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My marriage is in turmoil right now. We are headed for divorce - the clock is ticking - literally.

 

I have been with my wife for 12 years - we have been married nearly nine. Two great kids.

 

We lost our first child at birth in 2008. Really damaging emotionally. Brought us closer together at first - then maybe pushed us apart.

 

She had been concerned for awhile that I was becoming disconnected from relationship. She tried to pull me back by telling me how she felt - tried to get me to set up more "date nights" and so on. I didn't always follow thru - but I thought I was giving all I could - being best husband and parent and provider and so on - leaving nothing for myself. I "heard" her concerns - I didn't hear them like she wanted/needed to be heard, however.

 

She finally gets to the point where she thinks I am "broken" and cannot be fixed and that her only path forward is without me and she jumps right in - contacts a lawyer and gets ball rolling.

 

She assumed I was going to react a certain way - she never paused to see how I would react - and there is a lot behind that, too - she has issues of self-worth and feeling like she's always depended on others so now this is her chance to just be strong and do something.

 

Thing is I didn't react in the way she thought I probably would. I was mad at first but quickly realized that maybe there was some truth to her assumptions and that I needed to "find" the guy I was before we lost our daughter - the very open and emotionally giving person I was and I have done the work - it has been hard - but I am so much closer to that guy than I have been in years. She acknowledges it.

 

We get along well right now. We're still living together. We still enjoy one another's company. We're working more in sync as parents and partners. We give one another space to go out and do our own things. I'm far more "present" for both her and the kids. There seems to be "harmony" in the house - up until she pulls back - which she always does - and then there will be a week where she is shut-off and cold and acts like I don't exist but then something will break the ice and we will be chummy again.

 

The thing is the clock is ticking. We can't just "wait and see" and postpone anything concrete - because she has started the process and she is the only one who can stop it - and she just clings to this path as the only path - and she has expressed doubt over whether or not she's done enough or is making the right decision.

 

This brings me to the point of my post - and I'll separate it from my "introduction" - sorry it's so long...

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If we were hating one another. If we had already gone our separate ways. If there had been infidelity or abuse or if one of us had already found someone else I wouldn't be writing this.

 

What we had was a strong relationship and what we've gone through seems fixable. There are still so many very good moments. There is still conflict in both of our minds - as much as she says she has her mind made up - there is still a lot of raw emotion.

 

She does not have a lot of support from her family (a sister and her mom and dad) nor from her friends - simply because they don't understand what is going on. They see two good people who should at least be able to fight for one another and they cannot understand why she won't - and her response is that they do not understand what she has gone thru to get to this point and I think they don't understand that, either. She acts like I put her through hell because I wasn't there enough emotionally - and I believe she has been hurt - but couples get through far worse.

 

Anyway - I have always been a cautious person. I take the safe path. I have been far too passive so far. I have been afraid of losing the tattered fragment of a relationship we still have. I have thought that if I just stay passive and avoid asserting MY emotions that maybe something good will happen and all that has happened is that we just keep dancing around the same assumptions and every day that passes is one day closer to the end.

 

In a fit of sadness just over a week ago, I reached out to her sister via Facebook. I just said I know where things are going and I wanted to thank you for always treating me like a member of the family. She responded quickly by saying she was on the phone but would write more later but wanted me to know she felt the same way and no matter what happened they would always see me a brother and an uncle.

 

She did write more later that night. Said she didn't really know what had gone on between us (nobody really knows - not sure my wife has really been that forthcoming) but that she was just sad for both of us. Said she felt bad about not reaching out to me - but was glad I did. Said she was afraid of making things worse.

 

I responded that her words meant more to me than I could express. Briefly mentioned my sadness and how much I loved her sister. Sent the response - then added that I felt like maybe I overstepped - didn't want to seem like I was venting. She said not to worry at all - that it was okay. She said stay strong - sent me a heart emoji and so on.

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I want to reach out to someone in her family. NOT to have someone intervene on my behalf. NOT to put someone in a bad position - to make them uncomfortable. NOT to be like "I'm willing to fight but she's not" but I really feel like someone who cares about her like I do should know that I have not simply resigned myself to my fate.

 

I would love to sit down with her mom and dad - but logistically that is not an option. I have a relationship with her sister. I want to reach out to her and let her know how I feel - call it my testament of my life with her sister.

 

I want to give her every opportunity to opt out of reading what I've written - no ill feelings if she feels like she doesn't want to read on. I need to tell someone. I don't think I can get past this unless I do.

 

I'm not looking at this as a magic bullet to solve our problems - but I don't know if I can sit back and continue to be so passive. I feel like this is a situation that calls for me to make some sort of stand and that right now I'm just sitting back and watching it all slide past me.

 

Am I completely off of my rocker?

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I want to reach out to someone in her family. NOT to have someone intervene on my behalf. NOT to put someone in a bad position - to make them uncomfortable. NOT to be like "I'm willing to fight but she's not" but I really feel like someone who cares about her like I do should know that I have not simply resigned myself to my fate.

 

I would love to sit down with her mom and dad - but logistically that is not an option. I have a relationship with her sister. I want to reach out to her and let her know how I feel - call it my testament of my life with her sister.

 

I want to give her every opportunity to opt out of reading what I've written - no ill feelings if she feels like she doesn't want to read on. I need to tell someone. I don't think I can get past this unless I do.

 

I'm not looking at this as a magic bullet to solve our problems - but I don't know if I can sit back and continue to be so passive. I feel like this is a situation that calls for me to make some sort of stand and that right now I'm just sitting back and watching it all slide past me.

 

Am I completely off of my rocker?

 

 

Wow, don't talk to her family. Bad idea.

 

Why don't you just ask her directly? What's the point of beating around the bushes?

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Speak direct to my wife? We have done that - and we never get anywhere. We keep going over the same ground - and while we do make progress - a little more of our feelings come out each time - it's not enough.

 

She has cut her family out.

 

I'm not looking for anyone to intervene. I just don't want to go down with the ship having never declared my feelings to anyone else because I've been too scared.

 

Call it what you want - an unburdening of my heart - or whatever.

 

From my brief interaction with her sister (and even her mother) it's clear they don't really know what is going on. They think it's either not as bad as it really is or that I'm just a passive participant and that I'm simply watching my world crumble around me.

 

That's a hard cross to bear, too.

 

If my wife and I were at one another's throats - if we were not talking - if there was nothing "good" left about us I would not care - but that is not the case.

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autumnnight
Anyway - I have always been a cautious person. I take the safe path. I have been far too passive so far. I have been afraid of losing the tattered fragment of a relationship we still have. I have thought that if I just stay passive and avoid asserting MY emotions that maybe something good will happen and all that has happened is that we just keep dancing around the same assumptions and every day that passes is one day closer to the end.

 

Actually, this strategy is probably what is NOT working. It sounds like she begged for you to be involved, FEEL something, have some passion, invest, express...for a very long time. You are being nicer, being around more, and probably being a really awesome dad now.

 

But are you focusing on her? Are you pursuing HER? Are you expressing yourself and taking risks and letting her know that she is a wife, a woman, a person you LOVE?

 

I might be projecting. My own ex knew how unhappy I was and why I was unhappy. His strategy was to hide behind his "that's just how I am" mantra and try not to make any sudden moves, thinking if he stayed really still and did more dishes I would drop the whole divorce idea. What I needed was to know he WANTED me, felt something, gave enough of a crap to really put himself out there.

 

He didn't.

 

People will come here and tell you that she is a brat and you need to 180 her and pull back and make her see what life is like without you. I am guessing she felt like she was already living without you. That is why she initiated divorce, because she didn't feel like she was married to anyone anyway. That whole aloof man, make her work for it strategy will get you divorced.

 

Do something different. take a risk. Be her husband.

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Have you tried marriage counselling at all ?

 

Sometimes just try and pour out your feelings , if not verbally in writing .

 

Right now , she's thinking you don't give a damn. Your actions don't say you're bothered.

The lack of communication is a major factor in marriage breakdowns.

 

Why not just apologies for not being there, acknowledge the effort she put in try and offer an explanation for why you never responded . If you don't want the divorce, then tell her. Tell her you love her and want to have another try at making it work. Be honest with how you feel and see if it can be saved.

 

The only problem will be if she's now checked out and has fallen out of love , because all her efforts failed. In her mind, that spells , he doesn't love me and doesn't care any more. Every one wants to feel loved and if she tried her hardest with no results, she could just want to find that love elsewhere.

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Actually, this strategy is probably what is NOT working. It sounds like she begged for you to be involved, FEEL something, have some passion, invest, express...for a very long time. You are being nicer, being around more, and probably being a really awesome dad now.

 

But are you focusing on her? Are you pursuing HER? Are you expressing yourself and taking risks and letting her know that she is a wife, a woman, a person you LOVE?

 

I might be projecting. My own ex knew how unhappy I was and why I was unhappy. His strategy was to hide behind his "that's just how I am" mantra and try not to make any sudden moves, thinking if he stayed really still and did more dishes I would drop the whole divorce idea. What I needed was to know he WANTED me, felt something, gave enough of a crap to really put himself out there.

 

He didn't.

 

People will come here and tell you that she is a brat and you need to 180 her and pull back and make her see what life is like without you. I am guessing she felt like she was already living without you. That is why she initiated divorce, because she didn't feel like she was married to anyone anyway. That whole aloof man, make her work for it strategy will get you divorced.

 

Do something different. take a risk. Be her husband.

 

Yes - she WAS already feeling like she was living without me - that's a huge part of the problem. You are exactly right: she initiated divorce because she didn't feel like she was married to anyone anyway.

 

I did not play the "woe is me" card and simply blame her. I might have at first - but I quickly realized I needed to look at myself - at my role. I knew I used to be someone but that I had allowed myself to maybe become the "vanished husband" and maybe that is not 100% true - I think I was there more than I'm given credit for - but it was her perception and yes - I did close myself off emotionally after we lost our daughter - not intentional - but trying to protect myself from that pain again.

 

The last three months have been a grueling journey to unlock the parts of myself I had shut off and put the man who she fell in love with back in the driver's seat.

 

I know she wants to feel like she's wanted. I know she wants to be pursued. She wants to feel cherished.

 

I have tried - but I have maybe not tried enough. I have to ask myself - have I really put myself out there and the answer is no. Yeah, I do small things when I can - small tokens that I care about her - but nothing that would ever qualify as a true "risk". I have been far too worried about making her angry or pushing her away more.

 

Example of the things I do: the place she works is on the way to our kid's daycare. A few weeks ago I noticed that a large truck was parked where she normally parks and that she had to park on the far side of the building. On the way back from daycare I noticed the truck was gone so I pulled into the lot - hopped into her car - and moved it to her normal spot so she wouldn't have to walk as far in the dark after work. It was a nice gesture - but it was safe. Yes - it did get a response - she acknowledged that I had done something nice for her - had thought about her.

 

People are going to say that I do need to distance myself from her - but in my heart I feel like there is something that could maybe be fixed. I just have been too passive - too cowardly. I'm doing what she has accused me of - of not taking a stand.

 

In reaching out to her sister - who I have always had a good relationship with - and who honestly was happy to hear from me last week - I'm not looking for someone to step in do something. If my words never travel further than from me to her - I can be okay with that...

 

...but call this my standing on the rooftop declaring my love moment. I need to tell someone - I need to put myself out there emotionally. I don't know what it will mean at this point. I just feel like I have to do it. I don't want to continue to sit back and watch my life unravel.

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Have you tried marriage counselling at all ?

 

Sometimes just try and pour out your feelings , if not verbally in writing .

 

Right now , she's thinking you don't give a damn. Your actions don't say you're bothered.

The lack of communication is a major factor in marriage breakdowns.

 

Why not just apologies for not being there, acknowledge the effort she put in try and offer an explanation for why you never responded . If you don't want the divorce, then tell her. Tell her you love her and want to have another try at making it work. Be honest with how you feel and see if it can be saved.

 

The only problem will be if she's now checked out and has fallen out of love , because all her efforts failed. In her mind, that spells , he doesn't love me and doesn't care any more. Every one wants to feel loved and if she tried her hardest with no results, she could just want to find that love elsewhere.

 

We tried counselling very early on - but she was never invested in it. She was convinced I was broken and could not be fixed. We went twice and that was it.

 

I have tried to pour out my feelings - which leads to her pouring out her feelings and we go back and forth.

 

There are issues of trust involved. I think she feels like she trusted me once and now she's not willing to trust me again.

 

She knows I don't want the divorce. I've tried explaining where I had been coming from. I think she understands - I don't know if she does - she has a lot of anger.

 

We kind of had it out on Friday night and she finally just said we keep going over and over the same ground and it's kind of annoying and I said maybe - but each time it seems like a little more of the our true emotions come out so maybe we don't do it enough.

 

I don't know - I just know I can't say I've done enough to save us. Yeah, I've worked on finding the guy I used to be - the guy I was before we lost our daughter. She acknowledges that. I just haven't made any solid gestures to show her I love her - just a lot of little things that I hoped would add up to something bigger.

 

As I said in another reply: I think I want my "rooftop" moment where I declare my true feelings for her - and I know people are going to say what is the point if I'm not just saying that to her - but I have and the message always gets obscured because we go on and on and off into tangents and so on.

 

I just feel like such a mess and I also just feel like there is still something "there" and I think other people feel it, too. I want someone to know that I do care - I really, truly do. I don't know what that will mean - but it has to mean more than simply sitting on my thumbs and watching it drift away.

 

...and yeah...the old me - the me I was before I shut myself off when we lost our daughter was a hopeless romantic who would write poems and paint pictures...and as I get more in touch with that guy again - I find it harder and harder to just sit back and watch.

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Passivity in a man is not an appealing quality. In fact, it can be absolutely infuriating.

 

To change anything, you would need to be active, rather than passive.

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She has cut her family out.

 

if she has no contact with her family then airing out all of her personal business to them is a REALLY bad idea.

 

I just don't want to go down with the ship having never declared my feelings to anyone else because I've been too scared.

 

you can unburden your heart to a therapist OR a friend just fine. it is interesting -- instead of unburdening your heart to your spouse, you literally focus on everyone else. write your spouse a long letter about it so she'll know how you're really feeling. you "unburdening" your heart to her sister -- she will probably see that as a betrayal of her own privacy (especially because she had kept quiet) & probably even assume that you might be harboring romantic feelings for her sister. overall, it is a bad idea.

 

that being said - no matter what you feel, it seems by your actions that you ARE leaving without fighting for your M. she fought, you didn't. she asked for a separation in hope you'll snap out of it and try harder - you didn't.

 

love CAN be gone if it isn't nurtured and if it isn't growing - this tragedy obviously set you back and you never really made any effort to go forward & your W got tired of it.

 

so again - reach out to a friend or to a therapist. this need to prove to the world that it wasn't your fault that your M failed is misplaced & you need to work on it with a professional. leave her family out of it.

 

i also think that you simply stopped loving your W in a romantic way, you fell out of love but are struggling to accept that because there is no "bad" blood between the two of you.

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It's not that I don't appreciate the advice or that I don't want to "hear" what you wrote - but I should clarify a few points:

 

if she has no contact with her family then airing out all of her personal business to them is a REALLY bad idea.

 

I should also clarify that she does have contact with her family - but they don't really support her decision - so those conversations go nowhere.

 

you can unburden your heart to a therapist OR a friend just fine. it is interesting -- instead of unburdening your heart to your spouse, you literally focus on everyone else. write your spouse a long letter about it so she'll know how you're really feeling. you "unburdening" your heart to her sister -- she will probably see that as a betrayal of her own privacy (especially because she had kept quiet) & probably even assume that you might be harboring romantic feelings for her sister. overall, it is a bad idea.

 

I've written her letters. We talk a lot. I've never run from my role in what has happened. I've worked hard - harder than I've worked on anything before - to get away from that closed off guy.

 

that being said - no matter what you feel, it seems by your actions that you ARE leaving without fighting for your M. she fought, you didn't. she asked for a separation in hope you'll snap out of it and try harder - you didn't.

 

I've never fought for anything harder. I've pulled myself apart and looked at what was wrong with me. Also, she never asked for a separation. She made the assumption that I was broken and could not be fixed and her next call was to the lawyer. She never gave pause to see what would happen if she took me to the wall and when I didn't react in the way she thought I would react I think it's created a lot of conflict in her mind. I wish so much she would have asked for a separation and given me a chance to snap out of it - but she never did.

 

love CAN be gone if it isn't nurtured and if it isn't growing - this tragedy obviously set you back and you never really made any effort to go forward & your W got tired of it.

 

I agree - I may not have nurtured it enough - I thought I did - maybe i didn't - and yes - the tragedy of losing our daughter set me (us) back - but I made a HUGE effort to move forward through counselling and support groups and she didn't. I've seen a therapist on a regular basis since we lost her. For me, it has been a constant and hands on struggle to make sense of this loss.

 

so again - reach out to a friend or to a therapist. this need to prove to the world that it wasn't your fault that your M failed is misplaced & you need to work on it with a professional. leave her family out of it.

 

i also think that you simply stopped loving your W in a romantic way, you fell out of love but are struggling to accept that because there is no "bad" blood between the two of you.

 

I never stopped loving her - nothing could be further from the truth. I hurt every single second of the day. I love that woman more than I love myself. I've been willing to accept my part in what went wrong - if anything - she has been the one to deflect her role. I'm not looking to prove to the world that this wasn't my fault.

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I should also clarify that she does have contact with her family - but they don't really support her decision - so those conversations go nowhere.

 

then why do you think airing it all out to her SISTER who is a part of her family would be a good idea? they don't support her & you professing your love for your W to her family will come off as you basically saying "look at me, i love her & she wants to leave!" & all of that will only further strain her relationship with her family.

 

also - my earlier question... DO you have any romantic feelings or attraction to her sister? because i have already seen a couple of situations where it went from confiding and finding a friend in a spouse's sibling to a full blown love affair with said sibling. so be careful.

 

I wish so much she would have asked for a separation and given me a chance to snap out of it - but she never did.

 

she DID give you a chance to snap out of it and she did give you a wake up call --- even you acknowledge that. but you didn't take her seriously & i think you struggle with accepting your blame. look at this =

 

Thing is I didn't react in the way she thought I probably would. I was mad at first but quickly realized that maybe there was some truth to her assumptions and that I needed to "find" the guy I was before we lost our daughter - the very open and emotionally giving person I was and I have done the work - it has been hard - but I am so much closer to that guy than I have been in years.

 

what does this mean...? what kind of reaction was she expecting...? it seems as if she expected you to snap out of it and FIGHT and instead you kind of just nodded your head and accepted it as a good idea.

 

I agree - I may not have nurtured it enough - I thought I did - maybe i didn't...

 

you didn't and again, even you acknowledge it -

 

She tried to pull me back by telling me how she felt - tried to get me to set up more "date nights" and so on. I didn't always follow thru - but I thought I was giving all I could - being best husband and parent and provider and so on - leaving nothing for myself. I "heard" her concerns - I didn't hear them like she wanted/needed to be heard, however.

 

you made huge efforts but they aren't and weren't enough.

 

I'm not looking to prove to the world that this wasn't my fault.

 

are you IN love with your W?

 

i just don't understand the need to air it all out to HER sister. what for...? do you have any other friends...? why do you plan to achieve by airing it all out to her sister?

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autumnnight

OP, do you tend to be an introspective person? I ask because you say you have pulled yourself apart looking at your wrong. Sometimes that can skew our perspective. Because you have introspected so much over your own changes, it may SEEM to you that you have really done a lot, but remember, all your wife can see is external action; she cannot see inside your head.

 

It is also possible that she is to the point that she doesn't necessarily want to here what you have been pondering in your introspection; she just wants to see action. Again, I may be projecting. My ex spent a lot of time analyzing and dissecting, and then he would take very safe steps sporadically. When I didn't instantly return to him emotionally, he just kind of threw up his hands and thought, "Well, I'll just never be enough."

 

If your wife is like I was, it took me YEARS to get so sad and lonely and disconnected that I decided to leave. It wasn't going to be "fixed" in a few weeks or even a few months. In fact, it became clear to me that what he wanted was to do just enough to get me over the hump so that he could breathe easily and go back to his old habits. I do not sense that from you, so that is a good thing.

 

For a lot of wives, especially maybe those who are toying with an affair or something, the whole hard to get, international man of mystery, see how life is without me sweetheart thing might work. But to a wife that already feels abandoned and unwanted, it just confirms what we already thought - he doesn't want us anyway.

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Look, I don't agree with the assumptions she made about me. She claims I was checked out - numb to the world because I was taking too many antidepressants (which I wasn't). She says I wasn't there when she needed me - again - I don't completely agree with this. She acts as if I was some neglectful fool - and that simply wasn't true. Could I have done more? Sure. Most husbands can say that.

 

She wasn't exactly forthright about her feelings, either. She talks about suffering in silence and crying in her car and so on. I never understood how lonely she was feeling because if I had I would have snapped into action very quickly. You can call me naive or obtuse or whatever - but when I finally got the message she never gave me a chance to stand and fight for her.

 

I think she expected the same passive response she felt she was getting from me all along. I don't think she expected me to take responsibility for my role in what went wrong. I don't think she expected I could change and find myself again.

 

I don't have any romantic feelings for her sister - and the choice of her sister is 1) because there really isn't anyone else (I feel it should be someone who cares about her as much as I do) and 2) because we already have a dialogue.

 

Look, I'm not expecting this to be a magic bullet. I've talked my friends to death about this already and while they're good listeners - they have no emotional investment in it. I just want to talk with someone who does.

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You two may be married but each's version of the M is worlds away from the others reality. Couple that with miserable communication and you are on the expressway to D. I don't see this ending in any other way other than D.

 

You have tried talking but you two aren't communicating. We know this because you keep covering the same ground - you might be talking, she might be hearing but no one is communicating. The issue is unresolved (hence it keeps coming back up).

 

You may or may not try some letter but how will a letter be any different from the previous talks and MC? (It won't.) And really, a letter is passive and a "meek-ish" way to communicate - especially when the other party is, presumably, in the same house. But I get the thinking as to why.

 

How to save this? Well, like I said I don't see much worth saving as communication is the cornerstone of a good M - and yours is a house of cards built from a worn out deck. You can TRY MC again - because your M is in crisis and needs immediate and intense therapy. Both together and individually. However, what leads us to believe that this go around, provided your W agrees (and what might that tell you) will be any different? Nothing.

 

My advice, see a lawyer and just learn, learn the law as it pertains to D. Just get a neutral and informed view. Nothing more. Then talk to your W. Demand MC. Try and save the M. If she refuses...well, there ya go. I'd call the aforementioned lawyer and get started on the D.

 

I wish I had better perspective - but it takes two to save a M and I only read YOU trying.

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autumnnight
Look, I don't agree with the assumptions she made about me. She claims I was checked out - numb to the world because I was taking too many antidepressants (which I wasn't). She says I wasn't there when she needed me - again - I don't completely agree with this. She acts as if I was some neglectful fool - and that simply wasn't true. Could I have done more? Sure. Most husbands can say that.

 

Well then, what's the problem? You're obviously married to a selfish woman who isn't giving you enough credit. Now that she's filed for divorce, she's freeing you to find a better one.

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OP, do you tend to be an introspective person? I ask because you say you have pulled yourself apart looking at your wrong. Sometimes that can skew our perspective. Because you have introspected so much over your own changes, it may SEEM to you that you have really done a lot, but remember, all your wife can see is external action; she cannot see inside your head.

 

It is also possible that she is to the point that she doesn't necessarily want to here what you have been pondering in your introspection; she just wants to see action. Again, I may be projecting. My ex spent a lot of time analyzing and dissecting, and then he would take very safe steps sporadically. When I didn't instantly return to him emotionally, he just kind of threw up his hands and thought, "Well, I'll just never be enough."

 

If your wife is like I was, it took me YEARS to get so sad and lonely and disconnected that I decided to leave. It wasn't going to be "fixed" in a few weeks or even a few months. In fact, it became clear to me that what he wanted was to do just enough to get me over the hump so that he could breathe easily and go back to his old habits. I do not sense that from you, so that is a good thing.

 

For a lot of wives, especially maybe those who are toying with an affair or something, the whole hard to get, international man of mystery, see how life is without me sweetheart thing might work. But to a wife that already feels abandoned and unwanted, it just confirms what we already thought - he doesn't want us anyway.

 

Yeah, I'm very introspective. I know who I was before we lost our daughter - and I think I know some of the changes that overtook me after our loss - a lot of which has come out in therapy. I'm not so much trying to change as I am trying to find the guy I used to be: the emotionally open guy who never missed a chance to cherish his wife.

 

I feel like I've tried to play it too safe - afraid to damage whatever was left of our relationship - thinking that if I was careful it would heal itself - but I should have done more - I should have chased her. I should have put myself out there and taken some chances.

 

It's for real - it's not about doing just enough to get her back so that I can revert to how I was - it's all about just getting that second chance because I know I can run with it.

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