Sunk Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Hello, My wife of 9 years left on a 6 week hiking holiday in Asia with a single girlfriend (who is also a close friend of mine) about 3 months ago. Having 100% trust in my wife, and having little interest in hiking, I freely encouraged my wife to go and have her dream vacation, while I looked after the dog. Long story short: hours after her arrival I was suspicious that she cheated, confronted her, and she admitted to infidelity. We are now 5 weeks beyond D-Day, and are in the middle of marital hell. We are both now in individual and couples counselling. We are so at odds, that we can not even agree as to what to call the cheating, thus I'm turning to the judgement of you readers, and I thank anyone in advance for responding. These are only the details that my wife has admitted to: Day1: flirting and a goodnight kiss Day2: flirting, kissing, groping, all day and night long Day3: both naked in bed, condom on, about to have sex but a knock on the door prevented this. Some hours later oral sex. Day4: oral sex Day5 to Day18: Multiple Facebook messages daily, including a love song created and sent to my wife. My wife had called this 'a four night stand'. Yet the cheating involved both an emotional and sexual element. Now she refers to it as a 'fling' which was inspired by this quote from a blog that she respects: According to one study, one in four affairs was a mere fling, lasting less than a week. Yet this quote actually states that a fling is an affair. So in summary, my wife admits to cheating, but was this a four night stand, a fling, or as I believe: an affair. What should this be called?????? Link to post Share on other sites
KBarletta Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Regardless of what you call it, she broke her marital vows, no? Does it matter if it was four nights or 20? I would call it an affair if it was more than a one-night stand, personally. The issue is not how many nights or what to call it, but whether you can get past it and trust each other again. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
understand50 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Hello, My wife of 9 years left on a 6 week hiking holiday in Asia with a single girlfriend (who is also a close friend of mine) about 3 months ago. Having 100% trust in my wife, and having little interest in hiking, I freely encouraged my wife to go and have her dream vacation, while I looked after the dog. Long story short: hours after her arrival I was suspicious that she cheated, confronted her, and she admitted to infidelity. We are now 5 weeks beyond D-Day, and are in the middle of marital hell. We are both now in individual and couples counselling. We are so at odds, that we can not even agree as to what to call the cheating, thus I'm turning to the judgement of you readers, and I thank anyone in advance for responding. These are only the details that my wife has admitted to: Day1: flirting and a goodnight kiss Day2: flirting, kissing, groping, all day and night long Day3: both naked in bed, condom on, about to have sex but a knock on the door prevented this. Some hours later oral sex. Day4: oral sex Day5 to Day18: Multiple Facebook messages daily, including a love song created and sent to my wife. My wife had called this 'a four night stand'. Yet the cheating involved both an emotional and sexual element. Now she refers to it as a 'fling' which was inspired by this quote from a blog that she respects: According to one study, one in four affairs was a mere fling, lasting less than a week. Yet this quote actually states that a fling is an affair. So in summary, my wife admits to cheating, but was this a four night stand, a fling, or as I believe: an affair. What should this be called?????? OK, what she did was cheating, she had sex with another man. As affairs go, it is not a ONS, it is a fling. May be it helps you that this was not done over several weeks or months under your nose, and lying to you each day, but she is a cheater. I would suggest that her story of not being penetrated, is probably not the whole story, but in the end does not matter, she is a cheater. She is trying to make what she did less worse, do not let her get a way with it. Let her know, that if you are to decide to give her a second chance, you need the whole true story, she must stop minimizing what she did, and accept the conquests of hurting and breaking her marriage vows. She is in regret not remorse. I wish you luck. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 It's a fling. So she started this only hours after arriving for her vacation? That tells me she fully intended to do it or at least allow it to happen going in. I think that's more telling as to the state your marriage is in than the fling itself. btw how is it you confronted her hours after her arrival and she was doing all this into day 5? Did she continue even after she knew you knew and had confronted her? If so ....damn. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
LoveMyCat Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I am surpised it matters what it is called. She had sex with someone other than you. Once, twice, oral, whatever. You have to face that and decide if you can still be with her. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pteromom Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 It's both... The sentence says "one in four affairs was a mere fling" So a "fling" is a TYPE of "affair". Her affair was a fling, vs. a long-term or committed affair. Still an affair though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sunk Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 It's a fling. So she started this only hours after arriving for her vacation? That tells me she fully intended to do it or at least allow it to happen going in. I think that's more telling as to the state your marriage is in than the fling itself. btw how is it you confronted her hours after her arrival and she was doing all this into day 5? Did she continue even after she knew you knew and had confronted her? If so ....damn. Sorry. I probably didn't explain the timeline too well. She was away for 6 weeks. She met him in the 3rd week of the trip, and they kissed the first night of meeting (Day1 of my timeline). Sexual relationship was for the next 4 days. Messaging then took place over the next 2 weeks. The last of these message was exchanged the day she came home. She then deleted all of these messages. So when I said I confronted hours after her arrival, I meant her arrival back home, and not arrival to Asia. Hope that's more clear. Cheers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 i'd dump her immediately just for the amount of gaslighting. "four one night stands"...? LMAO. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Sunk, your timeline is irrelevant. She cheated. What you want to call it makes no difference in the grand scheme of your marriage. What DOES matter is do you want to continue staying married to someone who has disavowed the marriage contract and her fidelity? 5 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 also, a fling IS an affair. a one night stand IS an affair. like, it really doesn't matter how long it lasted -- cheating is cheating. keep in mind that she is probably lying about everything & is trying to tone down the seriousness of the situation. why don't you have a fling...? you got someone you might be interested in? is open marriage an option? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sunk Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 also, a fling IS an affair. a one night stand IS an affair. like, it really doesn't matter how long it lasted -- cheating is cheating. keep in mind that she is probably lying about everything & is trying to tone down the seriousness of the situation. why don't you have a fling...? you got someone you might be interested in? is open marriage an option? Must admit Minimariah, I've considered all 3 of your suggestions over the last 5 weeks. I feel I deserve it. But then I feel it would not be conducive to reconciliation if I were to do the same as my wife. Not sure if I could handle an open marriage judging by the intensity of my feelings after her cheating. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dutchman1 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I'm realy sorry that you are going tru this, It's not your fault, your wife wanted this to happen, probable thoght of it a long time. Your wife did have a 18 day affair. and has got poor bounderies. This was NOT A MISTAKE or a OEPS ! Is it important for you if there was a knock on the door? what stopped her after the door was answerd? why did she not continue the F***? What does her single friend say about it? There a lots of married woman who go to a diffrent country for a seks vacation, google it. Get yourself tested asap. There must me more says my gutt, this was all planned and exicuted. Maybe tshe had seks twice every day, you don't know. A cheater lies, and she's in damage controll mode now. If you feel that the truth is still hidden, go for a poly, and burn her pasport, or sent her back to her affair friend, but secure your assets first. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sunk Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Really appreciate all of your quick responses. This helps. Thus far, I'm seeing the general consensus as: 1) A 'fling' is still an affair. 2) The wording shouldn't really matter, its whether or not I can reconcile that matters. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
deg20 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 collie, terrier, poodle, lab, beagle, boxer, Doberman...all types of dogs kissing, fondling, oral, petting, groping, naked cuddling...all types of cheating when married doesn't matter if you call it fling, affair, whatever...don't bargain and whittle this down to a label. It's fidelity. plain and simple. Sorry...hope you do the right thing 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 How did you go from this: Having 100% trust in my wife to this??? Long story short: hours after her arrival I was suspicious that she cheated Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
deg20 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 How did you go from this: to this??? Mr. Lucky That's what I was thinking Mr. Lucky...do tell, sunk! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Really appreciate all of your quick responses. This helps. Thus far, I'm seeing the general consensus as: 1) A 'fling' is still an affair. 2) The wording shouldn't really matter, its whether or not I can reconcile that matters. I'm wondering your reasons for wanting to reconcile with someone who isn't trustworthy and respectful of the commitment you thought you agreed on? She's ruined your M. Now she's minimizing the damage she caused. If your idea of M is a commited partner - you have evidence that she isn't that gal. You can't change who she is - you are allowed to say that it's not enough for you to continue the marriage. Do you know where your healthy boundary is? What does that look like for you? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Really appreciate all of your quick responses. This helps. Thus far, I'm seeing the general consensus as: 1) A 'fling' is still an affair. 2) The wording shouldn't really matter, its whether or not I can reconcile that matters. There is the crux of the matter. Are you okay with a "fling" and what - in your mind - constitutes "a fling?" Flirting? Touching? There are many men who don't care if their wife flirts because they know it won't lead to anything more. My husband is okay hugging and kissing friends - both male and female - on the cheeks or lips because he knows that, for me, there is no sexual intent; it is just my way of being affectionate with close friends. (And usually he is right there, witnessing my exuberance). However, I am not getting messages on a daily basis or love songs written to me. I am not naked in bed or having oral sex with any of these people. So - again - what is a "fling" to you? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sunk Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 How did you go from this: to this??? Mr. Lucky We had communicated via email for her entire trip. She was very detailed about everyone she and her girlfriend met. Her girlfriend met a Portuguese guy and my wife said that she had to play 'wingman' for 4 days while her girlfriend had the romance. Once home, she mentioned that her girlfriend's romance was travelling with his friend, also from Portugal, lets call him 'Pedro'. I became suspicious because this was the first I had heard of Pedro. Once she went to bed I did a google search for 'Facebook'. Once I had typed in 'Faceb, a string popped up below the google search box that went something like: Facebook/messages/Pedro.Castillo/messages(1). Knowing then that the first thing my wife had done when she got home was to jump on Facebook, and open a message from him, I confronted her. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Southern Sun Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I am very sorry that your wife cheated on you. (Full disclosure, I am a former WW). I know things are very emotional right now and others might even be suggesting you should immediately pull the plug - she's a cheater after all. Perhaps that's the right thing to do, but I'm not sure you know that yet. The thing that disturbs me the most is the level of minimizing I hear from her. It was "a fling" and she is hanging onto some quote from a blog. No, she cheated. I don't even like the term "affair" because it romanticizes something that should be called what it is - CHEATING. You are lying, betraying, and hiding. It's cheating. Others have suggested she likely isn't telling you everything. It's POSSIBLE she is, but probable she is not. Most adults with physical access to each other don't stop at oral sex with 4 days back to back. Even if she did stop there...it doesn't really matter. Who stuck what where...? The line has been crossed. She is still trying to make it sound less bad. Fortunately, the guy is in another country. That's good. But I would want to see a very different attitude from her if I were you. She needs to understand the full consequences of her actions, the pain it is causing you and will continue to cause you. She can't call it something it's not. She needs to admit it to you AND herself before anything like reconciliation can make an appearance. I wish you the best. Edited June 18, 2015 by Southern Sun 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Satu Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Do be aware OP, that when her back is against the wall and everything is being disclosed, it is very likely that she will blame YOU. "I needed xyz, and you weren't giving that to me," is usually how the blame - shifting begins. Do not buy into that. She did what she did because she wanted to. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 It may not seem like it, but her fessing up so quick and easy is a good sign. Althrough, she is likely not being honest. Others have suggested it but im guessing she had a four day sex-a-ton. Be easy on yourself in digging for details. Sometimes things cant be unheard. I think its important for you now to have a few days to yourself, away from her. Its best to dort through you mind and emotions without her in you ear. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sunk Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Do be aware OP, that when her back is against the wall and everything is being disclosed, it is very likely that she will blame YOU. "I needed xyz, and you weren't giving that to me," is usually how the blame - shifting begins. Do not buy into that. She did what she did because she wanted to. Good call. She has blamed me since D-day. Not meeting her emotional and sexual needs. HOWEVER. Just yesterday we had a huge breakthrough. I quoted her this that I found on a website: You may be responsible for 50% of the problems in your marriage, but you are responsible for 0% of the affair! Your wandering spouse owns 50% of the marriage problems and 100% of the fault for the affair. Your spouse had many other choices about how to deal with marital problems; up to and including the "I want a divorce" speech. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT! She immediately said that this quote was obviously taken from a site dedicated to angry betrayed spouses. But by this morning she had done a 180 on this issue, and agreed that the word CHOICE had finally made her realize that I was not at fault. After my wife's revelation, I'm now thinking that a foundation for reconciliation has appeared, and that is why I'm appealing to you all. And again, THANKS TO YOU ALL for the advice. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
lgspot Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Sunk, It's still some other guy's d**k poking her in the face. Does it really matter how many times or what she calls it. To quote my ex, "Is just sex. It didn't mean anything!" That philosophy is why she's an ex. Been my experience that it's ALWAYS more than they admit. I've got 4 questions: 1. Do you love her? 2. Can you forgive her? 3. Can you get passed it and can she? 4. Are you better off with her or without her? Any path you choose, you do have a choice and I support you in that choice. Link to post Share on other sites
No Limit Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 They didn't use condoms. They never do. She's still lying to you. Sorry, but a angry WS who quite obviously has no remorse like your wife - why do you want to reconcile with her?? Link to post Share on other sites
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