Are There Double Standards Here?

[SweetKitten]

Hello again.

 

I'm still learning my way around this forum, reading stories, and trying to understand all of this.

 

Today, I spent a lot of time reading some of you guys' stories here. Partially because I want to become closer, if you will, to the community and know people by (user)name and understand why certain responses from them come off as harsh, hateful, or even mean-spirited at times while others come off in a more "motherly" way.

I also wanted to see if others got the same "slap to the face" advice that I've received.

 

It seems pretty split.

 

I've read posts from some ladies that seemed to me (as an outsider) like they need a SERIOUS slap back to reality (breaking NC, admiring MM that have hurt them, so on and so forth), yet the people responding to the posts almost seem to coddle them.

 

On the other hand, I've seen others posts with the exact same content and it's almost as if LS users smell blood and attack.

 

Now, none of this is necessarily about me or my posts. I'm more curious as to why there seems to be this double standard.

 

Is it more or less towards new LS members?

 

I'm still reading through posts now so this may change, but I just noticed that after reading a few and thought I'd ask if anyone else noticed that or not.

[daisygirl19]

I've wondered this as well...

 

I think that any time you have a group that on opposite sides of the spectrum (OW v BS), you're going to get some pretty strong opinions. I think some (not all) BS have ill will towards any OW, and some (again, not all) OW cannot relate to BS.

 

I spent a lot of time searching for a place to find support, or interact with other OWs. While there's a lot of support out there for BS, I often feel like OW are on an island of our own. This is the best place I've found so far.

 

The common theme though, is that we're all here because we are struggling, or have struggled with infidelity, even if we are/were wearing different shoes...

[RoseVille]

I've read posts from some ladies that seemed to me (as an outsider) like they need a SERIOUS slap back to reality (breaking NC, admiring MM that have hurt them, so on and so forth),

 

So, you're talking about yourself and your first MM who manipulated you into believing he was single but who is married and who you yet think of fondly as one of your best friends and broke NC to reach out to him...?

 

Now, none of this is necessarily about me or my posts. I'm more curious as to why there seems to be this double standard.

 

It's not a double standard. Those who are BS will see an OW's situation much differently than those who are or were OW's themselves.

[Poppy47]

I agree with Daisy.

 

I have never felt attacked although I do see some posters ( maybe BS) who automatically attack and sometimes belittle OW.

 

I think the moderators do good work to keep a balance on the board. About 7 years ago ,before proper moderation, this place was a bloody battlefield.

 

Poppy.

[jen1447]

There's definitely a certain pack mentality/group dynamics thing that forms up here from time to time from what I've seen, and sometimes with surprising participants. I do believe there's a social dynamic involved that can be pretty base, much the way groups of women (less often men it seems) attack in school settings and other social groups. I don't care for it frankly.

 

The mods have seemed to indicate there's a group of members here who participate on other forums and come here 'hunting for blood' more or less. No idea what that's about but I assume they're not making it up.

 

I think you'll find yourself accepted more or less Kitten after the 'indoctrination period.' There are mostly good people here from what I've seen - just stay close and I'll watch your back.

[RoseVille]

I have never felt attacked although I do see some posters ( maybe BS) who automatically attack and sometimes belittle OW.

 

It's somewhat easy to sniff out a BS in thread given the way they respond. There's a sort of mean spirited, "You think you're so special but you're dumb, all MM are the same!" attitude that radiates from their posts. Every time I suspect, I don't have to go back very far to confirm they are indeed a BS.

 

We all post based on our experiences and our biases. And if one is still hurting, if can cloud the advice we give. I often wish, as I've seen on other forums, that the OW forum could be just for OW, free of BS, and therefore a safe place for OW, and that the Infidelity forum could be free of OW, and the safe place for BS. (I mean, very rarely will you see OW in BS threads trying to tell them what's what. The respect only flows one way, I guess.)

 

But I understand that will never happen. Anyone can post anywhere.

[SweetKitten]

Jen, I like you more and more every day

[autumnnight]

I think sometimes it also depends on how long a poster has been here?

 

For example, I know of a couple of former OW/struggling OW who have been around here a long time (well, they were here way before me). And some of the same BW's who will just shred a newcomer are almost lovingly mothery to them. I think it is because they have invested in the older poster's story, watched them struggle, and have developed some sympathy as they have seen the former OW change.

 

I think too, when an OW/OM's story is strikingly similar to another poster's own story, the triggers can be painful. And of course, the OW/OM's responses to posts can determine a lot. A remorseful OW is going to get a lot more gentleness than one who seems oblivious to the pain they are causing.

[SweetKitten]

It's somewhat easy to sniff out a BS in thread given the way they respond. There's a sort of mean spirited, "You think you're so special but you're dumb, all MM are the same!" attitude that radiates from their posts. Every time I suspect, I don't have to go back very far to confirm they are indeed a BS.

 

We all post based on our experiences and our biases. And if one is still hurting, if can cloud the advice we give. I often wish, as I've seen on other forums, that the OW forum could be just for OW, free of BS, and therefore a safe place for OW, and that the Infidelity forum could be free of OW, and the safe place for BS. (I mean, very rarely will you see OW in BS threads trying to tell them what's what. The respect only flows one way, I guess.)

 

But I understand that will never happen. Anyone can post anywhere.

 

I did think it was interesting to have such diverse topics on one forum. You're bound to have a BS comment on a OWs post, huh?

 

I'm sort of still learning! I honestly didn't even think about the BS vs OW being within the same threads.

[RoseVille]

I did think it was interesting to have such diverse topics on one forum. You're bound to have a BS comment on a OWs post, huh?

 

I'm sort of still learning! I honestly didn't even think about the BS vs OW being within the same threads.

 

Yup, you're gonna get a variety of opinions. And where the double standard often lies - in my experience, anyway - is with a handful of married OW telling a single OW just how horrible she is.

 

I mean, there's a split when it comes to whether a single OW owes any responsibility to the BS in an affair, but when the OW is married herself and is breaking her own vows to her own spouse, isn't she "worse," for lack of a better word?

 

There's another very pro-marriage/anti-affair forum that has a thread about this forum (specifically the OW and infidelity forum), I found it when Googling around on my own situation. And I recognized some of the same participants there as the "mean" posters in my threads.

[Lurkeraspect]

I've never been a BS or an OW. I'm just a woman. The advice I give here is the same advice I'd give my daughter, sister or girlfriend. I have compassion for the BS, I have compassion for the OW who were lied to about the MMs status, I have compassion for the very young women who have been groomed by the older, smooth MM.

 

My compassion ends with the OW/OM who knowingly signed up to screw over another person and their children. If that's a double standard, then so be it.

 

I read here for years before joining, and if you think it's bad now, you should have been here 5-6 years ago. It was like the Wild West. ?

[Sassy Girl]

Soo, you complain about people attacking other people by creating a thread where people are.... Ragging on the BS?

 

Just what we need

 

For the record...not a BS

 

But not afraid to call it how I see it... Part of it is cultural, part of it is my communication style. Take it or leave it. Don't like it? Hit the alert button and let the mods deal with it. Stick around long enough you'll know I will own every word I say and I will take my licks where they are deserved also. I'm pretty consistent as well. And I don't hold grudges. Say your piece and move on. Don't like it? Not that bothered. It's an anonymous forum. I KNOW lots of people will disagree with me. It's called diversity.

 

What I do know is I'm not "regrouping" on some other forum. In fact I don't interact with anyone away from this forum and very rarely even private message people. So that comment was inaccurate in my case. I wouldn't even know what they're talking about.

 

I'm not going to apologise for who I am. And I won't coddle people who make poor choices.

 

And yeah I will defend the BS - who hasn't done anything wrong- when a thread is started that gives people the green light to rag on them. Says more about you than them.

 

So there's your double standard. Plenty of people on this forum (and this thread) only want hand holding and "empathy". Well that's all good and well - but where's yours?

Edited June 22, 2015 by Sassy Girl

[RoseVille]

My compassion ends with the OW/OM who knowingly signed up to screw over another person and their children. If that's a double standard, then so be it.

 

But there's an assumption built into your bias, that an OW signed up to hurt a W or children. C'mon. I have yet to see an OW think that will be the end result of her A. If you believe that do be true, than you believe every woman who's ever been an OW is a malicious psychopath.

 

I sure hope you don't see us all that way?

 

I read here for years before joining, and if you think it's bad now, you should have been here 5-6 years ago. It was like the Wild West. ?

 

I was. It seems to have gotten worse in many respects.

[Lurkeraspect]

But there's an assumption built into your bias, that an OW signed up to hurt a W or children. C'mon. I have yet to see an OW think that will be the end result of her A. If you believe that do be true, than you believe every woman who's ever been an OW is a malicious psychopath.

 

I sure hope you don't see us all that way?

 

 

 

I was. It seems to have gotten worse in many respects.

 

 

I stand by what I said. There are plenty of threads where the OW talks about the BS. She's a bad wife, slovenly, mean, poor housekeeper, a drunk, crap mom, add what you will. Then there are others, who actually KNOW the BS, might be "friends" with them, they say she's a wonderful woman. Yet, they still engage, consequences be dammed. That's what I'm talking about. Sorry, I have zero, zilch, nada, no sympathy or empathy for that.

 

But that doesn't mean people are forever damned. People change all the time. And that transformation is wonderful to watch.

[HtotheN]

 

I often wish, as I've seen on other forums, that the OW forum could be just for OW, free of BS, and therefore a safe place for OW, and that the Infidelity forum could be free of OW, and the safe place for BS. (I mean, very rarely will you see OW in BS threads trying to tell them what's what. The respect only flows one way, I guess.)

 

But I understand that will never happen. Anyone can post anywhere.

 

I could not agree with you more. But since things are how they are, any of us could simply block those whose replies you don't care to see since they would be a waste of time to even read, since you already know what they will say since they always say the same freakin thing. I get that anyone can post on any forum (despite what it says at the top of this forum, under the description), so since that cannot be controlled, we can control what we see to some degree. I have never taken the time to do that but that idea has occurred to me.

As it is, I just do the roll and scroll (roll eyes, scroll on by.)

[Be_Strong]

I'm a BS, and I participate occasionally on this forum if I have anything helpful to share. I definitely don't hold anything against OW/OM in general, and I try to treat everyone in the same way I'd respond to requests for advice from a good friend. Most of my advice is not even meant to be from a BS's perspective, but just from the perspective of a man in general.

 

Having said that, I have noticed some BS's that definitely seem to take a harsh tone towards OW and can be evangelistic in their anti-cheating themes. It doesn't necessarily mean the advice they are giving is bad (assuming they are giving advice and not just ripping on someone), but the presentation could be gentler.

 

I also disagree that there is a clear cut dichotomy with all the mean posts being from BS's and the posts being from OW. Plenty of OW are harsh in their criticisms of other OW. An OW who has been deeply hurt by a MM might not pull any punches on another OW that she sees embarking down the same path that caused her so much pain.

[jwi71]

It's somewhat easy to sniff out a BS in thread given the way they respond. There's a sort of mean spirited, "You think you're so special but you're dumb, all MM are the same!" attitude that radiates from their posts. Every time I suspect, I don't have to go back very far to confirm they are indeed a BS.

 

But where/are they wrong? That, to me, is the real question. After all, reading and posting here (and elsewhere) leads me to believe that most MM are very, very similar. And virtually all follow a set script or pattern. Its easy to see/find...just read a few pages of stories. Given enough time, it all seems like old hat.

 

And again...is their advice wrong simply because they are the MM/MW or the BS or the OM/OW? How does the label they wear affect the quality/truthfulness/insight of their post?

 

We all post based on our experiences and our biases. And if one is still hurting, if can cloud the advice we give. I often wish, as I've seen on other forums, that the OW forum could be just for OW, free of BS, and therefore a safe place for OW, and that the Infidelity forum could be free of OW, and the safe place for BS. (I mean, very rarely will you see OW in BS threads trying to tell them what's what. The respect only flows one way, I guess.)

 

Those forums DO exist. I've been to them. Perhaps you have as well. I find them breeding grounds of group-think - nary a dissenting voice. Almost for that reason alone LS proves, to me, superior (and active mods).

 

I enjoy choirs not because they all are the same but because of the harmony of different voices ( I dont actually enjoy choirs - just a saying I just coined - I'm going to give Jack Handy a run for his(?) money).

 

But I understand that will never happen. Anyone can post anywhere.

 

Accept what rings true to you, read it all and reject the rest. True anywhere.

Really...whats the point in arguing with advice you don't like?

[autumnnight]

I wish there could be a designated no trespassing safe place for everyone, even people I do not agree with.

 

I really think BS's pretty much HAVE that place in the infidelity forum. Anyone who even hints at justifying an A gets drowned out pretty quickly. I think, though, forums in general are pretty tough places for any OW/OM or WS to get compassionate help. Their purpose in a lot of forums pretty quickly gets reduced to venting scapegoat, with the exception of a handful of people who are able to see past their stuff to try to help the poster change.

 

I get it. If a child molester or a bludgeoningly legalistic fundamentalist posted, I'd be really hard-pressed to post to them with anything but triggers. Of course, my choice in that case would be to just....NOT post to them at all.

[HtotheN]

Soo, you complain about people attacking other people by creating a thread where people are.... Ragging on the BS?

 

But not afraid to call it how I see it... Part of it is cultural, part of it is my communication style. Take it or leave it. Don't like it? Hit the alert button and let the mods deal with it. Stick around long enough you'll know I will own every word I say and I will take my licks where they are deserved also. I'm pretty consistent as well. And I don't hold grudges. Say your piece and move on. Don't like it? Not that bothered. It's an anonymous forum. I KNOW lots of people will disagree with me. It's called diversity.

 

What I do know is I'm not "regrouping" on some other forum. In fact I don't interact with anyone away from this forum and very rarely even private message people. So that comment was inaccurate in my case. I wouldn't even know what they're talking about.

 

I'm not going to apologise for who I am. And I won't coddle people who make poor choices.

 

And yeah I will defend the BS - who hasn't done anything wrong- when a thread is started that gives people the green light to rag on them. Says more about you than them.

 

So there's your double standard. Plenty of people on this forum (and this thread) only want hand holding and "empathy". Well that's all good and well - but where's yours?

 

I hear you and I also think that it is not good to rag on the BS but if it's gonna be done, wouldn't this board be the place to do so? Of course it most definitely should not be done on the BS board but where else would it be done other than here? (And to be fair, I have seen some "OW ragging" on the BS board as well.) I think that we should all remember which board we are going to and realize that we may read certain things that may upset us. I personally wouldn't bother reporting anyone because that seems so high schoolish but that's everyone's perogative to do so.

[autumnnight]

I don't think the question is "are they wrong?" I think sometimes the question is "do you have to say it that way/are you REALLY trying to help or just venting?"

 

Motive really does matter.

 

And one could argue this: apparently it is the BS who has the superior self-control (as exhibited by the fact that they have not cheated). So it stands to reason that they probably have the ABILITY not to go off, but choose not to exercise it

[Sassy Girl]

I hear you and I also think that it is not good to rag on the BS but if it's gonna be done, wouldn't this board be the place to do so? Of course it most definitely should not be done on the BS board but where else would it be done other than here? (And to be fair, I have seen some "OW ragging" on the BS board as well.) I think that we should all remember which board we are going to and realize that we may read certain things that may upset us. I personally wouldn't bother reporting anyone because that seems so high schoolish but that's everyone's perogative to do so.

 

Yeah but here's the rub: the BS didn't choose their situation. Most often, the OW did.

 

And I've seen plenty of OW participating in the infidelity forum- and many of them are justifying their affairs

[jen1447]

I could not agree with you more. But since things are how they are, any of us could simply block those whose replies you don't care to see since they would be a waste of time to even read, since you already know what they will say since they always say the same freakin thing. I get that anyone can post on any forum (despite what it says at the top of this forum, under the description), so since that cannot be controlled, we can control what we see to some degree. I have never taken the time to do that but that idea has occurred to me.

As it is, I just do the roll and scroll (roll eyes, scroll on by.)

Blocking's actually pretty easy to do - just go to the user's profile, and near the top left there's a drop down menu for "user lists." One of them is "ignore user." Tick that and presto, you don't see their posts anymore.

 

I really don't like doing that personally and think it's an extreme measure, but sometimes if people get too tiresome there's not much else left to do.

[HtotheN]

Yeah but here's the rub: the BS didn't choose their situation. Most often, the OW did.

 

And I've seen plenty of OW participating in the infidelity forum- and many of them are justifying their affairs

 

So you are asserting that choice rather than which board a person is on is all that matters?

 

Going on that board and trying to justify an affair? Yeah that's not right.

[HtotheN]

Blocking's actually pretty easy to do - just go to the user's profile, and near the top left there's a drop down menu for "user lists." One of them is "ignore user." Tick that and presto, you don't see their posts anymore.

 

I really don't like doing that personally and think it's an extreme measure, but sometimes if people get too tiresome there's not much else left to do.

 

Yes it is easy enough to do but it's not worth the bother to me. The roll and scroll is sufficient for my needs.

[jwi71]

I don't think the question is "are they wrong?" I think sometimes the question is "do you have to say it that way/are you REALLY trying to help or just venting?"

 

Motive really does matter.

 

Oh absolutely.

 

And, maybe, if one can, think from where that poster is coming from: pain.

Maybe, ignore the vent/attack and realize the words of an internet stranger can only affect you if you let them, try and realize it isn't personal, and have (not necessarily show) sympathy for a post in pain. And this is for BS in pain and the OW also in pain.

 

Tall order I know when user123 is calling "you" a two bit wh_re and 49 cents overpriced.

 

We all trigger. We are all, last I checked, human. No one is perfectly right (except me and don't tell my W) and no one is perfectly wrong.

 

And one could argue this: apparently it is the BS who has the superior self-control (as exhibited by the fact that they have not cheated). So it stands to reason that they probably have the ABILITY not to go off, but choose not to exercise it

 

And that line of thinking is how users earn points and threads get locked and the us-vs-them division becomes starker.

 

Who wants to bet a mod doesn't issue a warning in the next 2 pages?

 

I'm out before I too get dragged into this.