guess is something most women will sense too.

In order to truly attract women it is necessary to like women and some, by the way they talk here, patently do NOT like women.

Full stop.

 

That is something they need to address and correct, in the same way rejected "fat women" need to address whether their weight is contributing to their lack of dating success too.

 

 

As usual you post something thought provoking and interesting.

 

 

Undoubtedly females get rejected, useless me even rejected two but I was kind about it and honest, those two things do make a difference and here is why

 

 

"Hi, unfortunately I think it would be best if we don't continue, my work schedule is hectic and I don't feel I will have enough time to spend with you, I think you are a great person with much to offer the right guy"

 

 

Versus

 

 

Being simply ignored.

 

 

There is a vast difference, the former is building someone up the latter is leaving them hanging and offering nothing at all. Life is about trying to build people up not to shoot them down. Yes, females are entitled to choose but in an ideal world if they don't like the guy be honest, don't simply ignore him.

 

Jaded attitude, I will put my hand up and acknowledge I have that, simply because continual rejection does that, it makes you jaded, last year I thought I had overcome that but once again it was rejection and to this day I do not know why considering intellectually speaking it worked. Had the person chosen to be honest with me instead of ignoring me I would have been able to take some positive out of it, instead one just becomes jaded.

 

 

Much is posted here about positive attitudes and a friend of mine has told me the same but I often wonder how many who preach this have been continually rejected, its like climbing a tree to reach that apple and falling out just before you can reach it, fall out of the tree often enough and you wont want to climb the tree anymore, people don't see to realise this. Just a bit of the apple would be enough to spur people to continue.

 

 

Brings me back to rejection, yes everyone has criteria and sometimes you just know it wont work but sometimes you know it could if one was given a chance. There are many good guys out there but as being one of those I often find it amazing what females deem to be attractive.

 

 

I don't have an issue with females, am I sore that I get rejected all the time, I am frustrated those who find me attractive are hugely obese, yes I am to both of those. Does it stop me motivating single people I know to keep going, no it doesn't but for me if I could extract some positive, perhaps 3 dates with someone I really liked then it would be worth continuing but at 31 the time for learning how to date has passed and as a guy females expect me to be Casanova in bed, expect me to be experienced at kissing, I am neither but fundamentally I am a good person and I think the attributes I bring to the table are enough, just not enough when weighed against what society expects.

[autumnnight]

Here's the deal, ladies.

 

None of these victim-men will accept a view that does not reinforce their paradigm. And they claim to know women better than we know ourselves because...well, I'm not sure why that is. They know us, but we cannot possibly know them.

 

Originally Posted by Krieger View Post

Some guys need to grow a pair come on guys if she says NO it not the end of the world.

White knight to the rescue!

 

And the above doesn't even make sense. Do we even know what the definition of a white knight is???

 

So I say leave them to their dateless ranting and consider threads like these an excellent weeding out process.

 

You can't fix this mindset.

[elaine567]

Yes, women have the right to choose and they want to choose like men, giving short-term attraction qualities higher and higher value by the minute. So be it, but don't expect empathy when you find that these adonis men haven't had the motivation to build the character you are looking for in an LTR.

 

See, I do not believe all the generalisation that adonis men are douchebags and unattractive men have hearts of gold.

 

The worst womaniser and abuser of women's feelings I have ever known was a short, chubby guy with a face only his mother could love.

He had lots of women, some beautiful, falling for him and he wasn't averse to cheating either.

His trick I guess was his confidence, his sparkling eyes and what the Irish would call "the gift of the gab" and somehow he just oozed sex, but he never talked about it.

He came across as a very funny guy and only those women that knew him well appeared insensitive to his "charms", when he was in pick up mode.

Unfortunately one of the girls I knew who went out with him, told me he hit her one night, so he had a pretty dark side too.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Sure, rather than address the arguments I put forth you

Zing, there is no point in addressing what you call your "arguments," you are just throwing out here a bunch of ignorant stuff that evidently YOU believe about what it's like to be a woman and you refute any input from the actual girls here, there is nothing to address unless we want to tell you how it actually is in our lives -and then you say we're lying. Srsly I don't think that kind of thing is supposed to be allowed here you are very disrespectful. but I will forgive you, you seem very angry and also like you have not much life experience and I hope your attitudes will change when you get older! :bunny:

[GoodOnPaper]

See, I do not believe all the generalisation that adonis men are douchebags and unattractive men have hearts of gold.

 

The siren call . . .

 

Does the mirror image apply to women, so guys can use this justification, too?

[elaine567]

The siren call . . .

 

Does the mirror image apply to women, so guys can use this justification, too?

 

I do not believe all beautiful women are b*itches and all ugly women have hearts of gold either, if that is what you mean by the mirror image.

[mongo]

Ok if all rejected men are to blame for whats hapened to them then wats the solution?

[GoodOnPaper]

I do not believe all beautiful women are b*itches and all ugly women have hearts of gold either, if that is what you mean by the mirror image.

 

Yes, that's what I meant.

 

Maybe, that is what's changing. Back in my day, it was assumed that a less attractive guy who seemed nice probably had better long-term qualities than the player who could attract women for ONS's at will -- it's just that we were considered "boring". Now, if LS is any guide, it is assumed that short-term attractive qualities also implies attractive long-term qualities. By and large, I don't think many women are going to find the long-term things they say they want with this approach, but again, so be it.

Edited June 20, 2015 by GoodOnPaper

[Shining One]

You can't fix this mindset.

I disagree. I had this mindset. I complained. Eventually, I learned. I gradually experienced some success and the mindset faded away in time.

[Phoe]

I never claimed such a thing. I am only talking from the perspective of the majority, and how things work for most of us. If you actually did pursue men(I'm guessing way above your value) then that is an enigma.

 

I'm not the only woman here who has pursued, not by a longshot! And the men I pursued were at my level. I am a realistic person. The last man I pursued was an average guy working a minimum wage job, slightly shorter than me, no college education, but a fun person to spend time with, we had a lot in common and thought it would be worth a shot, I got bold one day and asked him out. He politely declined.

 

I try to stay realistic. Right now I'm with a man who is above my level and I struggle with that quite a bit, because I feel I have nothing to offer. I don't know why a guy like him bothers with a girl like me. I never would've expected interest from a wonderful guy like him in a million years, and it still confuses me. I'm not sure of myself at all.

 

 

 

 

Were you out of shape or unable to dress yourself or maintain proper hygiene? Those are the only reasons I can think of that you wouldn't get dates for 6 years.

 

Putting aside your personal experience for one second, do you think that women face as much rejection as men?

 

I've almost always been an athletic person, but one year did have health problems and gained 30 pounds, but quickly lost it again. Most of my life I've been a normal body size, not big, not small, just average.

 

My hygiene is more fastidious than most. I don't know anyone else who floss twice a day! Lol. Sure I'm not perfect and I look like quite a sweaty mess after the gym, but for the most part I'd say my hygiene is better than most.

 

I've never claimed that women faced rejection at the same level, if you go back to my first post in this thread on the matter, you'd see that I said exactly that! That while I've had a 100% rejection rate over the last 10 years, it wasn't as if I was doing so on a weekly basis.

 

Look, I have been pursued as well. But my point is that it's totally different and when it's happened to me it's been maybe a once a year thing, and rarely is it from a woman who I would ever consider worth dating.

 

Being pursued is a daily occurrence for women. They are constantly made to feel how great they are and get validation without even trying.

 

And it's perfectly within your right to not want to date the women who pursued you. The men I pursued clearly didn't think I was worth dating either, and that's their right! I'd rather get turned down than have a man feel half-assed about me and date me anyway.

 

Lol a daily occurence?? I'd say you've been pursued more times than I have, since you're at once a year. My 6 year span of being single and not being able to do anything about it, combined with struggling still all the other years, leaves me feeling like I must be massively defective if women are supposed to be pursued daily. You'd think I'm a bloody ogre or something, lol.

[ZA Dater]

I gradually experienced some success and the mindset faded away in time.

 

 

This is important in the context of the thread, you experienced success which caused a mind set to fade away.

[Shining One]

I've come across 3 of the men on dating sites and Tinder who had rejected me (in that I would try talking to them but they wouldn't give me the time of day) .

OLD is pretty brutal. I reached out to over 1,000 women before I found a relationship. I hade a less than 1% response rate.

I've never counted the amount of rejections and do not wish to. Its pretty shameful for me.

This was probably a good idea. I'm not sure why, but I kept a mental count going. I also have a pretty good memory and the worst ones always stuck with me.

I never felt resentment for men. With break ups i struggled and blamed myself entirely. But others such as being ignored on dating sites, or being rejected after a date or two, i just accepted. Don't get me wrong, some of them were painful and upsetting too. But you have to accept it. You cant make someone like you.

It's good that you didn't feel resentment. I know I shouldn't have felt resentment either, but I did. I still blame myself quite often though.

 

Is there anything that you do to help yourself cope after a string of rejections? For me, I found that a few ONS is all I need to get my mind off the rejections and get back into the search.

[elaine567]

I don't have an issue with females, am I sore that I get rejected all the time, I am frustrated those who find me attractive are hugely obese, yes I am to both of those. Does it stop me motivating single people I know to keep going, no it doesn't but for me if I could extract some positive, perhaps 3 dates with someone I really liked then it would be worth continuing but at 31 the time for learning how to date has passed and as a guy females expect me to be Casanova in bed, expect me to be experienced at kissing, I am neither but fundamentally I am a good person and I think the attributes I bring to the table are enough, just not enough when weighed against what society expects.

 

I think it is time to grasp the nettle, seize the day and get out there and kiss someone.

She doesn't need to be the love of your life, she doesn't need to be someone you are immediately attracted to, or someone you have a deep connection with, just break the duck and do it.

Get a new profile if you do not want to mess up your existing one, but post some fun pics and make up a less serious blurb, and like/swipe everyone in sight.

Choose an extrovert, sexy girl(s) who you think would be up for kissing, girls who will talk the hind legs off a donkey and make the first move even on the first date and leave the quiet, shy and thoughtful ones well alone.

Learn how to talk to them/kiss/make out - make it your priority and your new project.

Once you have that under your belt, you will exude a new confidence and the next step is ... sex...

but do not put yourself under too much under pressure, talking and kissing first, one thing at a time.

[elaine567]

Yes, that's what I meant.

 

Maybe, that is what's changing. Back in my day, it was assumed that a less attractive guy who seemed nice probably had better long-term qualities than the player who could attract women for ONS's at will -- it's just that we were considered "boring". Now, if LS is any guide, it is assumed that short-term attractive qualities also implies attractive long-term qualities. By and large, I don't think many women are going to find the long-term things they say they want with this approach, but again, so be it.

 

I think it is better not to make generalisations and look at the individuals concerned.

Not all attractive people are players, some of course are, you are correct there, but not all.

I do think the assumption that unattractive = nice, has landed many in a pickle with men/women who are unattractive and not particularly nice with it either.

[MGX]

I disagree. I had this mindset. I complained. Eventually, I learned. I gradually experienced some success and the mindset faded away in time.

 

This is important in the context of the thread, you experienced success which caused a mind set to fade away.

 

Exactly what I'm talking about. A win makes all the difference in the world to a man with 100% failure rate. Now that guy sees that a woman who likes him IS possible.

[katiegrl]

This is something that builds over time.

 

Approach 20 people, all reject you - Ouch

Approach 50 people, all reject you - Bigger Ouch

Approach 100+ people, all reject you - All People of the Opposite Gender Suck!

 

Are there any women on here who have experienced this scale of rejection and can offer some perspective?

 

No can't say that I have....but IMO common sense would dictate that if you approach 100+ people and all 100+ people reject you...it's time to change (or at least tweak) your *approach*?

 

That's what I would do, except I would not be waiting until after 100 guys rejected me.

 

I would be looking "within" and introspecting about why it is I continue getting rejected after the first 10 rejected me...or even less!

 

That is what makes the most sense to me anyway. NOT carry on with your same approach, continue getting rejected, and then blame the women for not being attracted to you.

 

Definition of insanity -- repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting a different result.

 

Not gonna happen.

 

My perspective.......

[Phoe]

No can't say that I have....but IMO common sense would dictate that if you approach 100+ people and all 100+ people reject you...it's time to change (or at least tweak) your *approach*?

 

That's what I would do, except I would not be waiting until after 100 guys rejected me.

 

I would be looking "within" and introspecting about why it is I continue getting rejected after the first 10 rejected me...or even less!

 

That is what makes the most sense to me anyway. NOT carry on with your same approach, continue getting rejected, and then blame the women for not being attracted to you.

 

Definition of insanity -- repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting a different result.

 

Not gonna happen.

 

My perspective.......

 

This exactly!!

 

I was always looking at myself for my failures, not at others. As many know, I spent years here on this forum being introspective, getting outside perspectives, always trying to improve, figure out where I was going wrong. Sometimes it was hard to find any answers, but I at least was always trying.

 

The men who weren't interested in me were not at fault. The common denominator was me, so I was always trying to work on myself.