Maleficent Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 As long as there is Mexican food on this table, it doesn't matter what she brings In my opinion, the only thing a woman needs to bring to the table is a warm body, a loving heart, and a desire to be a part of a two person team against the world. Perhaps I'm abnormal. What else SHOULD I be expecting? Pretty much the same is expected from men as far as I am concerned. Cute picture btw 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Pretty much the same is expected from men as far as I am concerned. Cute picture btw Thanks, trust me when I say the 3D version is cuter. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It doesn't. But some of us don't agree and we have a right to express our opinion. Free country and all. Sure, express your opinion. Just realize that men aren't obligated to change simply because you disagree with them. Many men feel that most women don't bring enough to the table to make it worthwhile. I tend to think that the women who do wouldn't be offended by it because they are confident and secure with themselves knowing that they do. The indignation here is very interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
ManyDissapoint Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 As long as there is Mexican food on this table, it doesn't matter what she brings In my opinion, the only thing a woman needs to bring to the table is a warm body, a loving heart, and a desire to be a part of a two person team against the world. Perhaps I'm abnormal. What else SHOULD I be expecting? This is exactly my perspective. And I think a lot of other men. The "Women not bringing enough to the table" quote is a reaction to the laundry list of qualities a man must have for a woman to be interested and stay interested, compared to a man's more simple needs as you outlined above. Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Even men who are not bitter, men who get dates, get laid, it still seems the man is putting in far more work, effort into attracting and keeping a mate than the woman is. If the guy is feeling like it's difficult work and the woman should be doing more of the attracting and keeping the mate - well nobody says he has to do that do they??!? I don't understand this complaint I just don't. And sheesh, women spend ALOT more time and money trying to be attractive than men do in the big picture! Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This is exactly my perspective. And I think a lot of other men. The "Women not bringing enough to the table" quote is a reaction to the laundry list of qualities a man must have for a woman to be interested and stay interested, compared to a man's more simple needs as you outlined above. Excellent post. Women are notorious for having extensive lists of what they expect a man to bring into a relationship. Men are asking themselves if women are bringing an equal number of positive traits and behaviors. If the woman does, then great! If not, then she won't be viewed as an acceptable partner. This is where I turn my focus on to my fellow men, though. We need just as high of standards as women do. Men who expect little, receive little. Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) This is exactly my perspective. And I think a lot of other men. The "Women not bringing enough to the table" quote is a reaction to the laundry list of qualities a man must have for a woman to be interested and stay interested, compared to a man's more simple needs as you outlined above. Don't assume that because you've been treated well, that is generally true or true for everyone. Likewise, I won't try to tell you about your life. As I grew wiser and began to look around, I saw a lot of inequity out there in relationships that are alleged to make men happy. As one young lady commented recently: Don't do something for your man just because it will make him happy! Apparently that would be degrading - it doesn't empower the woman. Edited June 19, 2015 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 There are plenty of women who say relationships with men just aren't worth it. I know one. She's very kind to me, doesn't disrespect me in any way. She just believes men aren't worth it to be in a relationship. I don't get offended by it. Why do you get offended when some men say the same thing? How does it personally effect you? Probably because it is a dead end conversation here on a relationship forum, I mean if a guy or girl feels that way they don't have to be in relationships just like your friend, it's so simple!! but making sweeping generalizations about women or men and then arguing your point seems like a big waste of time on here, I mean we all know what you think once it's on the screen what is there to talk about??? Like, I bring stuff "to the table," what am I supposed to do, defend my self and my mom and sister and friends who do as well?? :confused: If a guy wanted to talk about his relationship and how he felt he was putting so much more in than she was that would be something to talk about but just how "women don't" do whatever, or men, it just seems dumb. Big generalizations based on gender don't help with actual real life relationship problems!! 6 Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Men are asking themselves if women are bringing an equal number of positive traits and behaviors. If the woman does, then great! If not, then she won't be viewed as an acceptable partner. Well, sure. And yet...there's quite clearly a giant gulf between "that woman didn't bring as much to the table as I do" and "women don't bring enough to the table," period. But then, you knew that. And this isn't about being "PC" or having to say "some women" or whatever people like to complain about because they're too lazy to think and write clearly about their feelings and want to just be angry at everyone. It's about pot-stirring. "Women don't bring enough to the table" is only intended to stir the pot and get people indignant in the first place. In a place like LS, people are going to respond because they are already vulnerable and everyone here has been hurt and felt taken advantage of and wants to defend him-/herself. But those who say it feel justified in doing so, not because it's a general truth but because they're hurting and don't care who they hurt in response, as long as they can feel powerful for a cybersecond. And then the cycle begins. Bravo, I guess? Edited June 19, 2015 by serial muse 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Why are there so many threads that entail male pity parties now? It is getting quite tiresome. All I can think is maybe y'all need to widen your networks more. I am glad I don't see people in wide sweeping generalizations and have the sophistication to distinguish individualistic nuances. Damn I'm sophisticated! 5 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Probably because it is a dead end conversation here on a relationship forum, I mean if a guy or girl feels that way they don't have to be in relationships just like your friend, it's so simple!! but making sweeping generalizations about women or men and then arguing your point seems like a big waste of time on here, I mean we all know what you think once it's on the screen what is there to talk about??? Like, I bring stuff "to the table," what am I supposed to do, defend my self and my mom and sister and friends who do as well?? :confused: If a guy wanted to talk about his relationship and how he felt he was putting so much more in than she was that would be something to talk about but just how "women don't" do whatever, or men, it just seems dumb. Big generalizations based on gender don't help with actual real life relationship problems!! For the record, I agree with you. I don't subscribe to the tenet of MRA that says all Women are bad. The part I do subscribe to is I am my own master and I will live my life as I see fit. These men and women are free to do the same. You don't have to defend yourself because it's not your problem. I used to get so angry at feminists who say all men are potential rapists. I felt like I had to defend my good name. But after I realized that it wasn't my job to convince them otherwise. If they choose to live in perpetual fear, let them. It's their choice. Nothing I can do could change it. And really, why do you care what anybody else besides your fiancee thinks? That's what's important. Not me or any other man. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tayla Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 If the guy is feeling like it's difficult work and the woman should be doing more of the attracting and keeping the mate - well nobody says he has to do that do they??!? I don't understand this complaint I just don't. And sheesh, women spend ALOT more time and money trying to be attractive than men do in the big picture! You made some valid concerns, which when I think about, its a shame that women do glam up and over spend on trying to be this society standard of beauty or attractiveness. Superficial, boring. Some of the ladies whom I have found attractive are so for their demeanor and graciousness. Which I have yet to see marketed. Being fit , trim and maintaining yourself doesn't necessarily make you any less attractive. Some guys like the wholesome gal. At the end of the day, if you are doing it to woo the man then you are buying into the marketing spiel. I tend to agree though that relations for the most part carry a "balance" .And without it, it would flop. Most healthy relations do have a level of give and take. They compliment each other. Where one may not be good with cooking the other is good with house repairs . Maybe they assist each other? . They are each others support. Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Well, sure. And yet...there's quite clearly a giant gulf between "that woman didn't bring as much to the table as I do" and "women don't bring enough to the table," period. But then, you knew that. And this isn't about being "PC" or having to say "some women" or whatever people like to complain about because they're too lazy to think and write clearly about their feelings and want to just be angry at everyone. It's about pot-stirring. "Women don't bring enough to the table" is only intended to stir the pot and get people indignant in the first place. In a place like LS, people are going to respond because they are already vulnerable and everyone here has been hurt and felt taken advantage of and wants to defend him-/herself. But those who say it feel justified in doing so, not because it's a general truth but because they're hurting and don't care who they hurt in response, as long as they can feel powerful for a cybersecond. And then the cycle begins. Bravo, I guess? I certainly don't believe that all women don't bring enough to the table. I wouldn't be in a relationship if I did. What I'm saying is that it's their right to think that, regardless of what you and I may think about it. There are both males and females who believe that about the opposite sex. Let them. It doesn't hurt anybody. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 There are plenty of women who say relationships with men just aren't worth it. I know one. She's very kind to me, doesn't disrespect me in any way. She just believes men aren't worth it to be in a relationship. I don't get offended by it. Why do you get offended when some men say the same thing? How does it personally effect you? Generalizations are a pet peeve of mine, mainly because they are so lazy. Like this: Women are notorious I just don't talk this way. I have dated and been exposed to some real doozies of losers. But in general I believe that the majority of men are good sincere people who want to bring a lot to a relationship. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 As one young lady commented recently: Don't do something for your man just because it will make him happy! Apparently that would be degrading - it doesn't empower the woman. I do not know who said this, but she obviously has no clue what love, commitment, or relationships are all about. If "because it makes him happy" isn't a good reason, I don't know what is. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Sure, express your opinion. Just realize that men aren't obligated to change simply because you disagree with them. Many men feel that most women don't bring enough to the table to make it worthwhile. I tend to think that the women who do wouldn't be offended by it because they are confident and secure with themselves knowing that they do. The indignation here is very interesting. I'm not sure where you see indignation in this thread... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I do not know who said this, but she obviously has no clue what love, commitment, or relationships are all about. If "because it makes him happy" isn't a good reason, I don't know what is. That's because you're healthy.Going back your post about generalizations, I was not trying to imply that all women do that. But a significant number do, enough to make it necessary to contend with as a man seeking a relationship. And speaking of generalizations: This is what bitter men who either cannot get a date or who let a bad experience or two ruin them say in order to blame all women for their ineptness. Simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 IMO, neither men nor women bring anything of value to the table - yet they are coupling up all over the place cuz "water seeks its own level". Like I was watching Jerry Springer recently and this guy was such a mess that while preggo he got jailed for nonsense. Then, she cheated on him cuz she's home with the baby and boooored and upset that he works all the time (so she can raise their child instead of dumping it off in daycare) and he doesn't complement her since she had the baby (well, you gained so much weight and look terrible). And, she says the most exciting thing she does is going to check the mailbox. So, why doesn't she go and jog with the kid? Make some fitness goals? Go volunteer and take the kid? Maybe go and meet up with other mothers and swap watching kids so she can greet her hubby in some sexy clothing while another mother takes turns watching her kid? Why don't she set up a part-time thing to do from home? See, SHE had/has the power to make the RL better, but puts it all on him. And, that's how most women think. They have nothing to bring to the table. They can't and/or don't wanna cook, stay fit, sex their man, maintain the home, and/or raise their kids. And, a lot only see value in them being a "worker bee". Then, they don't expect men to rise to the occasion. They want to shack-up, marry, and/or have babies and dude hasn't finished school and/or got himself established in a career. So, we have a "partnership", "roommates" - not husband/wife and/or lovers. And, a lot of men also have nothing to offer. They "expect" a woman to pay half/some of the bills, dump off a kid in daycare. These guys also do not wanna stay fit, wanna smoke weed, play video games and be perpetual boys who live off of Red Bull and Taco Bell. They wouldn't know and/or appreciate a decent woman and don't care to put any effort into treating a woman right. So, women did this to themselves...they have no standards for themselves, will settle for "boys" instead of "men" and have nothing to bring to the table except for maybe some of their paycheck. They are NOT "wives" and/or "mothers" and/or "lovers"...they are "roommates" and "partners". So yes, women have nothing to offer to make a real RL now a days...IMO, and same goes for men...loser + loser = reproduction of more losers. Now, then we have the women who on top of being a roommate/partner - don't see where what they earn is "ours" - instead it is "theirs". They come on dates and expect men to splurge on them and the day the guy marries him, he won't get sex, respect, and/or treated like a man. In other words, the women want men to be "traditional" and court, spend money on them and work to pay the bills - but she has better things to do rather than sex, cook, and/or clean for him and she sure ain't raising any kids - that's what daycare and the public school system is for. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 For the record, I am not angry or indignant, nor do I really care to change any man's mind. It is just intriguing to me for some reason. Many of the men I hear who make comments that they apply to "women", "all women", or "most women" do not like it when similar type statements are made about men, OR they have a ready reason as to why whatever is said about men is actually the fault of women. It intrigues me because they then express complete shock that women are not interested in them. It just strikes me as almost...funny? that they cannot make the connection between their inability to garner women's attention and attraction and their near-constant disdain for the gender.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This is exactly my perspective. And I think a lot of other men. The "Women not bringing enough to the table" quote is a reaction to the laundry list of qualities a man must have for a woman to be interested and stay interested, compared to a man's more simple needs as you outlined above. Most women do not have that laundry list of qualities. That so called 'list' was created by some people who have trouble with dating and think it's easier to blame the high standards of the opposite sex rather than accepting the other person simply isn't interested. And I say people ebcause both men and women do it. Women will blame the list of physical 'assets' rather than the 'list of qualities' but in the end, both groups tend to have trouble with dating and it's not hard to see why. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pompom Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 If cleaning up after, cooking for, and having sex with you, ain't enough, go get a mailorder bride with a sick parent to support. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 There are a few core thing I really need in a partner. There are some things that would be nice, but that list is short too (and not necessary). I want honesty, empathy, decisiveness and drive, kindness, a sex drive. Humor is kind of important to me. It would be nice if he was as tall as me or taller, but that isn't mandatory. It would be great if he liked music and animals. Of course, if he was a trained massage therapist and a gourmet chef I wouldn't complain lol. I'm an all in woman. I don't love halfway, so I feel perfectly fine having some expectations. I am also emotionally intelligent, I have developed social skills, and if someone doesn't click with me or isn't interested, my entire world doesn't cave in because...that's life. Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 For the record, I am not angry or indignant, nor do I really care to change any man's mind. It is just intriguing to me for some reason. Many of the men I hear who make comments that they apply to "women", "all women", or "most women" do not like it when similar type statements are made about men, OR they have a ready reason as to why whatever is said about men is actually the fault of women. It intrigues me because they then express complete shock that women are not interested in them. It just strikes me as almost...funny? that they cannot make the connection between their inability to garner women's attention and attraction and their near-constant disdain for the gender.... Just as we find it equally funny that some women are shocked that men actually expect women to contribute towards the relationship. That we dare to have standards of conduct. Men aren't owed a woman. That's been established. Likewise, women aren't owed a man. They need to do more than just show up. Some women haven't gotten that yet. You have. So this doesn't apply to you. But modern media has made relationships all about the woman. This is what men are inundated with whenever they watch tv or a movie and read a book. It's in our collective societal psyche. The idea that women must equally contribute is not a bad thing, and men as a whole are beginning to reject society's media. I have no disdain for women. I reject society's message that I am less important than my SO. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I guess I am just lucky. I live in a little unicorn pocket of the world. I do not know a bunch horrible men who troll for 18 year olds and do tricks to get in women's pants. And I do not know any women who actually think they shouldn't have to work in a relationship. Yeah, some of the people around here have bad grammar, but relationship skill-wise, it must be a pretty highly developed area because I just don't see these hordes of dysfunctional people everyone else must be surrounded with..... Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Likewise, women aren't owed a man. They need to do more than just show up. Some women haven't gotten that yet. Yeahhhh have to agree with you there though... Link to post Share on other sites
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