The reason Chivalry is dead..

[Maleficent]

I actually have a certain respect for women like her and Solanas because they come right out and say it. If you hate me have the honor to come right out and say it. It's the ones who hide their misandry only for it to come out during certain moments that get to me. The vast majority of people won't take somebody advocating genocide of the male gender seriously but telling a man going nasty divorce to call the waambulance is taken seriously. The latter is the bigger issue.

 

But here you are comparing one person voicing an opinion worldwide - hate speach, essentially - with one ****ty person being inconsiderate to another.

 

I fail to see how telling a man to call the waambulance is a result of feminism...if anything, it comes from the notion that men are 'tough' and crying is a 'woman thing to do'

(which is one of the things feminism is fighting against)

[Maleficent]

True. But your assertion that there's an external reason for their hatred and behavior is disingenuous. These women weren't pushed to hatred by external means. They simply HATE. They also self identify as feminists. So my question is, how can I support a movement where some of its followers believe I should be dead?

 

Feminists own their fringe movement. Just like Christians own WBC, MRA their misogynists, etc.

 

How many Christians have abandoned their faith because of WBC? How many muslims abandonned their faith because of ISIS?

etc

etc

etc

[toscaroscura]

I actually have a certain respect for women like her and Solanas because they come right out and say it. If you hate me have the honor to come right out and say it. It's the ones who hide their misandry only for it to come out during certain moments that get to me. The vast majority of people won't take somebody advocating genocide of the male gender seriously but telling a man going nasty divorce to call the waambulance is taken seriously. The latter is the bigger issue.

 

This is not an equivalent thing.

 

Don't we get scores of bitter posts from men here about how women are this and that, usually after nasty divorces or dating experiences? I would call them misogynistic (depending on how fiercely they blame all women for the crimes of a few) but to say they therefore advocate for the extermination of the female gender would sound crazy.

[Maleficent]

OMG guys I just have to say, this is a very interesting conversation and while we all have different opinions, we are still exchanging without insulting each other!

 

I'm loving this.

[Woggle]

This is not an equivalent thing.

 

Don't we get scores of bitter posts from men here about how women are this and that, usually after nasty divorces or dating experiences? I would call them misogynistic (depending on how fiercely they blame all women for the crimes of a few) but to say they therefore advocate for the extermination of the female gender would sound crazy.

 

True but women going through a nasty split where they were burned are usually given a little leeway when they bash men. People realize they are hurting so why aren't men who are clearly hurting and in pain given some leeway?

[toolforgrowth]

But here you are comparing one person voicing an opinion worldwide - hate speach, essentially - with one ****ty person being inconsiderate to another.

 

I fail to see how telling a man to call the waambulance is a result of feminism...if anything, it comes from the notion that men are 'tough' and crying is a 'woman thing to do'

(which is one of the things feminism is fighting against)

 

I've been told by a self identified feminist here on this thread that I have no right to be uosetby the fact that my cheating ex wife legally got the majority of custody a of my daughter and child support from me. She didn't flat out say "waaambulance" but that was essentially the gist of what she said.

 

It really opened my eyes to what a "typical feminist" thinks.

[Woggle]

How many Christians have abandoned their faith because of WBC? How many muslims abandonned their faith because of ISIS?

etc

etc

etc

 

Many actually. There are more atheists in America than any time before and many liberal and progressive people don't have a high opinion of religion. This can be blamed mostly on the religious right. The extremists have hijacked the ship just like they did with feminism.

[Renton]

if anything, it comes from the notion that men are 'tough' and crying is a 'woman thing to do'

(which is one of the things feminism is fighting against)

 

Just one of the gender norms that are out there. I don't see how that particular gender norm will ever truly change.

[Maleficent]

Many actually. There are more atheists in America than any time before and many liberal and progressive people don't have a high opinion of religion. This can be blamed mostly on the religious right. The extremists have hijacked the ship just like they did with feminism.

 

But still many many people stand by their faiths and call out extremists. And choice of religion is still respected.

 

Why is feminism turning into this super shameful things despite the same thing is happening? Yes, people are turning away from it but there are people who still believe it is necessary and most aren't extremists...

[Maleficent]

I've been told by a self identified feminist here on this thread that I have no right to be uosetby the fact that my cheating ex wife legally got the majority of custody a of my daughter and child support from me. She didn't flat out say "waaambulance" but that was essentially the gist of what she said.

 

It really opened my eyes to what a "typical feminist" thinks.

 

This is what one feminist thinks. I'm a feminist and I think she is an ass.

 

Does that balance things out for you?

[Woggle]

But still many many people stand by their faiths and call out extremists. And choice of religion is still respected.

 

Why is feminism turning into this super shameful things despite the same thing is happening? Yes, people are turning away from it but there are people who still believe it is necessary and most aren't extremists...

 

I respect the ones who call out extremists just like I respect the feminists who call out extremists.

[autumnnight]

I actually have a certain respect for women like her and Solanas because they come right out and say it. If you hate me have the honor to come right out and say it. It's the ones who hide their misandry only for it to come out during certain moments that get to me. The vast majority of people won't take somebody advocating genocide of the male gender seriously but telling a man going nasty divorce to call the waambulance is taken seriously. The latter is the bigger issue.

 

Yep, I have as little patience for this as I do men who rant about women while maintaining that they really like women. A woman who says she is not a misandrist and yet espouses some of the the anti-men, anti-sex, etc stuff I read just gets on my nerves. Of course, the worst group of all are the women who seem to hate women, but that is a whole other thread.

[Maleficent]

True but women going through a nasty split where they were burned are usually given a little leeway when they bash men. People realize they are hurting so why aren't men who are clearly hurting and in pain given some leeway?

 

Again, I'm sure that for every person who thinks women 'deserve' more leeway in their hate towards women, there is another who thinks it's bull****.

 

Sweeping generalizations aren't helping anyone here.

[toolforgrowth]

This is what one feminist thinks. I'm a feminist and I think she is an ass.

 

Does that balance things out for you?

 

It's appreciated. But it doesn't make me sympathetic to the movement as a whole. I can, and do, respect you and your beliefs. I'll never argue with you directly about what you, Maleficent, believe.

 

But no, I can never by sympathetic to the aggregate feminist movement because not all feminists practice what they preach. And in fact, they use feminism as a means to elevate their rights above my own. My self interest is in direct contradiction to it.

[Maleficent]

It's appreciated. But it doesn't make me sympathetic to the movement as a whole. I can, and do, respect you and your beliefs. I'll never argue with you directly about what you, Maleficent, believe.

 

But no, I can never by sympathetic to the aggregate feminist movement because not all feminists practice what they preach. And in fact, they use feminism as a means to elevate their rights above my own. My self interest is in direct contradiction to it.

 

I understand and I can respect that.

[superkatnip]

The definition of feminism is the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. Nowhere does this talk about male bashing or putting down an entire gender for the misogynistic behavior of some.

I think there are some very nasty, angry, hurtful men AND women out there.

Despite a VERRRYYY bad marriage, do not condemn all men because of the actions of ONE - TO ME.

We are humans and hopefully we all are considerate and polite. I hold doors open for others as much as they hold them open for me. Give up seats on buses to those who seem to need them more than I, etc.

[Taramere]

I see chivalry as something associated with honour and nobility. It can be associated with manners, but whereas manners simply show that somebody is familiar with "the way we do things around here", chivalry is about character.

 

I would not expect a man to risk his life to save mine. But naturally, if I met a man who did risk his life to save mine then I would hold him in higher esteem than I would hold any other man. I should think a man would feel the same way about a woman who risked her life for him.

 

With regard to non life threatening, every day chivalry (helping you with a bag etc)....well, to me of course the chivalrous man is more attractive, unless there seems to be some dodgy motive/sarcasm attached to his chivalry. And it's generally the exchanges involved in those situations seem to be pretty pleasant for everybody involved - so, male or female, why wouldn't a person participate in them?

 

For anybody man who thinks women aren't chivalrous - go out and about and actually watch people. Watch to see who helps a woman who's struggling with a pushchair. Or who helps when a person has dropped something. Or who waves a car to pull out in front of them. I see women and men performing small acts of chivalry all the time.

 

Then there are the far more serious, significant and courageous acts of chivalry:

 

Female Army medic Sarah Bushbye awarded Military Cross for 'extreme courage' | Daily Mail Online

 

And the guys in the Aurora shooting spree - absolutely. These people are all exceptional, because they go way beyond what can be reasonably expected of another person as regards helping others. Like the knights of old, you could say. They were the ones who were exceptionally noble and courageous. It's not behaviour you expect. It wouldn't be reasonable to expect it - but of course, the people who do have that level of courage, nobility and honour are held in the highest esteem. They deserve to be for their exceptional courage and character.

 

To say "I refuse to cultivate an exceptional character because feminism....modern women....lack of material/sexual reward to date for behaviour of mine that I regard as exceptional" - these are all excuses for not being exceptional. Excuses shouldn't be needed for such a thing. Unless, of course, a guy likes to holds himself/a group he is part of as being exceptionally honourable, courageous, protective etc.

[hotpotato]

No one has to reciprocate bc you gave them a compliment, held the door for them, or were nice. This is true for all relationships.

[loveweary11]

No one has to reciprocate bc you gave them a compliment, held the door for them, or were nice. This is true for all relationships.

 

Nor should anyone ever expect reciprocation in these cases.

 

I guess by the definition of this thread, im kind of chivalrous.

 

I pay for dates.

I make sure my lady friends are comfortable and enjoying themselves.

I actually enjoy carrying very heavy things for the little workout.

I hold doors for women and men alike.

I stand in the subway at all times so others may sit.

Grab items off the top grocery store shelf for shorter women.

Carry old ladies' heavy suitcases up massive flights of stairs when i see them struggle in the subway...

The list goes on and on.

 

Never would I expect anything in return... not even a thank you.., but I've always received one.

 

You do these things to make the world a better place and to get a little free exercise in, not to impress people or with expectations.

 

You do them just to see the smile on a stranger's face when they were struggling before you lent a hand.

[hotpotato]

I think op needs to realize that relationships are not linear equations. If you do x that doesnt mean youll get Y. Being nice doesnt necessarily yield dates or even thank yous.

 

It sounds like you are being nice instead of kind. Being kind mean you do it for the sake of doing a good deed. Imo you are being nice and expecting some kind of result.

[Haydn]

Nor should anyone ever expect reciprocation in these cases.

 

I guess by the definition of this thread, im kind of chivalrous.

 

I pay for dates.

I make sure my lady friends are comfortable and enjoying themselves.

I actually enjoy carrying very heavy things for the little workout.

I hold doors for women and men alike.

I stand in the subway at all times so others may sit.

Grab items off the top grocery store shelf for shorter women.

Carry old ladies' heavy suitcases up massive flights of stairs when i see them struggle in the subway...

The list goes on and on.

 

Never would I expect anything in return... not even a thank you.., but I've always received one.

 

You do these things to make the world a better place and to get a little free exercise in, not to impress people or with expectations.

 

You do them just to see the smile on a stranger's face when they were struggling before you lent a hand.

 

I can agree on most of these things.....

 

But once a little old lady on a bus dropped her shopping. I scampered to pick up every potato etc...and offered to see her off the bus on her stop.

 

7 changes later, which took in a tour of parts of London i`d never seen before, we arrived at her home. I put away her her shopping as directed and wandered back out into the street....

 

Wondering where the hell i was.......

[StanMusial]

I think you are right, it is coming back, and I see it more and more from young men as young as late-teen and early 20s.

 

I would even say that in public transportation young men are quicker to get up and offer their seat than older men (40sh) are.

I gave my seat at the train station to an old lady the other day. The waiting area was packed and she looked pretty tired. Little bit of respect for elders never hurt. I completely disagree that the younger generation is more polite or chivalrous. Society in general has become more crude in a strange sort of PC way. The younger generation is going to reflect that. We were rough when I was growing up, in a lot of ways rougher than the next generation, but we knew to clean it up in mixed company.

[casey.lives]

Most men are generally attentive and respectful in the presence of women, from my observations. However, most men feel entitled and somehow superior to their other male counterparts not knowing other men are chivalrous too, for the most part, all the time. They are unaware of how prevalent gentleman behavior is practiced and they seem to feel that it sets them apart when it's in fact very common. Be a well mannered man... and YOURSELF. It's the combination that wins a girl ;P

[carhill]

I backed off the chivalrous behaviors, strongly socialized into me as a child with the first recipient being, yup, the mother, emulating father's behaviors, mainly because women of my generation whom I interacted with responded negatively to such behaviors, either in words or body language or both. I received the overwhelming impression that such behaviors diminished and infantilized them. "Fake" was a word I heard numerous times, more so with women whom I knew than with abject strangers.

 

Being an increasingly pragmatic man, mostly in my 20's, after watching how such men succeeded, I dialed back the chivalry to a level which was perceptibly acceptable. That was a choice. I still practice the 'old' ways today, but only with women whom I have long relations with and whom I know are comfortable with and appreciate the behaviors. I found that to be a healthy compromise. In general, in public, I'd be more likely to go outside the envelope for older ladies (60's-up) because experience has proven they more consistently enjoy and appreciate the behaviors. As mentioned, they aren't a means to an end or to gain something, rather behaviors I enjoy, for me, but respecting that I want others to enjoy them as well.

[MoreAmore]

]

 

And here I thought it was the rather harsh punishments on dueling and battles these days