Wife wants to maintain friendship with AP's sister

[sandylee1]

OP

 

A question for you.

 

Your wife came back because the OM was not relationship material, not because she realised it's you she loves. What about if the man IS relationship material?

 

You've got your wife back by default, because it didn't work out with OM, that would really bother me even more than her friendship with his sister who was part of this.

 

I see it as he's not relationship material , but he's okay to have great sex with........

 

What stops it happening again? Because the links she wants to maintain show NO remorse at all.

 

 

Typo

 

I missed out a word. I meant to say..

 

What about if the NEXT man IS relationship material

[Radu]

I admitted to the dating one long ago, and the other four right before she changed her phone number. She claims that hearing me admit to MY infidelities caused a shift in her, and made her want to stay with me. And because I delayed, she felt that I was holding a power position. Once I admitted all, she apparently felt that were were equally at fault for our dysfunction, so the slate was wiped clean.

 

No, you were not equal, but this post of yours is very good insight into her mind, so let's analyze.

 

I admitted to the dating one long ago, and the other four right before she changed her phone number. She claims that hearing me admit to MY infidelities caused a shift in her, and made her want to stay with me.

You admitted she is wearing the pants.

This together with the quoted means that she sensed she could not have you as a backup [and she broke it up to explore the OM], and she came back fast.

 

And because I delayed, she felt that I was holding a power position.

This is key, she [like most ppl] responds to power.

The best ppl give their selfless love to you without you having to lord power over them.

They give it to you even when they know you are down, and will bring you up instead of trying to renegociate their contract.

 

Your wife is naturally manipulative.

 

Once I admitted all, she apparently felt that were were equally at fault for our dysfunction, so the slate was wiped clean.

You knocked the pedestal from below your feet.

You got off your soapbox.

 

It's funny, but pay attention to this, a few flings [as harm to her] is equal to a 3 yr long term affair with your friend and her good friend knowing about it ... as harm to you.

This means she values herself higher than you.

This is the key to the whole thing, that you are worth less than her ... that it is OK to put less in the relationship because your input pound for pound is not as good.

 

This cannot be talked over.

It cannot be negociated because it would mean she has to accept that she has been treating you in not the greatest of ways for the duration of your marriage, and because at her age, ppl are settled in their ways.

Ppl do change when something happens to them.

 

You almost caused that something when you started moving away from her, she started following and chasing you.

Bet it felt great.

 

You need to renegociate your relationship with her in such a way that you can force her to lead the Reconcilliation.

If you decided to stay, you need to make her see you as a leader, as a man.

 

So, find the 180, apply it, and also, see if you can setup a trust with your half of the marital assets [in case of death, for your assets to go directly to your children when they grow up without her having the possibility to do anything to them].

Don't say anything and wait for her to notice the change, you putting yourself first.

 

Then tell her that you decided to lead a happy life; that you decided to give your marriage a deadline [until you feel nothing for her], if it comes, you move on, if not ... you stay together.

Something like this.

And that she has to fix this, to lead this reconciliation.

That she has to pull the wagon and that all decisions concerning this reconciliation are hers and hers alone.

And give up your MC if you have yet to discuss the affairs until now and how they are 'equal'.

 

If the reconciliation works, keep up the above ... until it becomes 2nd nature, when you become a good clean, sober, man.

A man that your wife will admire, your daughter will use as a rolemodel in relationships and your son will look up to.

 

Actions speak louder than words, do the 180.

Go pump some iron, change your clothes to something more attractive, more flattering.

Stop letting her buy you clothes if need be.

Start cooking if she does it all.

Start washing clothes if she does it all.

Remove the things she can lord over you, remove the leash of training and reliance on her.

 

You are getting close to 50, and when you hit 60 you will notice that a lot of men are dead from heart disease or cancer, they drop like flies.

Also, fit, good looking 60 yr old men, go for younger women, 45 yr olds.

The older she gets, the less power she has on the dating market, the more power you have on the dating market.

The more you can negociate [or just plain enforce] the unspoken contract with her.

Because she is the type to constantly negociate it.

[Radu]

I like this. You don't have to divorce her - she will make the choice herself based on what really matters to her - you and her children, or the friend and/or AP. You only need to establish your boundaries and stick to them. And you will truly know where her priorities lie.

 

An open marriage probably won't work well, as she'll resume the affair but with your approval. You'd have to find someone for yourself, which may not happen quickly or at all. So, you'd still be suspicious and resentful. In my experience, open relationship only work when the core relationship is very strong and stable.

 

An open marriage means that the OP has options, can get his needs filled elsewhere.

It also means she has less control over him, so she will never consent to it.

 

An open marriage [on her hand and without him knowing] is what she had when she was having the affair.

[cgiles]

Married 26 years. She had 3 year affair with our neighbor (my former "friend" and drinking partner. I am now 2.5 years sober). Dday was a year ago.

 

So they had time to devellop real love feelings, not just infatuation

 

We stayed together for about 5 months, then separated for 3 months. She dated him while separated, and concluded that he was not relationship material. We got back together 4 months ago.

 

Which make you being her plan B. Who initiated the separation, who suggested to be back together ?

 

She last spoke to him when she went to visit his sister - her friend - 3 months ago.

 

So your reconciliation started 3 months ago

 

Since then she has changed her phone number and completely cut him off (I believe).

 

You believe, you mean you don't check her phone, phone's bill, ect ?

 

 

Things are much, much better with us. I forgive her

 

Only in 3 months ?

 

- no one is perfect, especially me,

 

Did you ****ed your neigboor during 3 years ?

 

and and she is committed to our marriage and family on many fronts. But she strongly wants to maintain a close friendship with his sister (who lives in the apartment above his).

 

So she wants to rub her affairs in your face all the time ?

 

She says she'll never go to her apartment - that they'll meet off site. She says she'll ask her friend not to talk about him.

 

I've expressed to her that this arrangement doesn't work for me. That I am afraid that being close to his sister could rekindle the affair. That she is a reminder of him in how she looks, acts, etc. that it is keeping the door ajar, even a little. She adamantly disagrees, and thinks she can have a relationship with his sister without any possibility of rekindling the affair. I have explained that it is a barrier to trust. That she can do whatever she wants, but I will not be able to be fully vulnerable in our relationship if she maintains that friendship. That it will be very difficult to me to be "all in" knowing that she lunches with her affair partner's sister. That I will not feel truly safe in our marriage.

 

My question: am I being unreasonable? Is this my trust issue to work on, and and make peace with myself about her friendship with his affair partner's sister?

 

Please don't say "dump her". We have kids, and they are not "resilient".

 

Why they are not ? Did they had some kind of abuse younger ?

 

Even if she keeps that friendship, I am confident that we can have a civil, friendly, even loving (to a degree), relationship.

 

Would you leave her the appartment for the nights she wants to receive some men friends ?

 

I would like to have an "all in" marriage. I would love to be able to be vulnerable, and to trust my wife. I'm just not sure I can if she's keeping ties to the family of her affair partner.

 

 

So what you want to do, is it to show to your kids than it's ok to be disrespected, that's it ?

 

Because that's what you will do.

 

I don't say you dump her, but ask you what is a deal breaker for you or not.

 

You should read this book asap : https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

 

And "The married man sex life primer 2011" by Athol Kay, it's not about sex, but relationship.

[Radu]

Most likely she's not hot on it for your side, not hers.

 

Honestly tho that sounds like a sensible conclusion above. You recognize that you're not in control, define the resulting terms, and go from there (not all in). It's not the best scenario obvs but given that you've chosen to prioritize the kids, I admire your discretion and determination.

 

(I'm a little surprised she told you how good the sex was with her AP ....that says to me that she gets off on pushing you, at least a little. Otherwise it would just be extremely mean, but she does seem to like you so I doubt it's just sticking pins in you.)

 

Also, it is humiliation ... which feeds into the fact that cuckolding is a form of humiliation.

[jen1447]

I was reluctant to mention that bc it comes up a lot, but I do usually wonder about it when I see guys who tolerate infidelity very good-naturedly. (That's not necessarily you OP, but you are handling it very well all things considered.)

[Cheezy]

We've had a couple of long talks in which I've told her that continuing the relationship with the sister won't work for our marriage. Among other things, I've explained that it's a foot in the door, that it would always be an issue in our marriage. Also went through the various scenarios (you won't talk about him? Isn't that just making him the elephant in the room? What about birthday parties, etc?) and she says she sees and understands my point of view. I keep saying, How would you feel if roles were reversed? That seems to be sinking in for her.

 

She says the sister never knew about the affair until dday. So I said, so you lied to her for 3 years, too? And she's OK with that? And you helped break up her brothers marriage? And she's ok with that? And this is some wonderful friendship you don't want to lose? Doesn't sound like much of a friendship to me.

 

 

I asked her point blank about her communication with the sister (some texting, 1 phone call, no visits). I asked point blank about communication with the OM (nothing).

 

 

She seems resigned to cutting it off with the sister, but wants to talk to the MCs about it. I welcome that. I think the more we have rational talk about it the more she will see how weird it is.

[understand50]

We've had a couple of long talks in which I've told her that continuing the relationship with the sister won't work for our marriage. Among other things, I've explained that it's a foot in the door, that it would always be an issue in our marriage. Also went through the various scenarios (you won't talk about him? Isn't that just making him the elephant in the room? What about birthday parties, etc?) and she says she sees and understands my point of view. I keep saying, How would you feel if roles were reversed? That seems to be sinking in for her.

 

She says the sister never knew about the affair until dday. So I said, so you lied to her for 3 years, too? And she's OK with that? And you helped break up her brothers marriage? And she's ok with that? And this is some wonderful friendship you don't want to lose? Doesn't sound like much of a friendship to me.

 

 

I asked her point blank about her communication with the sister (some texting, 1 phone call, no visits). I asked point blank about communication with the OM (nothing).

 

 

She seems resigned to cutting it off with the sister, but wants to talk to the MCs about it. I welcome that. I think the more we have rational talk about it the more she will see how weird it is.

 

Cheezy,

 

Take this in a nice way, but your wife seems to be one of those people that have problems seeing her actions as hurtful, and not being able to place herself in another shoes. This episode, may help her "grow" a bit. She is self centered, as the Affair shows that, and I hope that in MC and IC that is being worked on.

 

At some point, she is going to have to come to terms with all the pain and hurt she has caused you and your kids. I am not saying this in a bad way, or saying "dump" her, just pointing out she needs to work on herself as well as the marriage. I think that you did the right thing in this, you and her have lots of work ahead, but this may, I hope, be a good start in showing her that at a fundamental level she is not looking out for you, your feeling and your relationship together.

 

Cheezy, in the end it is up to you what you want from your wife, she may be all "in" for the marriage now at one level, but both of you should explore, how this happened, and why she seems to no be able to see your "ego", "self" and "manhood" in a meaningful way. She may love you, but, she needs to respect you, and also work to not cause pain and hurt.

 

After my wife's finical infidelity, I told her I did not want the marriage we had, we had to make a new one. We are still working on it. I think you both should be, or are, at that point. You need a new marriage with this woman, ask her what she wants in it, and let her know what you expect, then work towards it. Easier said then done It will take lot's of small steps, but it can be done.

 

I wish you both luck.

[Timmos]

You're not the one being unreasonable. Considering her behavior, she should be willing to do anything to stay with you. Remember, *she* is not the prize to be won here.

 

I tried to play nice with my wife after what she did. I tried to "nice" her back. It was a terrible waste of my time and blow to my self esteem later on. This went on for weeks until the anger set in. After that, I told her she could do wtf ever she wanted, but if I felt she was disrespecting me in any way, she'd be doing it on her own.

 

Once she realized that I was seriously not willing to put up with any more of her ****, things changed drastically. Her life long best friend was dropped with NC. Anyone who had in the slightest way approved of what she was doing was dropped with NC. Suddenly she started busting her ass to try and fix things.

 

Eventually the "I'm in charge now" mindset has to lessen, but damn it, it truly helps - and feels good.

 

Youve been betrayed, you can not truly trust her with this behavior. You are in charge now. At least of yourself. And you don't have to put up with it.

 

Let her be friends, but let her be friends without you. That should be her only option.

[singer23]

Married 26 years. She had 3 year affair with our neighbor (my former "friend" and drinking partner. I am now 2.5 years sober). Dday was a year ago. We stayed together for about 5 months, then separated for 3 months. She dated him while separated, and concluded that he was not relationship material. We got back together 4 months ago. She last spoke to him when she went to visit his sister - her friend - 3 months ago. Since then she has changed her phone number and completely cut him off (I believe).

 

Things are much, much better with us. I forgive her - no one is perfect, especially me, and and she is committed to our marriage and family on many fronts. But she strongly wants to maintain a close friendship with his sister (who lives in the apartment above his). She says she'll never go to her apartment - that they'll meet off site. She says she'll ask her friend not to talk about him.

 

I've expressed to her that this arrangement doesn't work for me. That I am afraid that being close to his sister could rekindle the affair. That she is a reminder of him in how she looks, acts, etc. that it is keeping the door ajar, even a little. She adamantly disagrees, and thinks she can have a relationship with his sister without any possibility of rekindling the affair. I have explained that it is a barrier to trust. That she can do whatever she wants, but I will not be able to be fully vulnerable in our relationship if she maintains that friendship. That it will be very difficult to me to be "all in" knowing that she lunches with her affair partner's sister. That I will not feel truly safe in our marriage.

 

My question: am I being unreasonable? Is this my trust issue to work on, and and make peace with myself about her friendship with his affair partner's sister?

 

Please don't say "dump her". We have kids, and they are not "resilient". Even if she keeps that friendship, I am confident that we can have a civil, friendly, even loving (to a degree), relationship.

 

I would like to have an "all in" marriage. I would love to be able to be vulnerable, and to trust my wife. I'm just not sure I can if she's keeping ties to the family of her affair partner.

 

 

You are not even plan B. More like Plan Z or something worse than that.

 

When you have absolutely no standards, why bother ? Maybe you can have an oepn relationship and be done with the pretense.

 

You cannot act like a doormat and expect people to respect you.

[Try]

She seems resigned to cutting it off with the sister, but wants to talk to the MCs about it. I welcome that. I think the more we have rational talk about it the more she will see how weird it is.

This is her holding out hope that she can convince the MC to see it her way. Even if the odds are low, is her one last chance. You are being weak to allow this. Cheaters will not do everything that the MC says as they think for themselves and have to be convinced, yet they expect that their cheated on spouse to do everything that the MC says when the MC agrees with the cheater. Look up "sh*t test", because you are in one now.

 

You need to tell your wife that you are having a hard enough time dealing with the affair, and that you cannot deal with her continuing to have the affair partner's sister in her life. Tell her that although chances are the MC will agree with you, it does not matter if the MC does or does not. That this is all about what you are willing to deal with in trying to make a go of saving the marriage. That in the unlikely event that the MC agrees with your wife, that will mean that she and the MC will get along great in future meetings without you there, because you know that the sister will not work for you in the long run so you might as well move on. Tell your wife that she is either all in or not all in, and if she is not willing to do the heavy lifting needed to help you heal, that you both should not waste any more time on this. Again, tell her she either drops the sister or not, and the MC has nothing to do with how you feel about this.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Try

[Radu]

We've had a couple of long talks in which I've told her that continuing the relationship with the sister won't work for our marriage. Among other things, I've explained that it's a foot in the door, that it would always be an issue in our marriage. Also went through the various scenarios (you won't talk about him? Isn't that just making him the elephant in the room? What about birthday parties, etc?) and she says she sees and understands my point of view. I keep saying, How would you feel if roles were reversed? That seems to be sinking in for her.

 

She says the sister never knew about the affair until dday. So I said, so you lied to her for 3 years, too? And she's OK with that? And you helped break up her brothers marriage? And she's ok with that? And this is some wonderful friendship you don't want to lose? Doesn't sound like much of a friendship to me.

 

 

I asked her point blank about her communication with the sister (some texting, 1 phone call, no visits). I asked point blank about communication with the OM (nothing).

 

 

She seems resigned to cutting it off with the sister, but wants to talk to the MCs about it. I welcome that. I think the more we have rational talk about it the more she will see how weird it is.

 

This attitude is good, very good.

 

You cannot be the one who removes the chestnuts from the fire, because then you are bailing her out.

You have to be the one who is ready to move on, and she has to be the one who restarts the relationship, fixes what she destroyed and learns something (hopefully) in the process.

[fellini]

I should think we could make the same assessment of the OP who has admitted 4 or so separate excursions into the abyss without the slightest hesitation or interest "to see how his actions were hurtful or to be able to place himself in another's shoes"

 

In other words, I think they are both human, like the rest of us, and flawed. We don't know what a perfect marriage looks like, but we know that these two will probably never have one. But I don't have one either. And I don't know if I know anyone who has a perfect marriage. Not having a perfect marriage is not incentive to find a better one. Just to grow up, accept that there is no magic, there is just hard work and the rewards for knowing you have done your best to be your best.

 

Take this in a nice way, but your wife seems to be one of those people that have problems seeing her actions as hurtful, and not being able to place herself in another shoes.

[autumnnight]

I should think we could make the same assessment of the OP who has admitted 4 or so separate excursions into the abyss without the slightest hesitation or interest "to see how his actions were hurtful or to be able to place himself in another's shoes"

 

In other words, I think they are both human, like the rest of us, and flawed. We don't know what a perfect marriage looks like, but we know that these two will probably never have one. But I don't have one either. And I don't know if I know anyone who has a perfect marriage. Not having a perfect marriage is not incentive to find a better one. Just to grow up, accept that there is no magic, there is just hard work and the rewards for knowing you have done your best to be your best.

 

Absolutely spot on

[William]

Folks, due to some posts I deleted which violated our policies, I'll refer members to this:

 

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With this in mind, please continue the topical discussion, it being the wife wanting to maintain a friendship with the AP's sister. Thanks!

[Cheezy]

I should think we could make the same assessment of the OP who has admitted 4 or so separate excursions into the abyss without the slightest hesitation or interest "to see how his actions were hurtful or to be able to place himself in another's shoes"

 

In other words, I think they are both human, like the rest of us, and flawed. We don't know what a perfect marriage looks like, but we know that these two will probably never have one. But I don't have one either. And I don't know if I know anyone who has a perfect marriage. Not having a perfect marriage is not incentive to find a better one. Just to grow up, accept that there is no magic, there is just hard work and the rewards for knowing you have done your best to be your best.

 

Thank you Fellini! I agree: spot-on. Except that I have talked about how my actions were hurtful. I have tremendous regret for my actions. I am willing to whatever it takes to regain my wife's trust, and have expressed that to her. I am very empathetic having experienced what it's like to have a wayward spouse. Thing is, she can only imagine what it would be like if I fell in love with another woman. She can only guess at what it would feel like to know that I've done sexual things with another woman that I've never done with her. I know that pain.

 

These situations are complicated and full of nuance. I don't see the world in black and white, with easy, pat, or obvious answers. We are flawed. I am flawed. I'm lousy at quoting the bible, but I think there's something about Casting the First Stone in there.

 

Obviously, we've got some issues in our marriage. Big ones. Am I perfectly healthy - mentally, physically, spiritually? No. And no. And no. But I'm working on all three. Progress, not perfection. Is my wife perfect? No, and no no. But we've got our good points, and so far, we've both said we're willing to work on our marriage. To work toward an All-In, Lean-On-Me kind of marriage. That's something, right? It would be really easy to give up and get a divorce. I'm not saying divorce would be easy, but the decision to divorce would be easy to come to. Deciding to stay and work and forgive and love and share and commit -- that takes guts.

 

Again, thanks to all of you for your thoughtful replies. You have been very helpful. I originally wrote to try to gain some clarity about the "reasonableness" of being uncomfortable with the situation. Now I see that it's not about what anyone else thinks about it. It's whether it's OK with ME - whether I can live with that relationship AND continue in marriage. There's no objective "reasonableness" about any of this.