BlueIris Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I don't care what people think about me individually. I do care about what the aggregate thinks, which therefore become societal norms and expectations that negatively impact me as said individual. And not just me, but other men as well. The perceptions of the aggregate affect those outside of the aggregate. Be careful about what you’re concluding the aggregate thinks or what the societal norms are. I think you’re wrong about some of them. Sometimes the loudest, the angriest, the most aggressive or just the ones editing the story APPEAR to be reflecting the opinions of the majority when they’re not. Kind of funny story- A man I was involved with used to say I wasn't normal, didn't follow norms, societal standards-- the "everybody knows" argument. One day I finally asked him how I could learn those norms and "everybody knows" standards- where do I find them?! He said (not kidding), "Watch South Park and Curb Your Enthusiasm." Yeah! That was the last day I ever bought the "everybody knows" and "that's normal" and "that's what society says" argument. Man was a fruit loop- by my standards and norms. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 See, now this is what I love about forums like this. You get totally different people who had totally different experiences. For me, if a date bought me gifts before we ever had our first date, that would really turn me off and raise some red flags immediately. Yet some women, like you, like that kind of stuff. Different strokes for different folks and all that. It definitely depends on the context. We'd known each other for months before the first gift, or date, and he was well acquainted with my sense of humor. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Be careful about what you’re concluding the aggregate thinks or what the societal norms are. I think you’re wrong about some of them. Sometimes the loudest, the angriest, the most aggressive or just the ones editing the story APPEAR to be reflecting the opinions of the majority when they’re not. Kind of funny story- A man I was involved with used to say I wasn't normal, didn't follow norms, societal standards-- the "everybody knows" argument. One day I finally asked him how I could learn those norms and "everybody knows" standards- where do I find them?! He said (not kidding), "Watch South Park and Curb Your Enthusiasm." Yeah! That was the last day I ever bought the "everybody knows" and "that's normal" and "that's what society says" argument. Man was a fruit loop- by my standards and norms. This is true. Some of the people who yell "all men think this" or "all women do this" have the least clue about any of it. In fact, if I was Clarence or TFG or Gorilla or some of these men, I'd cringe at a few of the guys who think they speak for all men. And when I said well-adjusted, I mean they have they ability to see a perspective other than their own and they do not start from a place of hate with regard to the opposite gender. I can't take anyone seriously who begins their assessment from a place of obvious disdain. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It's hard to put my finger on, but there are a remarkably select few women that it's like having a limb removed if you don't have them anymore. Like it just ****s up your whole equilibrium, and while you can make do you're just not complete without them. They bring a whole new dimension to you that you never really knew existed before. That's what they can bring, and it sucks sweaty ahole when you don't have it anymore. Or if you're one of the few unlucky enough never to experience it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Be careful about what you’re concluding the aggregate thinks or what the societal norms are. I think you’re wrong about some of them. Sometimes the loudest, the angriest, the most aggressive or just the ones editing the story APPEAR to be reflecting the opinions of the majority when they’re not. Kind of funny story- A man I was involved with used to say I wasn't normal, didn't follow norms, societal standards-- the "everybody knows" argument. One day I finally asked him how I could learn those norms and "everybody knows" standards- where do I find them?! He said (not kidding), "Watch South Park and Curb Your Enthusiasm." Yeah! That was the last day I ever bought the "everybody knows" and "that's normal" and "that's what society says" argument. Man was a fruit loop- by my standards and norms. One of the definitions of aggregate is to "form or group into a class or cluster". I would never say all women as an aggregate believe as such. But when one groups all of the wine who do, that becomes an aggregate. That aggregate is a subset of all women, but it's still an aggregate nonetheless. It is the aggregate of that subset that I'm interested in. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It's hard to put my finger on, but there are a remarkably select few women that it's like having a limb removed if you don't have them anymore. Like it just ****s up your whole equilibrium, and while you can make do you're just not complete without them. They bring a whole new dimension to you that you never really knew existed before. . The individuals who, when they leave the room, feel like they take all the oxygen with them? Oh, yes, women can feel this, too. Just their presence is pleasure. Rare, but the stuff that makes you feel alive. Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I like a girl who is young at heart, that hasn't let the world crush her inner little kid, because my inner little kid needs some one to get in trouble with sometimes. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 One of the definitions of aggregate is to "form or group into a class or cluster". I would never say all women as an aggregate believe as such. But when one groups all of the wine who do, that becomes an aggregate. That aggregate is a subset of all women, but it's still an aggregate nonetheless. It is the aggregate of that subset that I'm interested in. Ah. Not THE aggregate or THE societal norm but the thinking and attitudes of one subset. (That would be the subset I’m NOT interested in! There are some subsets of men I definitely avoid. Not good matches.) Yeah, avoid that group and don’t let them get under your skin. If paying is an important issue for you, bring it up early on and talk about how you each feel about it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
candie13 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 It definitely depends on the context. We'd known each other for months before the first gift, or date, and he was well acquainted with my sense of humor. My ex of 7 years: I was a foreign student in Paris and for the first date, he took me to the movies - surprise surprise, in French version. So next time he saw me he brought a small plush Bambi for the trouble... gosh it sounds horribly corny, we were 23 ! And took me to a nice little restaurant where I've had wild sole with rosemary. White wine. He paid for everything. That happened exactly 12 years ago. It's all in how one choses whom to date. Chemistry. Nowadays, there's no social pressure to pay, make gifts or bring flowers. But when that vibe's there... you'd have to be a fool to be cheap. as CS Lewis was saying: when you fall inlove deeply, you're going to get badly hurt. It's still worth it 3 Link to post Share on other sites
candie13 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 My last relationship brought me a ton of drama & hassle & was doomed to failure from the start. I pretty much knew from the start that we were incompatible, but that didn't stop me from falling in love with her. I wasn't looking for a relationship at the time, but I wasn't gonna lie to her or myself when I fell in love with her, just because my rational side saw a bunch of red & even black flags. We weren't dating & once we talked about how we felt for each other, we (or at least me) did our best to make it work. I can guess pretty accurately what she was looking for. I know I was just following my heart. Clarence, I am sorry to hear you got badly hurt. As an old(er) woman, I just want to remind you how precious this capacity to fall inlove is and how special that is, nowadays. It sucks that she treated you poorly... her loss! Don't regret it . The ability to feel emotion and show affection are incredibly rare, in a man. You will meet a girl who'll feel truly blessed to have your attention, so please, don't take it out on the next girl ! 4 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 My ex of 7 years: I was a foreign student in Paris and for the first date, he took me to the movies - surprise surprise, in French version. So next time he saw me he brought a small plush Bambi for the trouble... gosh it sounds horribly corny, we were 23 ! And took me to a nice little restaurant where I've had wild sole with rosemary. White wine. He paid for everything. That happened exactly 12 years ago. It's all in how one choses whom to date. Chemistry. Nowadays, there's no social pressure to pay, make gifts or bring flowers. But when that vibe's there... you'd have to be a fool to be cheap. as CS Lewis was saying: when you fall inlove deeply, you're going to get badly hurt. It's still worth it Thats a great story! H was 20 (me younger), and I had plans with a different group of friends for NYE. He bought me a plush snake (ridiculously phallic) to wear as a stole. It was very silly. I wore it. And I still have it! We've been together every NYE since 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author jay1983 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 There are other ways. Go on low-cost or no-cost dates and put the emphasis on talking and laughing together. Or, talk about it ahead of a date, by saying nicely, "I usually split costs on dates, so I like to talk about what you'd feel comfortable with Friday night. How does dinner at <expensive restaurant> sound to you or would you prefer having hots dogs and those free movies in the park?" That'll suss 'em out. Men, I've done the coffee thing, I didn't like it, it felt like a job interview. I like doing drinks, when the alcohol takes effect, that's when you get relaxed, open up, and start joking around like you normally do. I've noticed the same affect on the girls I was with. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author jay1983 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 See, if I were a man wanting to avoid the kind of woman who thinks a man should pay on the first date, I would think this is a perfect test. Kind of like when I bring up feminism during the first date - it allows me to weed out the ones with misogynist tendencies. I really don't think you should do that. I'd be one of those guys to give you a negative opinion, which I got from this site, I've never actually met a feminist in my life. Or maybe I'm a misogynist, like I've been called on here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
compulsivedancer Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I really don't think you should do that. I'd be one of those guys to give you a negative opinion, which I got from this site, I've never actually met a feminist in my life. Or maybe I'm a misogynist, like I've been called on here. Funny. I'll bet most of the women you've met IRL are feminists. And many of the men. People on this site seem to have no idea what that means. Believe that women should have the opportunity to vote, to go to college, to work outside the home in a career of her choice? Yes? Hate to break it to you - you're a feminist! (Even if you're a guy!) 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I really don't think you should do that. I'd be one of those guys to give you a negative opinion, which I got from this site, I've never actually met a feminist in my life. Or maybe I'm a misogynist, like I've been called on here. I don't care, really. If the guy gives me a negative opinion it'll be a yellow flag. I've wasted enough time with men who are not concerned with women's issues or have anti-woman ideas. Why would you give a negative opinion if it doesn't actually reflect your opinion anyways?? It's not like I flat out ask "sooooooooo how do you feel about feminism?" I tend to bring up a recent event related to women's issues as part if the conversation. When doing OLD the easiest is to compliment the guy on the quality of his messages as opposed to dick pics and trashy invites. Believe t or not, one guy's response to that was to send me a dick pic saying 'you asked for it xox' 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I really don't think you should do that. I'd be one of those guys to give you a negative opinion, which I got from this site, I've never actually met a feminist in my life. Or maybe I'm a misogynist, like I've been called on here. Also you don't strike me as mysoginist at all. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I am generally that guy who insists on paying if a woman offers. Mostly because I can tell her offer is not all that sincere to begin with, but that is for another thread. Oh, FFS, we just can't win, can we? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Oh, FFS, we just can't win, can we? Some women make genuine offers and some do not. I'm pretty bad at telling the difference. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Incorrect. I buy things for my GF all the time. The difference is she doesn't expect it. I do it because I choose to, not because "it's a man's job to pay". Do you understand the difference? I'm not saying you individually have that expectation, but a significant number of women do. Enough of a number that we have to contend with. No one is entitled to my money. With the unfortunate exceptions of the IRS and the Oregon Dept of Revenue. How did you get off on your thing about how what's not a "man's job" and how nobody is ENTITLED to your money??? What does that have to do with this thread anyway? If some lady likes to be taken out to dinner or get gifts or whatever and her man enjoys doing that, they are going to be happy together! And if you ended up with that woman both of you would be in hell! I don't even know why this has anything to do with what is offered except for what you definitely do NOT offer!! Which is fine! But I love and appreciate it when my guy takes me out on a date and is treating me to all of it and he likes to do that!! Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Some women make genuine offers and some do not. I'm pretty bad at telling the difference. Not the point. Men complain we don't even offer to pay our part, but when we do, we get a "probably not sincere anyways" Exactly what are we supposed to do here?? Lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Some women make genuine offers and some do not. I'm pretty bad at telling the difference. If you want her to pay for it just accept her offer. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Not the point. Men complain we don't even offer to pay our part, but when we do, we get a "probably not sincere anyways" Exactly what are we supposed to do here??Keep doing as you do. I would like to point out that your approach is different and (in my opinion) better. By offering to cover the next date, you're saying: "I'm not testing you, there will be a next date, and it's on me." To enigma's point, some women on this forum have said that they will offer to pay their half and if the guy accepts, there will not be a second date. If you have any suggestions on how to detect genuine offers vs. tests, I'd love to hear them. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author jay1983 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 We had a couple of threads last year from girls complaining about how turned off they were when their date excepted their offer to pay half. On one of em, almost all the women on here let her have it, it was pretty sweet. Lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Keep doing as you do. I would like to point out that your approach is different and (in my opinion) better. By offering to cover the next date, you're saying: "I'm not testing you, there will be a next date, and it's on me." To enigma's point, some women on this forum have said that they will offer to pay their half and if the guy accepts, there will not be a second date. If you have any suggestions on how to detect genuine offers vs. tests, I'd love to hear them. I will. Sorry, can't help you there. All I can do is offer to slap those women uoside the head. They are really ruining it for the rest of us lol I 2 Link to post Share on other sites
MoreAmore Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I really don't think you should do that. I'd be one of those guys to give you a negative opinion, which I got from this site, I've never actually met a feminist in my life. e. I'm rather fond of equal rights for anyone presenting anywhere on the gender spectrum. I am a feminist. Pleased to meet you. Most my friends are feminists. My boyfriend is very much a feminist. My exes save for one regrettable choice who concealed his views are feminists. I would be shocked if you haven't met a feminist. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
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