Taramere Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Duly noted. So what should I do then, just be myself, and hope it all works out? Well, London's a massive place with all kinds of people living there. I mean of course there are some who have a bad attitude, but when I lived there I met a lot of cool people. And yes, it was about just being myself. That would get me looked down on by the sort of people you're talking about (ie for not wearing designer clothes or drinking in expensive cocktail bars), but I wasn't interested in spending time in their company anyway. Where are you tending to encounter the women you go on dates with? Does it tend to happen at after work drinking sessions? Are you meeting them in expensive bars? Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 A typical first drink in London costs about £8. A cocktail is around £15. So for an average of two three drinks each you're looking at around £60-70, which is what, approx $90? That's the norm for this place. Thats an average night for a set of drinks and a pretty average date at that. It's not extravagant in the slightest. But you have seemed to missed my point again being unable to emphasise with the difficulties men face. It's another 'this is what you've done wrong' response. Are really unable to emphasise with what I am saying, is it really that baffling? The male commentator above picked up on it immediately. You are wrong. You are spending money on a woman expecting something in return. Stop having expectations or let them pay their own drinks. There are plenty of women who will be fine with that - as we've seen in this very thread. I did not defend the women in your scenario either. They're not here asking for advice. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Affection. The ability to surprise and spoil their man when it's totally unexpected. All the things that I have done to make a girl feel loved and special other than providing the other body part needed for sex. I think the above are reasonable expectations in any relationship. What I am hearing from some of the men is that they spend a lot of time and energy trying to get to this point, and many of the women they are "working with," for lack of a better word, seem to bolt before they ever get to this point. You know, I never really gave this much thought back in the dark ages when I was dating (I'm old). Except for the occasional blind date fixup or "my boyfriends has a friend and I need a date for him too), I never actually accepted a date with someone I wasn't already interested in somewhat. Of course, back in the dark ages we had no online dating or texts, so I had typically already spent time with the guy in a group and/or talked on the phone a bit. I can imagine now, when you text/message a complete stranger a few times and then go out for drinks or dinner with no real idea of where either of you are at interest-wise...it can get very frustrating. I wonder if there is a way to kind of decide, "We're going dutch until we move to the next level." I have no idea if this would work. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Elaine and the rest of the feminist brigade! Yet another red flags. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Phoe Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 A typical first drink in London costs about £8. A cocktail is around £15. So for an average of two three drinks each you're looking at around £60-70, which is what, approx $90? That's the norm for this place. Thats an average night for a set of drinks and a pretty average date at that. It's not extravagant in the slightest. But you have seemed to missed my point again being unable to emphasise with the difficulties men face. It's another 'this is what you've done wrong' response. Are really unable to emphasise with what I am saying, is it really that baffling? The male commentator above picked up on it immediately. Since that's really expensive for one outing, change it up! FWIW, I've never gone on a date (first date or not) where drinks were bought or consumed. Why is that the go to? But first dates that I have been on? Hiking, browsing a bookstore, watching the stars... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I think the above are reasonable expectations in any relationship. What I am hearing from some of the men is that they spend a lot of time and energy trying to get to this point, and many of the women they are "working with," for lack of a better word, seem to bolt before they ever get to this point. Exactly! That is why I think the idea one person paying the first few dates a lot of money is ridiculous. It creates expectations, therefore frustration. Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Since that's really expensive for one outing, change it up! FWIW, I've never gone on a date (first date or not) where drinks were bought or consumed. Why is that the go to? But first dates that I have been on? Hiking, browsing a bookstore, watching the stars... Hmmmyeah to be honest I wouldn't be enclined to go hiking/watching the stars on a first date with a stranger... call me nuts lol Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I can imagine now, when you text/message a complete stranger a few times and then go out for drinks or dinner with no real idea of where either of you are at interest-wise...it can get very frustrating. I wonder if there is a way to kind of decide, "We're going dutch until we move to the next level." I have no idea if this would work. I agree, so I think if this is a guy who feels the need to pay, then those first meet ups should be free (like walking in a park) or very cheap dates (like a coffee shop). No need for dinner or drink dates with a virtual stranger. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Hmmmyeah to be honest I wouldn't be enclined to go hiking/watching the stars on a first date with a stranger... call me nuts lol I wouldn't hike, or be somewhere alone either. I would meet up at a well attended park though if the weather was nice. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Phoe Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Hmmmyeah to be honest I wouldn't be enclined to go hiking/watching the stars on a first date with a stranger... call me nuts lol True, a complete stranger is not the ideal person to do those things with. Hiking was with a man I'd been talking to for several months, and watching the stars was a man I'd been friends with for years, so I felt more trusting. I suppose I failed to remember that many folks who date are total strangers. Which might be why the concept of OLD was always so very intimidating to me. My experiences are almost exclusively with men that I'd either been talking with for a while, or had been friends with for a very long time. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Duly noted. So what should I do then, just be myself, and hope it all works out? Connect with people. Is dating strangers your only option? Do you not meet people naturally through life? You meet a woman, you feel that mutual interest, you ask on a date because interest is already there, and you enjoy each other. The old fashioned way Link to post Share on other sites
MoreAmore Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Hmmmyeah to be honest I wouldn't be enclined to go hiking/watching the stars on a first date with a stranger... call me nuts lol I've hiked with a stranger with enough conversation shared in advance and a popular trail. I've never been lauded for my common sense, however. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
StanMusial Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'd like to see some opinions on what many of the men would like the women they date to bring to the table. It surely varies from man to man, and while "having a vagina" is obviously a consideration, I imagine the vast majority of men DO have other things they desire from a girlfriend or wife. I'd like to hear a variety of answers on this Have your own life and interests and be a productive person. My fiance is a business owner and has hobbies and interests and goals and plans. She stands in sharp contrast to girls I have known that basically wanted to be wined and dined and drifted through life looking for their next source of entertainment. She's not one of these girls that dates 100's of guys off the internet and whines about her dating woes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 So what I am hearing is that men would like women to bring these kinds of things: Appreciation Openness A life of their own (aka not a clingy dependent needy person) The ability to give Straightforwardness Affection Intellectual/interest stimulation Some enthusiasm Emotional stability Honesty/consistency That seems like a very reasonable list. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It's easier to find those things when you choose women who like you for you, and not for the material things you can provide. I'm still trying to understand why a man would spend money on a woman when he doesn't enjoy her company Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 So what I am hearing is that men would like women to bring these kinds of things: Appreciation Openness A life of their own (aka not a clingy dependent needy person) The ability to give Straightforwardness Affection Intellectual/interest stimulation Some enthusiasm Emotional stability Honesty/consistency That seems like a very reasonable list. It is reasonable. Now, how do we showcase all this in a three hour first date? A lot of these show after dating someone for a while. Not in one or two dates... 4 Link to post Share on other sites
StanMusial Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It's easier to find those things when you choose women who like you for you, and not for the material things you can provide. I'm still trying to understand why a man would spend money on a woman when he doesn't enjoy her company Maybe he is meeting them off the internet and doesn't know if he enjoys their company or not. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It is reasonable. Now, how do we showcase all this in a three hour first date? A lot of these show after dating someone for a while. Not in one or two dates... We can't. That is why I think this instant thing we all want is not compatible with reality. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Maybe he is meeting them off the internet and doesn't know if he enjoys their company or not. So how can he know if they are as entitled as he thinks they are? I mean unless they are incredibly bratty during the date...there is no way of knowing what a person (because it applies to men too) can bring to the relationship table. Right? Link to post Share on other sites
StanMusial Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It is reasonable. Now, how do we showcase all this in a three hour first date? A lot of these show after dating someone for a while. Not in one or two dates... Actually the lady who introduced me to my fiance gave me some good clues to work with. Link to post Share on other sites
StanMusial Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 So how can he know if they are as entitled as he thinks they are? I mean unless they are incredibly bratty during the date...there is no way of knowing what a person (because it applies to men too) can bring to the relationship table. Right?. He will have to address it, I don't know. I'm just going on what he wrote already. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jay1983 Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 It is reasonable. Now, how do we showcase all this in a three hour first date? A lot of these show after dating someone for a while. Not in one or two dates... This what I was thanking too. The question popped into my head when xxoo asked why would a man be interested in a preschool teacher when she has little to offer? I knew what the expression meant, I just wasn't sure exactly what specifically were they talking about. I make the joke about the pizza and beer, cause what else do you want her to bring. You want her to do magic tricks? Lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 This what I was thanking too. The question popped into my head when xxoo asked why would a man be interested in a preschool teacher when she has little to offer? I knew what the expression meant, I just wasn't sure exactly what specifically were they talking about. I make the joke about the pizza and beer, cause what else do you want her to bring. You want her to do magic tricks? Lol To clarify, I never believed that a preschool teacher = little to offer. The question was intended to dig for those other invaluable and intangible qualities. Link to post Share on other sites
hudson701 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Hmmmyeah to be honest I wouldn't be enclined to go hiking/watching the stars on a first date with a stranger... call me nuts lol Ok when the woman is twidling her thumbs looking the other way when the drinks/bill comes, what should I do? "Get your wallet out sweatheart it's time to split the bill" and end up looking cheap. It happens all the time. I've never met a woman who's had the deceny to say 'I'll get the next round' it just does not happen where I live. Many men will testify this. To go in expecting Dutch (which i'd absolutely love) is to look cheap, or give the impression that you are cheap. Link to post Share on other sites
hudson701 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Connect with people. Is dating strangers your only option? Do you not meet people naturally through life? You meet a woman, you feel that mutual interest, you ask on a date because interest is already there, and you enjoy each other. The old fashioned way Sure this is possible in a small town where everyone knows each other or regular meets are possible. It's almost impossible in London and I would never date a person from work for obvious reasons. But if you know how to build a regular rapore with someone when living in a big, lonely city then I'm all ears. EVERYONE is disconnected in London, it's the very nature of the place. OLD is huge here and the main way people meet each other, which I hate. It's a fantastic city but only if you have the right people to enjoy it with. Otherwise it is terribly lonely. Seriously I'd love to know- how do I make new friends/meet women in a city as cold as this? It's something that has been troubling me for years and it's not like being part of a warm, small community which I grew up in. I don't like the idea of just going out on my own and introducing myself to women. It's sad and the women think you're 'weird' for doing it. I've experienced it before. Link to post Share on other sites
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