Taramere Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 When holding open doors I do not tend to do a quick scan of the man's morals first - but perhaps I need to bear that mind. Looks like an adulterer - looks like an absent father - looks like a loser -> door slammed in face... Haha. Next time you're contemplating waving a guy out of a side road in front of you at rush hour, stop and think. Take as close a look at the face behind that car window as you can. Do your instincts tell you he probably doesn't pay child support? Think about it. They do, don't they?! Then don't let him out of that side road! I mean seriously...how petty does a person need to be to withhold normal civil behaviour to random people they encounter because they've spent too much time getting fuelled into outrage by men's rights/anti-feminism threads or forums? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 This is my philosophy. I used to think that "I am my brother's keeper", but life experiences have shown me that the real world doesn't work that way, especially if you're a male. Men get shafted in divorce, have their kids taken away, public assistance is more difficult to attain, and men receive harsher sentences than women for equal crimes. Not to mention men are placed in harm's way in combat far more than women are. Men are disposable in Western society. I have no incentive to go out of my way for others when I myself am viewed as disposable by the very society in which I live. It's me vs. the world. Same rules apply to everyone else. Jaded, bitter, cynical? Whatever it is called it is all pretty negative, and hardly an attractive way to think, surely? Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I open building doors for both stranger women and ones I know, car doors for significant others, I try to do the chair pull out thing and all of those. Yes I've had a couple women scowl at me for it, but I'm not going to stop doing what I do. If a woman doesn't appreciate it, then I just tell myself she's a bitch who's clearly having a bad day and I move on with it. My future wife will appreciate it, but in general I don't do it for other people. I do it because my mom would embarrass me if I didn't do all of this. Now I do it so I don't hear her damn voice in my head. You do this because your character is not dependent upon the behavior of others or whether you get something out of it. Your good character is internal. Link to post Share on other sites
Krieger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 And yet you still hold doors open for people despite this. I do open door but do not tell anyone I want to be seen as a A-hole it what woman like. Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I do open door but do not tell anyone I want to be seen as a A-hole it what woman like. Yeah, you keep saying that. But what do you do, hold a door open and then whisper "don't tell anyone" as they pass by? Do you secretly hold doors open in a way no one can detect? The point of all this Krieger is you don't seem to be in agreement w/yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Under The Radar Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I don't call it chivalry ...... to me it's simply kindness, consideration, treating others the way I'd like to be treated ...... and the list goes on. For what it's worth, I live in the northern United States, and have never had a negative reaction to being courteous towards another human being ...... 99% of people will thank me. Holding doors open, helping someone with a heavy object, saying something complimentary ...... I do these things for both women AND men ...... it just makes sense to me. I'm not doing it for gratitude and I'm certainly not doing it to get in anyone's pants It's just the way I'm hardwired ...... and yes ...... I have not made it this far in life unscathed, unwounded, or without heartache ...... sometimes at the expense of being nice. Nevertheless, that really doesn't matter to me. My grandmother used to tell me all the time as a child "You catch more bees with honey". I must have heard that expression once a week, every week during my upbringing. As I get older it makes more and more sense to me. It's a personal decision how we treat others even when we have been burned. So yes, I'll continue to lead with kindness despite what others do ...... and despite being hurt sometimes ...... more often than not I make a friend. Just my 2 cents. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 So majority rule on the thread: 1. This is not chivalry but seemingly common courtesy. 2. Both genders do it. 3. Most people's experience has been a positive one and have received at least a thank you back for a common courtesy. So doesn't seem like the premise of the thread is being supported. Long live common courtesy! Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Woman will never fight for men's right we need to do that . Woman can careless about men's rights IMO. I do not need woman to right for men's right . BTW what I mean by men's rights it more about child custody and what not. women have more rights than children do now days and it is sad. Women have fought for equal childcare responsibulity, which supports men's custody rights. Have you heard of Sheryl Sandburg and "Lean In"? Link to post Share on other sites
Krieger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Yeah, you keep saying that. But what do you do, hold a door open and then whisper "don't tell anyone" as they pass by? Do you secretly hold doors open in a way no one can detect? The point of all this Krieger is you don't seem to be in agreement w/yourself. I want to be seen as more of a jerk it what woman want now days Link to post Share on other sites
William Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Let's get back to the reasons for and against chivalry being dead and continue the meta-discussion about aspects of feminism, and other off-topic banter, in threads on those topics. Also, please use our private message system to set up dates. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
Krieger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Women have fought for equal childcare responsibulity, which supports men's custody rights. Have you heard of Sheryl Sandburg and "Lean In"? I am more of a Karen Straughan fan it said woman give her death threats over her opinion. Like I said most woman can careless about men rights and I am fine with it . Link to post Share on other sites
Krieger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 OK back to topic I do not go out of my way to help people anymore I uses to. Link to post Share on other sites
loveweary11 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Are these actually chicks quoting Monty Python?? Feminist chicks even??!? If so, I have a whole new appreciation for feminists!!! Link to post Share on other sites
dragon_fly_7 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 There was actually a discussion about this on the radio several months ago. A man phoned in and was saying how he always held doors open for women until one day he saw a woman struggling with her shopping so he opened the door and held it for her and she gave him a tirade about how she was perfectly capable etc... He doesn't hold doors open any more. So one rude woman - just one - affected him so badly that he forgot about the thousands before who had been grateful and said thank you... The reality of it is that she was probably having a really bad day and could possibly have had a guy having a go at her for being needy or clingy or demanding etc... Anyone else seeing a really vicious circle here. Shame really. I like it when men open or hold doors for me. Its nice. Its kind. I also like it when women do the same. The reaction to both is the same. A big smile and a thank you. Although I may check out the mans behind as I go by just for kicks. I guess he wasn't truly a gentleman after all and it was just a disguise. A true gentleman with manner continues doing what he feels like and simply ignores rotten people but doesn't forget about the rest. That man looks like the exact definition of the fake ''nice guy''. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 The behavior is still questionable. We don't know if the fathers are paying child support or not. Regardless, single mothers are still the largest group on public assistance, even if child support is being paid. I don't have an issue with public assistance, but I do find the behavior questionable when one says they are independent and yet still take government handouts. I believe there is merit to the argument that it can breed dependence and a class of people who are subsidized by working tax payers. At what point is a society able to say, "Look, you need to stop having kids and get off the government dole"? Don't interpret that as an attack on all women. Take it for what it is: calling out this individual person for their questionable behavior. Women are like any group of people; some winners, and some losers. This woman sounds like a loser. That's not an indictment of all women as an aggregate, merely an indictment of this particular individual. I agree. But that was his excuse against feminism and that is what I was debating. Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Women have fought for equal childcare responsibulity, which supports men's custody rights. Have you heard of Sheryl Sandburg and "Lean In"? While equality is a noble pursuit ... if the world that the likes of Sheryl Sandburg dreams of, would become a reality ... many women would become seriously unhappy. She is so divorced from the everyday tribulations of both men and women that it isn't even funny anymore. Overachiever who was born in the right family with the right friends ... she may be the exception, hardly the rule. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I guess he wasn't truly a gentleman after all and it was just a disguise. A true gentleman with manner continues doing what he feels like and simply ignores rotten people but doesn't forget about the rest. That man looks like the exact definition of the fake ''nice guy''. Or, here's a more likely theory. When you do those things, because it is in your nature to help [not be nice, but help], then they do not register to you anymore. You do not keep a counter in your head, counting the # of times you were nice and weather or not you got enough out of it to be a worthwhile investment. However, a bad outburst like that remains in your mind, and it makes you question if what you did was right in the first place. So you may end up erring on the side of caution ... by not doing it all. It doesn't have to be about revenge, it does not automatically mean that the person had some ulterior motive. Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Are these actually chicks quoting Monty Python?? Feminist chicks even??!? If so, I have a whole new appreciation for feminists!!! I got better... Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Or, here's a more likely theory. When you do those things, because it is in your nature to help [not be nice, but help], then they do not register to you anymore. You do not keep a counter in your head, counting the # of times you were nice and weather or not you got enough out of it to be a worthwhile investment. However, a bad outburst like that remains in your mind, and it makes you question if what you did was right in the first place. So you may end up erring on the side of caution ... by not doing it all. I think it would certainly come as a shock - somebody reacting to a polite gesture in that manner. And sometimes in the initial phase of feeling shocked by quite "out there" behaviour, you can question yourself and your actions....but that's just emotion and irrationality talking really. When we encounter unexpected hostility, it fires off instincts that can sometimes result in an overreaction. The woman who delivered the outburst - well, she might have had a mental health condition that resulted in her behaving in irrational and antisocial ways. Or maybe her own instincts and feelings of being threatened were going haywire on that particular day. But whether her state of mind that day was a permanent or temporary thing, I think most normal people would agree that yelling at somebody who is politely holding a door open for you is not the behaviour of a reasonable and rational person. I can understand people venting a bit afterwards. "That's the last time I hold a door open for anyone. Jesus!" Probaby a lot of us would react in that way. Then we'd calm down, we'd get it into proportion and recognise the behaviour for the unusual and unpleasant anomaly it was. A person would have to be living in a pretty strange environment to be encountering that sort of thing on any regular basis. I do remember one time I was on a bus. An elderly man got on and as I was sitting up at the front I got up immediately so that he could take a seat. He looked around the bus with an outraged expression and shouted at me "I should think so too. I'm (83, 93 - whatever age it was, can't remember now)." There was no thank you going to be coming my way from that old codger. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he was secretly disappointed to be offered a seat so quickly. Or maybe he was just hoping that the rest of the bus would shout in unison "really? You don't look a day over 50! What's your secret?" Anyway, if angry or odd outbursts like that happens when other people are around, it's more entertaining than annoying. Other people on the bus cast sympathetic glances or smiled at me, one man offered his seat (but I was getting off the bus soon anyway) and generally the reactions of the other passengers turned the whole thing into an entertaining little snippet of the day rather than anything that was going to bug me. You always hear these anecdotes about women yelling abuse because they've had doors opened for them. I don't think I've ever heard any woman support the notion of berating a man for making a polite gesture like that. Neither do I recall reading a woman bitching about men opening doors on here - and I've certainly never witnessed a woman bitch at a man for holding a door open for her. So I can't really buy the notion that women berating men for holding doors open for them is a commonplace thing. Edited June 24, 2015 by Taramere 3 Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 You always hear these anecdotes about women yelling abuse because they've had doors opened for them. I don't think I've ever, in my entire time on this board, heard any woman support the notion of berating a man for making a polite gesture like that. Neither do I recall reading it on here - and I've certainly never heard a woman bitch about having a door held open for her. So I can't really buy the notion that women berating men for holding doors open for them is a commonplace thing. I don't think it is. In 40-something years of holding doors and offering seats, I have yet to see it. I may well not be profusely thanked, but I've never been berated, either. And even if I was, I can't see stopping. Engaging with the outraged person might even be fun. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
StanMusial Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Jen and Autumn, make a good point. Chivalry, has had many different meaning. In the beginning, it was a code of conduct, put in by the church, to stop knights from killing the peasants. Worked for the most part. It then encompassed, how to act during "war". It became the Geneva convention of its time. The "idea" was changed and later embraced, during Victorian times, as part of how a "gentleman" should act. So chivalry has meant many different things at different times. Myself, being courteous, and kind, is just who I am. I hold open doors for anyone who may needed, and I stop and help those in need. I have good manners, as it is how I am. Being rude is not manly. Not that I am a wimp, if I need to fight, verbally, physically or mentally, I go all in. I do not kick someone when they are down. I have my own code, and I stick to it. I treat my wife, as my lover and a person of value, because I love her unconditionally. Why would I be rude to her? I expect the same from her. In today's society, we are thought to be rude and be in it for yourself only. Manners to many, are not valued. We then wonder why the date, mate, boy, girl, so fourth, does not bring more to a relationship. Chivalry, is not working for women, as they do not know what it is, and also that it is a two ways street. Both sides have obligations, and the first is to think more about the other, then just your self. Ladies, you can change this. If you stop rewarding the bad boys, if you insist on good manners and being treated with respect. Know what they are, so you have a standard. The Boy Scouts are looked down on and treated with disrespect by many. Ladies, if your man, guy, BF tried and lived up to the Scout law, do you think you relationships would be better or worse? If not the scout law, then some other code to measure yourself or them by. What is yours? What is your man's? In many ways it is the training we give our young men and women, that is lacking. Scout Law. A Scout is: trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. BTW, I know women that have adopted the scout law as well. It is not a bad place to start. On my honor, I will do my best, to do my duty, to God and my country, to help all people at all times, and to obey the Scout law... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I got better... Bring out yer dead! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts