Winterina Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 I realise I wrote a novel in my previous post so I will make it short here. Friend 1 is incapable of feeling happy for anyone else but fakes his happieness and plays a positive guy while behind his friends back he throws the most amazing theories, puts worst spins on everything, and he has his nose in everyone's private life. He is a gossiper. He recently lied about me and my bf to our friends trying to make me look bad. My bf got mad at him, send him a text and we cut all contact with him. Problem is that we hang in the same company and while I do not care about every seeing anyone again, I really do care about my good friend, lets call him Friend 2. I told him after a while that I don't want to be in the same place where Friend 1 is and I told him why. Friend 2 said nothing. He just continued being friend with both of us separately. And while I have nothing against that, it really bugs me that Friend 2 did not even bother talking to Friend 1 to tell him that he does not approve of him spreading lies about me that are obviously designed to hurt me. When Friend 1 was telling thrash about Friend 2 I stood up for him, I defended him and said it is not a nice thing to say... so at least the gossiping ahole knew where I stand on that issue. That was a while ago. Friend 2 does not know that Friend 1 is talking all the crap about his recent wedding, new wife, but goes to their place and plays a great friend. I really cannot stand his dishonest personality. Should I be hurt (as I am) by the fact that Friend 2 is not saying a word to that duchebag to protect me? What should one expect from a friend 2 in this situation? There are situations in life where you should take sides or you will disappoint people. I am expecting him to stop the contact with Friend 1 just to tell him something on my behalf to protect me so that he knows that what he did was wrong.
Fugu Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 If it were me, I would probably just tell Friend 2 that I don't like Friend 1. I don't like how he treats me, and I don't like how he treats you. In fact, I don't like how he treats anyone. Tell him the truth that you know. Nothing more, nothing less. You don't need to campaign against Friend 1, which would be a mistake, IMO. You just need to keep it short, to the point. If Friend 2 still wants to keep company of Friend 1 after knowing what you've told him, then that's his choice. Something we're taught early in life is that friends are irreplaceable, and that's true. But as I've gotten older, I realize, friends are replaceable, too. They're irreplaceable...yet replaceable. 1
amaysngrace Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 You can't expect your friends to hate someone just because you do. To ask that of them makes you not a very good friend because pressuring people to choose sides is wrong. 3
d0nnivain Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 the best you can get from Friend 2 is what you are getting -- neutrality. He is under no obligation to pick sides. The fact that you want him to pick you is a problem. When mutual friends fight there is nothing a 3rd party can do. All you can do is tell friend 2 why you don't want to be in friend 1's presence. If friend 1 is really talking trash about 2 I suppose you could make sure friend 2 & his new wife know this but still they get to make their own decisions. 3
Author Winterina Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 What I said was "I am expecting him to stop the contact with Friend 1 just to tell him something on my behalf to protect me so that he knows that what he did was wrong." Choosing sides in my case would mean just telling Friend 1 that he does not appreciate what he did, that is all. Just like I did to protect Friend 2 from the character attacks of the same Friend 1. I am wondering if I need a friend who has no opinions and no backbone. There is a quote for this situation "...in the end we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends." Yes, there is a certain degree of loyalty that I expect.
Author Winterina Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 the best you can get from Friend 2 is what you are getting -- neutrality. He is under no obligation to pick sides. The fact that you want him to pick you is a problem. When mutual friends fight there is nothing a 3rd party can do. All you can do is tell friend 2 why you don't want to be in friend 1's presence. If friend 1 is really talking trash about 2 I suppose you could make sure friend 2 & his new wife know this but still they get to make their own decisions. I know he is not under obligation, I was just hoping for a bit of loyalty. I did not have any fight with Friend 1. I just got sick listening him talk thrash about people while playing positive character in front of them. Finally, he tried to hurt me and my reputation by spreading lies. I think this is when your friends will stand up for you. If they don't, I doubt they ever were friends to begin with... there is a huge difference between a friend and a people you hang with. I really cannot tell to my friend and his wife about thrash that he talks about them. Because Friend 1 says things like that their wedding was entirely her idea, Friend 2 was practically forced into it and Friend 1 knows it because he was having a talk with Friend 2 a week before Friend 2 proposed to his wife and there is not a chance that he was ever going to propose to that woman. Wife is now pregnant and the last thing she needs is to hear that her husband was talking like that about their relationship just before he proposed... she might have gotten pregnant first according to Friend 1 who always has the worst possible spin on the events. So what I did now for the past two month is just withdraw from everything... 1
Satu Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 You can set your own boundaries, but not somebody else's. I understand why you want what you want, but you don't have a *right* to it. We have to respect other people's right to make their own choices, even when we don't like what they choose. 2
Author Winterina Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 You can set your own boundaries, but not somebody else's. I understand why you want what you want, but you don't have a *right* to it. We have to respect other people's right to make their own choices, even when we don't like what they choose. All of those are abstract sayings with which I in principle agree. But how would you like to be bullied, this is something equivalent to it, and your friends to just sit around and idly observe while someone is hurting you? And then when everything is over they are good friends with the bully. Would you even consider them friends any more? 1
SycamoreCircle Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 You have every right to feel hurt the same way your friend has every right not to feel passionate about the matter. Focus on controlling your feelings, not others. 1
Satu Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Nothing I said is abstract. It's the way the world works. If you try to make other people do what you want, instead of what they want, you are buying into a world of aggravation. I think you're already there. Edited June 23, 2015 by Satu
Author Winterina Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 You have every right to feel hurt the same way your friend has every right not to feel passionate about the matter. Focus on controlling your feelings, not others. I know it is not his obligation and that he has right to not do or feel anything. For me it is a clear case of right and wrong, so we are fundamentally different. I take my stand against what is wrong. No sides need to be taken, just to take a stand is all I was hoping for. Best for me is to just cut the contact with him too, if these things are tolerated, then it is simply not my kind of a person. I have no interest or intention in controlling my feelings about this. I am disappointed, and it is no basis to continue the friendship. 1
Fugu Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 You can't expect your friends to hate someone just because you do. To ask that of them makes you not a very good friend because pressuring people to choose sides is wrong. I don't know...there are both people are complete douchebags, and there are also people who oblivious to the fact that people are being douchebags. My approach is similar to yours - if I have a mutual friend that I dislike, I don't wage campaigns or anything like that. I let people reveal themselves over time, and usually it works. But one component of friendship for me is loyalty. If other friends of mine are okay with someone walking all over me and taking a neutral stance, I reconsider those friendships as well. I definitely would not see them as reliable or close friends. Maybe someone I might talk to if I run into them or hang out with as part of a group, but I'm not going to invest my time in friendships with people who can't stand up for me when they know someone else is wrong. Something else I've learned over the years: I am my own best friend. I would rather be alone than to be with people who are unreliable and untrustworthy. 3
Satu Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Best for me is to just cut the contact with him too, if these things are tolerated, then it is simply not my kind of a person. I have no interest or intention in controlling my feelings about this. I am disappointed, and it is no basis to continue the friendship. Will you then view friend 2 as being evil like ex-friend1?
Author Winterina Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 Nothing I said is abstract. It's the way the world works. If you try to make other people do what you want, instead of what they want, you are buying into a world of aggravation. I think you're already there. It is all abstract, general sayings. Those can apply and they don't have to, depends on the situation. I am more of a practical person. For example, NO, I absolutely do not need to respect everyone's choices even if I don't like them. I definitely will not respect choices of anyone who hurts others and is evil. I will tell them what I think about their actions and will try to protect those being hurt in some way. Dante said - the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who stay neutral in the face of injustice. Sometimes, standing still and lack of action is a sing of bad character. Indifference is often not a good trait. Here is more abstract quotes... all that is necessary for the evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. I know this is not on that level but you get the idea. I am not talking about legal rights here, but something different.
Author Winterina Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 Will you then view friend 2 as being evil like ex-friend1? No, Friend 2 does not do anything evil to people. We had some really good times together and we did a lot of things for each other over the years. But he does not understand human emotions too much. He is the kind of guy that will not understand how can someone be depressed and in bed for days and why don't they just go out and enjoy the day. So I don't think he would understand my feelings here. His answer to everything his wife tells him is that it is all in her head. I don't take it personally, he is just the way he is. Will talk to him at some point again probably, but right now, I have nothing to say... no point in talking to someone who would not get it.
Author Winterina Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 Thanks everyone for your opinions. I do think many friendships have expiration date on them. People come and go.
amaysngrace Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I don't know...there are both people are complete douchebags, and there are also people who oblivious to the fact that people are being douchebags. My approach is similar to yours - if I have a mutual friend that I dislike, I don't wage campaigns or anything like that. I let people reveal themselves over time, and usually it works. But one component of friendship for me is loyalty. If other friends of mine are okay with someone walking all over me and taking a neutral stance, I reconsider those friendships as well. I definitely would not see them as reliable or close friends. Maybe someone I might talk to if I run into them or hang out with as part of a group, but I'm not going to invest my time in friendships with people who can't stand up for me when they know someone else is wrong. Something else I've learned over the years: I am my own best friend. I would rather be alone than to be with people who are unreliable and untrustworthy. I agree with most of what you said but I truly let people reveal themselves with time. I don't understand how you say you do the same but will tell your second friend how the first one made you feel like you had initially advised. That's trying to make their mind up for them when you talk crap on the first friend IMO. I can't be bothered doing that.
whichwayisup Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Friend 2 doesn't want to get involved at all. He/she has the right to stay away from the drama and not get put in the middle.
SpiralOut Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 It says something about friend 2 that he would choose to be friends with someone who talks behind people's backs. Maybe he believes that friend 1 does not do it to him. It doesn't say anything about your friendship with friend 2. For whatever reason, he doesn't place as much value as you do on honesty - two-faced people don't bother him. His values are different from yours.
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